PSU No. 1 most overrated team? (an SEC perspective)

[tboyer]

Anybody else agree? I think the guy is overstating the case. Seems to me PSU's a pretty safe bet for the top 25 based on recruiting and the defensive coaching staff. But not top 15 because of offensive coaching. I hope Rahne figures it out. It's true the O played more like a John Donovan offense than a Moorhead offense last year.

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/5-teams-getting-too-much-national-love-2019/

Rankings: No. 9 (The Athletic), No. 20 (CBS Sports), No. 21 (USA Today)

Sell! Sell! Sell!

Oh, pardon me. That’s what I’m doing with my James Franklin stock. Rather, that’s what I did with my Franklin stock a year ago. It absolutely baffles me to think that anyone could put Penn State in their top 10. I don’t think the Lions are worthy of a Top 25 spot. Why?

• Lost most productive QB in program history
• Went 0-3 against Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State last year
• Rank 100th in FBS in percentage of returning production
• Had slew of offseason departures/transfers

Starting to catch my drift? On top of that, I’m just not sold on Franklin as an in-game decision-maker. I get that the Lions have had 3 consecutive top 20 finishes, and they posted a 21-6 conference record in that stretch, but I’m not convinced on Franklin being the guy to maximize their talent. I think he surrounded himself with some integral assistants in Joe Moorhead and Josh Gattis, who played a huge part in getting Penn State back to national relevance.

Call me crazy, but I feel like 2019 will feel a lot like the pre-Moorhead era (2015).

 

[Raffycorn]

Sounds like the same tired old “Franklin’s lucky run will end now that (insert player/coach here) has left!” shtick that we’ve heard for the past three years now. Big time yawn.

 

[PS4814]

I'd be interested in finding out the background of the author - but I'm not about to click on the link and give them any additional clicks.

 

[Obliviax]

IMHO, its a crap shoot. We don't know what a lot of key players will do once starters. Of course, the most glaring of these is QB. Having said that, we have a ton of talent from great recruiting years. With a young team, we can expect a lot of mistakes. We also need upper class leadership and I don't know where that will come from.

lastly, on your point about CJF, this is a big year for him. Was PSU's success due to Barkely or can we maintain consistency. Last year, I expected more but Trace under performed as did the WR's.

Given all of that, I am comfortable with all positions going into 2019. There is talent at every position. The kid we have at QB is going to be really good. The only team that has less question marks than us, that we play, is Michigan. I expect us to lose 3 or 4 games but wouldn't be shocked to compete for the B1G. We have more talent than anyone we play except Michigan and tOSU. tOSU is in transition so it will be interesting to see them this year (with a new QB and a weak bench at QB).

 

[Thomas1945]

Doesn’t everyone have an ahole, or is it any ahole can write an article? I must admit that I get confused about that sometimes because they appear to be interchangeable.

 

[Madsol]

Honestly, I think there is some truth in there, but he's also overstating the situation. Over the last two seasons, we have lost 6 games. But outside of the Michigan game, we've lost the other 5 games by a total of 11 points. But, we lost them. That's a fact. And until we start winning those types of games with more regularity, we'll give fuel to guys like this.

Now I am getting tired of this idea that Franklin is successful as a head coach only when he surrounds himself with good assistants, as if every other successful head coach is doing it all on their own. Rubbish! I do believe that Franklin needs to up his game day coaching a bit but he has a really good eye for assistants and I'm confident that his current assistants either will get the job done or he'll find others who will. IMHO, we are in very good hands with Franklin.

 

[Obliviax]

Honestly, I think there is some truth in there, but he's also overstating the situation. Over the last two seasons, we have lost 6 games. But outside of the Michigan game, we've lost the other 5 games by a total of 11 points. But, we lost them. That's a fact. And until we start winning those types of games with more regularity, we'll give fuel to guys like this.

Now I am getting tired of this idea that Franklin is successful as a head coach only when he surrounds himself with good assistants, as if every other successful head coach is doing it all on their own. Rubbish! I do believe that Franklin needs to up his game day coaching a bit but he has a really good eye for assistants and I'm confident that his current assistants either will get the job done or he'll find others who will. IMHO, we are in very good hands with Franklin.

I agree. But the offense underperformed last year despite Trace being back. JoeMo? Barkley? An anomaly? We can all speculate but won't know until we see the product. CJF's team is now fully his. There are no sanctions nor residual affects. He has recruited the talent and it is there. Now it comes down to player development and game day execution.

