Sandusky Scandal Costs Approach 1/4 Billion.

[Obliviax]

I mean... Paterno and MM testified that they told C&S that MM witnessed something of a sexual nature. C&S convinced Spanier they it was merely "horseplay." C&S would have been responsible for contacting HR to have them sit in the the conversations with Paterno and MM.

How does this look for C&S?

Not correct. Paterno said that the description was vague but of something of a sexual nature...correcting himself to then say "I don't know what you would call it." So paterno's clear intent was to say what he had heard wasn't clear. He also said he knew he wasn't the guy to talk to so had Mike go to Curley (as, again, guidelines then and today, dictate).

 

[getmyjive11]

Not correct. Paterno said that the description was vague but of something of a sexual nature...correcting himself to then say "I don't know what you would call it." So paterno's clear intent was to say what he had heard wasn't clear. He also said he knew he wasn't the guy to talk to so had Mike go to Curley (as, again, guidelines then and today, dictate).

I disagree with your assessment of his testimony. He did not correct himself, he was testifying that it was something of a sexual nature, but he was not sure what you would call it. He also indicated that there was fondling going on. Fondling of a minor in a public shower is certainly enough to contact police.

 

[WeR0206]

I wish I knew the answer... Only can speculate...

So far we've only seen what the OAG/freeh have allowed us to see re: CSS' notes, emails, etc.. That is important to keep in mind. I wouldn't doubt for a second that the OAG/freeh buried exculpatory notes/emails. Baldwin may have gotten her hands on Schultz's "secret" file while he was retired and destroyed God knows what. We already know she was working with the OAG otherwise they would have charged her with obstruction re: failure to properly respond to the subpoenas. How her, fina, feudale and anyone else involved in the GJ kangaroo court haven't all been disbarred is beyond me. Good ol' corrupt PA!

I find it very hard to believe that Schultz, who was a habitual note taker during the '98 incident and other times during the 2001 incident, just happened to not take any notes during his meeting with MM. Perhaps the A9 review of freeh source materials will find some "missing" notes/emails....

 

[Obliviax]

I disagree with your assessment of his testimony. He did not correct himself, he was testifying that it was something of a sexual nature, but he was not sure what you would call it. He also indicated that there was fondling going on. Fondling of a minor in a public shower is certainly enough to contact police.

Maybe, maybe not. I am not going to go there in this forum but young boys, especially father/brotherless, need to be taught certain things. JS's horrible genius was that he was able to skirt the edge between creepy and illegal for so long. He did as part of his duties with TSM...again, a reason why the lack of investigation into TSM is so puzzling

 

[getmyjive11]

Maybe, maybe not. I am not going to go there in this forum but young boys, especially father/brotherless, need to be taught certain things. JS's horrible genius was that he was able to skirt the edge between creepy and illegal for so long. He did as part of his duties with TSM...again, a reason why the lack of investigation into TSM is so puzzling

I know what you are saying, but the excuse from C&S not contact authorities was that the event was "horseplaying." There was no indication that they thought JS was trying to teach the kid anything.

 

[wensilver]

Yes. As a matter of FACT they can be WRONG.

The transcript of my question to Louis Freeh on July 12, 2012 is WRONG.

The transcript said on lines 14 & 15 :" access to their records. We don't have SUBCOMMITTEE power, as you know. But you raise a good question".

Freeh specifically said SUBPOENA power.

Potato - Potahto - Subpoena - Subcommittee - whatever.

How is it a "lie?" Ohhh... maybe you are one of those people that thinks the transcripts are wrong.

 

[Osprey Lion]

What a load of garbage. Dr. D had lots of training re: how to report suspected child abuse yet he didn't tell MM to call ChildLine or UPPD the night of the incident, hmm....so either MM is lying about what he told people in 2001 or Dr. D is a complete incompetent scumbag. I'll let you decide which is more believable.

When was it ever proven the admins lied?? They "passed the buck" all the way to the folks who were most qualified--the phd director of a state licensed children's charity who was required to look into any and all incidents--where it was then buried. That's on JR/Heim/TSM not on the damned college admins. MM also never told anyone at PSU he was unhappy with how they treated his "child rape" story or that more needed to be done when Curley called him a few weeks later to follow up, that's odd now isn't it?

