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Tesla - exited short sale

blion72

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Jan 1, 2010
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a few months back there was alot of Tesla stock in a few threads. I went short on the stock and made about $40 per share on this short, but could not hang on - company is a tweet away from some irrational move. one my investor friends has some real b&lls and is set to short them @ $150. he is convinced they are running out of other people's money, and has alot of guts. his logic is they cannot make affordable cars at a profit, and it is not related to being a startup - they are over 10 years old. they are a car company that is not good at cars.

i have moved to the ride hailers (Uber and Lyft) and some of the food delivery guys (they are really over hyped). i hesitated on Uber two weeks ago - and they just came through with a $5.3B loss for this qtr - mostly stock comp, but still a big business loss. stock took 6.8% hit. i thought a $35 short would be great but now the stock is $40.
 
I like Tesla and how they have tried to transform the industry to electric car. The solar panels, batteries, etc...are ahead of it's time and something eventually everybody will have. But the debt they have is not sustainable. They will never make enough profit to pay off that debt load and then make money over top of that. Right now you just have a lot of investors who have hte big money are finding ways to get out before Tesla declares bankrupticy. Only way they can move ahead and be a business is to restructure.
 
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I like Tesla and how they have tried to transform the industry to electric car. The solar panels, batteries, etc...are ahead of it's time and something eventually everybody will have. But the debt they have is not sustainable. They will never make enough profit to pay off that debt load and then make money over top of that. Right now you just have a lot of investors who have hte big money are finding ways to get out before Tesla declares bankrupticy. Only way they can move ahead and be a business is to restructure.

i agree that some of their ideas could be the future, but that is not the same as the company. many investors dont know how to separate the company from the goal. when the SEC was coming down on Musk, it was interesting in the court fight that the judge was concerned about separating Musk from Tesla, and the impact on shareholders. most of the car companies are rapidly advancing in plug-in hybrids as well as EVs. it is not a winner take all market - and that is the problem with companies that come out of the Silicon Valley - most have been winner take all businesses. nobody knows how to value a company that goes public, loses billions and is only going to be a % of a market with lots of competitors - like most real businesses.
 
a few months back there was alot of Tesla stock in a few threads. I went short on the stock and made about $40 per share on this short, but could not hang on - company is a tweet away from some irrational move. one my investor friends has some real b&lls and is set to short them @ $150. he is convinced they are running out of other people's money, and has alot of guts. his logic is they cannot make affordable cars at a profit, and it is not related to being a startup - they are over 10 years old. they are a car company that is not good at cars.

By most accounts Tesla has made some great cars but I agree they haven't shown they can build and sell affordable cars at a profit. Rebates are running out and lots of established competitors are coming out with their own electric cars.
 
i agree that some of their ideas could be the future, but that is not the same as the company. many investors dont know how to separate the company from the goal. when the SEC was coming down on Musk, it was interesting in the court fight that the judge was concerned about separating Musk from Tesla, and the impact on shareholders. most of the car companies are rapidly advancing in plug-in hybrids as well as EVs. it is not a winner take all market - and that is the problem with companies that come out of the Silicon Valley - most have been winner take all businesses. nobody knows how to value a company that goes public, loses billions and is only going to be a % of a market with lots of competitors - like most real businesses.


i agree, Tesla at best will be a leader in the electric market but that just means they will get a market share. All the other car companies are also going electric and already have all the structure in place and huge brand recognition as car companies for decades so zero way Tesla can have a dominant market share position. which is the reason Tesla can never get out from under debt. And just being one of a luxury brand won't pay it back either.
 
My theory is:
Elon built the car company to drive demand for his batteries and always planned to sell off the car company to one of the big boys and sell them batteries. Problem is the big manufacturers are going it alone or tying-up with one another. Tesla car company is toast.
 
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My theory is:
Elon built the car company to drive demand for his batteries and always planned to sell off the car company to one of the big boys and sell them batteries. Problem is the big manufacturers are going it alone or tying-up with one another. Tesla car company is toast.

Musk & tesla don't make the batteries. Sure they buy a lot and likely have sweetheart deals with the manufacturer, but a cute bankruptcy and restructuring won't prevent others from getting in.

Their battery model already depends on others getting in & lowering costs via volume. Batteries don't follow Moore's Law. While they are a tech company, they have bet everything on a breakthrough there that changes everything.
 
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Panasonic makes the batteries. Tesla is also burdened with its purchase of home solar panels. Talk about a sucking chest wound. On the plus side it has all those emission credits it can sell to the other car companies, for now.
 
I don't know much about playing the stock market, but am dabbling and find the markets completely irrational. I'm playing the long-game, but geez, you really do pay for mistakes. It seems more like gambling as you buy on fundamentals, but really don't know what is going on with companies. Some good buys right now with all the volatility and uncertainty, re: trade wars, tariffs, indicators pointing toward slowdown, and the markets just punishing some companies.
 
