So it sounds like the "false narrative" is now the truth...

[BBHorn86]

Curley & Schultz throw in the towel.

Spanier about to get lit up in court in front of a jury.

No "Feds" investigating TSM or their BOD.

Freeh for all intents and purposes protected by a PA judge's ruling.

McQueary walks off with millions based on an ever changing story.

Sadly, PA youth are no safer today than when Jerry was roaming the streets because real lessons on the failure of the system intended to protect then have not been learned.

The OGBOT comes out unscathed.

The Alumni trustees elected to the BOT go silent... What happened to getting to the truth?

The Paterno family case marches on but what are they hoping to achieve? How long before they call it a day and move on?

In light of this trail of history... As much as I hate to say this... maybe the OGBOT did exactly the right thing for the greater good of PSU, they broke off all ties with the past and moved forward with new leadership. PSU can always emphasize "Success with Honor" but there is now no conceivable way I can see Joe Paterno ever being honored or getting credit for it.

The only possible good that comes from where we are... After more than five years we may finally be able to close the book on this mess. Thanks Jerry Sandusky. I hope it was all worth it for you.

What a tragedy!!

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Curley & Schultz throw in the towel.

Spanier about to get lit up in court in front of a jury.

No "Feds" investigating TSM or their BOD.

Freeh for all intents and purposes protected by a PA judge's ruling.

McQueary walks off with millions based on a ever changing story.

Sadly, PA youth are no safer today than when Jerry was roaming the streets because real lessons on the failure of the system intended to protect then have been learned.

The OGBOT comes out unscathed.

The Alumni trustees elected to the BOT go silent... What happened to getting to the truth?

The Paterno family case marches on but what are they hoping to achieve? How long before they call it a day and move on?

In light of this trail of history... As much as I hate to say this... maybe the OGBOT did exactly the right thing for the greater good of PSU, they broke off all ties with the past and moved forward with new leadership. PSU can always emphasize "Success with Honor" but there is now no conceivable way I can see Joe Paterno ever being honored or getting credit for it.

The only possible good that comes from where we are... After more than five years we may finally be able to close the book on this mess. Thanks Jerry Sandusky. I hope it was all worth it for you.

What a tragedy!!

I think you'll see more tinfoil now in this place than you ever have before sadly. There are no winners in cases like this. Jerry ruined the victims lives as well as so many more than that but we still have f--king loons here fighting for that man. You think this stops them? I too thought maybe the 3 were just caught up in a witch hunt, but I'm starting to realize that maybe they had a better handle on the 98 situation than we were led to believe.

 

[PSU_Nut]

The quest for truth was always a fallacy. It had nothing to do with finding the truth. It was only finding information that fit what they wanted to believe the truth was.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

The quest for truth was always a fallacy. It had nothing to do with finding the truth. It was only finding information that fit what they wanted to believe the truth was.

 

[21Guns]

I think you'll see more tinfoil now in this place than you ever have before sadly. There are no winners in cases like this. Jerry ruined the victims lives as well as so many more than that but we still have f--king loons here fighting for that man. You think this stops them? I too thought maybe the 3 were just caught up in a witch hunt, but I'm starting to realize that maybe they had a better handle on the 98 situation than we were led to believe.

Perhaps the only thing I have ever agreed with you about. You are 100 percent correct here.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Perhaps the only thing I have ever agreed with you about. You are 100 percent correct here.

That is why you are wrong so often...learn it, live it...love it!!!!

 

[21Guns]

That is why you are wrong so often...learn it, live it...love it!!!!

LMAO, I just thought of this!

 

[BobPSU92]

No, it's still the false narrative. Curley and Schultz chose not to take a chance with a jury trial in a corrupt state and after over five years of irresponsible media coverage.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

No, it's still the false narrative. Curley and Schultz chose not to take a chance with a jury trial in a corrupt state and after over five years of irresponsible media coverage.

That line probably will work until they testify against GS....start thinking of some new ones.

 

[PSUPride1]

I think you'll see more tinfoil now in this place than you ever have before sadly. There are no winners in cases like this. Jerry ruined the victims lives as well as so many more than that but we still have f--king loons here fighting for that man. You think this stops them? I too thought maybe the 3 were just caught up in a witch hunt, but I'm starting to realize that maybe they had a better handle on the 98 situation than we were led to believe.

