PA HS Wrestling thread
- Thread starter El-Jefe
- Start date
Am calling myself out. I did not realize the rule book was changed to discuss this exact scenario. After reading this change. Definitely the wrong call.
I'd lean towards this being a "toss", but not going to lambast a ref on a judgment call. To say it was premeditated seems a bit much from people I've talked to who were there. It's a crappy way to lose a match, but it's also a life lesson.
We had a kid lose a team point for the same in the post-season dual a couple years back. A new kid got his first ever win - by a flukey fall over a RQ - and tossed his headgear to a teammate. We ended up losing by I think 3 I think. I wouldn't have blamed the ref had that been the difference, but I'm pretty old school about these things.
We had a kid lose a team point for the same in the post-season dual a couple years back. A new kid got his first ever win - by a flukey fall over a RQ - and tossed his headgear to a teammate. We ended up losing by I think 3 I think. I wouldn't have blamed the ref had that been the difference, but I'm pretty old school about these things.
I wonder Nickal’s Dad taking over in State College will compare to other high schools being in the same town at traditional powers (Iowa city, Stillwater). PIAA shuts that stuff down. If you want to make super teams in PA you have to go private.
No you dont need to go private, just start a Christian/Catholic school. They can recruit and get transfers without penalty.
That's's what going private is.
Technically, privates can't recruit and get transfers without penalty. Unfortunately, the rules are only applied sporadically and haphazardly. Either the rules need to change, or 4 or 5 schools should be in the penalty box and a dozen coaches suspended.
Technically, privates can't recruit and get transfers without penalty. Unfortunately, the rules are only applied sporadically and haphazardly. Either the rules need to change, or 4 or 5 schools should be in the penalty box and a dozen coaches suspended.
The rules need to change.
Privates should compete for their own state titles, across the entire athletic spectrum.
Public schools should only care about transfers if there is something appears shady. If a family moves into a different school district after a kid has entered HS the reason shouldn't matter to the PIAA, the athletic district or a specific school. The kid moved with his family.
If a kid enters a private school and decides that isn't for him/her and re-enrolls into his/her former school the reasons are not the business of the school district.
Just a few to start.
I'm not entirely disagreeing - enforce the exisiting rules consistently and fairly, or change them to something thst will be enforced consistently and fairly. I don't know the best solution to the private school issue. The FCAs and BMCs and similar programs in other sports are an issue. Most privaye schools are mediocre and will drop sports if you put them in a division with super teams. That's not ideal either.
As a former wrestler, coach, and ref, I always wanted private to be separate. You for sure make valid points with the mediocre private schools. However, those schools are primarily transferred to for academic reasons only. I do not believe for a second that when a top tier wrestler goes to BECHA, Bishop McCort, FCA, etc, its for academics.
Here are my thoughts on how things should be handled based solely off private vs public:
Private and public both have AA and AAA which the only good way I can think of separating is based on enrollment. The numbers would obviously have to be adjusted for private.
Wrestling adopts a football point system. If you earn "x" amount of points in a 2 year cycle, you are forced to move up to the next classification for the next cycle. That goes for private and public. I haven't nailed down if the top AAA public school in a 2 year cycle should move to AA private. Logistics could prove a nightmare.
If a public school has x amount of transfers on their roster that have transferred after 8th grade, they are required to wrestle private.
The state individual tournament would stay as is, private and public together. The team tournament would have 4 classes as mentioned above, and I think you would still be able to do them all the same weekend like they do now.
By no means do I think this is a perfect solution, but I think the basics of this model would be fair and at least a start to resolving a lot of the issues that a lot of fans, parents, and athletes bring up.
Well, I recently read that the number of transfers is being removed from the football formula, and that only state champs could be moved up based on points. So much for PIAA really trying to level the field.
If I could create my own reality, I'd do something similar to what you suggest, but I'd start by including all schools and base it just on competition and transfers. I'd expanding the point system to include the top for 4 or maybe even 6 finishers, and also have a transfer component. A kid counts as a transfer if he/she was not in the district or the private school's feeder system before 8th grade (or maybe 7th). Try that for a couple years and see how it works.