My brother and I were talking about Tesla and electric cars earlier today. We look for a big company, likely a foreign company from S.Korea or China, to make a big entry into the electric car market. The batteries are the only real technology, and with the fact that electric cars have less parts in their drive systems, entry into the market in a big way looks easier than it is in the gas car markets. And companies such as Hyundai made big entries into that market over the last 15-25 years, so we look for a much faster transformation in the electric car market that will drive down prices as well....
 
My brother and I were talking about Tesla and electric cars earlier today. We look for a big company, likely a foreign company from S.Korea or China, to make a big entry into the electric car market. The batteries are the only real technology, and with the fact that electric cars have less parts in their drive systems, entry into the market in a big way looks easier than it is in the gas car markets. And companies such as Hyundai made big entries into that market over the last 15-25 years, so we look for a much faster transformation in the electric car market that will drive down prices as well....

the car companies that are built primarily on ICE tech have all quickly moved to EVs and/or plug-in hybrids. Mitsubishi moved one of their ICE SUVs to a plug-in hybrid. i believe Nissan is planning on doing same with either Rogue or Murano.
 
the car companies that are built primarily on ICE tech have all quickly moved to EVs and/or plug-in hybrids. Mitsubishi moved one of their ICE SUVs to a plug-in hybrid. i believe Nissan is planning on doing same with either Rogue or Murano.

In terms of EVs, no they haven’t
  • Tesla sold around 83,875 vehicles in the US between January and June, InsideEVs estimated, over 10 times the number of vehicles sold by General Motors, which came in second in the rankings.
It’s easy for an ICE car company to make a plug in hybrid because...they use an ICE engine. Much more difficult to switch to making a vehicle with a completely different engine while successfully having the same sales people sell each
 
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I bought TSLA early at 25 and cashed out at 90. Definitely got out too soon and had to stop watching the stock entirely for a while as it skyrocketed but still a nice return.
 
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The Solar City debt is a weight around the company’s neck but the legacy automakers have huge challenges ahead of them as they switch over to electric.

First, the current dealer model is unsustainable when you take revenue from routine engine maintenance out of the equation. How do you incentivize dealers to sell cars that put themselves out of business?

Second, legacy automakers need to build a national fast-charge infrastructure. Tesla has a huge head start there.

Third, legacy automakers are at least 5 years behind in terms of drive train efficiency. The first serious EV offerings by the luxury carmakers - the new Audi eTron, Jaguar i-Pace and Mercedes EQC - all have lower efficiency and shorter range than a 2012 Tesla Model S. So all of the decades of accumulated know-how and investment in things like engine design, transmissions, catalytic converters- all becomes valueless and instead they need to build competency in battery pack/motor design and thermal management systems. If they shift to 3rd party battery and drivetrain suppliers, their profitability will implode.

Lastly, autonomy will eventually require shifting to a software-first design approach. None of the legacy carmakers have crossed that chasm yet.

So while Tesla is kind of a mess, their growth isn’t predicated in killing their existing business as is the case for the current leaders.
 
one Tesla strength that you realize when you drive one ... they have an unbelievable driver interface for capability and ease of use.

I am reading that the new Tesla Three model is viewed as a superior EV drivetrain system that should eventually replace the S and X model systems.
 
The Solar City debt is a weight around the company’s neck but the legacy automakers have huge challenges ahead of them as they switch over to electric.

First, the current dealer model is unsustainable when you take revenue from routine engine maintenance out of the equation. How do you incentivize dealers to sell cars that put themselves out of business?

Second, legacy automakers need to build a national fast-charge infrastructure. Tesla has a huge head start there.

Third, legacy automakers are at least 5 years behind in terms of drive train efficiency. The first serious EV offerings by the luxury carmakers - the new Audi eTron, Jaguar i-Pace and Mercedes EQC - all have lower efficiency and shorter range than a 2012 Tesla Model S. So all of the decades of accumulated know-how and investment in things like engine design, transmissions, catalytic converters- all becomes valueless and instead they need to build competency in battery pack/motor design and thermal management systems. If they shift to 3rd party battery and drivetrain suppliers, their profitability will implode.

Lastly, autonomy will eventually require shifting to a software-first design approach. None of the legacy carmakers have crossed that chasm yet.

So while Tesla is kind of a mess, their growth isn’t predicated in killing their existing business as is the case for the current leaders.

Musk made Tesla's patents open, or whatever the term is.
 
one Tesla strength that you realize when you drive one ... they have an unbelievable driver interface for capability and ease of use.

I am reading that the new Tesla Three model is viewed as a superior EV drivetrain system that should eventually replace the S and X model systems.

I read where Tesla's display is actually bought by the company and does not meet the most stringent requirements for automotive use. In hot climates this has apparently caused some expensive problems for Tesla.
 
I read where Tesla's display is actually bought by the company and does not meet the most stringent requirements for automotive use. In hot climates this has apparently caused some expensive problems for Tesla.

They definately do not make the view screen. Possibly on your hot climate point.

I was referencing the software .....
 
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This is one of the more enjoyable non-football threads in recent memory. Keep up the great work!
 
