OT: Cycling

[mcpat]

Enough cycling fans on here for a thread about #SeppKuss? Couldn’t find a good place for such a thread.

Simply incredible. And let’s not ignore that even putting the stage 6 breakaway win aside, he still put over a minute on every other team’s GC.

I’m not sure he can’t beat Roglic straight up with equal support and rest. (Jonas is a different animal.)

A GT win couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy.

 

[backdrft76]

Yeah, I think we've warranted an OT Cycling thread here for sure. I'm already jonesing for next year's Tours. I can only imagine the party Sepp had last night and will have back in his hometown. To win after riding in his 3rd Tour of the year is so impressive, and it couldn't have happened to a more likeable person.

 

[The Dueceman]

Enough cycling fans on here for a thread about #SeppKuss? Couldn’t find a good place for such a thread.

Simply incredible. And let’s not ignore that even putting the stage 6 breakaway win aside, he still put over a minute on every other team’s GC.

I’m not sure he can’t beat Roglic straight up with equal support and rest. (Jonas is a different animal.)

A GT win couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy.

 

[mcpat]

Ever watch a 1-0 wrestling match?

 

[86PSUPaul]

 

[PSUbluTX]

To win after riding in his 3rd Tour of the year is so impressive

Great point, and one whose magnitude the casual cycling fan won’t likely appreciate. And to clarify, these were three GRAND tours, meaning 21-day stage races. It is rare for pro cyclists to even attempt to ride the 3 grand tours back to back in a 5 month period. Sepp not only ride them, he was instrumental in Roglic winning the Giro, Jonas winning the Tour de France, and then himself winning the Vuelta of course. And keep in mind that he had that bad crash the last week of the Tour. Most mortals couldn’t even have shown up to the Vuelta after all that.

 

[mcpat]

Great point, and one whose magnitude the casual cycling fan won’t likely appreciate. And to clarify, these were three GRAND tours, meaning 21-day stage races. It is rare for pro cyclists to even attempt to ride the 3 grand tours back to back in a 5 month period. Sepp not only ride them, he was instrumental in Roglic winning the Giro, Jonas winning the Tour de France, and then himself winning the Vuelta of course. And keep in mind that he had that bad crash the last week of the Tour. Most mortals couldn’t even have shown up to the Vuelta after all that.

He was on his way to a top 10 finish at the TDF when Rodriguez crashed right in front of him. Nothing he could do. Top 10 as a domestique (not a co-leader) is unheard of.

 

[backdrft76]

 

[creamery freak]

I heard his bike didn't make weight.

 

[WexfordWarrior]

Enough cycling fans on here for a thread about #SeppKuss? Couldn’t find a good place for such a thread.

Simply incredible. And let’s not ignore that even putting the stage 6 breakaway win aside, he still put over a minute on every other team’s GC.

I’m not sure he can’t beat Roglic straight up with equal support and rest. (Jonas is a different animal.)

A GT win couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy.

I guess you didn't look very hard. Now take your white claw over there and quit polluting our forum.

Cyclingnews Forum

Cyclingnews Forum

forum.cyclingnews.com

 

[Random4598375]

Great ride by Sepp. He went there to support Roglic and Vingegaard, the Giro and Tour champs, trying to do a double. The team let them try to win the race one more time on the Angrilu (which is possibly the steepest and hardest climb used in road racing...), even with their domestique in the leader's jersey, and Sepp held them off by 8 seconds for the overall lead and forced the team to treat him as the leader. Amazing to see the same team finish 1-2-3.

 

[AndEEss]

So, on various cycling forums that I frequent, some Euro-centric commentators are lamenting Sepp being "gifted" the Vuelta, while ignoring the many times that he has literally *gifted* his efforts to his teammates, or the fact that he *let* Vingegaard go clear on the Tourmalet before very, very quickly hauling him back in. The gap was 1'10" at one point, and then Kuss closed it to ~30s after a <2km chase.

 

[WexfordWarrior]

So, on various cycling forums that I frequent, some Euro-centric commentators are lamenting Sepp being "gifted" the Vuelta, while ignoring the many times that he has literally *gifted* his efforts to his teammates, or the fact that he *let* Vingegaard go clear on the Tourmalet before very, very quickly hauling him back in. The gap was 1'10" at one point, and then Kuss closed it to ~30s after a <2km chase.

Could you pass them on to @mcpat. It appears he is unable to find a place to post outside of a wrestling forum.

 

[backdrft76]

So, on various cycling forums that I frequent, some Euro-centric commentators are lamenting Sepp being "gifted" the Vuelta, while ignoring the many times that he has literally *gifted* his efforts to his teammates, or the fact that he *let* Vingegaard go clear on the Tourmalet before very, very quickly hauling him back in. The gap was 1'10" at one point, and then Kuss closed it to ~30s after a <2km chase.