I think mistakes were made but there was never a cover-up and this had nothing to do with Football or Joe trying to protect his legacy. That's what many here have argued against and nothing that happened today changes that even a little. The cover-up and conspiracy charges were always a joke. No charges were filed in 98 when everyone was involved and PSU reported the 2001 allegation to second mile. That's not a cover-up. Perhaps Curley and Schultz don't have a lot of faith in the justice system, especially the corrupt, disgraceful system in PA. They want this nightmare over with.

 

[PSUPride1]

That line probably will work until they testify against GS....start thinking of some new ones.

Why don't you run your mouth relative to the State and the charges they dropped. Does that imply innocence since accepting a plea to one charge seems to imply guilt to everything in your mind. Once again fairness abounds.

 

[Raffycorn]

That line probably will work until they testify against GS....start thinking of some new ones.

When they testify against Spanier, the theory will go that the government forced them to lie under oath against Spanier.

 

[psulion2001]

I think you'll see more tinfoil now in this place than you ever have before sadly. There are no winners in cases like this. Jerry ruined the victims lives as well as so many more than that but we still have f--king loons here fighting for that man. You think this stops them? I too thought maybe the 3 were just caught up in a witch hunt, but I'm starting to realize that maybe they had a better handle on the 98 situation than we were led to believe.

Yup. The conspiracy nonsense is going to get worse. Do these guys actually think Curley and Schultz were going to testify at their trial? Most defendants do not testify at their own trial, but don't tell that to the self proclaimed law experts you have on this board...

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Why don't you run your mouth relative to the State and the charges they dropped. Does that imply innocence since accepting a plea to one charge seems to imply guilt to everything in your mind. Once again fairness abounds.

The state was unfair to drop those charges? LOL, you can't call the state corrupt as they dropped charge after charge and still these guys took a deal later on. What will you do when they are on the stand testifying against GS or he pleads out as well. Are you going to call their lawyers names or just blame the jury who was never picked? Get mad at me if you have to as I thought maybe they would go to trial and be exonerated, but it's pretty clear to me that with this deal they are CYA and going after GS now. Are you going to be calling them liars when they are on the stand?

 

[mickey_PSU]

That line probably will work until they testify against GS....start thinking of some new ones.

I usually agree with you but on this one I think there's a lot to consider when you have 12 jurors deciding a very emotional issue. Look at the way the media went out of their way to report the whole story, you can't deny there was an awful lot of misinformation out there... and that was because the story was way, way to good to bother fact checking. I'm by no means saying that CSS weren't negligent, but if I'm any of those guys, I'm feeling pretty certain the emotional side of what happened could be given far more weight than the facts, it happens all the time with juries.

I stand by my view, we'll never know the whole truth; a lot of people were negligent- probably unintentionally so, but negligent nevertheless; and as a society, we have to place blame whenever bad things happen... the only real bad guy in all this was Sandusky and he's where he belongs but Paterno was the big name, that's why the press went after him. As stated by the OP, the sad part of all of this is that kids are no safer in Pa than they were before Sandusky.

It sure will be interesting to see what Spanier says and what, if anything, C and S will say that could hurt him. Again, remember, it's an emotional issue so the jury may find Spanier guilty even if the evidence isn't as tight as it should be to get such a ruling.

 

[VaNtyLion]

The "false narrative" centers solely around a conspiracy of cover up to protect the reputation of the football program.

There is still nothing in today's pleas (particularly when taken in light of what has been already dropped) to support the cover up narrative. C/S didn't plead guilty to conspiracy. That charge was dropped. They didn't plead guilty to perjury. That charge was dropped. They didn't plead guilty for failure to report. That too, was dropped. By their actions of dropping charges, the prosecution has admitted there is no proof to support the notion that anyone at PSU covered up a damn thing.

