Could be said 1000 more times. Until you realize that is the key component in regards to PSU and that it isn't going to change, you can just keep getting frustrated that things aren't working out your way.
Sandusky Scandal Costs Approach 1/4 Billion.
- Thread starter moofafoo
- Start date
How do we know that they inflated the number of kids or that the construction expenses weren't legit.
And, if they are inflated, by how much? $1-2M over several years?
Is that pie big enough for all the bigwigs to get a meaningful cut while taking on enormous risk? This would mean that pre-existing multimillionaires risk felony life in prison to defraud a charity of maybe $200K each over several years.
It makes no sense. Try again.
They think that a conspiracy involving dozens of individuals makes more sense than the notion that a man who likes to shower with kids is a pedophile. It's just laughable.
Maybe if someone had said something during the 10 years it was going on, the BOT would have not been involved . . . .
Apparently you haven't watched many episodes of "American Greed" on cnbc. Rich people do stupid illegal stuff all the time in the name of greed. It's like a drug.
If the charity is run and regulated by other rich corrupt politicians then maybe the rich millionaires felt plundering TSM was a low risk move? See Hersey Trust for another example of a "charity" getting abused which also happens to have a lot of psu bot and political connections.
Nice try but Hershey trust manages $12Billion (with a B). TSM didn't even have $10Million (with an M) in assets.
Not remotely similar. The ability to extract enough money to make a difference to a number of multimillionaires is 3 orders of magnitude higher at Hershey Trust.
By the way, the number of kids "impacted" by TSM, when quoted as 100K kids by the conspiracy gang, refers to the number of football cards produced and freely distributed by TSM. They never applied for any state funding based on anything outside of that and as far as I can tell, never said that number meant anything else but # of football cards.
Corbett and 2 or 3 other BoT cronies whose names escape me were hauling down exorbitant fees and other benefits from the Hershey Trust and School.
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/115844149.html
...because nobody's actions in the heat of the issue in 2001 indicated that an abusive, sexual encounter was taking place. NOBODY.
In fact, from the 1998 incident EVERYONE seemed to already know that Sandusky showered with his TSM children. He was not so much as charged with any crime.
There is no doubt in my mind that Jerry Sandusky is a pedophile. The question everyone should be asking is: was he the ONLY pedophile/child molester at The Second Mile?
It is rather obvious that the PA State Police and Attorney General's office avoided looking at the charity for TWO YEARS even though the first six people involved all mentioned Jerry's involvement with the charity. Moreover, on the first DAY of the investigation Aaron Fisher provided them with the first name of Victim #9 and told them he met him through the charity. So if the state was looking to find other victims, why didn't they go to TSM and inquire about Victim #9?
As for the missing money (about $1M a year), there is evidence (in Sandusky's appeal) showing an instance were the charity used money to buy a car for a victim. In addition, there are some very interesting real estate transactions involving some former TSM participants well before the scandal broke.
In closing, a conspiracy involving dozens of individuals has more or less been proven by the evidence in the Corman v. NCAA case. Those involved include Erickson, Frazier, Freeh, Tomalis, Emmert, Roe-Lach, and others. The Sandusky scandal is not simply about Sandusky abusing children, but the whole chain of actions around it that are, in the words of Geoffrey Moulton, "inexplicable."
So what? The difference in size doesn't automatically mean that smaller charities don't get abused it means they get abused on a smaller scale. They may even get abused more in comparison for all we know since they have less eye balls on them vs. larger ones.
None of what you said changes the fact that rich people do stupid and illegal things to get more rich ALL the time. Not all rich people, but some. And the state of PA has shown no interest in looking into this charity/non profit fraud so it's no surprise it's a systemic problem in PA much like the broken child welfare system.
How do you know the police weren't contacted?
Interestingly enough, there was an email sent from Schultz to Police Chief Tom Harmon on February 12, 2001. Somehow, that document never made it into the Freeh Report nor has the Commonwealth produced it through the discovery process.
Tom Harmon denied he was informed about the 2001 incident. The same Tom Harmon who altered the police report of the 1998 investigation so that it couldn't be found by the media.
The same Tom Harmon who lived on the same street as Sandusky.
The same Tom Harmon who went to the same church as Sandusky.
