Question for our Buckeye friends. What are your thoughts on Joe Paterno?
- Thread starter ChiTownLion
- Start date
Prove to me you didn't.
Exactly how would Paterno's reputation be tarnished by reporting what MM told him directly to the to police instead of senior administrators?
And before you say that he conspired with those administrators to do nothing...
- Conspiracy charges against C&S have been dropped
- MM testified that Paterno and others never told him to keep things quiet
- The prosecutor said that he found no evidence of a coverup
- If they wanted things kept quiet they wouldn't have reported what they were told to JS's employer who was a mandatory reporter.
This should have been part of my last response... hit the button ... I understand all he did to make Penn State what it is and he deserves the respect of a whole generation of Penn State and college football fans. However, just because he did a host of good things in the past doesn't mean that when confronted with something as unspeakable as child abuse in the "house that he built" he couldn't see his reputation being tarnished and he didn't know how or what to do so he chose to take the easy way out.
What was the easy way out? Die of lung cancer?
Seriously, this thread should have never gotten started.
Yeah- I have no problem with people arguing a point out (so long as they have facts to back them up and not just flippant opinion). That said, when did we transition from where you had to prove someone is guilty to a country where the accused instead now has to prove he is innocent?
I love the demands to prove a negative. It's almost impossible.
bwifan
Well-Known Member
Again troll I ask.... You have zero facts to support your opinion correct? If not please list your thought process and fill in the blanks backed up with facts and links to support your statement. I am more than willing to hear your side and thoughts, but would love to hear how you came to them other than I think "Joe overlooked JS because wins and the program were more important..." That is utter BS and has been proven so, unless you have some facts and links to show us the error's of our way... By all means back up your statement you put it here for all to see, now it's time to put up or shut up
Amen. And I would likewise argue that the folks (like our visiting friend here) who fabricate their own details and then present it as "supporting evidence" are at least equally offensive.
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Joe was one of the iconic college coaches of his era. His is a place alongside the giants of the game for generations to come.....Bryant, Hayes, Schembechler, Osborne, Bowden, Wilkinson, McKay, etc..... I take him at his word when he said, "This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more."
The manner in which his career came to an end was one of the great tragedies of modern sport, his legacy deserved a better ending.....
The manner in which his career came to an end was one of the great tragedies of modern sport, his legacy deserved a better ending.....
His legacy will be that he coached a long time and won a lot of games. That will be about the best that history will remember.
Many things about his legacy will not be recoverable, such as:
In July 2012, following the scandal, the NCAA vacated the 2011 Gerald R. Ford award given to Joe Paterno.
In 2010, the Maxwell Football Club of Philadelphia established the Joseph V. Paterno Award, to be awarded annually to the college football coach "who has made a positive impact on his university, his players and his community." Following the breaking of the scandal the following year, the award was discontinued by the club.
Also in 2010, the Big Ten Conference established the Stagg-Paterno Championship Trophy as the annual trophy to be awarded to the winner of the conference football championship. However, on November 14, 2011, the trophy name was changed to the Stagg Championship Trophy in light of the scandal.
Paterno was also nominated for the Presidential Medal of Freedom. However, in light of the scandal, United States Senators Pat Toomey and Bob Casey, Jr., as well as Representative Glenn Thompson withdrew their support of Paterno receiving the honor.
And, when all is said and done, some, if not all, will be recovered.
Because, I believe the testimony will prove that Joe was not involved with the Sandusky scandal, and that he was simply made a scape goat by those who used him as a sword and a shield.
In an alternate universe perhaps.
In this one, his name isn't going back on that trophy, the Maxwell Football Club is not going to re-establish the JVP award, and there will be no drive to nominate him for the Presidential Medal of Freedom. Not going to happen.
He let his children play at Sandusky's house. If he knew about Jerry, do you really think he would do that? Really? Oh wait, I forgot that winning football games was more important to him than anything including his own kids.
Joe was one of the great CFB coaches. Don't know what he knew about Sandusky. I do think that he stayed too long and that hurt PSU football.