What they essentially pled guilty to was the equivalent of unknowingly holding the door for a bank robber that made away with cash concealed in his pockets without stirring the suspicion of the security guard or cameras. The prosecution first wanted to charge them with aiding and abetting a felony bank robbery but all they could prove - and using a pretty big stretch of misdemeanor standards of proof - was essentially negligence by someone who may or may have not had any indication the man leaving the bank had just robbed it.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I usually agree with you but on this one I think there's a lot to consider when you have 12 jurors deciding a very emotional issue. Look at the way the media went out of their way to report the whole story, you can't deny there was an awful lot of misinformation out there... and that was because the story was way, way to good to bother fact checking. I'm by no means saying that CSS weren't negligent, but if I'm any of those guys, I'm feeling pretty certain the emotional side of what happened could be given far more weight than the facts, it happens all the time with juries.

I stand by my view, we'll never know the whole truth; a lot of people were negligent- probably unintentionally so, but negligent nevertheless; and as a society, we have to place blame whenever bad things happen... the only real bad guy in all this was Sandusky and he's where he belongs but Paterno was the big name, that's why the press went after him. As stated by the OP, the sad part of all of this is that kids are no safer in Pa than they were before Sandusky.

It sure will be interesting to see what Spanier says and what, if anything, C and S will say that could hurt him. Again, remember, it's an emotional issue so the jury may find Spanier guilty even if the evidence isn't as tight as it should be to get such a ruling.

I don't think they are going to take the stand for the state and say GS knew nothing. I think there is a reason why these two flipped together. I know the corrupt PA judicial card is an easy one to play on this site, but at what point are some going to question those feeding them this stuff. Maybe they don't toss GS under the table, maybe he doesn't plea out and wins his case,,,,,but this certainly feels like a nail in that coffin from where I am sitting. The discovery was done and their lawyers knew what the state had....so why flip if it was nothing at all. There was some legs to it...whether or not we want to believe it or not. Something was there.

 

[PSUPride1]

The state was unfair to drop those charges? LOL, you can't call the state corrupt as they dropped charge after charge and still these guys took a deal later on. What will you do when they are on the stand testifying against GS or he pleads out as well. Are you going to call their lawyers names or just blame the jury who was never picked? Get mad at me if you have to as I thought maybe they would go to trial and be exonerated, but it's pretty clear to me that with this deal they are CYA and going after GS now. Are you going to be calling them liars when they are on the stand?

Lajolla,
I said clearly mistakes were made. Once again, like many others, you're practicing putting the cart before the horse. Why don't you wait to see what happens or what they say. I don't think it's unreasonable to infer they didn't like their chances in a jury trial, regardless of how strong or weak the evidence is considering the toxic feelings most in this country have against them.
I think this is all a tragedy. I think they thought telling second mile was enough. But they should have reported to cys regardless of how weak Mike's story was. If they do that none of this happens. And of course Mike should have went to police if he witnessed a crime but I'm not rehashing that gutless coward.
Why do you have a hard time admitting the state largely shit the bed relative to this case. They dropped all of their charges except one. They obviously didn't feel they could win their case. Now it seems Spanier is on the hot seat. Let's see how it plays out. That said there was no cover-up here. Mistakes were made which ended up getting Penn State blamed for the entire situation which was wrong then and is wrong now.

 

[WeR0206]

The state was unfair to drop those charges? LOL, you can't call the state corrupt as they dropped charge after charge and still these guys took a deal later on. What will you do when they are on the stand testifying against GS or he pleads out as well. Are you going to call their lawyers names or just blame the jury who was never picked? Get mad at me if you have to as I thought maybe they would go to trial and be exonerated, but it's pretty clear to me that with this deal they are CYA and going after GS now. Are you going to be calling them liars when they are on the stand?

The only reason the state dropped those charges is because they were forced by a higher court to due to Baldwin/Fina/Feudale's illegal GJ shenanigans.

If the defendants didn't try and stick up for their constitutional rights by filing motions to quash then those charges most likely would remain today.

 

[kentuckycb]

Lajolla,
I said clearly mistakes were made. Once again, like many others, you're practicing putting the cart before the horse. Why don't you wait to see what happens or what they say. I don't think it's unreasonable to infer they didn't like their chances in a jury trial, regardless of how strong or weak the evidence is considering the toxic feelings most in this country have against them.
I think this is all a tragedy. I think they thought telling second mile was enough. But they should have reported to cys regardless of how weak Mike's story was. If they do that none of this happens. And of course Mike should have went to police if he witnessed a crime but I'm not rehashing that gutless coward.
Why do you have a hard time admitting the state largely shit the bed relative to this case. They dropped all of their charges except one. They obviously didn't feel they could win their case. Now it seems Spanier is on the hot seat. Let's see how it plays out. That said there was no cover-up here. Mistakes were made which ended up getting Penn State blamed for the entire situation which was wrong then and is wrong now.

