OT: "Old Guy" stories

[AgSurfer]

(Mod - Redirected posts from Ferrari thread.)

I don't think he knows what 90 degrees means.

Not sure what, if anything, he’s attempting to prove, but consider this. When I was a HS Jr, I was somewhere between 115 to 120 lbs after the season was over. I put 600 lbs on a bar on the squat rack and got under it with my knees about 45 degrees. I lifted the weight and was standing straight with it on my shoulders. A friend took a picture so I could show it to another friend who wasn’t there.

That’s not BS. Unfortunately, I lost the photo a long time ago or I would post it. However, my real point here is that I never considered myself to be a powerhouse at my weight. There were other guys who were stronger than me. I think I managed to do that 1/4 squat mainly because I believed that I could do it. AJ is almost double what I weighed back then and more physically mature. So I don’t think his squat achievements are really all that impressive.

And BTW, I’m 74 now and yes, I do have some issues with my lower back.

 

[Pitchfork Rebel]

Not sure what, if anything, he’s attempting to prove, but consider this. When I was a HS Jr, I was somewhere between 115 to 120 lbs after the season was over. I put 600 lbs on a bar on the squat rack and got under it with my knees about 45 degrees. I lifted the weight and was standing straight with it on my shoulders. A friend took a picture so I could show it to another friend who wasn’t there.

That’s not BS. Unfortunately, I lost the photo a long time ago or I would post it. However, my real point here is that I never considered myself to be a powerhouse at my weight. There were other guys who were stronger than me. I think I managed to do that 1/4 squat mainly because I believed that I could do it. AJ is almost double what I weighed back then and more physically mature. So I don’t think his squat achievements are really all that impressive.

And BTW, I’m 74 now and yes, I do have some issues with my lower back.

As a freshman at PSU Hazleton, I was introduced to squats by a ex-Marine classmate. In short order he had me going from the bar, 135, 225, and finally 6 45's..but my core didn't keep up. One day, I started bending over, and my would be coach yelled "throw it", but it was too late and I have permanent damage (dr, says scar tissue not herniated disc).

By my late 20's, I assumed that it was "healed" and finally having a job that had stable hours, I was squatting again, and blew past 315. I must be healed right? Then 405. 425,455. 475.. and it locked up. I went to the doctor, got a scrip Norflex and 800 mg Ibuprofen, and a week later back at it. Two more times I went to see the doc and he finally said "hey, you know the difference between destructive and non-destructive testing?". When I said "yeah, I was an engineering major" he said "good, guess which one you are doing".

Ironically, one of the occasional spasms would in mid December 2019 drive me to the ER, where I was told "good thing you decided to come in yesterday, otherwise you'd have been dead by Christmas".

Now AJ apparently doesn't have any any apparent muscular-skeletal damage yet, but there's no reason to load this much weight. In terms of becoming conditioned for wrestling, I'd do goblet squats. More activation of the core, works forearms and shoulders, no risk of..

 

[Nashville_Hawkeye]

Not sure what, if anything, he’s attempting to prove, but consider this. When I was a HS Jr, I was somewhere between 115 to 120 lbs after the season was over. I put 600 lbs on a bar on the squat rack and got under it with my knees about 45 degrees. I lifted the weight and was standing straight with it on my shoulders. A friend took a picture so I could show it to another friend who wasn’t there.

That’s not BS. Unfortunately, I lost the photo a long time ago or I would post it. However, my real point here is that I never considered myself to be a powerhouse at my weight. There were other guys who were stronger than me. I think I managed to do that 1/4 squat mainly because I believed that I could do it. AJ is almost double what I weighed back then and more physically mature. So I don’t think his squat achievements are really all that impressive.

And BTW, I’m 74 now and yes, I do have some issues with my lower back.

