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Questions for the baseball fans here: Will the Pirate win again this season??

bcspsu said:
The thing about the pitching is, other than Keller and maybe Falter, Jones and Skenes will not have pitched as many innings as they will if they actually pitch into September. And without those two in the starting rotation or being effective, the Pirates probably will finish in last place in their division. It doesn't help that two of their five starting pitchers who started the season are injured, and one of them probably won't pitch again this season.
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I agree. IMHO, the bullpen is to baseball as the offensive line is to football. By that I mean they are a huge key to success but don't get the credit. A good bullpen allows the skipper to pull the starter and feel confident that they can still win that game. And that lowered stress on the starting rotation keeps they healthy and fresh as you get into the "dog days" of August and early September. Today, the teams with better bullpens are pulling their starters as he starts to go through the lineup for the third time. Typically, that is in the 6th inning or so (18+ batters).
 
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Obliviax said:
I agree. IMHO, the bullpen is to baseball as the offensive line is to football. By that I mean they are a huge key to success but don't get the credit. A good bullpen allows the skipper to pull the starter and feel confident that they can still win that game. And that lowered stress on the starting rotation keeps they healthy and fresh as you get into the "dog days" of August and early September. Today, the teams with better bullpens are pulling their starters as he starts to go through the lineup for the third time. Typically, that is in the 6th inning or so (18+ batters).
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That’s pretty much what the Pirates’ manager does even if the starter has been unhittable. The only starter whom he really ever let’s go into the very late innings is Keller.
 
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bcspsu said:
That’s pretty much what the Pirates’ manager does even if the starter has been unhittable. The only starter whom he really ever let’s go into the very late innings is Keller.
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Thanks for that. i don't follow the Bucs like I used to. My guess is that he's keeping the stress down and not playing for 2024 but setting up 2025+. He's got two Cy Young potential starters that are 22ish. As long as they stay healthy, they'll be with the Bucs for five more years until they go to the Yankees/Dodgers/Giants/BoSox/Mets.
 
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Obliviax said:
Thanks for that. i don't follow the Bucs like I used to. My guess is that he's keeping the stress down and not playing for 2024 but setting up 2025+. He's got two Cy Young potential starters that are 22ish. As long as they stay healthy, they'll be with the Bucs for five more years until they go to the Yankees/Dodgers/Giants/BoSox/Mets.
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I fully expect Skenes’ Pirates’ career to follow the same path as Cole’s, which is unfortunate. I don’t know about Jones; maybe he’ll be like Keller and sign a long term contract. Right now, Keller is one of the better staters in the NL, so the Pirates made a prudent move with him.
 
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Obliviax said:
I agree. IMHO, the bullpen is to baseball as the offensive line is to football. By that I mean they are a huge key to success but don't get the credit. A good bullpen allows the skipper to pull the starter and feel confident that they can still win that game. And that lowered stress on the starting rotation keeps they healthy and fresh as you get into the "dog days" of August and early September. Today, the teams with better bullpens are pulling their starters as he starts to go through the lineup for the third time. Typically, that is in the 6th inning or so (18+ batters).
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Yep, it’s a long season and as in every sport, avoiding injuries is a big issue. And teams like the Pirates don’t have the debt to handle very many injuries.

I slso think the sports guys are pushing hope because as soon as people give up on the Pirates the ratings for their tv shows, radio broadcasts, social media accounts plummet. They need the Pirates to stay in the race as there are only so many Steeler stories they can do all summer long.

But there is some truth to it. If Reynolds’s, Cruze, Hayes, Cutch, and a couple others start hitting they could get a playoff spot. And in a short five game series having three top starters is key. And even in seven game series the games are a bit more spread out allowing managers to use their best more often.
 
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bcspsu said:
Since the 2022 season, the Pirates actually have fared fairly well against them considering the disparity in payrolls. In fact, in 2022, the Pirates went 5-1 against them, including sweeping them in LA. Some teams just have other teams' numbers in sports.
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Yeah the Dodgers don't play up to their usual standards vs the Pirates. Also, the Dodgers' hitting can go into these prolonged funks, the Reds did it to them about a week ago and other teams also so for the Dodgers to not be hitting isn't a shocker. The Pirates pitching is good but when the Dodgers play up to their capability with Betts, Ohtani, Freeman and Will Smith they will light up any team.
 
ryoder1 said:
Yeah the Dodgers don't play up to their usual standards vs the Pirates. Also, the Dodgers' hitting can go into these prolonged funks, the Reds did it to them about a week ago and other teams also so for the Dodgers to not be hitting isn't a shocker. The Pirates pitching is good but when the Dodgers play up to their capability with Betts, Ohtani, Freeman and Will Smith they will light up any team.
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Of course, I attended last night's game and the Dodgers on cue scored 11 runs. Our "great" manager took Falter out after he gave up a leadoff homer in the 5th inning, I repeat the 5th inning, to make the score 5-4, and of course the horrible middle inning relief pitchers did their usual.
 