Agreed. Unlike football discussions, it’s amazing how knowledgeable everyone is ;). Alot of posters here obviously know alot about this....alot of enjoyment on my part.

Seriously though, having paid little attention to Tesla, this is an enjoyable and informative thread
 
The Solar City debt is a weight around the company’s neck but the legacy automakers have huge challenges ahead of them as they switch over to electric.

First, the current dealer model is unsustainable when you take revenue from routine engine maintenance out of the equation. How do you incentivize dealers to sell cars that put themselves out of business?

Second, legacy automakers need to build a national fast-charge infrastructure. Tesla has a huge head start there.

Third, legacy automakers are at least 5 years behind in terms of drive train efficiency. The first serious EV offerings by the luxury carmakers - the new Audi eTron, Jaguar i-Pace and Mercedes EQC - all have lower efficiency and shorter range than a 2012 Tesla Model S. So all of the decades of accumulated know-how and investment in things like engine design, transmissions, catalytic converters- all becomes valueless and instead they need to build competency in battery pack/motor design and thermal management systems. If they shift to 3rd party battery and drivetrain suppliers, their profitability will implode.

Lastly, autonomy will eventually require shifting to a software-first design approach. None of the legacy carmakers have crossed that chasm yet.

So while Tesla is kind of a mess, their growth isn’t predicated in killing their existing business as is the case for the current leaders.

agree with the fast charge infrastructure - but that will take time. that is why hybrids can be a great intermediate strategy. this is like when mankind went from sail to coal power on the ocean - there was a period with both technologies in parallel for fear of running out of coal.

assuming that government regulation does not impede autonomy, a number of these companies will all arrive ready about the same time. that is a fully autonomous system capable of working in all driving conditions/locations and without a continuous connection to any external source. that is full sensing and control on-board. I attend the industry conferences on this topic, and in terms of pure engineering talent/know-how and advanced demos a number have caught Waymo. Ford and BMW may be the closest. the regulators are starting to attend the meetings also, so it is unclear what may happen there.

bottom line Musk did not start Tesla with the idea he needed autonomy to be profitable. he though he could make money straight up on an EV only platform. maybe he could in time.....but he has continued to need funding almost like a VC funded firm. he has 9000 workers in the plant and on a ratio of workers to vehicle production that is the least efficient plant in the world in terms of labor. he also has one of the highest ratios of post production line repairs (pre-shipment). those all can be fixed in time.

it is all timing - the car company may be successful in the long term but will they run out of other people's money before they get there. even if they do, someone will step in and acquire them at a reasonable price.

you are 100% right Tesla should not have acquired Solar City and the tremendous downstream liability they signed up for on that company.
 
Musk & tesla don't make the batteries. Sure they buy a lot and likely have sweetheart deals with the manufacturer, but a cute bankruptcy and restructuring won't prevent others from getting in.

Their battery model already depends on others getting in & lowering costs via volume. Batteries don't follow Moore's Law. While they are a tech company, they have bet everything on a breakthrough there that changes everything.


Pink, o_O they have 3 Giga factories and alone will supply the world with the Ion batteries needed for all electric cars.
 
My theory is:
Elon built the car company to drive demand for his batteries and always planned to sell off the car company to one of the big boys and sell them batteries. Problem is the big manufacturers are going it alone or tying-up with one another. Tesla car company is toast.

Musk & tesla don't make the batteries. Sure they buy a lot and likely have sweetheart deals with the manufacturer, but a cute bankruptcy and restructuring won't prevent others from getting in.

Their battery model already depends on others getting in & lowering costs via volume. Batteries don't follow Moore's Law. While they are a tech company, they have bet everything on a breakthrough there that changes everything.

My bad. I thought the GigaFactory in Nevada was set up to make Tesla batteries.
 
My bad. I thought the GigaFactory in Nevada was set up to make Tesla batteries.

Panasonic makes the batteries at the Nevada Gigafactory and rolls them directly into battery pack manufacturing - so they are fully integrated. Tesla also builds the Model 3 drivetrains there.
 
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My brother and I were talking about Tesla and electric cars earlier today. We look for a big company, likely a foreign company from S.Korea or China, to make a big entry into the electric car market. The batteries are the only real technology, and with the fact that electric cars have less parts in their drive systems, entry into the market in a big way looks easier than it is in the gas car markets. And companies such as Hyundai made big entries into that market over the last 15-25 years, so we look for a much faster transformation in the electric car market that will drive down prices as well....
Maybe the Koreans, but the Chinese are focused on their EV market (as is GM at the moment, though they will also sell in US).
 
Maybe the Koreans, but the Chinese are focused on their EV market (as is GM at the moment, though they will also sell in US).
The Koreans are well positioned but the new Hyundai Kona EV exemplifies the challenge that established automakers are facing. It’s a compelling crossover with solid range and a reasonable price tag, but it is only available in the 10 or so states that follow California’s emissions regulations. With the $7500 federal rebate, it should be crushing it. Yet, it’s limited availability and indifference on the sales floor are slowing its adoption
 
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By most accounts Tesla has made some great cars but I agree they haven't shown they can build and sell affordable cars at a profit. Rebates are running out and lots of established competitors are coming out with their own electric cars.



