Basketball REPORT: ND in talks with Shrewsberry
- Thread starter Richie O
- Start date
Why? I don't doubt you but as someone who has only been to BJC to use the RR on Football game days, what are the specific issues with the basketball facilities? I thought the BJC was state of the art when built.
Sorry, dumb statement. A lot of PSU alums and fans are not up on the Basketball situation simply because basketball has not been very good, men or ladies. Now that they have/had a decent team, there is more interest. That's the way it works in sports. I keep hearing that the BB program does not have good facilities, and I am not disputing that, but asking what facilities need an upgrade does not seem like an unreasonable question. The fact that you can't or won't answer it, makes me wonder if you know what your talking about, or if your just being, as Joe would say, cute.
The Jordan Center is a product of its time. It opened in 1996, designed a few years before that. That big arena style was the popular one. if it had been built 10 years later it would have been smaller and people might like it more. When people say facilities need to be upgraded, it is not clear what they mean. If they mean that they want whole arena to go, that is about atmosphere, not inadequate facilities. That's just not happening within the next 10 years, and many schools play in 1990s-era arenas.
As for actual facilities that can be upgraded, I am all but certain that both DeChellis and Chambers pushed for and got improvements during their tenures. So my question is where are we still in serious need of upgrades? and the next question is how much money and time would it cost to do it?
Last edited:
I don't see Rec Hall as something that can be renovated. It's an old building that has some inherent structural limitations. Assuming you could totally gut it and effectively start from scratch with a reasonable budget, you still have limited space for training and support facilities that are now standard for any program that aspires to be something. Space for concessions and fan amenities that are now expected is also limited. The location may be desirable and there may be some appeal to the smaller environment, but the counter to that is a limited, dated facility that suggests the school and its fans just aren't that interested.
i dont totally agree that nothing can be done. It is almost 100 years old now. If they did a total tear down and rebuild, replacing it with a 9,000-10,000 seat arena that kind of looks the same, that would be great.
It appears as though a 10,000 seat facility would make more sense for both basketball and wrestling. Maybe something like this:
Jones is an idiot. But all he is reporting is that Schrewsberry is talking with Notre Dame. Not really breaking news here. We all knew that would happened after the season.
Be more specific, you are sounding like Commando. I keep hearing facilities, but no one can be specific. I don't doubt you, but what needs upgraded?
he followed it up with "the top 5 reasons Shrewsberry would go to ND" using his own floated rumor as the basis for his own follow up article. If he is right, fine, but we will see
Can't they just remodel/reconfigure the seating in the BJC if that's an issue?
LOL....how in the world is he a PSU beat writer? Who reads his garbage? Is he just targeting ND and PItt fans? Doesn't seem like a great strategy to stay employed to me.
The BJC may be tooo big but it’s not going away. Could it be renovated in some way to make it more exciting on normal game days? Maybe. But just putting tarps over unused seats is dumb and looks like an admission of failure. Is there a way to install movable seating and moveable walls to reconfigure seating?
Other facilities….How are the locker rooms…..do they need upgraded? Or training rooms, video centers, nutritional support, medical facilities. I have no idea how ours compare but since this building was designed and built about 30 years ago it is likely considerable improvements could be made.
Other facilities….How are the locker rooms…..do they need upgraded? Or training rooms, video centers, nutritional support, medical facilities. I have no idea how ours compare but since this building was designed and built about 30 years ago it is likely considerable improvements could be made.
i think locker rooms were upgraded in 2020.
I have not attended a game there but I have been told by those who have, that it is one of the great basketball venues in America.It appears as though a 10,000 seat facility would make more sense for both basketball and wrestling. Maybe something like this:
I say this fully acknowledging that I am not a huge/experienced college basketball aficionado, but is the BJC too big because it is too big, or is it too big because the team has not been very good. In other words, if we had a good competitive program every year, would the fans start showing up?
i think it's too big for the region. It doesn't sell out for a lot of things
Ratings aren't as important as you'd think for TV contracts. What matters is households/subscribers in the market. If the TV companies get you on the basic/lower tier, every subscriber pays regardless of whether or not they are watching that channel or not.
With a good product on the court, I think it will frequently be nearly full, if not sold out.
Look at the end of the 2019-2020 season:
Sat, 1/18 vs OSU - 14,785 (98%)
Wed, 1/29 vs IU - 7,656 (51%)
Sat, 2/8 vs MN - 15,261 (>100%)
Sat, 2/15 vs NW - 14,202 (95%)
Tue, 2/18 vs ILL - 9,506 (63%)
Wed, 2/26 vs RU - 8,345 (55%)
Tue, 3/3 vs MSU - 13,437 (89%)
The weekend games during that stretch were basically sold out, the weeknight games weren't bad and when MSU came to town the place filled up.