When the one and only witness is telling Curley he was satisfied and nothing more needed to be done why in the world would Curley think otherwise? They were taking their cues off of MM because they didn't "witness" anything. They couldn't force MM to file a police report if he didn't want to and apparently he didn't want to yet you somehow bizarrely want to blame the admins for that, which shows your true colors.

Since the one and only witness wasn't sure enough about what he THOUGHT JS and the kid were doing to file a written statement with UPPD and the admins had ZERO control over JS' access to kids, the only option they had was to confront JS/revoke JS' guest privileges and let his employers at TSM, who were 100000X more qualified to deal with MM's vague assumption riddled report and had direct control over JS' access to kids, look into it as they were required to.

So if MM was satisfied, everyone should be satisfied? They couldn't "force him to file a police report"
but they could have suggested he do so. Did they? You act as though I am the person who blamed
the administration. An independent investigator and the rest of the country save for a few like you blame
the administration. You and those of your ilk are the ones who are out of touch and out of step. You can
make all of the half baked excuses you want. However the facts speak for themselves. They should have
done more.

 

[wensilver]

This is a good question.

Some Scenarios:
1. Current one - just what notes we've been privy to on which the OAG is trying to make their case. Which of course, was also shared with Freeh, who was also making the case for the state. And here we are years later still arguing over this.

2. More notes were taken, maybe HR was consulted, maybe it's documented Tom Harmon was consulted.
Freeh never bothered to compare his "discovered" emails with Joe, Tim & Gary's testimony and the line of questioning by prosecutors at the January 12, 2011 grand jury hearings - and adjust his theory.

Paterno was NEVER ASKED a certain question by the prosecutors that Curley & Schultz were asked.

Hell, Eileen Morgan did that years ago and she's not a Former FBI director. Eileen showed that the line of questioning here indicates the OAG had these "secret emails" with which to prepare for this hearing. Freeh screwed up here by not picking up on that. Whoops!

What language do these emails contain that is so damaging to the state's case that neither the prosecution introduced it as evidence at proceedings or that Freeh would exclude it from his report?

3. More notes were taken, more emails and chatter re-inforcing a "conspiracy to conceal" - in which case Freeh most definitely would have "discovered" them, leaked to the media and unleashed a nuclear bomb. The PSU 3 were dead meat by the end of 2012. The state had their "slam dunk" case.

Agree 2000% and have mentioned this a hundred times. Anyone with a 50 IQ would know to document the living crap out of this to cover your butt. of course, you probably know the answer...care to share?

 

[wensilver]

OMG - Look kids - IT'S KEN FRAZIER!

Hi Ken - this is awfully similar to your rant that day in Hershey. You remember. The one where you had an epic meltdown - shouting about "those documents say what they say and no amount of handwaving is going to change what those documents say" - all while waving a copy of Don Van Natta Jr's article in the air.

Good times.

However the facts speak for themselves. They should have
done more.

 

[moofafoo]

OMG - Look kids - IT'S KEN FRAZIER!

Hi Ken - this is awfully similar to your rant that day in Hershey. You remember. The one where you had an epic meltdown - shouting about "those documents say what they say and no amount of handwaving is going to change what those documents say" - all while waving a copy of Don Van Natta Jr's article in the air.

Good times.

These shit for brains don't get that in 2001, they didn't have to do a GD thing. Because they don't want to get it.

 

[didier]

This is a good question.

Some Scenarios:
1. Current one - just what notes we've been privy to on which the OAG is trying to make their case. Which of course, was also shared with Freeh, who was also making the case for the state. And here we are years later still arguing over this.

2. More notes were taken, maybe HR was consulted, maybe it's documented Tom Harmon was consulted..

Should be noted that the wife of CYS director Terry Watson worked in the PSU HR office.

 

[Obliviax]

I know what you are saying, but the excuse from C&S not contact authorities was that the event was "horseplaying." There was no indication that they thought JS was trying to teach the kid anything.