My friend, like me I'm thinking the years might be shaking up your memory a bit. I'm 60, spent 24 years in the Army, a perpetual gym rat and power lifter, with problems with my back, knees and hips, but still make it to Gold's Gym here in Nashville at least 5 times a week. And I see some pretty solid, often times roided men put up some pretty big weight. That said, none of the smaller guys (full grown 120ish-pound adults) are touching the weight you're talking about. They’re not holding it, not moving it, not even looking at it or thinking about looking at it. In fact, currently the world record for a 62kg (136.4-pound man) for the squat is 247kg (543.4 pounds). Link provided below. That said, you say you weren't considered a powerhouse as a HS junior weighing 115-120 pounds, 55 plus years ago when humans with very few exceptions were considerably weaker than they are today, yet you had 50 pounds more on the bar than the world record weight for the current strongest 136-pound man in the world and did a 45-degree squat. I'm thinking that's not possible. And if you research high school records for a 120-pound kid it's nowhere near that 600 number (off by a couple hundred plus). And I know you were doing 45 degrees vice full but that's still a huge margin. I'm not implying that you weren't a badass, and by all counts it seems that you were quite a powerhouse as a 120-pound junior, but I think the weight might be a bit off.

Men’s World Records

worldpowerlifting.com

As for Ferrari, I'd love to think there's something that can be done to bring him into the fold and make him a Hawk, but I don't see that dog huntin. I think he's got a few too many screws loose for even the greatest zen masters in college wrestling to fix. But I guess we'll see. I just hope we don't lose the other two, especially the younger one coming in.

 

[AgSurfer]

My friend, like me I'm thinking the years might be shaking up your memory a bit. I'm 60, spent 24 years in the Army, a perpetual gym rat and power lifter, with problems with my back, knees and hips, but still make it to Gold's Gym here in Nashville at least 5 times a week. And I see some pretty solid, often times roided men put up some pretty big weight. That said, none of the smaller guys (full grown 120ish-pound adults) are touching the weight you're talking about. They’re not holding it, not moving it, not even looking at it or thinking about looking at it. In fact, currently the world record for a 62kg (136.4-pound man) for the squat is 247kg (543.4 pounds). Link provided below. That said, you say you weren't considered a powerhouse as a HS junior weighing 115-120 pounds, 55 plus years ago when humans with very few exceptions were considerably weaker than they are today, yet you had 50 pounds more on the bar than the world record weight for the current strongest 136-pound man in the world and did a 45-degree squat. I'm thinking that's not possible. And if you research high school records for a 120-pound kid it's nowhere near that 600 number (off by a couple hundred plus). And I know you were doing 45 degrees vice full but that's still a huge margin. I'm not implying that you weren't a badass, and by all counts it seems that you were quite a powerhouse as a 120-pound junior, but I think the weight might be a bit off.

Men’s World Records

worldpowerlifting.com

As for Ferrari, I'd love to think there's something that can be done to bring him into the fold and make him a Hawk, but I don't see that dog huntin. I think he's got a few too many screws loose for even the greatest zen masters in college wrestling to fix. But I guess we'll see. I just hope we don't lose the other two, especially the younger one coming in.

Nope - it happened just as I described it.. I’m 74 and can still remember my phone number from when I was in Jr HS. (Same Jr HS that Ed Ruth attended) So no memory loss either.

But also keep in mind that my choice of schools back then was Penn State, not Iowa. Clear evidence that I was making smarter choices at that age. 😁

 

[Lyons212]

As a freshman at PSU Hazleton, I was introduced to squats by a ex-Marine classmate. In short order he had me going from the bar, 135, 225, and finally 6 45's..but my core didn't keep up. One day, I started bending over, and my would be coach yelled "throw it", but it was too late and I have permanent damage (dr, says scar tissue not herniated disc).

By my late 20's, I assumed that it was "healed" and finally having a job that had stable hours, I was squatting again, and blew past 315. I must be healed right? Then 405. 425,455. 475.. and it locked up. I went to the doctor, got a scrip Norflex and 800 mg Ibuprofen, and a week later back at it. Two more times I went to see the doc and he finally said "hey, you know the difference between destructive and non-destructive testing?". When I said "yeah, I was an engineering major" he said "good, guess which one you are doing".

Ironically, one of the occasional spasms would in mid December 2019 drive me to the ER, where I was told "good thing you decided to come in yesterday, otherwise you'd have been dead by Christmas".

Now AJ apparently doesn't have any any apparent muscular-skeletal damage yet, but there's no reason to load this much weight. In terms of becoming conditioned for wrestling, I'd do goblet squats. More activation of the core, works forearms and shoulders, no risk of..

View embedded media

Double kettlebell front squats are the king of working the core. Unless you are a competitive power-lifter, really no reason to do back squats and put that massive a load on your spine.