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GR-R-REAT shutout win tonight against the Twins
Fail Tony The Tiger GIF by Frosted Flakes
 
OldiesAtTheGaff said:
Game was humming along. 4-4 after 9 innings. I have no words to describe what happened in the top of the 10th.
Jerry Seinfeld GIF by hero0fwar
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Their bullpen was depleted because of previous misuse and overuse. Also, because of injuries, they’re short on starters, and even today, it was predetermined that Jones wasn’t going to pitch much. With that said, if the home plate umpire hadn’t blown a call in the first inning that couldn’t be reviewed on a play in which the Twins scored their third run, the Pirates would’ve won that game 4-3.
 
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The Spin Meister said:
Yep, it’s a long season and as in every sport, avoiding injuries is a big issue. And teams like the Pirates don’t have the debt to handle very many injuries.

I slso think the sports guys are pushing hope because as soon as people give up on the Pirates the ratings for their tv shows, radio broadcasts, social media accounts plummet. They need the Pirates to stay in the race as there are only so many Steeler stories they can do all summer long.

But there is some truth to it. If Reynolds’s, Cruze, Hayes, Cutch, and a couple others start hitting they could get a playoff spot. And in a short five game series having three top starters is key. And even in seven game series the games are a bit more spread out allowing managers to use their best more often.
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Lots of ifs…Cutch has not been good for almost a decade…fieldng and fundamentals are seriously flawed…and overall ERA is middling.
 
MacNit2.0 said:
Also in last place.
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True, but none of the division outside of Milwaukee is about 500. Once we get to the 4th of July, we'll know if they should go after it or give up. 6 vs the Reds and Cards, 3 each against the Braves, Rays and Rockies. need to win 12 or more of the 21 and the Reds have Yanks, Sox and Brewers before 7/4 so I could see them dropping back a bit.
 
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bison13 said:
True, but none of the division outside of Milwaukee is about 500. Once we get to the 4th of July, we'll know if they should go after it or give up. 6 vs the Reds and Cards, 3 each against the Braves, Rays and Rockies. need to win 12 or more of the 21 and the Reds have Yanks, Sox and Brewers before 7/4 so I could see them dropping back a bit.
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The Pirates need to do what the Reds just did, when they had a seven game winning streak. They just haven't been able to string many wins together for various reasons; it's just been a season of going 4-2 in a stretch then going 2-4 in the next stretch, which isn't going to cut it.

The last time that the Pirates finished above .500 was in 2018 when they had a ten game winning streak before the All Star Break. Without that winning streak, they never would've finished above .500. Like that 2018 team, this team needs one of those long winning streaks to finish above .500 to compensate for their inconsistency.
 
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bison13 said:
True, but none of the division outside of Milwaukee is about 500. Once we get to the 4th of July, we'll know if they should go after it or give up. 6 vs the Reds and Cards, 3 each against the Braves, Rays and Rockies. need to win 12 or more of the 21 and the Reds have Yanks, Sox and Brewers before 7/4 so I could see them dropping back a bit.
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What's good is that the Pirates already have played three games each against the Phillies, Braves and Dodgers, two series against the Brewers, and their series against the Orioles.
 
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bcspsu said:
What's good is that the Pirates already have played three games each against the Phillies, Braves and Dodgers, two series against the Brewers, and their series against the Orioles.
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true they do get a little easier schedule coming up, Rockies, Mets, CWS etc. Need a couple bats to get hot to carry them.

I dont know if they can win 7 in a row but 7 out of 10 a couple time would be nice.

Starting with the Cards tonight they have 31 games until the AS break. They need to win at least 18 of those (this is doable with CWS and Mets as part of the schedule). That would put them 2 games over 500 at the break and in the conversation of the wild card.
 
bison13 said:
true they do get a little easier schedule coming up, Rockies, Mets, CWS etc. Need a couple bats to get hot to carry them.

I dont know if they can win 7 in a row but 7 out of 10 a couple time would be nice.

Starting with the Cards tonight they have 31 games until the AS break. They need to win at least 18 of those (this is doable with CWS and Mets as part of the schedule). That would put them 2 games over 500 at the break and in the conversation of the wild card.
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They're going to have to do something to solidy that fragile bullpen regarding the middle inning relief pitchers. Because they really only let their starters except for Keller pitch only five or six innings, they use and abuse their bullpen arms to an absurd extent and rely on them way too much. I expect that very soon, they will be trading some minor leaguers for a couple of veteran middle inning relief pitchers. Really, they probably need to do this immediately.
 
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bcspsu said:
They're going to have to do something to solidy that fragile bullpen regarding the middle inning relief pitchers. Because they really only let their starters except for Keller pitch only five or six innings, they use and abuse their bullpen arms to an absurd extent and rely on them way too much. I expect that very soon, they will be trading some minor leaguers for a couple of veteran middle inning relief pitchers. Really, they probably need to do this immediately.
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Brebbia or Banks on the CWS can probably be had for a lower level prospect. Both have higher ERA's but the do not walk people and have high K rates.

Kopech has a higher K rate but walks a lot more too, he will command a bit more on the market as a closer. Same with Estevez on the Angels though hes been hit around a bit this past week.