I suggest that the fans are willing to respond to a good product.
People will come if they win,, and win consistently,, no matter where the arena is located.. I like Rec Hall only for the intimidation factor as fans are right on top of you,, and the acoustics help make 5k sound VERY loud..
the last time it was always sold out was '95 and we finished #2 in the conference. I guess it could happen again. i don't know. there have been a lot of years in between where it looks empty
found this:
Notre Dame has long accepted the trade-off of keeping its football independence. The Irish understand they’re making less money on their own than they would if they joined a conference.
It’s a reality Notre Dame seems willing to live with even as the Big Ten and SEC are poised to push $70 million per school in annual media rights distributions in a few years and could reportedly approach $100 million by the end of the decade. But not without a significant increase in its own revenue itself, apparently.
Notre Dame would remain independent if it can secure an annual payout of at least $75 million in its next television deal, according to a report from CBS Sports’ Dennis Dodd. The school’s contract with NBC runs through 2025 and pays an average of $15 million per year, though Dodd reports it’s a back-loaded deal and is now giving Notre Dame $22 million.
Going to $75 million would be a more than 300 percent increase of the current $22 million payout from NBC, which has been Notre Dame’s TV partner since 1991. Is that large a jump realistic? It’s feasible, per Dodd, if NBC can secure “shoulder programming” from another Power Five conference to supplement Notre Dame telecasts and add to its college football inventory.
The Big 12 is a “strong option” to fill that need, Dodd reports. Its current media rights deal with FOX and ESPN also expires after the 2025 season. Incoming commissioner Brett Yormark said the league is open to all bidders. The Big Ten was previously reported to be an NBC target and still could fit. It is expected to announce a new TV contract in the coming weeks with FOX as the primary broadcast partner, but per Dodd, is still seeking other networks to air a smaller portion of its games.
Dodd reports NBC negotiations are expected to extend across the next two or three weeks.
All told, it sounds a bit like an ultimatum. But one wonders if Notre Dame would truly make the move to a conference immediately upon learning a month from now that $75 million per year from NBC is unattainable, if that’s what the network decides.
Notre Dame’s football games are a TV commodity that would presumably have other interested bidders. The ACC’s viability as a home for its non-football sports and the next format for the College Football Playoff are also factors in independence’s viability, among other things.
No schools have left the ACC since UCLA and USC announced their move to the Big Ten June 30 and set tremors through college athletics. Its media rights deal runs through 2036 and could cost a full member more than $300 million to buy out at this point in the contract.
The CFP, meanwhile, said this winter it will not alter its four-team format before the end of its 12-year contract with ESPN, which runs through 2025. A new format would need to be proposed and approved before media rights negotiations can begin.
Notre Dame has the leverage with any conferences interested in adding it (all of them, surely) to wait and see how playoff expansion, the ACC’s future and other factors. But money is a key one with that cost of independence trade-off becoming harder to ignore in the wake of the Big Ten’s imminent new contract. And it seems the Irish could learn a lot about their future financial prospects with NBC before long.
The BJC for one. It needs a major update since it was built in 1996. The CLE arena has had two major updates since it was built in 1994. Lighting, Sound, Seating, Parking, Food, all need updates. I have never been in the locker rooms but can bet that these need updating as well. As PSU gets into more portal players, it is likely a potential portal player played there as a visitor.
Rec Hall is not a Big 10 caliber basketball arena period. Even Northwestern just renovated Walsh-Ryan arena, which, even before the renovations, was more of a Big 10 caliber arena than Rec Hall.
I think even in the best of circumstances where Penn State is a perennial top 25 program, the BJC is too big. The BJC might be filled for a big game on a Saturday on occasion, but midweek games are just going to be tough for many fans who are not in State College to attend.
I'm of the opinion that Rec Hall should be torn down and rebuilt. The BJC is still there for the occasional huge basketball game on a Saturday, concerts, and THON. A rebuilt Rec Hall would get the bulk of the basketball, wrestling, and volleyball games.
Renovate the BJC so it can go bigger or smaller without drapes. Surely someone could design that. Give it the possibility of 4 different levels of seating.
Any one on this board try to deal with parking at Rec Hall. It was and still is a nightmare. Obviously mistakes were made in the design of BJC but I don't ever see us going back to Rec Hall. Any of you that have ever tried to get out of the parking garage after a game will probably agree with me. Besides, I have heard from our former coach that the other support facilities such as weight room, office areas, etc... are now superior to most. If you don't agree you can take it up with him. I only wish that the administration had listened to him when they were designing the BJC. They didn't.