I think Vingegaard realized that he'd better be a teammate to Kuss and give him the support that Kuss gave him and that Kuss deserves. Sure, I think Vingegaard could've won this Vuelta. But after the social media backlash JV got after Stage 17, he told Roglic they better reign it in. Primoz was very outspoken about his feelings. But in the end, it worked out better for JV, Jonas, Primoz, the fans, the sport and obviously Sepp. I'm sure Sepp will continue to be in a support role as long as he is on JV.

 

[7brwnpsu]

So you see Sepp moving on to a new team?

 

[PSUbluTX]

So you see Sepp moving on to a new team?

I think it’s more likely that Roglic leaves JV. Though I think he’s got ~2 yrs left on his contract and it seems unlikely that JV would let him out early.

I’m sure he wasn’t happy that they sent Jonas to the Vuelta as co-leader. But then to allow a “mere” domestique like Sepp also vie for the GC! He may feel like JV pushed him under the bus and is going all in on its younger stars.

 

[AndEEss]

I think it’s more likely that Roglic leaves JV. Though I think he’s got ~2 yrs left on his contract and it seems unlikely that JV would let him out early.

I’m sure he wasn’t happy that they sent Jonas to the Vuelta as co-leader. But then to allow a “mere” domestique like Sepp also vie for the GC! He may feel like JV pushed him under the bus and is going all in on its younger stars.

On one of the podcasts I listen to, a retired female pro whose husband is on Lidl-Trek (Abby Mickey) said, "Lidl-Trek" when they were speculating where Roglic might go, if anywhere. Lidl came in and purportedly doubled the team's budget. They've snatched up a whole bunch of good climbers on the transfer market this year, and Roglic would be the candle on that particular cupcake.

Roglic vs Vingegaard + Kuss (and all the other J-V domestiques) is a losing battle. Kuss is the best in the world at his particular job and WvA is Superman on just about every terrain.

So, Roglic has to weigh winning a Giro and/or Vuelta each year vs taking 2nd or 3rd at the Tour. I don't think there's any scenario in which he beats both Vingegaard AND Pogacar, ever, unless they both get sick or crash out.

 

[baccafarmer]

Enough cycling fans on here for a thread about #SeppKuss? Couldn’t find a good place for such a thread.

Simply incredible. And let’s not ignore that even putting the stage 6 breakaway win aside, he still put over a minute on every other team’s GC.

I’m not sure he can’t beat Roglic straight up with equal support and rest. (Jonas is a different animal.)

A GT win couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy.

Agree! Sep deserved a grand tour victory. Wrestling and pro cycling >> both gut check sports that take participants to dark places. I’ve attended two tours, but, it’s a lot of difficult travel and most days you see less than a minute of live action. Best reason to go to the tour is to enjoy the scenery and drink beer and wine at the shmengefests.

 

[CSauertiegPSU]

On one of the podcasts I listen to, a retired female pro whose husband is on Lidl-Trek (Abby Mickey) said, "Lidl-Trek" when they were speculating where Roglic might go, if anywhere. Lidl came in and purportedly doubled the team's budget. They've snatched up a whole bunch of good climbers on the transfer market this year, and Roglic would be the candle on that particular cupcake.

Roglic vs Vingegaard + Kuss (and all the other J-V domestiques) is a losing battle. Kuss is the best in the world at his particular job and WvA is Superman on just about every terrain.

Have also heard Lidl-Trek rumored. They made some great signings already.

 

[WildTurk]

I own 2 bikes still

A 1997 CR 500 and a 2003 CR 450r
I don't do enough leg days anymore for bicycles. I do wear a helmet most of the time now however

 

[mcpat]

Could you pass them on to @mcpat. It appears he is unable to find a place to post outside of a wrestling forum.

For someone that doesn’t like this thread, you sure spend a lot of time in it! Like right now as you read this.

 

[mcpat]

Great ride by Sepp. He went there to support Roglic and Vingegaard, the Giro and Tour champs, trying to do a double. The team let them try to win the race one more time on the Angrilu (which is possibly the steepest and hardest climb used in road racing...), even with their domestique in the leader's jersey, and Sepp held them off by 8 seconds for the overall lead and forced the team to treat him as the leader. Amazing to see the same team finish 1-2-3.

The amazing thing to me was that Roglic only got 19 secs on him on that stage - the toughest stage raced all year.

Sepp was in the 3rd week of his third grand tour of the year, just five weeks after riding incredibly well in the TDF and suffering a major crash, for which he was still bandaged, on the next to last stage in it. Gosh, he would have been top 10 as a domestique at the TDF, soft-pedaling the TT, sprint stages and end of mountain stages (when his work was done) if not for that crash. Unheard of.