 

[Doc-M]

Last year's team underperformed due to injuries to Trace. Coach does not catch, run, or tackle. Our Coach is an awesome coach, gameday or not. Tboyer, I disagree, you cannot be further from the truth.

 

[dbsteel]

This is College- everyone loses players every year, and is breaking in a QB every couple. He's reaching.

 

[Obliviax]

Last year's team underperformed due to injuries to Trace. Coach does not catch, run, or tackle. Our Coach is an awesome coach, gameday or not. Tboyer, I disagree, you cannot be further from the truth.

I believe there is some truth to that...especially with Tommy being hurt we were light at QB and almost had to play an injured player. Having said that, Trace and the WR's did not play well before he was hurt. So...

 

[Delco Lion]

I'd be interested in finding out the background of the author - but I'm not about to click on the link and give them any additional clicks.

There is no background. I looked everywhere and coudnt find his bio or any info on him.

 

[JWB389]

9 is too high. 20 and 21 are OK. I wouldn't argue even if we were 24.

 

[marshall23]

Anybody else agree? I think the guy is overstating the case. Seems to me PSU's a pretty safe bet for the top 25 based on recruiting and the defensive coaching staff. But not top 15 because of offensive coaching. I hope Rahne figures it out. It's true the O played more like a John Donovan offense than a Moorhead offense last year.

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/5-teams-getting-too-much-national-love-2019/

Rankings: No. 9 (The Athletic), No. 20 (CBS Sports), No. 21 (USA Today)

Sell! Sell! Sell!

Oh, pardon me. That’s what I’m doing with my James Franklin stock. Rather, that’s what I did with my Franklin stock a year ago. It absolutely baffles me to think that anyone could put Penn State in their top 10. I don’t think the Lions are worthy of a Top 25 spot. Why?

• Lost most productive QB in program history
• Went 0-3 against Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State last year
• Rank 100th in FBS in percentage of returning production
• Had slew of offseason departures/transfers

Starting to catch my drift? On top of that, I’m just not sold on Franklin as an in-game decision-maker. I get that the Lions have had 3 consecutive top 20 finishes, and they posted a 21-6 conference record in that stretch, but I’m not convinced on Franklin being the guy to maximize their talent. I think he surrounded himself with some integral assistants in Joe Moorhead and Josh Gattis, who played a huge part in getting Penn State back to national relevance.

Call me crazy, but I feel like 2019 will feel a lot like the pre-Moorhead era (2015).

Moorhead did a nice job at PSU. No argument. How did "his" offense do this year at MSU?
Rahne did just fine at the Fiesta Bowl.
This season, just some small details....no Barkley(a generational pro player), impossible to calculate the impact of his loss on all other position players.......MG at TE, and a few pretty good WR. Rahne is in no way responsible for drops or the injury that severely limited Trace.
We'll see if the legend of Moorhead grows at MSU. If he's courting Tommy, he is already getting a tight sphincter.
Players make coaches look good.....or bad. I think it was Bear Bryant who said that a great coach "can take hisin and beat yourin and take yourin and beat hisin." I don't see any coaches out there that I would put in that category right now.

 

[BBG65]

Trace, certainly, didn't throw the ball as well as in the past and that was probably injury related. The receivers had their problems also and you can't put that on Franklin. I think they'll be fine this year as long as Clifford stays healthy. Levis has to be ready to go, if needed.
As for losing players, it's not who you lose, it's who you have. Many years ago, going into my junior year in high school, we had lost all but one starter from a very good team and people were predicting us to take a big step back. What people outside the program didn't know was that my class hadn't lost a game from junior high to JVs. Obviously, college doesn't have those lower levels, but it still applies. The top programs reload on a regular basis and I hope we can be one of those.

 

[Obliviax]

Moorhead did a nice job at PSU. No argument. How did "his" offense do this year at MSU?
Rahne did just fine at the Fiesta Bowl.
This season, just some small details....no Barkley(a generational pro player), impossible to calculate the impact of his loss on all other position players.......MG at TE, and a few pretty good WR. Rahne is in no way responsible for drops or the injury that severely limited Trace.
We'll see if the legend of Moorhead grows at MSU. If he's courting Tommy, he is already getting a tight sphincter.
Players make coaches look good.....or bad. I think it was Bear Bryant who said that a great coach "can take hisin and beat yourin and take yourin and beat hisin." I don't see any coaches out there that I would put in that category right now.

Agree...college coaching is a) recruiting b) player development and c) game-day performance. CJF now has "his" players and his staff. And while we've beaten some Michigans and tOSUs, we've lost more than won. tOSU is under a new coach now.

its time.