I took my son to a PSU basketball camp about 18 years ago. The facilities were very impressive back then. Cherry lockers, leather seats, special air circulating drawer for sneakers, film room, weight room, jacuzzis, nourishment area, game room, etc. Of course a practice gym. I'm not saying it's up to snuff with other BiG schools but it was pretty nice. Obviously not nearly as big as the Lasch Building but there are only a dozen players.
You can’t use the BJC just for the occasional big event. Way to much upkeep and overhead. If a new Rec Hall is built or a separate arena the BJC would have to come down….which isn’t going to happen.
Are there additional uses for the BJC ….can the market handle more major concerts? Do they currently use it for non University functions like a convention center in most towns? A builders show, a RV show, consumer electronics shows, an NRA gun selling show……ok through that one in for shock value…..but if they can monetize it with other uses than a smaller arena may be feasible. But is the central Pa market large enough to sustain such activity?
Last edited:
These Shrewsberry negotiations are Kraft's first big test. He needs to retain him. I believe Shrews wants to stay (he is settled here, his son is ready to join, he sees the potential, etc) but that does NOT mean he will. We need to bring it with a competitive offer/extension/renegotiation. He obviously knows what Franklin has been able to negotiate. No, he is not getting Franklin money but we can't look like basketball is an afterthought, "who cares" priority or he gone.
The ND job is solid but not one of the top jobs in the country by any means. They are probably a notch above us but I don't think by much. The wildcard is how badly Shrews wants to be coaching in Indiana and getting back to his roots. He clearly has strong relationships with Indiana HS B-Ball coaches and Indiana is a talent rich state for hoops so that can play into this.
The ND job is solid but not one of the top jobs in the country by any means. They are probably a notch above us but I don't think by much. The wildcard is how badly Shrews wants to be coaching in Indiana and getting back to his roots. He clearly has strong relationships with Indiana HS B-Ball coaches and Indiana is a talent rich state for hoops so that can play into this.
I looked online and found this:
Izzo $5.7 million
Painter $3.6 million
Woodson $3.1 million
Shrewsberry $3.3 million includes assistant coaches so I'm guessing $2.3 million. I don't think PSU would have a problem coming up with another $million. I'm not sure what we need for facilities but the biggest problem is probably limited NIL money to attract the best players.
Izzo $5.7 million
Painter $3.6 million
Woodson $3.1 million
Shrewsberry $3.3 million includes assistant coaches so I'm guessing $2.3 million. I don't think PSU would have a problem coming up with another $million. I'm not sure what we need for facilities but the biggest problem is probably limited NIL money to attract the best players.
In the past it has been used for a lot of major concerts... trade shows, graduations, Thon, etc. The problem with it is that it is not very "intimate" as far as basketball fans are concerned. While some facilities can serve as a positive for the home team, BJC is almost sterile that way. One of the big plusses is the ease of parking for attendees. I have never heard a single complaint about that. It would be great if BJC could be renovated successfully. That would probably be the best alternative.
I saw basketball in both rec hall (including the jersey tug loss) and in the BJC. Was happy to be able to get BJC season tickets during the Bruce Parkhill days. The place was sold out in those days even on weeknights.
Also saw the circus (packed), Manheim Steamroller concert (sell out), home shows (large attendence) and even a night of boxing (large attendence) at the BJC. Had friends come from Maryland to see a concert.
When I was a student, I would occasionally attend basketball games in rec hall when students got in free with ID. Many empty seats.
I think it is about the product being provided. MS is the guy that can bring the basketball product back and needs the incentives to stay. Money sent his way would be a much more sound investment then spending it on another building.
I remember the first two years of the opening of BJC. Jerry Dunn's first years as coach. Parkhill stepped down leaving Dunn alot of talent. Those teams included Danny Earl, Lisicky, Gaudio, Booth, Sekunda etc. In fact that team actually was 16-2 at one point in the season and ranked in the top 10. We probably averaged more than 12,000 people per game that year. A few games were near sell outs. If we have a product worth watching, people will come from all over to watch it. The problem is that we have only had a handful of teams since then to want to make the effort to watch. I believe that if Shrewsberry decides to stay with us we can get back to those days of high attendance.
Good point about Parkville stepping down before the bjc opened. I had high hopes for Dunn but did not pan out. It also has to be kept in mind that students are a big piece of this puzzle and have to have a reason to show up for games.
Dunn but he was playing with all of Parkhill's players. I honestly believe that we would have gone further if Parkhill had remained the coach. Dunn over worked them at the end of the season. I believe they went 5-5 for their last 10 games.