Right, the same logic applies to the OAG. Why go through all this expense and time if your "conspiracy" case is so strong.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Lajolla,
I said clearly mistakes were made. Once again, like many others, you're practicing putting the cart before the horse. Why don't you wait to see what happens or what they say. I don't think it's unreasonable to infer they didn't like their chances in a jury trial, regardless of how strong or weak the evidence is considering the toxic feelings most in this country have against them.
I think this is all a tragedy. I think they thought telling second mile was enough. But they should have reported to cys regardless of how weak Mike's story was. If they do that none of this happens. And of course Mike should have went to police if he witnessed a crime but I'm not rehashing that gutless coward.
Why do you have a hard time admitting the state largely shit the bed relative to this case. They dropped all of their charges except one. They obviously didn't feel they could win their case. Now it seems Spanier is on the hot seat. Let's see how it plays out. That said there was no cover-up here. Mistakes were made which ended up getting Penn State blamed for the entire situation which was wrong then and is wrong now.

I get that, but they discussed more than just telling TSM and kind of left it open for some reason or another. I have no doubt they wish they could get a do over as do a ton of people everywhere around the state. I'm just guessing on what I think may occur now that they did take a deal and I imagine their sentence will probably depend on their testimony if the other trial takes place. I could be 100% wrong...wouldn't be the first or last time for that to occur.

 

[kentuckycb]

The only reason the state dropped those charges is because they were forced by a higher court to due to Baldwin/Fina/Feudale's illegal GJ shenanigans.

If the defendants didn't try and stick up for their constitutional rights by filing motions to quash then those charges most likely would remain today.

The perjury charge was still on the table for Curley after appeals court ruling (till OAG then dropped) and the conspiracy charge was/is still on the table for all three men.

 

[PSU2UNC]

I don't think they are going to take the stand for the state and say GS knew nothing. I think there is a reason why these two flipped together. I know the corrupt PA judicial card is an easy one to play on this site, but at what point are some going to question those feeding them this stuff. Maybe they don't toss GS under the table, maybe he doesn't plea out and wins his case,,,,,but this certainly feels like a nail in that coffin from where I am sitting. The discovery was done and their lawyers knew what the state had....so why flip if it was nothing at all. There was some legs to it...whether or not we want to believe it or not. Something was there.

Maybe they don't take the stand at all. You have no idea what the terms of their plea deal were.

Maybe Spanier knows he is going to win because of the newly released security clearance information, but Tim and Gary don't have that out. So they took the equivalent of a disorderly conduct plea to make sure they don't get screwed by an unfair jury.

 

[kentuckycb]

Maybe they don't take the stand at all. You have no idea what the terms of their plea deal were.

Maybe Spanier knows he is going to win because of the newly released security clearance information, but Tim and Gary don't have that out. So they took the equivalent of a disorderly conduct plea to make sure they don't get screwed by an unfair jury.

Bingo... if Curley and Schultz "flip" on Spanier, then that testimony would appear to directly conflict with their statements during Spanier's security investigation...then they are in federal trouble potentially.

 

[michnittlion]

Never fear .... Wick Sollers may someday yet release his "indisputable evidence" that Joe didn't know about 2001 in 1998.

59 months (and counting) ........

 

[Raffycorn]

Maybe they don't take the stand at all. You have no idea what the terms of their plea deal were.

Maybe Spanier knows he is going to win because of the newly released security clearance information, but Tim and Gary don't have that out. So they took the equivalent of a disorderly conduct plea to make sure they don't get screwed by an unfair jury.

Spanier has likely had the "newly released" security clearance information for years. I think it's an awfully big coincidence that Ziggy just happened to release this bombshell report "exonerating" Spanier on the same day that Curley and Schultz accept plea agreements and potentially agree to testify against Spanier - don't you?

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

Bingo... if Curley and Schultz "flip" on Spanier, then that testimony would appear to directly conflict with their statements during Spanier's security investigation...then they are in federal trouble potentially.

....unless they were granted immunity as part of the plea deal....