Jack Ricard has been building electric cars for long time, before Tesla even shipped the roadster. He has torn apart and reverse engineered many of the electric cars on the market.

Here is his take on Tesla:

http://evtv.me/2019/08/the-tesla-conspiracy-or-am-i-a-dead-whistleblower/

Here is just part of his post:

It is also arguably the SAFEST car ever built. There is actually a current imbroglio over this between Tesla and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. They test cars for safety in a number of categories and indeed assign a point score in each category. That then is translated to a “star” rating with 1 star being very minimal and 5 stars being the maximum that can be awarded. Not only did Tesla achieve a five star rating in ALL categories tested, but the point score was the highest ever achieved at NHTSA by any car.

Tesla proudly announced this fact to anyone who would listen. And NHTSA takes strong exception to this. Note that they don’t actually deny any of Tesla’s claims, but they are incensed that Tesla would divulge point scores or make any statements beyond the official number of stars awarded. This is some sort of governmental attempt to limit what you can SAY about a publicly funded and governmentally administered test.

So my claim is that Tesla makes the BEST automotive vehicle on the planet, barring none, in all respects, including SAFETY. It is just the best car ever built. And I would challenge anyone to demonstrate even partially that this is not so.

Let’s take a look at Tesla’s car production figures. They just finished their LARGEST production quarter with some 87048 vehicles produced. They DELIVERED over 95,000 vehicles in the quarter, also a record, but that is because 8000ish vehicles produced in the first quarter were not delivered until the second.

Let’s take a look at a couple of things. Q2 2015, two years AFTER the Model S became WIDELY available, they produced 12807 vehicles. That’s 679% growth in four years or 170% per year.

Part of the “short thesis” is that Tesla cannot produce enough cars to meet demand. And a second part of the short thesis is that there won’t be demand for the cars they produce. What am I supposed to do with this? Two mutually exclusive and totally unlikely factoids issuing from the same potato disposer simultaneously.

Again, Tesla doesn’t advertise for a very cunning reason. It doesn’t work at all. The public trust in commercial messaging has now broached zero and has gone into negative numbers. Mike’s Pillow really was NOT the best night’s sleep I ever had. And basically 100% of the public discounts ALL of 100% of the commercial messaging it sees.

But we do still largely trust our friends and associates. And so if you see a Tesla, better get to ride in a friends Tesla, better yet he lets you DRIVE their Tesla, you want one. Period. I’ve never HEARD of anyone riding in a Tesla who did not immediately conclude that they wanted the car.

Could they afford the car? Did they need a car? Did they already have a car? All open and valid questions. But they did WANT THAT ONE on contact.

Now there are any number of reasons why people buy the cars they buy. But few actually take aim at being the personal owner of the SECOND best car in the world. It’s like going on ALLRECIPES.COM and searching out the SECOND BEST lasagna recipe. For what???

You might well make the fifth most popular lasagna recipe, because you are vegan and don’t want any meat in your lasagna. But you KNOW you aren’t getting the best.

I have a couple of viewers who have advised me in the last week they were picking up a Model X and Model 3 respectively. They’ve known about Tesla for years. They have wanted a Tesla for years. They are both buying one this week.

So my claim from observation and intimate knowledge, is that Tesla can sell all they can make and they can do so at essentially any price they want. It is a growing demand and totally inelastic and agnostic. It grows by contact. The more they make and deliver, the more people have contact with the cars and the more demand is generated for all that they make.

How far does this extend? How LONG can you sustain 170% compounded growth?

You know, that SHOULD be the defining question. And I’m unusually pleased to note that it is not because it is one of those astonishing things that just tickle my sense of whimsey when I come across them.

EVTV has largely ceased to convert ICE cars to electric drive, which was long our only reason for life. It started in 2009 and while the Tesla Roadster was much discussed, not a single one had ever been actually delivered. If you wanted an electric car in the spring of 2009, you had to build one. There were ZERO models offered by the sum total of all automotive manufacturers worldwide. We defined, aided, abetted, and enabled the tinkerer/innovator stage of the adoption curve and noted numerous times that on achieving “early adopter” phase we were out of it.

I lied. The outcome was SO assured that by 2017 my mind, with the laser like focus and attention span of a four-year-old, just wandered away. This no longer requires my efforts. The outcome is assured.

And Tesla was largely the reason. Basically it costs between $20-40,000 to do a good build converting an ICE car to electric drive.
Tilt and tittle at that all you want, I did a lot of them and a lot of different ways and several were over $100k. Not really unusual among custom car enthusiasts and I expect those guys will be doing electric conversion show cars 50 years from now.

The Model 3 at $40k is a better car than I can do at $40k.