 

[tullfan68]

Injury and long term spine issues would be a bigger concern than fat. Plenty of fat asses who never power lifted anything. He does it for attention, like everything else he does.

my brother did mostly powerlifting and a little body bulding but just enough to have a very good physique.I would say he was the best athlete in my family of us 4 boys and we were all pretty good.He won the YMCA state wrestling title after high school,then he took second at states in the 2 mile run was only 5 ft 4 but he could fly on the track and he held many ERIE weightlifting records for probably 20 yrs before someone broke them!!deadlift bench and squat he had them all!nice to remember but now were all older and not doing so well!Just things we will never forget!

 

[tullfan68]

my brother did mostly powerlifting and a little body bulding but just enough to have a very good physique.I would say he was the best athlete in my family of us 4 boys and we were all pretty good.He won the YMCA state wrestling title after high school,then he took second at states in the 2 mile run was only 5 ft 4 but he could fly on the track and he held many ERIE weightlifting records for probably 20 yrs before someone broke them!!deadlift bench and squat he had them all!nice to remember but now were all older and not doing so well!Just things we will never forget!

not to mention he wrestled the same weight as Magoon and McCall 2 state champs from Strong Vincent just couldn't quite get by those 2!!

 

[Pinfan]

not to mention he wrestled the same weight as Magoon and McCall 2 state champs from Strong Vincent just couldn't quite get by those 2!!

did you and your brothers by chance hang out at Block's Pool Hall in the day?

 

[raslen007]

During my marathon days I had some odd symptoms. At first I could deal with it to the finish. Then it started within the first 10 miles. Got checked up and and 3 weeks later had a bypass. I had an artery that went nowhere. It was a defect I had since birth. The Doc said on one hand the fact that your in great shape but under all that stress it could have been really bad. He said to me "do you realize we are the only mammal that chooses to run 26.2 miles all at once" his point was just because you can doesn't mean you should.

 

[tullfan68]

did you and your brothers by chance hang out at Block's Pool Hall in the day?

hell my Dad lived there he was one of the best pool shooters in the country esp billiards he went up to Rochester for the fun of it and knocked off the world billiard champ! ever hear of Red DeForce??I went all over the world in my navy yrs and many people ask me if I was related of course I was proud to say yes my Dad!I think he also managed blocks for a few yrs!

 

[tullfan68]

did you and your brothers by chance hang out at Block's Pool Hall in the day?

we all shot pool but none could touch my dad he just put English on the ball you wouldn't believe.I watched him run 100 balls many many times!

 

[Mat Burn]

hell my Dad lived there he was one of the best pool shooters in the country esp billiards he went up to Rochester for the fun of it and knocked off the world billiard champ! ever hear of Red DeForce??I went all over the world in my navy yrs and many people ask me if I was related of course I was proud to say yes my Dad!I think he also managed blocks for a few yrs!

So he played Irving Crane? Did he ever tangle with Joe Balsis?

 

[Pitchfork Rebel]

Double kettlebell front squats are the king of working the core. Unless you are a competitive power-lifter, really no reason to do back squats and put that massive a load on your spine.

I wish I knew that then.

 

[Nashville_Hawkeye]

Double kettlebell front squats are the king of working the core. Unless you are a competitive power-lifter, really no reason to do back squats and put that massive a load on your spine.

Back in the day we did what Arnold and company did in Pumping Iron...no kettlebells and long-term back and joint isses.

 

[El-Jefe]

Back in the day we did what Arnold and company did in Pumping Iron...no kettlebells and long-term back and joint isses.

Steroids and weed?

 

[Pinfan]

we all shot pool but none could touch my dad he just put English on the ball you wouldn't believe.I watched him run 100 balls many many times!

I think I know who your family is , some pretty good wrestlers too, back in a day when there were no pre-high school wrestling clubs in this part of the world. If I'm correct you had a boxing club for disadvatnaged kids too..right?

 

[tullfan68]

So he played Irving Crane? Did he ever tangle with Joe Balsis?

yes beat Crane didnt play Balsis he had shooters from all over come to Erie to play he usually won but he had an alcohol problem which kept him from the top! But when he was sober he could beat anyone!