 

[Raffycorn]

Moorhead did a nice job at PSU. No argument. How did "his" offense do this year at MSU?
Rahne did just fine at the Fiesta Bowl.
This season, just some small details....no Barkley(a generational pro player), impossible to calculate the impact of his loss on all other position players.......MG at TE, and a few pretty good WR. Rahne is in no way responsible for drops or the injury that severely limited Trace.
We'll see if the legend of Moorhead grows at MSU. If he's courting Tommy, he is already getting a tight sphincter.
Players make coaches look good.....or bad. I think it was Bear Bryant who said that a great coach "can take hisin and beat yourin and take yourin and beat hisin." I don't see any coaches out there that I would put in that category right now.

That’s more and more been my opinion. You often see the Moorhead/PSU relationship described as “Franklin really benefited from having Moorhead as his OC”...but Moorhead benefited just as much - if not more - from all of the talent Franklin recruited that he inherited. We saw Moorhead’s offense be relatively unimpressive at MSU when he didn’t have all of those players that Franklin recruited and Galt developed like Trace, Barkley, Gesicki, Hamilton and Godwin.

 

[tboyer]

I think the personnel is there on offense. CJF has recruited as well for the O as he has for the D. They have offensive talent that 10 other B1G teams would kill for. I'm just not confident, based on last year, that the O is going to gell. I do not have the same doubt about the D. The difference is -- Pry has proven he can coach. Rahne has not.

 

[PSU_522]

What will he say when we start the season 5 - 0?

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

I haven't been nearly as impressed with recent coaches, including Moorhead, as much as I've been the players they've had, particularly at running back and receiver (prior to last year). We are now recruiting as well as most teams in the Top 20. Our strength and conditioning program is obviously top notch. But I have yet to see evidence that we can game plan and out coach good teams on game day.

Hate to reiterate this, but OSU, MSU, and Michigan really are the indicators. When we regularly take 2 out of 3 a page will have been turned. This will take solid game plans and game-day decision-making. That is the difference when recruiting and player development are equal.

 

[KnightSlayer]

Anybody else agree? I think the guy is overstating the case. Seems to me PSU's a pretty safe bet for the top 25 based on recruiting and the defensive coaching staff. But not top 15 because of offensive coaching. I hope Rahne figures it out. It's true the O played more like a John Donovan offense than a Moorhead offense last year.

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/5-teams-getting-too-much-national-love-2019/

Rankings: No. 9 (The Athletic), No. 20 (CBS Sports), No. 21 (USA Today)

Sell! Sell! Sell!

Oh, pardon me. That’s what I’m doing with my James Franklin stock. Rather, that’s what I did with my Franklin stock a year ago. It absolutely baffles me to think that anyone could put Penn State in their top 10. I don’t think the Lions are worthy of a Top 25 spot. Why?

• Lost most productive QB in program history
• Went 0-3 against Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State last year
• Rank 100th in FBS in percentage of returning production
• Had slew of offseason departures/transfers

Starting to catch my drift? On top of that, I’m just not sold on Franklin as an in-game decision-maker. I get that the Lions have had 3 consecutive top 20 finishes, and they posted a 21-6 conference record in that stretch, but I’m not convinced on Franklin being the guy to maximize their talent. I think he surrounded himself with some integral assistants in Joe Moorhead and Josh Gattis, who played a huge part in getting Penn State back to national relevance.

Call me crazy, but I feel like 2019 will feel a lot like the pre-Moorhead era (2015).

I have yet to see a national sports writer that knows more about Penn State football than most of the rational posters on this board. I did a quick run down of who we lost and potential replacements. I broke it down by feel good, hopeful and, worried about their replacements. There were none that I was really worried about but, I'm a bit of an optimist. Overall, I'm feeling very good about this team going into 2019. Worried if any injuries at QB, OT, DT.