How much do you want a bet that Tom Harmon testified with a grant of immunity?
If that is true it certainly doesn't help Penn State. One can only imagine the renewed firestorm against the University. The good news is it would only last 24 hours since it just reinforces the existing narrative.
There is no reliable evidence supporting the notion that Curley, Schultz, Spanier, and/or Paterno KNEW that MM thought the incident was sexual.
Joe Paterno's testimony 10 years after talking to McQ is NOT reliable. He made numerous misstatements of facts during his police interview in October 2011 and made other misstatements in his pre-grand jury interview. The OAG cherry picked one statement that supported their case while dismissing all the other erroneous testimony. That is why grand jury presentments should be taken with a grain of salt.
Dr. Dranov just testified that McQueary never told him of a crime being committed -- and McQ talked to him right after the incident. If you agree that a sexual act with a child is a crime, then Dranov wasn't told of sexual act.
No one else involved, not Courtney, Schultz, Spanier, Curley, and Raykovitz was told of anything sexual/criminal. Courtney and Spanier just recently testified to that.
There is no CORROBORATING witness for Mike's version of events. Even Mike doesn't corroborate his own version of events, given that he testified that he didn't use sexual terms in describing the incident (yet, somehow he believed that everyone involved understood that).
I don't care if it helps Penn State or not.
Helping Penn State University isn't the goal. Finding the truth is.
If the truth is that Harmon buried the report (because he was friends with Jerry -- or was involved in similar criminal activities as Jerry through the church's youth organization) that will be more than a one day story, my friend.
Schultz testified that he thought the incident was reported to the same "agency that was involved in '98." I'd bet a tidy sum that it was Harmon who was expected to make that call.
Aside from Dranov and Mike's dad, Mike's ex-girlfriend and wife also stated Mike never once mentioned anything sexual. Not one time before he was unceremoniously tracked down ten years later.
Yes, most of it. This is GS taking notes of a phone convo where Harmon is informing what DPW will do and what UPPD's role is :
Paul Tomczyk (crossed out) Tom Harmon 5/5/1998
-Psychologist* did make report to Childline Hotline (asking?) Dept to do an investigation (illegible) locals.
-Because 2nd Mile is (contributor), it needs to be investigated by Dept. Pub. Welfare (illegible but underlined for emphasis) office.
-DPW is protecting child. Police (would could should) do criminal side.
-Police will do in conjunction with DPW's turn facts over to DPW (illegible) will determine if crime was committed.
-Somewhat more complicated due to 2nd Mile.
Dept of Welfare Children Youth?
Ck w/TLH** re their report?
============
* =Alycia Chambers of The Highlands practice in St College PA.
**= Interpretations so far :
i.) Incorrect initials for TRH, Thomas R Harmon's report
ii.) Transposition of acronym for The HighLands psychology practice who would be writing a report that was received on 05/07/1998.
iii.) A third unidentified person affiliated with any of the mentioned child agencies designated to deal with this issue.
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@rmb297 Does this match what you deciphered and do you have any corrections/observations since I purposely did not ask anyone for cooperation/corroboration to make sure analysis was 3rd party independent of influence/different set of eyes?
You could say the same thing about anyone who doesn't report crimes. It's meaningless when you have testimony like we do in this case.
We know with 100% certainty that this is what MM thought he say and what he reported to Paterno.
Sorry, but you simply saying that Paterno's testimony is not reliable does not make it so. Of course you think it was merely just a mistake because the truth blows up your narrative.
Better than being an immature man- child that resorts to insults when things don't go his way. I doubt there is a regular poster her that you have not denigrated in some way.
I'm not sure how you can remember so many other things but totally forget what would have been the MOST important action that could have been taken.
I think I get it now. Nothing happened that night and MM never told anyone that something
happened including Paterno. Then Paterno consulted his handbook and called Curley and Spanier to
report nothing happened. Then they had a meeting with MM to discuss nothing.