Worse, it is kind of a one sided launch. We covered the news of LOTS of different electric cars, and most notably HUNDREDS of VW press releases that never were actually cars. And the conclusion was that it just doesn’t matter. Porsche and BMW were the only ones that had the right stuff to compete with TEsla and they didn’t. All else didn’t matter and couldn’t matter. And yes, Porsche’s Taycan will launch this September 4th and they are going to sell 30,000 or 40,000 of them and THEY STILL WON’T MATTER.

Tesla just owns it. And at this point, the moats of its battery technology and costing, its Supercharger network, it’s online sales model, the Over the Air Software Updates, and much much more put it SO far out ahead, that the other manufacturers are still announcing the “coming Tesla killer” aimed at the 2013 Tesla Model S. Problem: It is 2019.

And so we basically got out of converting EV’s BEFORE we got to the early adopter stage. I lied. Because the outcome is not just assured, it is unstoppable.

But if all else fails, the commonly held marker for the BEGINNING of Everett Rogets adoption curve early adopter stage is 2.5% market penetration.

So where are we at? The current global market for automobiles is a little squishy on your definition of an automobile, but as a personal transportation device is currently widely regarded as 78 million units annually with about 15 million in the U.S.

The short thesis is that Tesla CANNOT POSSIBLY meet their projections of 360,000 units this year. Duh. That’s 0.0046 or 0.46%.
ALL electric cars from EVERYBODY all told don’t reach 1% of the market for cars. We aren’t even CLOSE to the “early adopter” stage.

I’m at the point where if you don’t have Tesla logo on your car you’re not electric and don’t matter. To the point that we are working furiously on things like an OBDII port adapter for the Model 3, or reverse engineering Tesla batteries, not EV batteries, TESLA batteries for solar energy storage. I have a half finished Cadillac Escalade conversion hanging in the air on a lift where it has hung for a year.

But the blue sky for Tesla is essentially UNLIMITED. They can sell all they make and make all they sell starting at 360,000 units and topping out at 78 million. They are 0.46% of a $2.3 TRILLION dollar market. And they appear to my biased eye to already own ALL of it.
It reminds me of Sandra Bullock and Sylvester Stallone, in the movie DEMOLITION MAN. In the future, ALL restaurants had consolidated under the brand name TACO BELL. If SOMEBODY doesn’t do SOMETHING pretty quickly, in the future ALL automobiles will be Tesla’s.

Hyperbole? I grow weak in the knees publicly repeating a prediction I have quietly been making for years. It is so unbelievable all I can harvest from it now is ridicule. But you are not going to BELIEVE the big names and huge corporations that face unavoidable and absolute bankruptcy and dismemberment, in the VERY NEAR future. No government can save them. Hundreds of thousands if not millions of jobs lost. Economic disruption and dislocation of unparalleled proportions. Office furniture available for 6 cents on the dollar. Not reorganization. But like Eastman Kodak. Sears. K-Mart. Companies that could not fail and are already gone. Picture GM, VW, Daimler. The biggest. The best.
 
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I’m just here to say “alot” is two words. It’s “a lot.” It is never one word. I don’t even know how your device lets you misspell it, and how you’ve gone so far in life without people telling you. It’s third grade curriculum.

The comma in the bold words above doesn't belong there. It makes the sentence too choppy. The conjunction is sufficient without the punctuation.

(It's a real ego boost to go all pedantic.)
 
Jack Ricard has been building electric cars for long time, before Tesla even shipped the roadster. He has torn apart and reverse engineered many of the electric cars on the market.

Here is his take on Tesla:

http://evtv.me/2019/08/the-tesla-conspiracy-or-am-i-a-dead-whistleblower/

Here is just part of his post:

It is also arguably the SAFEST car ever built. There is actually a current imbroglio over this between Tesla and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. They test cars for safety in a number of categories and indeed assign a point score in each category. That then is translated to a “star” rating with 1 star being very minimal and 5 stars being the maximum that can be awarded. Not only did Tesla achieve a five star rating in ALL categories tested, but the point score was the highest ever achieved at NHTSA by any car.

Tesla proudly announced this fact to anyone who would listen. And NHTSA takes strong exception to this. Note that they don’t actually deny any of Tesla’s claims, but they are incensed that Tesla would divulge point scores or make any statements beyond the official number of stars awarded. This is some sort of governmental attempt to limit what you can SAY about a publicly funded and governmentally administered test.

So my claim is that Tesla makes the BEST automotive vehicle on the planet, barring none, in all respects, including SAFETY. It is just the best car ever built. And I would challenge anyone to demonstrate even partially that this is not so.

Let’s take a look at Tesla’s car production figures. They just finished their LARGEST production quarter with some 87048 vehicles produced. They DELIVERED over 95,000 vehicles in the quarter, also a record, but that is because 8000ish vehicles produced in the first quarter were not delivered until the second.

Let’s take a look at a couple of things. Q2 2015, two years AFTER the Model S became WIDELY available, they produced 12807 vehicles. That’s 679% growth in four years or 170% per year.