Left for the NFL
Miles Sanders (feel good about replacement) Slade, Brown, Cain, Holmes
Connor McGovern (feel good about replacement) Thorpe, Miranda
Shareef Miller (hopeful about replacement) Toney, Simmons, Oweh, Joseph
Amani Oruwariye (feel good about replacement)Castro-Fields, Johnson
Trace Mcsorley (feel good about replacement) Clifford
Ryan Bates (hopeful about replacement) Walker, ??
Nick Scott (hopeful about replacement) Sutherland, Wade
Kevin Givens (hopeful about replacement) Shelton, Mustipher, Barber, Hansard
Koa Farmer (feel good about replacement) Parsons
DeAndre Thompkins (feel good about replacement) Hamler, Dotson
Johnathan Thomas (feel good about replacement) Brown, Cain, Holmes
Kyle Vasey ? I don't know

Transfers
QB Tommy Stevens (feel good about replacement) as starter but weakens us at backup.
WR Juwan Johnson (feel good about replacement) Shorter, George,
WR Brandon Polk (feel good about replacement) Hippenhammer, Sullivan-Brown
CB Zech McPhearson (feel good about replacement) Johnson, Gordon
S Ayron Monroe (feel good about replacement) Brisker
TE Danny Dalton (feel good about replacement) Kuntz
OT Alex Gellerstedt (feel good about replacement) Holmes, Scruggs, Effner
LB Dae’Lun Darien (feel good about replacement) Brooks, Luketa, Smith Dixon
OT Sterling Jenkins (feel good about replacement) Holmes, Scruggs, Effner
S Isaiah Humphries (feel good about replacement) Wade, Brisker, Rudolph
DE Brelin Faison-Walden (feel good about replacement) Tarburton, Issac

 

[MacNit07]

I haven't been nearly as impressed with recent coaches, including Moorhead, as much as I've been the players they've had, particularly at running back and receiver (prior to last year). We are now recruiting as well as most teams in the Top 20. Our strength and conditioning program is obviously top notch. But I have yet to see evidence that we can game plan and out coach good teams on game day.

Hate to reiterate this, but OSU, MSU, and Michigan really are the indicators. When we regularly take 2 out of 3 a page will have been turned. This will take solid game plans and game-day decision-making. That is the difference when recruiting and player development are equal.

 

[MacNit07]

At a

I haven't been nearly as impressed with recent coaches, including Moorhead, as much as I've been the players they've had, particularly at running back and receiver (prior to last year). We are now recruiting as well as most teams in the Top 20. Our strength and conditioning program is obviously top notch. But I have yet to see evidence that we can game plan and out coach good teams on game day.

Hate to reiterate this, but OSU, MSU, and Michigan really are the indicators. When we regularly take 2 out of 3 a page will have been turned. This will take solid game plans and game-day decision-making. That is the difference when recruiting and player development are equal.

And Michigan State needs to be 3/4...last year’s debacle was what derailed what could have been a nice season.

 

[SUPERTODD]

What will he say when we start the season 5 - 0?

We haven’t played anyone will be the refrain.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

Moorhead did a nice job at PSU. No argument. How did "his" offense do this year at MSU?
Rahne did just fine at the Fiesta Bowl.
This season, just some small details....no Barkley(a generational pro player), impossible to calculate the impact of his loss on all other position players.......MG at TE, and a few pretty good WR. Rahne is in no way responsible for drops or the injury that severely limited Trace.
We'll see if the legend of Moorhead grows at MSU. If he's courting Tommy, he is already getting a tight sphincter.
Players make coaches look good.....or bad. I think it was Bear Bryant who said that a great coach "can take hisin and beat yourin and take yourin and beat hisin." I don't see any coaches out there that I would put in that category right now.

Three jump off the page for me: Kirk Ferentz, Chris Petersen and, although I don’t want to say it, Mark D’Antonio.

EDiT: “not wanting to say it” was an understatement. After posting, I couldn’t get the sick taste out of my mouth. But I think D’Antonio tops that list.

 

[NittanyPirate]

Any team that is not in the SEC and is a preseason top 10 is overrated. That's how fast they are in the south. In fact, my preseason top 15 is all SEC teams.

 

[Cold Smoke]

I haven't been nearly as impressed with recent coaches, including Moorhead, as much as I've been the players they've had, particularly at running back and receiver (prior to last year). We are now recruiting as well as most teams in the Top 20. Our strength and conditioning program is obviously top notch. But I have yet to see evidence that we can game plan and out coach good teams on game day.

Hate to reiterate this, but OSU, MSU, and Michigan really are the indicators. When we regularly take 2 out of 3 a page will have been turned. This will take solid game plans and game-day decision-making. That is the difference when recruiting and player development are equal.

The most critical game day decisions are made by the QB after the snap. If Clifford plays very well, we have a dangerous team. Can win any game on the schedule.

 

[RU31trap]

Much will depend on Sean Clifford. If he comes out of the gate with a few W's and the offense gains confidence the team will have a very good season. The defense is shaping up to be one of the best since Franklin taking over as HC and in my opinion potentially a top 10 defense in the nation. JMHO

 

[Raffycorn]

Three jump off the page for me: Kirk Ferentz, Chris Petersen and, although I don’t want to say it, Mark D’Antonio.