..and that all comes down to what MM told them. The facts of the case, as we know them, show the actions of MM, his father, Dranov, Curley and Schultz to be consistent. Only later, in 2011, ten years later and a full investigation had a fundamental like the year wrong, do we see a different story and different actions.

These are the facts of the case.

 

[colt21]

I disagree with your assessment of his testimony. He did not correct himself, he was testifying that it was something of a sexual nature, but he was not sure what you would call it. He also indicated that there was fondling going on. Fondling of a minor in a public shower is certainly enough to contact police.

You back again Jive?

Again, Repeat after me...

Joe did exactly what he should have,with that information, in his role, at that time !

It's already been proven and not one single person, who actually knows what they are talking about, will refute it!

 

[WeR0206]

So if MM was satisfied, everyone should be satisfied? They couldn't "force him to file a police report"
but they could have suggested he do so. Did they? You act as though I am the person who blamed
the administration. An independent investigator and the rest of the country save for a few like you blame
the administration. You and those of your ilk are the ones who are out of touch and out of step. You can
make all of the half baked excuses you want. However the facts speak for themselves. They should have
done more.

Umm, yes, since no one else was witness to anything. Since the one and only adult witness was satisfied then it should be considered closed >>the admins left MM's report in the hands of state licensed child care EXPERTS and mandatory reporters way more qualified than them to deal with MM's vague report...aka there was no cover up by the admins. It's not like MM was some child who needed to be told what to do, he was 28 damned years old at the time. Perhaps having his report forwarded to the child care experts at TSM is why MM expressed no dissatisfaction when TC called him to follow up? Apparently he was satisfied with that response.

Are you seriously trying to suggest that he needed to be told that if he wanted the police to do something about what he THOUGHT was happening that night that he'd have to actually make a police report/written statement to LE (having an informal chat with the admin that oversees UPPD would be a good primer but at some point MM would have to actually file a report/statement with UPPD)? That's quite a weak stance.

LOL at your reference to freeh. He is a joke with no credibility, see fifa, waco, Wen Ho Lee, etc.

I'm done with you, the above questions are rhetorical....back on ignore you go.

 

[ChiTownLion]

@Osprey Lion and @getmyjive11, did you vote?

 

[ChiTownLion]

 

[getmyjive11]

..and that all comes down to what MM told them. The facts of the case, as we know them, show the actions of MM, his father, Dranov, Curley and Schultz to be consistent. Only later, in 2011, ten years later and a full investigation had a fundamental like the year wrong, do we see a different story and different actions.

These are the facts of the case.

Of course it comes down to what MM told Paterno and then what they both told C&S. And what not men testified they told C&S called for a police investigation.

 

[getmyjive11]

You back again Jive?

Again, Repeat after me...

Joe did exactly what he should have,with that information, in his role, at that time !

It's already been proven and not one single person, who actually knows what they are talking about, will refute it!

If you read this thread, you would see that I am questioning C&S's actions, not Paterno's.

 

[Obliviax]

Of course it comes down to what MM told Paterno and then what they both told C&S. And what not men testified they told C&S called for a police investigation.

"And what not men testified they told C&S called for a police investigation"..I don't know what that means

 

[getmyjive11]

Of course it comes down to what MM told Paterno and then what they both told C&S. And what the men testified that they told C&S called for a police investigation.

 

[getmyjive11]

"And what not men testified they told C&S called for a police investigation"..I don't know what that means

Sorry, see my post above for the correction.

 

[LundyPSU]

JVP's testimony, interviews, etc are unreliable

 

[Obliviax]

Sorry, see my post above for the correction.

its a circular argument. Do you believe MM gave them actionable details in 2001, or do you believe Dad, Dranov, Paterno, Curley and Schultz?

My "opinion" is that MM was asked or told to embolden his testimony in 2010/11. And he probably had no idea it would blow up like it did.

 

[Osprey Lion]

You back again Jive?

Again, Repeat after me...

Joe did exactly what he should have,with that information, in his role, at that time !