Hey guys -- buckeye fan here, so obviously you hate me! I went to OSU in the 90s for undergrad and Med school, and saw many good games between OSU and Penn State. I always respected Paterno. I went to the game in Happy Valley where he first got the all time win lead. Sucked to lose, but that was nice to see in person.
I think Paterno did know that something was up when that grad student of his spoke to him, and I think he played hot potato and passed the information off as quickly as possible and gave the matter only token follow up. I think he did so because the matter is very uncomfortable to think about/talk about, and he really didn't want to deal with it. I don't think he broke the law, but I do think his firing was appropriate. The whole situation is just tragic.
So that answers the original poster's question. I may be wrong in my assessment. I have done no personal research on JVP, and have listened to what the media has said -- just like all of you did on tattoogate. It always shocks me when penn staters think that fans of opposing schools should know everything about this situation before passing judgement, yet you tend -- in my experience -- to judge other programs harshly without taking the time to research their scandals thoroughly.
I think the original question was a very good one. How can you change the opinions of others without taking the time to learn what they are? And getting excessively angry whenever anyone says something you don't believe to be true does not change other people's minds, it just causes them to stop listening to you. If you really want to change the perception of JVP, you need a different strategy.
I think Paterno did know that something was up when that grad student of his spoke to him, and I think he played hot potato and passed the information off as quickly as possible and gave the matter only token follow up. I think he did so because the matter is very uncomfortable to think about/talk about, and he really didn't want to deal with it. I don't think he broke the law, but I do think his firing was appropriate. The whole situation is just tragic.
So that answers the original poster's question. I may be wrong in my assessment. I have done no personal research on JVP, and have listened to what the media has said -- just like all of you did on tattoogate. It always shocks me when penn staters think that fans of opposing schools should know everything about this situation before passing judgement, yet you tend -- in my experience -- to judge other programs harshly without taking the time to research their scandals thoroughly.
I think the original question was a very good one. How can you change the opinions of others without taking the time to learn what they are? And getting excessively angry whenever anyone says something you don't believe to be true does not change other people's minds, it just causes them to stop listening to you. If you really want to change the perception of JVP, you need a different strategy.
Would like to say thanks to the small handful of Buckeyes who never bought into the media hysteria that "Joe knew and did nothing."
For the OSU fans who blame Joe for Jerry's crimes, I have a follow-up question:
What are your thoughts on Greg Schiano? How do the two situations compare, in your mind?
Thanks.
For the OSU fans who blame Joe for Jerry's crimes, I have a follow-up question:
What are your thoughts on Greg Schiano? How do the two situations compare, in your mind?
Thanks.
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I thought Paterno should have retired around 2005. Age had clearly caught up with him and didn't think he was taking an active part in the program. Towards the end Paterno seemed to be an out of touch figurehead. As for the Sandusky tragedy you can never underestimate how manipulative Sandusky was. Guy is a monster that used a youth program to molest children. Through all of those years he managed to conceal his behavior from staff and social workers. My thinking is after talking with McQueary and passing the information along to the campus police Paterno spoke with Sandusky. If nothing else to gauge the situation. He had known Sandusky for decades and even though Sandusky had been off of Paterno's staff for sometime the seriousness of the situation necessitated some sort of follow up. Unfortunately Sandusky left the impression that nothing was wrong with Paterno just as Sandusky had deceived everyone else. Even more importantly when provided the information the campus police did nothing to Sandusky. So my thinking is that the inaction by police coupled with the conversation I'm supposing the two had worked to convince Paterno everything was alright.
Johnson and Schiano are welcome additions who are a major reason why the Buckeyes have an elite defense. In my mind Meyer is shares the position at the top of the college football coaching ranks with Saban.
Johnson and Schiano are welcome additions who are a major reason why the Buckeyes have an elite defense. In my mind Meyer is shares the position at the top of the college football coaching ranks with Saban.
I agree with your thought on Joe An Sandusky I think he at least heard rumors but keep seeing cps use his home for foster kids an even adoptions an just figured it's been checked out on everything is ok
It has been said a thousand times that no one thought Sandusky was a child molester. Most people thought he should have been nominated for sainthood. Maybe people heard things but immediately those notions as impossible.