 

[Psychedelic_MackDaddy]

The "false narrative" centers solely around a conspiracy of cover up to protect the reputation of the football program.

There is still nothing in today's pleas (particularly when taken in light of what has been already dropped) to support the cover up narrative. C/S didn't plead guilty to conspiracy. That charge was dropped. They didn't plead guilty to perjury. That charge was dropped. They didn't plead guilty for failure to report. That too, was dropped. By their actions of dropping charges, the prosecution has admitted there is no proof to support the notion that anyone at PSU covered up a damn thing.

What they essentially pled guilty to was the equivalent of unknowingly holding the door for a bank robber that made away with cash concealed in his pockets without stirring the suspicion of the security guard or cameras. The prosecution first wanted to charge them with aiding and abetting a felony bank robbery but all they could prove - and using a pretty big stretch of misdemeanor standards of proof - was essentially negligence by someone who may or may have not had any indication the man leaving the bank had just robbed it.

Very nice analogy. Thanks for that.

 

[elvis63]

The "false narrative" centers solely around a conspiracy of cover up to protect the reputation of the football program.

There is still nothing in today's pleas (particularly when taken in light of what has been already dropped) to support the cover up narrative. C/S didn't plead guilty to conspiracy. That charge was dropped. They didn't plead guilty to perjury. That charge was dropped. They didn't plead guilty for failure to report. That too, was dropped. By their actions of dropping charges, the prosecution has admitted there is no proof to support the notion that anyone at PSU covered up a damn thing.

What they essentially pled guilty to was the equivalent of unknowingly holding the door for a bank robber that made away with cash concealed in his pockets without stirring the suspicion of the security guard or cameras. The prosecution first wanted to charge them with aiding and abetting a felony bank robbery but all they could prove - and using a pretty big stretch of misdemeanor standards of proof - was essentially negligence by someone who may or may have not had any indication the man leaving the bank had just robbed it.

The testimony will show whether they covered it up or not. And it's not just them, it's Harmon, McQueary, Bradley, Ganter , and probably others.

 

[mn78psu83]

Spanier has likely had the "newly released" security clearance information for years. I think it's an awfully big coincidence that Ziggy just happened to release this bombshell report "exonerating" Spanier on the same day that Curley and Schultz accept plea agreements and potentially agree to testify against Spanier - don't you?

To borrow from a legendary poster, "Coinkydinks?"

 

[elvis63]

Spanier has likely had the "newly released" security clearance information for years. I think it's an awfully big coincidence that Ziggy just happened to release this bombshell report "exonerating" Spanier on the same day that Curley and Schultz accept plea agreements and potentially agree to testify against Spanier - don't you?

Look for coincidences like that, I believe your take is correct. I'm sure some knew this plea was coming, people such as Spanier. They don't wake up and land in court for a plea deal. this had to be in the works over a week or more, and once certain things change in communication patterns, I'm sure Spanier's atty's knew.

 

[JayWye]

I don't think they are going to take the stand for the state and say GS knew nothing. I think there is a reason why these two flipped together. I know the corrupt PA judicial card is an easy one to play on this site, but at what point are some going to question those feeding them this stuff. Maybe they don't toss GS under the table, maybe he doesn't plea out and wins his case,,,,,but this certainly feels like a nail in that coffin from where I am sitting. The discovery was done and their lawyers knew what the state had....so why flip if it was nothing at all. There was some legs to it...whether or not we want to believe it or not. Something was there.

What was "there" has been there from the get-go. The incident wasn't reported to the appropriate authorities, and no effort was made to locate the kid for possible therapy...if it was called for. That, apparently, is (by definition) "Child Endangerment". So...if you see your neighbor beating his kid, you'd better call the cops. IMO, the bottom line...as already noted...is that all the "conspiracy to protect the football program" nonsense went out the window.

 

[elvis63]

Bingo... if Curley and Schultz "flip" on Spanier, then that testimony would appear to directly conflict with their statements during Spanier's security investigation...then they are in federal trouble potentially.

Not if that is part of a deal.

 

[psu7113]

Never fear .... Wick Sollers may someday yet release his "indisputable evidence" that Joe didn't know about 2001 in 1998.

59 months (and counting) ........

I can guarantee nobody knew about 2001 in 1998, except perhaps you....