It's already been proven and not one single person, who actually knows what they are talking about, will refute it!

Tell that to Joe's reputation.

 

[Osprey Lion]

JVP's testimony, interviews, etc are unreliable

Are you being serious or just pulling the cult member's chains?

 

[Osprey Lion]

its a circular argument. Do you believe MM gave them actionable details in 2001, or do you believe Dad, Dranov, Paterno, Curley and Schultz?

My "opinion" is that MM was asked or told to embolden his testimony in 2010/11. And he probably had no idea it would blow up like it did.

Most people have a different opinion. I believe Paterno when he said MM told him he saw something
of a sexual nature. Was Paterno lying?

 

[Osprey Lion]

Umm, yes, since no one else was witness to anything. Since the one and only adult witness was satisfied then it should be considered closed >>the admins left MM's report in the hands of state licensed child care EXPERTS and mandatory reporters way more qualified than them to deal with MM's vague report...aka there was no cover up by the admins. It's not like MM was some child who needed to be told what to do, he was 28 damned years old at the time. Perhaps having his report forwarded to the child care experts at TSM is why MM expressed no dissatisfaction when TC called him to follow up? Apparently he was satisfied with that response.

Are you seriously trying to suggest that he needed to be told that if he wanted the police to do something about what he THOUGHT was happening that night that he'd have to actually make a police report/written statement to LE (having an informal chat with the admin that oversees UPPD would be a good primer but at some point MM would have to actually file a report/statement with UPPD)? That's quite a weak stance.

LOL at your reference to freeh. He is a joke with no credibility, see fifa, waco, Wen Ho Lee, etc.

I'm done with you, the above questions are rhetorical....back on ignore you go.

Since you have no idea what was exactly said by MM, how can you call it vague? Obviously
he was disturbed enough by what he saw to tell it to multiple people who he considered older
and wiser than he. Apparently they weren't.

 

[getmyjive11]

its a circular argument. Do you believe MM gave them actionable details in 2001, or do you believe Dad, Dranov, Paterno, Curley and Schultz?

My "opinion" is that MM was asked or told to embolden his testimony in 2010/11. And he probably had no idea it would blow up like it did.

I believe Paterno, MM, Dr D. and MM's father. Dr. D said that MM talked about sexual sounds but was too distraught to say more. MM's father said that it was sexual in nature. Paterno said the same thing. I'm not sure why there is this push here to deny and discredit those testimonies.

 

[TenerHallTerror]

Most people have a different opinion. I believe Paterno when he said MM told him he saw something
of a sexual nature. Was Paterno lying?

your opinion is based on your inability to read and understand English, though

 

[colt21]

Tell that to Joe's reputation.

Joe's reputation took the hit because there are many very evil people out there who took advantage of a bad situation by settling personal and political vendettas

Those are some sick individuals there

In the end Joe did the right thing and anyone in the field (even Joe or PSU haters) will tell you the same thing

As I said you will NOT find a professional in the field who will say on the record otherwise - that should tell you something!

 

[Osprey Lion]

Joe's reputation took the hit because there are many very evil people out there who took advantage of a bad situation by settling personal and political vendettas

Those are some sick individuals there

In the end Joe did the right thing and anyone in the field (even Joe or PSU haters) will tell you the same thing

As I said you will NOT find a professional in the field who will say on the record otherwise - that should tell you something!

Sorry but even Paterno disagreed with you. It wasn't just Paterno's reputation that took a hit, everyone
who MM told about the incident was tarred. It's just that Paterno's rep was so much bigger that
it took a harder fall.

 

[LundyPSU]

Are you being serious or just pulling the cult member's chains?

serious

 

[Osprey Lion]

your opinion is based on your inability to read and understand English, though

When I read the ravings of you lunatics, I'm not sure you understand what you are trying to say.

 

[Osprey Lion]

serious

Are you saying that Paterno was senile or lying?

 

[Legion of Lions]

Well, Paterno and MM both testified that they told C&S that it was something of a sexual nature that occurred. So either you are calling Paterno and MM liars or you feel that something of a sexual nature does not warrant police interaction. I would not agree with you in either of those scenarios. MMs cowardly incompetence does not change his and Paterno's sworn testimony.