Roglic, meanwhile, was in only his second grand tour of the year, having not ridden the TDF and instead trained specifically for the Vuelta. The fact that he could only put 19 secs on Sepp under those circumstances tells me that Roglic wasn’t going to get all the time he needed to catch Sepp if they had kept attacking each other the rest of the way.

And let’s not forget that Sepp rode the first five stages as an unprotected domestique.

Head to head with equal support and rest, Roglic besting Sepp in GT isn’t a forgone conclusion, IMO.

Jonas, on the other hand… But it’s hardly unheard of for the GC guy in a team to return the favor and ride support for his super-domestiques in other races.

 

[mcpat]

On one of the podcasts I listen to, a retired female pro whose husband is on Lidl-Trek (Abby Mickey) said, "Lidl-Trek" when they were speculating where Roglic might go, if anywhere. Lidl came in and purportedly doubled the team's budget. They've snatched up a whole bunch of good climbers on the transfer market this year, and Roglic would be the candle on that particular cupcake.

Roglic vs Vingegaard + Kuss (and all the other J-V domestiques) is a losing battle. Kuss is the best in the world at his particular job and WvA is Superman on just about every terrain.

So, Roglic has to weigh winning a Giro and/or Vuelta each year vs taking 2nd or 3rd at the Tour. I don't think there's any scenario in which he beats both Vingegaard AND Pogacar, ever, unless they both get sick or crash out.

Agreed but the TDF is all that is missing from his resume and he has repeatedly said he wants it. He’s never going to be option #1 for TJV with Vingegaard. I think he leaves to lead a TDF attempt with another squad. I think he even takes less $$$ to do it.

I think Sepp sticks with TJV, continues riding as a super-domestique for Jonas at the TDF and is given GC at the Vuelta to defend it. He’s said it’s his favorite GT and the Spanish fans have adopted him as their own.

Does Jonas try a Giro-TDF double? Prob not next year; not with Tadej to compete against and not with Roglic switching teams. Too much to lose if not recovered well enough.

 

[PSUPTB86]

I live in Colorado and was racing until 2 years ago (58) since a horrible accident in a race and being diagnosed with a heart anomaly. Sepp is a legend in a state filled with legends at every level. Unfortunately, road racing is dying, and more are moving to gravel and mountain. I know I do not like to be on a road with cars after my accident. If it were not for failed media coverage since the Armstrong and doping era Sepp would be a household name.

 

[Cowbell Man]

I think it’s more likely that Roglic leaves JV. Though I think he’s got ~2 yrs left on his contract and it seems unlikely that JV would let him out early.

I’m sure he wasn’t happy that they sent Jonas to the Vuelta as co-leader. But then to allow a “mere” domestique like Sepp also vie for the GC! He may feel like JV pushed him under the bus and is going all in on its younger stars.

Seems to me he would need another team to make the promotion but damn he’s good. In doing so, he would still need a team built around to really contend for GC and there aren’t many, let alone have an opening.

 

[El-Jefe]

So, on various cycling forums that I frequent, some Euro-centric commentators are lamenting Sepp being "gifted" the Vuelta, while ignoring the many times that he has literally *gifted* his efforts to his teammates, or the fact that he *let* Vingegaard go clear on the Tourmalet before very, very quickly hauling him back in. The gap was 1'10" at one point, and then Kuss closed it to ~30s after a <2km chase.

GIA?

 

[CropDuster507]

Literally the only worse form of riding time.

 

[AndEEss]

I live in Colorado and was racing until 2 years ago (58) since a horrible accident in a race and being diagnosed with a heart anomaly. Sepp is a legend in a state filled with legends at every level. Unfortunately, road racing is dying, and more are moving to gravel and mountain. I know I do not like to be on a road with cars after my accident. If it were not for failed media coverage since the Armstrong and doping era Sepp would be a household name.

Can confirm. Live in CO, too. I raced on the road for a long time and, unfortunately, it's dying. Seeing more and more gravel bikes and the hills are teeming with MTBs. Have to get pretty far afield to not see anyone these days.

 

[baccafarmer]

So, on various cycling forums that I frequent, some Euro-centric commentators are lamenting Sepp being "gifted" the Vuelta, while ignoring the many times that he has literally *gifted* his efforts to his teammates, or the fact that he *let* Vingegaard go clear on the Tourmalet before very, very quickly hauling him back in. The gap was 1'10" at one point, and then Kuss closed it to ~30s after a <2km chase.

Question for AndEEss: I waste so much gD time on this forum …. I guess I might as well do the same for pro cycling. What forum do you consider the best for pro cycling?

 

[AndEEss]

Question for AndEEss: I waste so much gD time on this forum …. I guess I might as well do the same for pro cycling. What forum do you consider the best for pro cycling?

Lots of Euros over here with different, highly informed perspectives. Mods do a good job of keeping it on topic, too.