 

[kentuckycb]

....unless they were granted immunity as part of the plea deal....

Granted immunity from federal prosecution? Unlikely IMO. Obviously the PA OAG cannot negotiate on behalf of the feds unless authorized to...again, unlikely IMO. Spanier's investigation involved a lot of government entities...it would be nearly impossible to get all these players on the same page to grant the immunity you're suggesting.

 

[Cletus11]

My theory:

C/S plead guilty. They didn't do so without a deal in place. The judge and prosecution are not going to come out and say it as they cannot. And the prosecution have to have a real good idea of what C/S are going to say to agree to a plea deal. So C/S plead guilty with a 'deal' in place that if they testify then the judge will give them a fine, some probation, and made some house arrest type of thing.

So what could C/S say that would be so juicy as to allow the prosecution to make them flip. Only thing I can think of is that C/S will say that they told Spanier what MM told them in their meeting. Same story that has been said all these times about horseplay, but MM never seeing a sexual act, only maybe implying it. C/S will say they told Spanier this and Spanier came up with the plan to talk to JS and Raykovitz. So C/S can testify essentially they were following orders of Spanier. Makes C/S look better in this situation and is a reason for the judge to not give them jailtime. The prosecution now has testimony from C/S that Spanier did know what was said at this meeting and Spanier came up with the plan. Spanier is the fish they want to fry as he is the one with the defamation suit and saying he is going to right a tell all book, so the powers that be want to keep him quiet.

 

[capkrokus]

Curley & Schultz throw in the towel.

Spanier about to get lit up in court in front of a jury.

No "Feds" investigating TSM or their BOD.

Freeh for all intents and purposes protected by a PA judge's ruling.

McQueary walks off with millions based on an ever changing story.

Sadly, PA youth are no safer today than when Jerry was roaming the streets because real lessons on the failure of the system intended to protect then have not been learned.

The OGBOT comes out unscathed.

The Alumni trustees elected to the BOT go silent... What happened to getting to the truth?

The Paterno family case marches on but what are they hoping to achieve? How long before they call it a day and move on?

In light of this trail of history... As much as I hate to say this... maybe the OGBOT did exactly the right thing for the greater good of PSU, they broke off all ties with the past and moved forward with new leadership. PSU can always emphasize "Success with Honor" but there is now no conceivable way I can see Joe Paterno ever being honored or getting credit for it.

The only possible good that comes from where we are... After more than five years we may finally be able to close the book on this mess. Thanks Jerry Sandusky. I hope it was all worth it for you.

What a tragedy!!

The Paterno case is live & well. NOBODY was ever convicted of a cover up/conspiracy, and JVP was never even charged with anything. Not to mention, the lead investigator going on record saying there "no evidence" of JVP being involved with a cover up.

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

Granted immunity from federal prosecution? Unlikely IMO. Obviously the PA OAG cannot negotiate on behalf of the feds unless authorized to...again, unlikely IMO. Spanier's investigation involved a lot of government entities...it would be nearly impossible to get all these players on the same page to grant the immunity you're suggesting.

I never said anything about federal prosecution.

 

[michnittlion]

I can guarantee nobody knew about 2001 in 1998, except perhaps you....

Cool. I look forward to Sollers releasing his "indisputable evidence." (his words, not mine)

 

[lionroar88]

I get that, but they discussed more than just telling TSM and kind of left it open for some reason or another. I have no doubt they wish they could get a do over as do a ton of people everywhere around the state. I'm just guessing on what I think may occur now that they did take a deal and I imagine their sentence will probably depend on their testimony if the other trial takes place. I could be 100% wrong...wouldn't be the first or last time for that to occur.

How could they 'prove' they DID contact CYS, when CYS's system purges any claim not acted upon? There is no 'proof' as the trail was completely wiped clean!

This fact is one that so many here have forgotten, or willingly chose to forget or ignore, to fit their agenda. And this was revealed before JS's trial, and was discussed during the trial... so don't come back and say that isn't the case.

TSM was the mandatory reporting agency, not PSU. As soon as Curley called TSM The State's case had no standing, but the corrupt judicial system in PA had to keep this going. Curley and Schultz pled to keep from facing a jury so corrupted by the media you would have to go to Jupiter to find someone who didn't know about this case.