 

[tullfan68]

I think I know who your family is , some pretty good wrestlers too, back in a day when there were no pre-high school wrestling clubs in this part of the world. If I'm correct you had a boxing club for disadvatnaged kids too..right?

yes the boxing club was my brother Matts he still runs it and he's 79.I am Doug with 3 brothers Matt,Murray and Clark we all wrestled I was ranked like 5 or 6 in the state my senior yr at EAST HIGH BUT THE WEIGHT CUT FROM 125 TO 103 WAS TO MUCH BY THE END OF THE SEASON I GOT SICK PLUS THE WEIGHT CUT I WAS DONE AND YOU KNOW BACK THEN IT WAS FIRST PLACE OR YOUR DONE!

 

[tullfan68]

Bye the way pin where are you from?

 

[tullfan68]

So he played Irving Crane? Did he ever tangle with Joe Balsis?

my dad played anyone and everyone in pool I doubt I know half the guys he played!

 

[AgSurfer]

my dad played anyone and everyone in pool I doubt I know half the guys he played!

Did he play Fast Eddie Felson? 😁

 

[tullfan68]

Did he play Fast Eddie Felson? 😁

would have loved to see that!

 

[HawkFan1986]

During my marathon days I had some odd symptoms. At first I could deal with it to the finish. Then it started within the first 10 miles. Got checked up and and 3 weeks later had a bypass. I had an artery that went nowhere. It was a defect I had since birth. The Doc said on one hand the fact that your in great shape but under all that stress it could have been really bad. He said to me "do you realize we are the only mammal that chooses to run 26.2 miles all at once" his point was just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Awesome post. Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t the first guy to run a marathon die? Thought I read or heard that somewhere.

It’s insane the amount of punishment the human body can put up with. In most everything it is our minds that hold us back.

 

[orange nole]

Steroids and weed?

Coors Lite and Creatine!

 

[Nashville_Hawkeye]

Steroids and weed?

The guys I hung with couldn't afford steroids, but ditch weed was really easy to come by. LOL!

 

[Mat Burn]

my dad played anyone and everyone in pool I doubt I know half the guys he played!

Well Irving Crain was the straight pool world champ who lived in Rochester and competed in the 60's. Mike Sigel was another world champ who spent time between Rochester and Baltimore in the 70's and 80's. Joe Balsis was another straight pool world champ who lived in Minersville, and also competed in the 60's.

There is an old video on youtube of the World Championship final in straight pool between Crain and Balsis, where Crain runs 150 and out.

Just curious is all as I never heard of your father, but from my experience it is the guys you never heard of that are the ones you need to be most concerned about.

Sorry missed your original answer. Beating Crain is quite an accomplishment, and could have dried up all of his future action if he beat him without a spot.

 

[AgSurfer]

I grew up in Sioux City, Iowa, so was a diehard Iowa Hawks fan. After graduating HS in Sioux City, I joined the Army, and after 8 years of enlisted service I decided to try the officer side of the house, which required me to complete my bachelors degree. Since my brother at that time was serving in the Air Force at Luke AFB, about 30 mins from the ASU campus I chose ASU. Actually it was proximity to my brother and the fact that ASU gave me a full ride ROTC scholarship, which an obligation to go back on active duty service. It was good being close to family and the weather was perfect all year round. And just coming out of three years in Hawaii, I wanted no part of those Iowa winters.

WRT ASU's wreslting program under Zeke Jones, I think he and his staff are doing an excellent job. It took him a while to get where we wanted to be, but the last four years they've finished 4, 4, 7 and 6, which is pretty impressive against the B10's top tier teams along with Okie State, Cornell, Mizzou, VA Tech, etc. Like Iowa, I think he could do better with more top 10 and top 20 recruits, but overall I think he's done very well. Clearly PSU destroyed the field this past year, but Zeke and company finished within 7.5 or 8 points of second place...pretty impressive by any standard. Thanks for the discussion!

First of all, thank you for your service. Are you still in the military or have you moved on?

One of the best dual meets ever was in 1989 or 1990 when Iowa went against ASU. Gable was still head coach for Iowa and Bobby Douglas was at ASU. Douglas was an awesome coach and he built a top level program for ASU. Zeke was at 118 for ASU at that time. I remember watching Tom Brands totally brutalize Shawn Charles. There was one sequence where he pushed him off the mat and then hammered him on the side of his headgear with both hands clasped together. I think the ref gave Charles a point for unnecessary roughness, but I felt Brands should have been DQ'd because it was so blatant and egregious.

The dual went down to the heavyweights where Iowa needed a pin to win. (There was no criteria at that time) The ASU guy did something really odd and got tossed to his back. I remember him fighting for almost a minute to avoid being pinned and he somehow made it through the period. The dual ended up as a tie. I think the dual is on YouTube if anyone wants to watch it.