Obviously there is no proof Joe knew so people throw around the most powerful all knowing wizard of state college crap, but then why did Joe allow his grandchildren around Sandusky? Why wouldn't Joe have told his children not to use Jerry and Dotting as babysitters etc? I know most of the country doesn't like to think outside of what the media tells them but come on.
I just feel if Joe Paterno hadn't earned the benefit of doubt then the rest of us are doomed.
Obviously there is no proof Joe knew so people throw around the most powerful all knowing wizard of state college crap, but then why did Joe allow his grandchildren around Sandusky? Why wouldn't Joe have told his children not to use Jerry and Dotting as babysitters etc? I know most of the country doesn't like to think outside of what the media tells them but come on.
I just feel if Joe Paterno hadn't earned the benefit of doubt then the rest of us are doomed.
Okay. Paterno went through with the initial follow up by reporting the incident to the authorities. Moreover as you pointed out he took the additional step of requesting that Sandusky be barred from university facilities. Those were major moves. Paterno took the inaction by the university and police to be that they had conducted the proper investigation and discovered nothing wrong. Reasonable enough. Some people and especially the sensationalists in the media seem to think that Paterno should have went all "Murder She Wrote" and uncovered the crimes himself.
What I said in my initial post and what I have no proof of is that Paterno likely spoke to Sandusky about the situation. My gut belief is that discussion coupled with the inaction by the authorities lead Paterno to believe nothing was wrong. Point blank I don't think Paterno knew what happened.
On a side note I remember the first time I heard about Sandusky was the commentators talking about him during a bowl game against TAMU{?}. Want to say the PSU defense pitched a shutout. They were talking about how Sandusky had been approached for coaching positions across the country but turned them down in large part because of the charity work he was doing. At the time I thought that made for a very nice story. Sick.
Didn't mean to be craggy, just cranky this morning.
Thanks again for your reply. Just FWIW: Paterno and Sandusky were most definitely not friendly, and it's very unlikely that the two men spoke about this (or anything).
Yet many here have gone on to say that Joe allowed Sandusky to baby-sit his children/grandchildren. Doesn't sound like something that a normal person would allow with someone he wasn't on speaking terms with.
That Joe's kids were social with Jerry's adopted/foster kids is a fact not in dispute. That Jay's kids have been is likewise.
Of course, you also claimed that the wins would not be restored as well. Didn't you?
Nope, never did. But I get why you would want that to be the case. Don't let that fact get in the way of your spin.
Of course you didn't Asshat. You "joined" this forum 5 months ago. Many of your asshat brethren insisted that the wins would not be restored. They were wrong and you can be equally wrong in your opinions.
Why do you think he is trolling? A question was asked and he answered. Just because he doesn't feel as you do doesn't mean he's trolling. That word is overly and wrongly used. I don't share his opinion, but I appreciate that he answered it the way he felt. Or did you really think you weren't going to get answers like this?!?
I understand your frustration resulting in name-calling. When you cannot refute the facts that I stated, you resort to attacks. The damages to Joe's legacy that I listed will not be changed by some lawsuit, they are different from the wins that were restored.
Sure! I practice in Dayton, Ohio -- no clinical research, private practice only! And in response to the poster who talked about Schiano, I don't know much about him but if he truly witnessed the assault of a young man I find that devestatingly sad for him and the child.
Unfortunately, our society loves to assign blame. Was any of this Paterno's fault? Absolutely not. There was only one sicko here, Sandusky. But captains go down with their ships. If it makes any of you feel any better, though, I bet Paterno would have willingly let his name be dragged through the mud if he thought it would help the fight against child molestation. I do truly believe he was a great man.
There were no winners in this situation, only losers. I'm sure that you all had to deal with OSU fans being jerks and gloating that this situation occurred, and I apologize for that portion of our fan base. They are small but vocal. I am so sad for Paterno. Our world has too few role models, and he was a great one. But I wouldn't worry too much about his legacy. I'm sure he is happy now.
Actually, you insisted that the wins would not be restored. You just did it under a different user name.
Feel free to show your proof of that. Otherwise you are just making false accusations. It's ok to admit you are wrong, which you most definitely are. But being wrong never has stopped you in the past, why should it now?