Nardi on the Marlins gave us two wins in March but he's been much better since then, so he's worth a look, same with Bender

They should try to get at least 1 of those guys before the break
 
bison13 said:
Brebbia or Banks on the CWS can probably be had for a lower level prospect. Both have higher ERA's but the do not walk people and have high K rates.

Kopech has a higher K rate but walks a lot more too, he will command a bit more on the market as a closer. Same with Estevez on the Angels though hes been hit around a bit this past week.

Nardi on the Marlins gave us two wins in March but he's been much better since then, so he's worth a look, same with Bender

They should try to get at least 1 of those guys before the break
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Yeah, the White Sox are an obvious trade partner because that team needs to be totally rebuilt and they pobably need to restock their minor league system. They'd probably be willing to trade any middle inning relief pitcher for not much, sort of what the Pirates have done in recent years. Regardless, the Pirates middle inning relief situation is totally untenable right now and must be rectified.

Now, the real question is whether this organization is going to be willing to trade one or more of its better minor leaguers for a veteran hitter or two or a starter like a Quintana from the Mets.

One surprise team that may be looking to make trades for the future is the Astros. It's seems as if their window has closed and they're going to have to reload or rebuild.
 
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bison13 said:
true they do get a little easier schedule coming up, Rockies, Mets, CWS etc. Need a couple bats to get hot to carry them.

I dont know if they can win 7 in a row but 7 out of 10 a couple time would be nice.

Starting with the Cards tonight they have 31 games until the AS break. They need to win at least 18 of those (this is doable with CWS and Mets as part of the schedule). That would put them 2 games over 500 at the break and in the conversation of the wild card.
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Get over .500 and go from there…little faith…Pirates fundamentals are horrendous and have been that way for decades
 
bcspsu said:
Yeah, the White Sox are an obvious trade partner because that team needs to be totally rebuilt and they pobably need to restock their minor league system. They'd probably be willing to trade any middle inning relief pitcher for not much, sort of what the Pirates have done in recent years. Regardless, the Pirates middle inning relief situation is totally untenable right now and must be rectified.

Now, the real question is whether this organization is going to be willing to trade one or more of its better minor leaguers for a veteran hitter or two or a starter like a Quintana from the Mets.
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Pirates should trade a young pitcher for a bevy of prospects from Baltimore…had the chance to do that last year and passed (inexplicably)…that is the Pirates…professional sports’ worst franchise.
 
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MacNit2.0 said:
Pirates should trade a young pitcher for a bevy of prospects from Baltimore…had the chance to do that last year and passed (inexplicably)…that is the Pirates…professional sports’ worst franchise.
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Frankly, I'm tired of them trading established MLB players like Cole, Taillon, Bell, Musgrove, etc., for propects, most of whom never develop into anything; I've seen enough of that. At some point, you have to start to play to win now than worry about the future. The Pirates now have enough high end prospects, including three minor league starting pitchers, whom they can use to get established MLB players who actually can help the MLB team now rather than worrying about constantly restocking their minor league teams.

Last season, the NL team that made it to the World Series finished with a grand total of six more wins than the Pirates, and that team plays in the same division as the Dodgers. The Pirates play in a mediocre to below average division with hardly any big spending teams that is there for the taking if they make some shrewd moves.
 
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MacNit2.0 said:
Pirates should trade a young pitcher for a bevy of prospects from Baltimore…had the chance to do that last year and passed (inexplicably)…that is the Pirates…professional sports’ worst franchise.
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Yes, the Baltimore prospects are ready for MLB, just blocked by other good young players. Can have had Coby Mayo, Kjersted, etc for Keller.
 
The Spin Meister said:
T

They are not trading Keller……
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That was my point. Why now would you trade a proven MLB starting pitcher who most likely is going to be selected to his second consecutive All Star team and may be a candidate for the Cy Young Award for an unproven minor leaguer? The Pirates need to get away from that. They also signed Keller to a long term contract, so he'll be a bargain if he keeps doing what he's been doing.
 
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bison13 said:
That was the trade offer last year, Orioles wanted him, and PIttsburgh could have had two young position starters for him
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And they turned it down. They aren’t trading Kellie or Reynolds.

It’s Nut balls MO……keep one if two good players to keep fans happy and hopeful. Then trade off anyone that deserves good pay.
 
bcspsu said:
That was my point. Why now would you trade a proven MLB starting pitcher who most likely is going to be selected to his second consecutive All Star team and may be a candidate for the Cy Young Award for an unproven minor leaguer? The Pirates need to get away from that. They also signed Keller to a long term contract, so he'll be a bargain if he keeps doing what he's been doing.
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Keller is their #1 but I would have traded Keller for Joey Ortiz, Kjerstad and the Round 1 pick like what they gave MIlwaukee, thats basically what was offered last year. Kjerstad could be the starting RF for the next 10 years and Ortiz would start at 2B or 3B as much as Hayes is out. Two guys who are better than anything the Pirates have at those spots by a mile.
 
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