 

[Nashville_Hawkeye]

First of all, thank you for your service. Are you still in the military or have you moved on?

One of the best dual meets ever was in 1989 or 1990 when Iowa went against ASU. Gable was still head coach for Iowa and Bobby Douglas was at ASU. Douglas was an awesome coach and he built a top level program for ASU. Zeke was at 118 for ASU at that time. I remember watching Tom Brands totally brutalize Shawn Charles. There was one sequence where he pushed him off the mat and then hammered him on the side of his headgear with both hands clasped together. I think the ref gave Charles a point for unnecessary roughness, but I felt Brands should have been DQ'd because it was so blatant and egregious.

The dual went down to the heavyweights where Iowa needed a pin to win. (There was no criteria at that time) The ASU guy did something really odd and got tossed to his back. I remember him fighting for almost a minute to avoid being pinned and he somehow made it through the period. The dual ended up as a tie. I think the dual is on YouTube if anyone wants to watch it.

Hi friend,

I retired in 2008. Met the right woman and called it a day. Thankfully it's worked out so well and I still have that right woman!

I just watched most of the Brands match you mentioned. You picked the correct word "brutalize." I didn't see anything horribly bad, though my link missed the first part of the match, and though Brands was brutal during the match he seemed very polite and professional in the end. I tried to find the entire dual but it didn't pop up in the first several on the list and I've got to get back to work. Hope you have a good day!

 

[bourbon n blues]

To add to this, we have different goals and needs. I'm currently nursing a torn meniscus on my right side and over did my PT aggravating it. I might be able to get back to some squatting, but it's going to be awhile.

Also, are you built to powerlift? not everyone should make heavy lifting their hobby, some are more naturally inclined towards strength sports. It took me a lot of extra work to maintain myself into my late 50s a lifting. And this work started in my middle teenage years.

I wish I knew that then.

 

[Pinfan]

Bye the way pin where are you from?

I'm from Erie and remember your career at East and yes, you were very good. What a team you had in 67-68. I don't think we ever crossed paths but I do remember talking to Murray...good guy.

 

[tullfan68]

Well Irving Crain was the straight pool world champ who lived in Rochester and competed in the 60's. Mike Sigel was another world champ who spent time between Rochester and Baltimore in the 70's and 80's. Joe Balsis was another straight pool world champ who lived in Minersville, and also competed in the 60's.

There is an old video on youtube of the World Championship final in straight pool between Crain and Balsis, where Crain runs 150 and out.

Just curious is all as I never heard of your father, but from my experience it is the guys you never heard of that are the ones you need to be most concerned about.

Sorry missed your original answer. Beating Crain is quite an accomplishment, and could have dried up all of his future action if he beat him without a spot.

LOL my dad was the one giving the spot but I don't think he ever played that way just straight up.I am sure there are many great shooters you and I never heard of from the small towns and alleys. back then it was just trying to make a living and raising your family,we didnt have much growing up but we did the best we could!my dad was better known as Red if you never heard of him,well no big deal to bad you never got to see him at work!he passed long ago so I would just say come to Erie one day and ask about him,I am sure most of the guys he hung with are also gone so really no one left to tell the story it wont be long before I am gone as well!

 

[tullfan68]

have a great day Mat

 

[tullfan68]

I'm from Erie and remember your career at East and yes, you were very good. What a team you had in 67-68. I don't think we ever crossed paths but I do remember talking to Murray...good guy.

yes we had very good teams in the late 60S Fletcher Carr was on those teams I knew his whole family very well.everyone loves the MURMAN as they use to call him were all still hanging on just getting older Murray is in a home now just trying to make it day to day.Nice to hear from another Erie guy!feel free to ask me any questions you may have sooner than later I have terminal cancer from agent orange so I am also just going day by day I will be 74 this yr but I have had a good life and wouldn't trade it for anything the chemo is working so I just do my thing !

 

[Pennstate1985]

yes we had very good teams in the late 60S Fletcher Carr was on those teams I knew his whole family very well.everyone loves the MURMAN as they use to call him were all still hanging on just getting older Murray is in a home now just trying to make it day to day.Nice to hear from another Erie guy!feel free to ask me any questions you may have sooner than later I have terminal cancer from agent orange so I am also just going day by day I will be 74 this yr but I have had a good life and wouldn't trade it for anything the chemo is working so I just do my thing !

