Tesla - exited short sale

[bdgan]

Ask an intelligent question and I will do my best to answer.

You can't recognize an intelligent question.

You post a long article about the quality of Tesla vehicles. Nobody ever contested that. The questions are (1) Can they manufacture and sell their cars profitably?, and (2) Will they be able to sustain an intellectual property advantage over other more experienced producers who are rapidly catching up with EVs?

So again, what's your point?

 

[rumble_lion]

You can't recognize an intelligent question.

You post a long article about the quality of Tesla vehicles. Nobody ever contested that. The questions are (1) Can they manufacture and sell their cars profitably?, and (2) Will they be able to sustain an intellectual property advantage over other more experienced producers who are rapidly catching up with EVs?

So again, what's your point?

I only posted part of the article. Read whole thing via the link I provided.

 

[rumble_lion]

I only posted part of the article. Read whole thing via the link I provided.

You can't recognize an intelligent question.

You post a long article about the quality of Tesla vehicles. Nobody ever contested that. The questions are (1) Can they manufacture and sell their cars profitably?, and (2) Will they be able to sustain an intellectual property advantage over other more experienced producers who are rapidly catching up with EVs?

So again, what's your point?

over other more experienced producers who are rapidly catching up with EVs?

Who is rapidly catching up to Tesla? Which manufacture is currently selling a better EV than the 2012 Tesla Model S?

 

[bdgan]

over other more experienced producers who are rapidly catching up with EVs?

Who is rapidly catching up to Tesla? Which manufacture is currently selling a better EV than the 2012 Tesla Model S?

Volkswagen, Mercedes, BMW, etc. are catching up fast.

 

[rumble_lion]

Volkswagen, Mercedes, etc. are catching up fast.

Hehe, yeah, Volkswagon is at least trying somewhat.

Of course they did make this silly prediction in 2013 so you have laugh if think they are "catching up" to anyone in EVs:

https://www.greencarreports.com/new...he-biggest-electric-car-maker-in-2018-it-says

Nonetheless, Volkswagen Group will be the world leader in electric and hybrid cars by 2018.

It says.

The bold claim came not from an offhand comment by an executive at this week's Frankfurt Auto Show, but in a press release announcing that the VW Group had set its "sights on market leadership in electric mobility by 2018."

“We are starting at exactly the right time," said Group CEO Martin Winterkorn before the show.

"We are electrifying all vehicle classes, and therefore have everything we need to make the Volkswagen Group the top automaker in all respects, including electric mobility, by 2018."
​

And what exactly happened to the then CEO of Volkswagon? Well let;s just say that being embarrassed about his prediction of being the world leader in EVs by 2018 is not his biggest concern right now.

German prosecutors have charged VW’s ex-CEO Martin Winterkorn over his role in the Dieselgate scandal. Winterkorn is accused of knowing about the conspiracy as early as 2014 but failing to inform regulators or consumers. Along with four others, he’s also accused of unfair competition, embezzlement, tax evasion, and giving false witness. The New York Times notes that these are the first criminal charges to be filed against an individual in Germany over the scheme.

The former VW CEO is thought to have played a substantial role in the scandal, which saw millions of diesel vehicles sold worldwide that produced illegal levels of pollution despite appearing to pass emissions tests. In the US, the SEC has also charged the ex-CEO for defrauding investors due to the scandal, but he is unlikely to be extradited by German authorities. If convicted, he faces up to 10 years in prison, as well as substantial fines and the return of nearly €11 million ($12 million) in salary and bonuses.​

 

[rumble_lion]

agree with the fast charge infrastructure - but that will take time. that is why hybrids can be a great intermediate strategy. this is like when mankind went from sail to coal power on the ocean - there was a period with both technologies in parallel for fear of running out of coal.

assuming that government regulation does not impede autonomy, a number of these companies will all arrive ready about the same time. that is a fully autonomous system capable of working in all driving conditions/locations and without a continuous connection to any external source. that is full sensing and control on-board. I attend the industry conferences on this topic, and in terms of pure engineering talent/know-how and advanced demos a number have caught Waymo. Ford and BMW may be the closest. the regulators are starting to attend the meetings also, so it is unclear what may happen there.