Part of the “short thesis” is that Tesla cannot produce enough cars to meet demand. And a second part of the short thesis is that there won’t be demand for the cars they produce. What am I supposed to do with this? Two mutually exclusive and totally unlikely factoids issuing from the same potato disposer simultaneously.

Again, Tesla doesn’t advertise for a very cunning reason. It doesn’t work at all. The public trust in commercial messaging has now broached zero and has gone into negative numbers. Mike’s Pillow really was NOT the best night’s sleep I ever had. And basically 100% of the public discounts ALL of 100% of the commercial messaging it sees.

But we do still largely trust our friends and associates. And so if you see a Tesla, better get to ride in a friends Tesla, better yet he lets you DRIVE their Tesla, you want one. Period. I’ve never HEARD of anyone riding in a Tesla who did not immediately conclude that they wanted the car.

Could they afford the car? Did they need a car? Did they already have a car? All open and valid questions. But they did WANT THAT ONE on contact.

Now there are any number of reasons why people buy the cars they buy. But few actually take aim at being the personal owner of the SECOND best car in the world. It’s like going on ALLRECIPES.COM and searching out the SECOND BEST lasagna recipe. For what???

You might well make the fifth most popular lasagna recipe, because you are vegan and don’t want any meat in your lasagna. But you KNOW you aren’t getting the best.

I have a couple of viewers who have advised me in the last week they were picking up a Model X and Model 3 respectively. They’ve known about Tesla for years. They have wanted a Tesla for years. They are both buying one this week.

So my claim from observation and intimate knowledge, is that Tesla can sell all they can make and they can do so at essentially any price they want. It is a growing demand and totally inelastic and agnostic. It grows by contact. The more they make and deliver, the more people have contact with the cars and the more demand is generated for all that they make.

How far does this extend? How LONG can you sustain 170% compounded growth?

You know, that SHOULD be the defining question. And I’m unusually pleased to note that it is not because it is one of those astonishing things that just tickle my sense of whimsey when I come across them.

EVTV has largely ceased to convert ICE cars to electric drive, which was long our only reason for life. It started in 2009 and while the Tesla Roadster was much discussed, not a single one had ever been actually delivered. If you wanted an electric car in the spring of 2009, you had to build one. There were ZERO models offered by the sum total of all automotive manufacturers worldwide. We defined, aided, abetted, and enabled the tinkerer/innovator stage of the adoption curve and noted numerous times that on achieving “early adopter” phase we were out of it.

I lied. The outcome was SO assured that by 2017 my mind, with the laser like focus and attention span of a four-year-old, just wandered away. This no longer requires my efforts. The outcome is assured.

And Tesla was largely the reason. Basically it costs between $20-40,000 to do a good build converting an ICE car to electric drive.
Tilt and tittle at that all you want, I did a lot of them and a lot of different ways and several were over $100k. Not really unusual among custom car enthusiasts and I expect those guys will be doing electric conversion show cars 50 years from now.

The Model 3 at $40k is a better car than I can do at $40k.

Worse, it is kind of a one sided launch. We covered the news of LOTS of different electric cars, and most notably HUNDREDS of VW press releases that never were actually cars. And the conclusion was that it just doesn’t matter. Porsche and BMW were the only ones that had the right stuff to compete with TEsla and they didn’t. All else didn’t matter and couldn’t matter. And yes, Porsche’s Taycan will launch this September 4th and they are going to sell 30,000 or 40,000 of them and THEY STILL WON’T MATTER.

Tesla just owns it. And at this point, the moats of its battery technology and costing, its Supercharger network, it’s online sales model, the Over the Air Software Updates, and much much more put it SO far out ahead, that the other manufacturers are still announcing the “coming Tesla killer” aimed at the 2013 Tesla Model S. Problem: It is 2019.

And so we basically got out of converting EV’s BEFORE we got to the early adopter stage. I lied. Because the outcome is not just assured, it is unstoppable.

But if all else fails, the commonly held marker for the BEGINNING of Everett Rogets adoption curve early adopter stage is 2.5% market penetration.

So where are we at? The current global market for automobiles is a little squishy on your definition of an automobile, but as a personal transportation device is currently widely regarded as 78 million units annually with about 15 million in the U.S.

The short thesis is that Tesla CANNOT POSSIBLY meet their projections of 360,000 units this year. Duh. That’s 0.0046 or 0.46%.
ALL electric cars from EVERYBODY all told don’t reach 1% of the market for cars. We aren’t even CLOSE to the “early adopter” stage.

I’m at the point where if you don’t have Tesla logo on your car you’re not electric and don’t matter. To the point that we are working furiously on things like an OBDII port adapter for the Model 3, or reverse engineering Tesla batteries, not EV batteries, TESLA batteries for solar energy storage. I have a half finished Cadillac Escalade conversion hanging in the air on a lift where it has hung for a year.