Sorry to hear Tullfan68, and thank you for your service. That war really was hell. My wife's father was in the Tet Offensive and got shot up pretty badly. That war was no joke.

 

[Ski]

Well Irving Crain was the straight pool world champ who lived in Rochester and competed in the 60's. Mike Sigel was another world champ who spent time between Rochester and Baltimore in the 70's and 80's. Joe Balsis was another straight pool world champ who lived in Minersville, and also competed in the 60's.

There is an old video on youtube of the World Championship final in straight pool between Crain and Balsis, where Crain runs 150 and out.

Just curious is all as I never heard of your father, but from my experience it is the guys you never heard of that are the ones you need to be most concerned about.

Sorry missed your original answer. Beating Crain is quite an accomplishment, and could have dried up all of his future action if he beat him without a spot.

Straight pool was a staple at my dad's pool hall. It is a great game that not many people play anymore in this fast paced, instant gratification world we live in. I saw once where Earl Strickland said for years that he thought the best game to practice was 9-ball and then Mike Sigel made the case for straight pool being a better game to practice and eventually Earl came to agree.

 

[AgSurfer]

yes we had very good teams in the late 60S Fletcher Carr was on those teams I knew his whole family very well.everyone loves the MURMAN as they use to call him were all still hanging on just getting older Murray is in a home now just trying to make it day to day.Nice to hear from another Erie guy!feel free to ask me any questions you may have sooner than later I have terminal cancer from agent orange so I am also just going day by day I will be 74 this yr but I have had a good life and wouldn't trade it for anything the chemo is working so I just do my thing !

Oh man, dude - there's no way I can come up with anything that will feel like it's the right thing to say. The worst of that war was almost 60 years ago and it's still taking away our best guys. My wife and I will be sure to add you to our prayer list, and it's my hope that whatever time you have left with us will be calm and peaceful.

 

[Pinfan]

yes we had very good teams in the late 60S Fletcher Carr was on those teams I knew his whole family very well.everyone loves the MURMAN as they use to call him were all still hanging on just getting older Murray is in a home now just trying to make it day to day.Nice to hear from another Erie guy!feel free to ask me any questions you may have sooner than later I have terminal cancer from agent orange so I am also just going day by day I will be 74 this yr but I have had a good life and wouldn't trade it for anything the chemo is working so I just do my thing !

I met a few Carrs myself, terrific family. I'm sorry to hear about your condition. Take pride in all your accomplishments and know more than one random Erie guy knows about it.

 

[Mat Burn]

Straight pool was a staple at my dad's pool hall. It is a great game that not many people play anymore in this fast paced, instant gratification world we live in. I saw once where Earl Strickland said for years that he thought the best game to practice was 9-ball and then Mike Sigel made the case for straight pool being a better game to practice and eventually Earl came to agree.

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I started gambling @ Straight pool when I was 14 (when I supposed to be at bowling practice in High School) when my father found out, he made me go out for wrestling, to keep me away from it. It didn't work. LOL

Straight pool is the king of games, it demands the highest level of concentration (over long periods of time) and it is a game that requires you to be precise with cueball postion. If you are out of line an inch your run can stop. Position zones in 9 ball are much larger. It is more important in 9ball just to be on the correct side of the object ball. Add to that you have to be able to get up and perform especially after sitting in the chair while your opponent is running racks.

Where was your dads room?

 

[Mat Burn]

LOL my dad was the one giving the spot but I don't think he ever played that way just straight up.I am sure there are many great shooters you and I never heard of from the small towns and alleys. back then it was just trying to make a living and raising your family,we didnt have much growing up but we did the best we could!my dad was better known as Red if you never heard of him,well no big deal to bad you never got to see him at work!he passed long ago so I would just say come to Erie one day and ask about him,I am sure most of the guys he hung with are also gone so really no one left to tell the story it wont be long before I am gone as well!

Damn that is strong I wish I could have seen him.

Your right back in the day players were tougher because if they didn't win, they didn't eat.

 

[tullfan68]

Damn that is strong I wish I could have seen him.

Your right back in the day players were tougher because if they didn't win, they didn't eat.

my dad was good at spending all his paycheck in drinking but then he made it all up at the pool hall!quite the character!