2023 Pro thread - Page 227 - Weight Weenies

weightweenies.starbike.com

 

[backdrft76]

After all the drama, it sounds like Primož Roglič is leaving JV. Not sure what other team is good enough to help him win a TDF (maybe Ineos?), but it sure will be nice watching him, Tadej and Jonas, maybe even Remco, battle it out next season.

 

[psumacw]

looks like cavendish is coming back next year to try and take sole possession of the tdf stage wins record

 

[AndEEss]

After all the drama, it sounds like Primož Roglič is leaving JV. Not sure what other team is good enough to help him win a TDF (maybe Ineos?), but it sure will be nice watching him, Tadej and Jonas, maybe even Remco, battle it out next season.

There is no *team* that is good enough to help him win a Tour.

Why? Tadej and Jonas still exist, and they both race for teams as good or better than anything he could transfer to, at this point. Ineos? Nope. Don't have the domestiques they used to. Movistar, as rumored? His TT will suffer.

 

[mcpat]

A TDF with a GC battle between Tadej, Jonas, Primoz and Remco all on different teams would (will?) be epic. My money is still on Jonas based on strength of team, with a healthy and trained Tadej making it very interesting. I like Primoz a lot but you never know if he’s going to get thru unscathed. Never seen a protected rider crash so much. Remco is must see TV but not yet a threat in a grand tour to Tadej and Jonas. I just hope there is no merger involving TJV.

 

[PSUbluTX]

For me personally, I didn’t know what to make of Jonas before. He was so quiet. But after watching the Vuelta, the interactions caught on camera between riders and family, and as a big fan of Sepp, Jonas is now my 2nd favorite cyclist.

Yeah, there's a lot to like about Jonas. He's a bit hard to read at times, and I get the sense that he puts his own interests above his team sometimes. But then he'll have flashes of amazing teamsmanship, such as when he gifted Wout van Aert the individual TT win in stage 20 of the 2022 TDF, or when he threw his support behind Sepp in this year's Vuelta (after attacking him on some earlier stages tho!).

I far prefer Tadej's joyful, exuberant brand of cycling to Jonas's cautious, defensive approach. You might say it's a bit like the difference between PSU and Iowa wrestling. Tadej is always looking to light up the score board, whereas Jonas tries to keep it close and hope to have one winning move in the end.

The thing that makes Tadej so fun to watch is probably what will keep him from ever beating Jonas in the TDF again given how team tactics work. I believe Tadej is probably the more naturally gifted rider, but his passion for racing and irresistible urge to let it rip can come back to haunt him. He got away with that until Jonas showed up because no one else was at the same level. I suspect that if Tadej had the self-discipline to flip the script and just ride Jonas's wheel for the whole Tour and then beat him in the sprints to the line he'd prevail. But he'd undoubtedly consider that strategy too boring to execute.

 

[GogglesPaizano]

It took a while but I think I finally found a loose connection between cycling and wrestling.

 

[AndEEss]

Primoz is out:

Primoz Roglic confirms departure from Jumbo-Visma

'I can just definitely confirm that I will leave the team' Slovenian says ahead of Giro dell'Emilia

www.cyclingnews.com

 

[mcpat]

Saw a lot of folks talking about how it looked like Yates had better legs today but the team raced for Pogacar. Ironic after all the gift talk at the Vuelta.

 

[Random4598375]

Yeah, there's a lot to like about Jonas. He's a bit hard to read at times, and I get the sense that he puts his own interests above his team sometimes. But then he'll have flashes of amazing teamsmanship, such as when he gifted Wout van Aert the individual TT win in stage 20 of the 2022 TDF, or when he threw his support behind Sepp in this year's Vuelta (after attacking him on some earlier stages tho!).

I far prefer Tadej's joyful, exuberant brand of cycling to Jonas's cautious, defensive approach. You might say it's a bit like the difference between PSU and Iowa wrestling. Tadej is always looking to light up the score board, whereas Jonas tries to keep it close and hope to have one winning move in the end.

The thing that makes Tadej so fun to watch is probably what will keep him from ever beating Jonas in the TDF again given how team tactics work. I believe Tadej is probably the more naturally gifted rider, but his passion for racing and irresistible urge to let it rip can come back to haunt him. He got away with that until Jonas showed up because no one else was at the same level. I suspect that if Tadej had the self-discipline to flip the script and just ride Jonas's wheel for the whole Tour and then beat him in the sprints to the line he'd prevail. But he'd undoubtedly consider that strategy too boring to execute.

100% agreed. Tadej is the most fun to watch because there is no stage where it's not appropriate to him to attack and try to win. Of course, we've seen plenty of evidence where that is a suboptimal strategy to win a grand tour where conservation of energy is a primary concern.

 

[backdrft76]

Primoz to Bora. That should make TDF 2024 even that much more fun. Now if Remco could just get picked up by Ineos...