EDiT: “not wanting to say it” was an understatement. After posting, I couldn’t get the sick taste out of my mouth. But I think D’Antonio tops that list.

Over the last three years, Franklin’s teams are 5-2 against those three coaches - just FWIW.

 

[marshall23]

Three jump off the page for me: Kirk Ferentz, Chris Petersen and, although I don’t want to say it, Mark D’Antonio.

EDiT: “not wanting to say it” was an understatement. After posting, I couldn’t get the sick taste out of my mouth. But I think D’Antonio tops that list.

I certainly agree that the 3 you mentioned are good coaches. I'm not sure I would elevate them to the "Hisn and Yourin" category. But certainly Ferentz and D'Antonio seem to do more with less. Funny, have you ever peaked in to one of the Iowa FB Boards? Funny how fan bases are never satisfied.

 

[marshall23]

Over the last three years, Franklin’s teams are 5-2 against those three coaches - just FWIW.

That's a good point. However, PSU has a huge talent advantage over Michigan State and Iowa.

 

[marshall23]

I have yet to see a national sports writer that knows more about Penn State football than most of the rational posters on this board. I did a quick run down of who we lost and potential replacements. I broke it down by feel good, hopeful and, worried about their replacements. There were none that I was really worried about but, I'm a bit of an optimist. Overall, I'm feeling very good about this team going into 2019. Worried if any injuries at QB, OT, DT.

Left for the NFL
Miles Sanders (feel good about replacement) Slade, Brown, Cain, Holmes
Connor McGovern (feel good about replacement) Thorpe, Miranda
Shareef Miller (hopeful about replacement) Toney, Simmons, Oweh, Joseph
Amani Oruwariye (feel good about replacement)Castro-Fields, Johnson
Trace Mcsorley (feel good about replacement) Clifford
Ryan Bates (hopeful about replacement) Walker, ??
Nick Scott (hopeful about replacement) Sutherland, Wade
Kevin Givens (hopeful about replacement) Shelton, Mustipher, Barber, Hansard
Koa Farmer (feel good about replacement) Parsons
DeAndre Thompkins (feel good about replacement) Hamler, Dotson
Johnathan Thomas (feel good about replacement) Brown, Cain, Holmes
Kyle Vasey ? I don't know

Transfers
QB Tommy Stevens (feel good about replacement) as starter but weakens us at backup.
WR Juwan Johnson (feel good about replacement) Shorter, George,
WR Brandon Polk (feel good about replacement) Hippenhammer, Sullivan-Brown
CB Zech McPhearson (feel good about replacement) Johnson, Gordon
S Ayron Monroe (feel good about replacement) Brisker
TE Danny Dalton (feel good about replacement) Kuntz
OT Alex Gellerstedt (feel good about replacement) Holmes, Scruggs, Effner
LB Dae’Lun Darien (feel good about replacement) Brooks, Luketa, Smith Dixon
OT Sterling Jenkins (feel good about replacement) Holmes, Scruggs, Effner
S Isaiah Humphries (feel good about replacement) Wade, Brisker, Rudolph
DE Brelin Faison-Walden (feel good about replacement) Tarburton, Issac

People are putting a great deal of faith in Clifford, based on mop up duty. I think anytime you start a new QB who has virtually no meaningful experience at this level you have a huge ?

 

[Raffycorn]

That's a good point. However, PSU has a huge talent advantage over Michigan State and Iowa.

The advantage is stronger over Iowa than over Michigan State, but overall I agree.

On the other hand, Franklin or Ferentz don’t nearly have the blemish on their records that Dantonio does with his 2016 disaster. MSU in 2016 shouldn’t have really been any worse of a team than MSU in 2017 or 2018, and it was a disastrous coaching job of the highest level that that team went 3-9.

 

[marshall23]

I haven't been nearly as impressed with recent coaches, including Moorhead, as much as I've been the players they've had, particularly at running back and receiver (prior to last year). We are now recruiting as well as most teams in the Top 20. Our strength and conditioning program is obviously top notch. But I have yet to see evidence that we can game plan and out coach good teams on game day.

Hate to reiterate this, but OSU, MSU, and Michigan really are the indicators. When we regularly take 2 out of 3 a page will have been turned. This will take solid game plans and game-day decision-making. That is the difference when recruiting and player development are equal.