But the blue sky for Tesla is essentially UNLIMITED. They can sell all they make and make all they sell starting at 360,000 units and topping out at 78 million. They are 0.46% of a $2.3 TRILLION dollar market. And they appear to my biased eye to already own ALL of it.
It reminds me of Sandra Bullock and Sylvester Stallone, in the movie DEMOLITION MAN. In the future, ALL restaurants had consolidated under the brand name TACO BELL. If SOMEBODY doesn’t do SOMETHING pretty quickly, in the future ALL automobiles will be Tesla’s.

Hyperbole? I grow weak in the knees publicly repeating a prediction I have quietly been making for years. It is so unbelievable all I can harvest from it now is ridicule. But you are not going to BELIEVE the big names and huge corporations that face unavoidable and absolute bankruptcy and dismemberment, in the VERY NEAR future. No government can save them. Hundreds of thousands if not millions of jobs lost. Economic disruption and dislocation of unparalleled proportions. Office furniture available for 6 cents on the dollar. Not reorganization. But like Eastman Kodak. Sears. K-Mart. Companies that could not fail and are already gone. Picture GM, VW, Daimler. The biggest. The best.
What's your point? You aren't going back to profits don't matter, are you?

P.S. I'm surprised you would buy into an article that acknowledges "in a world where all our long trusted television news shows, and institutions such as the Department of Justice, the State Department, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation have been exposed as deeply corrupt rotten to the core partisan organizations infested with dishonesty and corruption"
 
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Jack Ricard has been building electric cars for long time, before Tesla even shipped the roadster. He has torn apart and reverse engineered many of the electric cars on the market.

Here is his take on Tesla:

http://evtv.me/2019/08/the-tesla-conspiracy-or-am-i-a-dead-whistleblower/

Here is just part of his post:

It is also arguably the SAFEST car ever built. There is actually a current imbroglio over this between Tesla and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. They test cars for safety in a number of categories and indeed assign a point score in each category. That then is translated to a “star” rating with 1 star being very minimal and 5 stars being the maximum that can be awarded. Not only did Tesla achieve a five star rating in ALL categories tested, but the point score was the highest ever achieved at NHTSA by any car.

Tesla proudly announced this fact to anyone who would listen. And NHTSA takes strong exception to this. Note that they don’t actually deny any of Tesla’s claims, but they are incensed that Tesla would divulge point scores or make any statements beyond the official number of stars awarded. This is some sort of governmental attempt to limit what you can SAY about a publicly funded and governmentally administered test.

So my claim is that Tesla makes the BEST automotive vehicle on the planet, barring none, in all respects, including SAFETY. It is just the best car ever built. And I would challenge anyone to demonstrate even partially that this is not so.

Let’s take a look at Tesla’s car production figures. They just finished their LARGEST production quarter with some 87048 vehicles produced. They DELIVERED over 95,000 vehicles in the quarter, also a record, but that is because 8000ish vehicles produced in the first quarter were not delivered until the second.

Let’s take a look at a couple of things. Q2 2015, two years AFTER the Model S became WIDELY available, they produced 12807 vehicles. That’s 679% growth in four years or 170% per year.

Part of the “short thesis” is that Tesla cannot produce enough cars to meet demand. And a second part of the short thesis is that there won’t be demand for the cars they produce. What am I supposed to do with this? Two mutually exclusive and totally unlikely factoids issuing from the same potato disposer simultaneously.

Again, Tesla doesn’t advertise for a very cunning reason. It doesn’t work at all. The public trust in commercial messaging has now broached zero and has gone into negative numbers. Mike’s Pillow really was NOT the best night’s sleep I ever had. And basically 100% of the public discounts ALL of 100% of the commercial messaging it sees.

But we do still largely trust our friends and associates. And so if you see a Tesla, better get to ride in a friends Tesla, better yet he lets you DRIVE their Tesla, you want one. Period. I’ve never HEARD of anyone riding in a Tesla who did not immediately conclude that they wanted the car.

Could they afford the car? Did they need a car? Did they already have a car? All open and valid questions. But they did WANT THAT ONE on contact.

Now there are any number of reasons why people buy the cars they buy. But few actually take aim at being the personal owner of the SECOND best car in the world. It’s like going on ALLRECIPES.COM and searching out the SECOND BEST lasagna recipe. For what???

You might well make the fifth most popular lasagna recipe, because you are vegan and don’t want any meat in your lasagna. But you KNOW you aren’t getting the best.

I have a couple of viewers who have advised me in the last week they were picking up a Model X and Model 3 respectively. They’ve known about Tesla for years. They have wanted a Tesla for years. They are both buying one this week.

So my claim from observation and intimate knowledge, is that Tesla can sell all they can make and they can do so at essentially any price they want. It is a growing demand and totally inelastic and agnostic. It grows by contact. The more they make and deliver, the more people have contact with the cars and the more demand is generated for all that they make.

How far does this extend? How LONG can you sustain 170% compounded growth?

You know, that SHOULD be the defining question. And I’m unusually pleased to note that it is not because it is one of those astonishing things that just tickle my sense of whimsey when I come across them.