I think that logistics makes it hard to separate private schools. Too many would have unrealistic travel requirements. Even now, the AAA public district we're in has schools in our conference over an hour and 3/4 away.
I always thought the transfer rule sucked anyway. I get that kids sometimes transfer for athletic reasons. But how do you separate that from a kid who moved because his parents took jobs that required them to move. Or their parents saved money to buy a nicer house a few miles up the road, but across a school district line. Why should that kid get punished?
Just my opinion, but there are way too many legitimate reasons for transferring, compared to one illegitimate one.
Separation of public and private schools is really the only solution. Let the public schools decide if they want to schedule the private schools in their area.
As far as lengthy travel goes for the private schools, oh well. The parents sent their kids there for academic reasons anyway, right?????
Just look at the travel times for District 5 and 6 schools now. The vast majority of which are public schools, and a good number of 1A (football) teams. The couple of 5A and 6A teams in D6 travel to Harrisburg or Pittsburgh areas.
Wrestlers have been transferring for sports for decades. This isn’t nothing new. I agree with you, I don’t like Public vs private, but I completely understand why the top wrestlers do it. These programs give them alot more opportunities and it seems like all the families are like minded.
I just wish it would be three seperate team duals AA, AAA and privates
I just wish it would be three seperate team duals AA, AAA and privates
I don't know, but context for everyone else:
PA-Wrestling.com : Your online resource for Pennsylvania Wrestling
www.pa-wrestling.com
6 forfeits out of 13 weights (1 didn't count because it was a double-forfeit).
Looks like they only got 12 total on the roster. I glanced down and at least listed, they appear to all be at different weights. But a couple don't have anything listed beside them.I don't know, but context for everyone else:
PA-Wrestling.com : Your online resource for Pennsylvania Wrestling
6 forfeits out of 13 weights (1 didn't count because it was a double-forfeit).
So there already giving up a minimum of 2 forefits, plus a couple injuries or illnesses means they'll be giving up a lot of forfeits.
Maybe Mr Watts knows. It's odd for them to have that many forfeits
Sorry, not a lot of insight here. Not connected to the program in any way. But I did hear that they had at least 4 kids hurt. Also, there looks to be a bit of a logjam in the upper weights. I was also surprised to see Max Wirnsberger all the way up at 172. He wrestled 133 last year!
The Junior High lost 87-0. Hard for me to fathom considering what my dad, and others, built.
They didn't remove the competition and transfer formulas, but it was adjusted. PennLive had an interview with Bob Lombardi where he explained this. In the previous competition formula, teams could face promotion by making the state semifinals in back to back years. They increased the points needed for promotion to basically require that a program at least make a state final before facing promotion.
They also changed the number of transfers needed to go along with the competition formula change through all sports. The transfer limit was set at one half (rounded down) of the required players needed to start a contest. So it looks like this:
Basketball: 2 or more transfers (previously 1)
Field Hockey: 3 or more transfers (previously 2)
Soccer: 3 or more transfers (previously 2)
Tennis: 3 or more transfers (previously 1)
Volleyball: 3 or more transfers (previously 2)
Wrestling: 3 or more transfers (previously 2)
Baseball: 4 or more transfers (previously 2)
Softball: 4 or more transfers (previously 2)
Lacrosse: 5 or more transfers (previously 2)
Football 5 or more transfers (previously 3)
They had a bunch of lightweight kids not come out this year. Plus, they've never gotten any separation in weight in their core group of kids that have been staples in the lineup the last couple years. So they've got a logjam from 152-215, with three of those spots taken by the Milheims and Wirnsberger. Tyler Ulrich is technically the backup at 189 and pinned #1 Brian Heard in the finals at the DKI.
The transfer rule in wrestling is worthless. Kids just switch after their 8th grade year which doesn’t count in the eyes of the PIAA. Youth parents feel so special when little Ricky is being recruited by his club coach who also a HS coach and bite the hook.