I am calling MM a Liar and Paterno a pawn in a Collusive Crime involving connected Government criminals. MM has statements that prove he said NOTHING that would warrant criminal activity. Paterno 9 years later testimony has been "conveniently redefined" in court transcripts to include a "sexual" component. A review of ALL his testimonies brings this ONE oft quoted version into question. Oh....and by the way, the "victim" of this observation by MM has stated in sworn testimony that NOTHING HAPPENED! That proves MM is a LIAR!! - MM should be in jail for giving false testimony and for his collections from the Bank of PSU!!!

Convenient of the absurd public "Story" is to ignore all this. Face it...those that support "The Story" --- support the hidden crimes of corrupt politics. NOTHING LESS...... "Story" supporters...Hope you are proud!!

 

[wensilver]

@Osprey Lion - you really should just give up. Let's assume you really do live down in Florida.

It's reasonable to conclude that you have little knowledge of what's going on up here in PA, and more specifically don't have a personal pipeline to folks knowledgeable about this case, the Office of Attorney General, certain prosecutors in the Phila area with a parallel case.

It's more reasonable to conclude, based the available evidence and circumstances, that you just log on to this site and tap away simply to stir up sh*t.

Sorry but even Paterno disagreed with you. It wasn't just Paterno's reputation that took a hit, everyone
who MM told about the incident was tarred. It's just that Paterno's rep was so much bigger that
it took a harder fall.

 

[wensilver]

I remember hearing something like that.

Should be noted that the wife of CYS director Terry Watson worked in the PSU HR office.

 

[GTACSA]

Are you saying that Paterno was senile or lying?

I think he's saying they are unreliable because they don't support his narrative of what happened.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I am calling MM a Liar and Paterno a pawn in a Collusive Crime involving connected Government criminals. MM has statements that prove he said NOTHING that would warrant criminal activity. Paterno 9 years later testimony has been "conveniently redefined" in court transcripts to include a "sexual" component. A review of ALL his testimonies brings this ONE oft quoted version into question. Oh....and by the way, the "victim" of this observation by MM has stated in sworn testimony that NOTHING HAPPENED! That proves MM is a LIAR!! - MM should be in jail for giving false testimony and for his collections from the Bank of PSU!!!

Convenient of the absurd public "Story" is to ignore all this. Face it...those that support "The Story" --- support the hidden crimes of corrupt politics. NOTHING LESS...... "Story" supporters...Hope you are proud!!

How come MM was in the PSU Playbook chat days after the event in 2001 stating he saw something? Most of those posters are still on Scout that attended those nightly chats, but he was in there saying the sky was about to fall...never did though until 9 years later. I love the black and white takes on this as if there is no gray area. It is odd looking back now as you were expecting something to come of it and it never did until 8-9 years later. Oh well...carry on as some have this story written in stone and know everything.

 

[Legion of Lions]

I mean... Paterno and MM testified that they told C&S that MM witnessed something of a sexual nature. C&S convinced Spanier they it was merely "horseplay." C&S would have been responsible for contacting HR to have them sit in the the conversations with Paterno and MM.

How does this look for C&S?

SELECTIVE TESTIMONY....That is what you are using to support the "Sexual Nature" illusion in Paterno's "Testimony". 9 Years after the fact....based on an 80+ year old's memory of a non-event....does ONE version of Paterno's "Transcript" indicate the word "sexual". It is obviously a plant by someone handling the transcript records OR a highly unethical method of questioning Paterno (we will never know for 100% sure) to support what we now know is a FALSEHOOD in MM's "rape" & "sexual" testimony. When MM reported to Paterno, AT THAT TIME...no one (MULTIPLE independent persons) reacted like it was an even REMOTE "sexual event". MM is lying for $$$. He had no choice...either that - or PA in 2011 would have prosecuted him for "other crimes".

Keep "reaching for the Stars" in trying to create some credibility for the highly machined statements use to support an obviously manufactured "Story".