EVTV has largely ceased to convert ICE cars to electric drive, which was long our only reason for life. It started in 2009 and while the Tesla Roadster was much discussed, not a single one had ever been actually delivered. If you wanted an electric car in the spring of 2009, you had to build one. There were ZERO models offered by the sum total of all automotive manufacturers worldwide. We defined, aided, abetted, and enabled the tinkerer/innovator stage of the adoption curve and noted numerous times that on achieving “early adopter” phase we were out of it.

I lied. The outcome was SO assured that by 2017 my mind, with the laser like focus and attention span of a four-year-old, just wandered away. This no longer requires my efforts. The outcome is assured.

And Tesla was largely the reason. Basically it costs between $20-40,000 to do a good build converting an ICE car to electric drive.
Tilt and tittle at that all you want, I did a lot of them and a lot of different ways and several were over $100k. Not really unusual among custom car enthusiasts and I expect those guys will be doing electric conversion show cars 50 years from now.

The Model 3 at $40k is a better car than I can do at $40k.

Worse, it is kind of a one sided launch. We covered the news of LOTS of different electric cars, and most notably HUNDREDS of VW press releases that never were actually cars. And the conclusion was that it just doesn’t matter. Porsche and BMW were the only ones that had the right stuff to compete with TEsla and they didn’t. All else didn’t matter and couldn’t matter. And yes, Porsche’s Taycan will launch this September 4th and they are going to sell 30,000 or 40,000 of them and THEY STILL WON’T MATTER.

Tesla just owns it. And at this point, the moats of its battery technology and costing, its Supercharger network, it’s online sales model, the Over the Air Software Updates, and much much more put it SO far out ahead, that the other manufacturers are still announcing the “coming Tesla killer” aimed at the 2013 Tesla Model S. Problem: It is 2019.

And so we basically got out of converting EV’s BEFORE we got to the early adopter stage. I lied. Because the outcome is not just assured, it is unstoppable.

But if all else fails, the commonly held marker for the BEGINNING of Everett Rogets adoption curve early adopter stage is 2.5% market penetration.

So where are we at? The current global market for automobiles is a little squishy on your definition of an automobile, but as a personal transportation device is currently widely regarded as 78 million units annually with about 15 million in the U.S.

The short thesis is that Tesla CANNOT POSSIBLY meet their projections of 360,000 units this year. Duh. That’s 0.0046 or 0.46%.
ALL electric cars from EVERYBODY all told don’t reach 1% of the market for cars. We aren’t even CLOSE to the “early adopter” stage.

I’m at the point where if you don’t have Tesla logo on your car you’re not electric and don’t matter. To the point that we are working furiously on things like an OBDII port adapter for the Model 3, or reverse engineering Tesla batteries, not EV batteries, TESLA batteries for solar energy storage. I have a half finished Cadillac Escalade conversion hanging in the air on a lift where it has hung for a year.

But the blue sky for Tesla is essentially UNLIMITED. They can sell all they make and make all they sell starting at 360,000 units and topping out at 78 million. They are 0.46% of a $2.3 TRILLION dollar market. And they appear to my biased eye to already own ALL of it.
It reminds me of Sandra Bullock and Sylvester Stallone, in the movie DEMOLITION MAN. In the future, ALL restaurants had consolidated under the brand name TACO BELL. If SOMEBODY doesn’t do SOMETHING pretty quickly, in the future ALL automobiles will be Tesla’s.

Hyperbole? I grow weak in the knees publicly repeating a prediction I have quietly been making for years. It is so unbelievable all I can harvest from it now is ridicule. But you are not going to BELIEVE the big names and huge corporations that face unavoidable and absolute bankruptcy and dismemberment, in the VERY NEAR future. No government can save them. Hundreds of thousands if not millions of jobs lost. Economic disruption and dislocation of unparalleled proportions. Office furniture available for 6 cents on the dollar. Not reorganization. But like Eastman Kodak. Sears. K-Mart. Companies that could not fail and are already gone. Picture GM, VW, Daimler. The biggest. The best.
I smell a PSU grad desperately trying to defend her/his employer. My advice is to update your resume, interview like tomorrow might not occur, and plunge forward....
 
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What's your point? You aren't going back to profits don't matter, are you?

P.S. I'm surprised you would buy into an article that acknowledges "in a world where all our long trusted television news shows, and institutions such as the Department of Justice, the State Department, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation have been exposed as deeply corrupt rotten to the core partisan organizations infested with dishonesty and corruption"

I'm sure you are surprised all the time. You will get used to it.
 
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that author misses the point a little. nobody is saying that Tesla cars are not awesome and the best vehicle on the road. the point is that Tesla cannot make enough money to pay their debt load and still make a profit. Just look at Amazon and Wal Mart suing Tesla solar. you know how many solar panels tesla has financed out there that could go bad and then all that debt on top of it.

the point is Tesla will declare bankruptcy to get out from under all that debt and the move forward from where they are now which is the leader in battery and EV technology but without the billions in debt.
 
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