thanks for the responses, I'm with the defending National Champion always getting the #1 seed as long as a full season was wrestled. It seems strange otherwise
Remaining undefeated wrestlers (as of Jan. 19)
- Thread starter dmm53
- Start date
good point, My opinion is Cruz should be #1 seed...he is the defending National Champion without a blemish on a full season.
So then what if Tomasello were undefeated? Returning national champ with a more difficult schedule and more quality wins.
Manmythlegend had asked a question, and I answered it by merely stating the facts. That being said I do agree with you that Mark should be the 1 seed being unbeaten and last years champ, however we know by rule that previous years results have no baring on seeding so that rules that justification out. Furthermore, I also obviously agree with you that coaches rankings are subjective, any type of rankings are always subjective, I don't think anyone would argue against that. However, unfortunately by the rule they are part of the criteria for seeding, so by rule, that is how you can justify Valencia getting the 1 seed. Again, only stating the facts.
RPI or some subjectivity could be entered via 'ducking' or not taking advantage of a matchup! Woudn't that be a fun opening to a ongoing debate.
1) Head-to-head competition — 25 percent
2) Quality wins — 20 percent
3) CR — 15 percent
4) Results against common opponents — 10 percent
5) RPI — 10 percent
6) Qualifying event placement — 10 percent
7) Win % — 10 percent
-- Nothing for #1.
-- For #2, Hall has #4 Kutler (2x), #5 Amine, #6 Jordan (and could get him again), #12 Lydy, #18 Finesilver, and #20 Sebastian (may get him again at B1G's). Valencia has #4 Kutler, #5 Amine, #6 Jordan (2x), #7 Lujan (2x), #9 Subjeck, #10 Mejias, and #11 Kocer (2x). He could get Subjeck again at Pac-12's. Advantage slightly to Valencia.
-- For #3, right now, it's Valencia
-- For #4, it's a wash.
-- For #5, right now, it's Hall...and should stay that way through the tournament.
-- For #6, unknown...both have to win their tournament for this to be a wash.
-- For #7, it's a wash.
Right now, by the criteria, by the slightest of margins, it's Valencia, with a slightly tougher schedule (#4, #5, #6 2x, #7 2x, #9, #10, #11 2x, vs #4 2x, #5, #6, #12, #18, #20). If Hall wins the B1G's and the Coaches Ranking flips, Hall should be #1 Seed.
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Thank you for making it so clear Roar, I always value and appreciate your input.
Question about that: are each of those scores as is, or normalized?
Example: Win %. Let's say Wrestler A is 18-2, Wrestler B is 16-4. Do they get 9 and 8 pts, or 10 and 8.9 pts? (8 / 90% = 8.9)
Asking because I have seen category scores normalized in other (business) situations.
I dislike normalizing because each score is now graded on a different curve, which defeats weighting factors. But it is a common practice.
Added more info to my post above (it's post #46) after Dwayne and E-J's posts.
El-Jefe, regarding your question, as I understand it, there's no "normalizing". Imagine this as a 100 point opportunity, first one to 51 points has the majority. If there's a HTH match-up, winner gets 25 points (see 25% criteria above), whichever guy has more Quality Wins gets 20 points, whoever's highest in the Coaches Ranking gets 15 points, and so on.
Remember, that's as I understand it...if someone has additional info, I'd like to hear it.
El-Jefe, regarding your question, as I understand it, there's no "normalizing". Imagine this as a 100 point opportunity, first one to 51 points has the majority. If there's a HTH match-up, winner gets 25 points (see 25% criteria above), whichever guy has more Quality Wins gets 20 points, whoever's highest in the Coaches Ranking gets 15 points, and so on.
Remember, that's as I understand it...if someone has additional info, I'd like to hear it.
If Tomasello was healthy all season and went undefeated with that incredible schedule of Lee, Suriano during regular and Big Tens....WOW. You put me in tough position because it would feel to me that Tomasello deserves the #1 seed in that hypothetical because he is a returning champ at this very same weight class. In the End However, I would have to put personal feelings aside and ALWAYS give the first seed to a Returning Champ at same weight from previous year who is undefeated after a full season. That is just my opinion, being the returning National Champion should be taken into consideration as a tie breaker for #1 Seed.
Sorry. I meant Snyder. I knew that. Just typed the wrong name.Not Coon....
Article on the disappearance of undefeated wrestlers:
https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/6112238-what-happened-to-all-the-undefeated-wrestlers
https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/6112238-what-happened-to-all-the-undefeated-wrestlers
They can list that as a loss, but that's only a technicality. No reasonable person counts that.
He may be a returning national champ, but he's not a returning national champ from last year. If you have to order them, and there are two returning national champs who won at the same weight then the most recent would be first, followed by the next if they were both undefeated.
1. Cruz
2. Tomasello
Tomasella is fantastic, but he hasn't won a national championship in years. Personally, I think once a year goes by and you haven't won a championship that benefit of the doubt gets removed. As far as I'm concerned Tomasello doesn't get the benefit of the doubt, he won a national championship 3 years ago.
*Unless you took a redshirt.
Interesting discussion. "Body of work", current year, is all that's supposed to matter.
I pretty much agree. I know there are returning national champs that didn't win last year and I look at it like they did not defend their title. If you don't defend your title then you are A champ but you aren't THE champ. If a returning national champ is undefeated I think they should get the #1 seed at NCAAs.
Probably because Moore was a competitor at the weight Cassar won in USA junior trails?
IIRC, Moore was not in the bracket the year Cassar won the world team spot, but he was in the bracket the year Cassar got hurt and injury defaulted out without them ever wrestling.
Suriano is still undefeated since he defaulted before stepping on the mat. It would be ridiculous if the seeding committee rewards him for defaulting out. But they might just do that. He might get the #2 behind Cruz.
I guess Suriano was there waiting for Lee and Tomasello at the duals and they didn’t show. So they can’t complain too much.
I believe the seeding at nationals will be 1. Cruz, 2. NATO 3. Lee 4. Suriano..... even through he is unbeaten, he goes to nationals as the Big Ten 6th place finisher.
I also think 157 is going to be interesting.... 1. Hidlay 2. Jordan 3. Nolf 4. KemDog The Jordan pin will help Jason in the long run!
So you're saying Nolf should be going into NCAAs with 4 losses?
Coon goes down this past weekend. There are only 10 undefeated guys left at 6 weights. Penn State has 3. No other team has more than 1. After NCAAs there will be at most 6 wrestlers left. In all likelihood, the Hodge will come from that group. Perhaps the most likely are Retherford, IMar, Nickal, Hall, Cruz, and Valencia (in that order if I had to bet) -- Valencia being the only one that hasn't already won at least one title.
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