bottom line Musk did not start Tesla with the idea he needed autonomy to be profitable. he though he could make money straight up on an EV only platform. maybe he could in time.....but he has continued to need funding almost like a VC funded firm. he has 9000 workers in the plant and on a ratio of workers to vehicle production that is the least efficient plant in the world in terms of labor. he also has one of the highest ratios of post production line repairs (pre-shipment). those all can be fixed in time.

it is all timing - the car company may be successful in the long term but will they run out of other people's money before they get there. even if they do, someone will step in and acquire them at a reasonable price.

you are 100% right Tesla should not have acquired Solar City and the tremendous downstream liability they signed up for on that company.

he though he could make money straight up on an EV only platform. maybe he could in time.....but he has continued to need funding almost like a VC funded firm. he has 9000 workers in the plant and on a ratio of workers to vehicle production that is the least efficient plant in the world in terms of labor

Telsa is much more vertically integrated than the other car manufactures. For instance they build all their own seats. The other guys have outsourced just about everything. So you really can't compare head count to determine efficiency.

They aren't trying to replicate what the existing car companies are doing. Which makes it very difficult for the other guys to compete with them.

Here is a another example, the Tesla Superbottle:

 

[bdgan]

The other guys have outsourced just about everything. So you really can't compare head count to determine efficiency.

You can compare operating profit.

 

[Pinkhippo PeanutButter]

he though he could make money straight up on an EV only platform. maybe he could in time.....but he has continued to need funding almost like a VC funded firm. he has 9000 workers in the plant and on a ratio of workers to vehicle production that is the least efficient plant in the world in terms of labor

Telsa is much more vertically integrated than the other car manufactures. For instance they build all their own seats. The other guys have outsourced just about everything. So you really can't compare head count to determine efficiency.

They aren't trying to replicate what the existing car companies are doing. Which makes it very difficult for the other guys to compete with them.

Here is a another example, the Tesla Superbottle:

View embedded media

I thought Tesla's patents were famously open and license free. If so, none of this is actually an advantage. Anyone can do it.

 

[cjrugger]

You can compare operating profit.

Are you short the stock?

 

[bdgan]

Are you short the stock?

No. In fact I'm rooting for Tesla to succeed. They have great cars. The problem is they have a ton of debt and they haven't been able to demonstrate an ability to sell a $30k car profitably. It's a competitive business and other more experienced companies are making headway.

Rumble insisted that Tesla doesn't care about profits. That was when the stock traded near $370 and Musk said he had buyers at $420. Now it's $225.

 

[rumble_lion]

I thought Tesla's patents were famously open and license free. If so, none of this is actually an advantage. Anyone can do it.

If anyone can do it then why haven't they?

Obviously there is more to what Tesla is doing that just what they patent.

There entire business model of vertical integration is completely different then the outsource everything model of say GM, Ford, etc.

 

[rumble_lion]

No. In fact I'm rooting for Tesla to succeed. They have great cars. The problem is they have a ton of debt and they haven't been able to demonstrate an ability to sell a $30k car profitably. It's a competitive business and other more experienced companies are making headway.

Rumble insisted that Tesla doesn't care about profits. That was when the stock traded near $370 and Musk said he had buyers at $420. Now it's $225.

Profits are for companies that have run out of ideas.

Apple makes more money than they know what do with. The money is coming in faster than they can dream of ways of using it.

Tesla is the exact opposite. They have far more things to build and invest in than they have money coming in.

 

[cjrugger]

No. In fact I'm rooting for Tesla to succeed. They have great cars. The problem is they have a ton of debt and they haven't been able to demonstrate an ability to sell a $30k car profitably. It's a competitive business and other more experienced companies are making headway.

Rumble insisted that Tesla doesn't care about profits. That was when the stock traded near $370 and Musk said he had buyers at $420. Now it's $225.