Just my opinion.....but if you are holding your breath to "regularly" beat 2 out of 3, I hope you are a very young man.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

Over the last three years, Franklin’s teams are 5-2 against those three coaches - just FWIW.

I know. And one was a blowout of Iowa. But looking at the teams those coaches have beaten, it’s hard to think of a coach who’s done more with less—other than perhaps our own late coach at various points.

The game, the media, the money and loads of others have changed what it means to be a marquee CFB coach. But just using Marshall23’s quote of Bear as setting the criteria, I don’t think there’s a better coach than the one we lost those two games to. Not a great face of the program, ok recruiter at a tougher sell program, but until CJF changes the pattern, he beats us with his and he’d definitely beat us with ours.

 

[marshall23]

The advantage is stronger over Iowa than over Michigan State, but overall I agree.

On the other hand, Franklin or Ferentz don’t nearly have the blemish on their records that Dantonio does with his 2016 disaster. MSU in 2016 shouldn’t have really been any worse of a team than MSU in 2017 or 2018, and it was a disastrous coaching job of the highest level that that team went 3-9.

I think teams like Iowa and Michigan State are more susceptible to a year where bad things snow ball, because they lack great depth in talent. I've argued for some time that there are many great coaches who labor their entire careers in anonymity. We look at the Saban's etc as great coaches.......and I often wonder, how many more games will Nick Saban win at Alabama this year than if Lane Kiffin were the head coach?
Coaches are teachers. Do we measure teachers by test results? I guess some do. However, what about the teachers who work with learning disabled kids etc.? Just saying there is a lot to consider when you label coaches.

 

[marshall23]

I know. And one was a blowout of Iowa. But looking at the teams those coaches have beaten, it’s hard to think of a coach who’s done more with less—other than perhaps our own late coach at various points.

The game, the media, the money and loads of others have changed what it means to be a marquee CFB coach. But just using Marshall23’s quote of Bear as setting the criteria, I don’t think there’s a better coach than the one we lost those two games to. Not a great face of the program, ok recruiter at a tougher sell program, but until CJF changes the pattern, he beats us with his and he’d definitely beat us with ours.

Something to consider.....and a reason why I think Ferentz is a very good coach.....what happened the week after PSU handed Iowa their collective asses?

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

I certainly agree that the 3 you mentioned are good coaches. I'm not sure I would elevate them to the "Hisn and Yourin" category. But certainly Ferentz and D'Antonio seem to do more with less. Funny, have you ever peaked in to one of the Iowa FB Boards? Funny how fan bases are never satisfied.

Fair enough.

No. I don’t go to other boards. But how could their fan base be satisfied? They have a great coach and a proud program that can’t stop playing bridesmaid and start playing bride. What kind of fans would be satisfied with that?

 

[Madsol]

People are putting a great deal of faith in Clifford, based on mop up duty. I think anytime you start a new QB who has virtually no meaningful experience at this level you have a huge ?

I agree somewhat, but also see a sea-change when it comes to QB play. The last two national championships have been won by freshmen QBs. Haskins was a first year starter and had a huge year and was a first round draft pick. Murray was a first year starter, won the Heisman, and was the first pick in the NFL draft. Now I believe these guys are the exception and not the rule when it comes to first time starters but IMHO it's time to raise the bar on expectations for first time starting QBs. This will be Clifford's 3rd year in the program. If he's not ready yet, likely he's never going to be ready. I'm excited to see what he can do.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

Something to consider.....and a reason why I think Ferentz is a very good coach.....what happened the week after PSU handed Iowa their collective asses?

Knocked off the team that handed us our collective a$$es!

 

[Thomas1945]

Moorhead did a nice job at PSU. No argument. How did "his" offense do this year at MSU?
Rahne did just fine at the Fiesta Bowl.
This season, just some small details....no Barkley(a generational pro player), impossible to calculate the impact of his loss on all other position players.......MG at TE, and a few pretty good WR. Rahne is in no way responsible for drops or the injury that severely limited Trace.
We'll see if the legend of Moorhead grows at MSU. If he's courting Tommy, he is already getting a tight sphincter.
Players make coaches look good.....or bad. I think it was Bear Bryant who said that a great coach "can take hisin and beat yourin and take yourin and beat hisin." I don't see any coaches out there that I would put in that category right now.

Not that it’s all that relevant, but that quote I do believe was actually said by Wally Butts the Georgia head coach describing Bryant. Butts also said “ An atheist in Alabama is someone who doesn’t believe in coach Bryant “.