Then they might have taken some keys from Sandusky over nothing if in fact
he ever had keys. Then 10 years later when testifying before a GJ, MM and Paterno
forgot that nothing happened and said something sexual happened. Then the media,
Governor, BOT, etc conspired to get rid of Paterno and Spanier and smear their names. Also Sandusky was unjustly prosecuted by a corrupt court system for doing nothing to over 30 other kids. While this was going on, TSM was laundering money for crooked farmers which somehow is related to this story.
happened including Paterno. Then Paterno consulted his handbook and called Curley and Spanier to
report nothing happened. Then they had a meeting with MM to discuss nothing.
Then they might have taken some keys from Sandusky over nothing if in fact
he ever had keys. Then 10 years later when testifying before a GJ, MM and Paterno
forgot that nothing happened and said something sexual happened. Then the media,
Governor, BOT, etc conspired to get rid of Paterno and Spanier and smear their names. Also Sandusky was unjustly prosecuted by a corrupt court system for doing nothing to over 30 other kids. While this was going on, TSM was laundering money for crooked farmers which somehow is related to this story.
And why was it SO important to try to abscond to TEXAS in 04/18/2012 with $2M more, (faulty programs intact), and a rubber-stamp "approval" by Arrow Ministries 2 months before the trial? And why did Jeff Anderson/Marci Hamilton request a STAY on this in the PA Orphan's Court then go full bore after PSU when they found out all the $ had "disappeared"?Running around today but here's a few quick examples. Glad you ask the questions.
Just a few more questions that are not yet fully answered.
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He didn't say "Paterno's testimony is not reliable", although for multiple reasons that is also correct.
He said " There is no reliable evidence supporting the notion"... and he's talking about the concept of "knowing" JS was a POC-PCSO classification predator.
Again, you are a word-twister extraordinaire. One wonders why you insist on proving that with plenty of reliable evidence in post after post after post here.
You missed something important. In and among all those corrupt bigwigs on the board & leadership Second Mile were many clearly innocent people. Yet over many dozens of years, not one of them ever thought to report any suspicions of a crime, financial or otherwise. Their books were audited by folks whose career depends on accuracy. Yet nothing was reported.
By definition, of course, under our operating theory, if no crime was reported, no crime happened. Its a paradox. It's almost as though our crack team of amateur truth seekers applies one set of rules to Joe Paterno and a totally different set to TSM. It hurt my head until I realized the real story:
If a factoid or theory tends to help Joe Paterno or tends to hurt anyone who hurt him, it's true. If it tends to hurt Joe or help anyone who hurt him, it's false.
Only by looking through this lens can the truth seeker find enlightenment.
No one here is lumping any innocents at TSM (clients, office workers, volunteers) into the discussion. Is that part what your real personal issue is? Are you one of those people?
If so, please advise us of the specific schedule, dates, times, findings when the IRS conducted their charitable org audits, and also include same for when the PAOAG did their audits.
The position that there are a subset of people involved with TSM who are "innocent" seems to imply that some are provably "guilty." You will need something more than duly filed Form 990's (what better place, after all to hide your federal crimes, than to explicitly report them to the Federal Government).
Have there been any charges against anyone, at any level, of TSM, other than Jerry?
Not yet.... But there's still time.
You're the one who brought up the concept there were some innocent people at TSM. Don't try to lay that one on me.
Also, what is your answer to this part ?: If so, please advise us of the specific schedule, dates, times, findings when the IRS conducted their charitable org audits, and also include same for when the PAOAG did their audits.
Methinks coveydidnt may have been an auditor or bookkeeper or knows an auditor or bookkeeper who simply may have missed something. It's OK, a lot of professional people in this whole saga, especially the ones at CYS/DPW and even professional child psychologists at TSM seem to have missed something... With much higher human consequences.
Which is why we all have to self-train on POC-PCSO type predation and also try to get reforms in place at CPS in every state, not just PA, (better training, higher pay, lower caseloads, better procedures) so these things don't fall through the cracks ever again. We can't depend on them to do their jobs right every minute of every day so it's pretty obvious we all need to pitch in.
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Why would that be public information unless a case was brought against them?
Focus on evidence, not ghosts. The lack of some bit of information is not proof of anything.
More to the point, TSM was audited annually by Certified Accountants who would most certainly lose their license to practice if there was false info in their books. Are you actually accusing those accountants of a crime or ethics violation? Do you know how serious that is?
Or ... nothing was missed by auditors, because there was nothing suspicious to find. You have to agree, that's possible.