What makes you think other companies are making headway?

 

[rumble_lion]

No. In fact I'm rooting for Tesla to succeed. They have great cars. The problem is they have a ton of debt and they haven't been able to demonstrate an ability to sell a $30k car profitably. It's a competitive business and other more experienced companies are making headway.

Rumble insisted that Tesla doesn't care about profits. That was when the stock traded near $370 and Musk said he had buyers at $420. Now it's $225.

In fact I'm rooting for Tesla to succeed.

lol. What's your ratio of negative to positive Tesla posts? Something like 100/0?

 

[PeetzPoolBoy]

Profits are for companies that have run out of ideas.

I’ll bite.

If “evil profits” aren’t the objective of most/all businesses, what is the underlying, sustaining motive for formulating and operating same?

Mere social good?

 

[bdgan]

Profits are for companies that have run out of ideas.

In that case Tesla must have run out of ideas a year ago.

Elon Musk says job cuts required to fuel profits
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-layoffs-elon-musk-says-job-cuts-required-to-fuel-profits/

 

[BringBackStoneys]

I’ll bite.

If “evil profits” aren’t the objective of most/all businesses, what is the underlying, sustaining motive for formulating and operating same?

Mere social good?

Tesla’s mission statement for the last decade: To accelerated the world’s transition to sustainable energy.

 

[BringBackStoneys]

No. In fact I'm rooting for Tesla to succeed. They have great cars. The problem is they have a ton of debt and they haven't been able to demonstrate an ability to sell a $30k car profitably. It's a competitive business and other more experienced companies are making headway.

Rumble insisted that Tesla doesn't care about profits. That was when the stock traded near $370 and Musk said he had buyers at $420. Now it's $225.

I held off reserving a Model 3 in 2016 because every other automaker was making grand statements, churning out press releases, unveiling concept cars to show that they were right behind Tesla. “Making headway”.

It was BS. 3 years later they have nothing close. It was a ploy to create the impression that there will soon be other options- but in actuality Tesla has widened the gap.

If you dig in on product development timelines, technical specs and cost for EVs from Audi, VW, BMW, Polestar, Ford, Honda - it’s laughable. Kia and Hyundai are the only automakers making compelling products and even they are limiting release because their EVs cannibalize their higher margin ICE offerings.

No one is making headway.

 

[bdgan]

I held off reserving a Model 3 in 2016 because every other automaker was making grand statements, churning out press releases, unveiling concept cars to show that they were right behind Tesla. “Making headway”.

It was BS. 3 years later they have nothing close. It was a ploy to create the impression that there will soon be other options- but in actuality Tesla has widened the gap.

If you dig in on product development timelines, technical specs and cost for EVs from Audi, VW, BMW, Polestar, Ford, Honda - it’s laughable. Kia and Hyundai are the only automakers making compelling products and even they are limiting release because their EVs cannibalize their higher margin ICE offerings.

No one is making headway.

Other companies already manufacture electric vehicles as well as plug in hybrids. I never said that they were better than Tesla but they are just getting started. As an example, the BMW i3 struggles with limited range but the i4 is scheduled to be released in about a year and will reportedly have a range of 373 miles.

The pro Tesla crowd seems to think I am critical of their cars. Nothing could be further from the truth. I'm incredibly impressed and I would even consider purchasing one except that I occassionally drive long distances and I am not willing to plug in for an hour or more to recharge. There's also a problem with service. I know a guy who couldn't get his storage hood open and service wouldn't be available for a month.

The two biggest Tesla features seem to be the battery capability and autopilot. I think others can catch up in those areas. The competitors have proven ability to manufacture, sell, and service cars profitably and they have huge balance sheets. Their cost of capital is substantially less than Tesla who is financing their business with 7% junk bonds.

I

 

[rumble_lion]

In that case Tesla must have run out of ideas a year ago.

Elon Musk says job cuts required to fuel profits
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-layoffs-elon-musk-says-job-cuts-required-to-fuel-profits/

Hmmm, what ideas does Tesla have?

Building out their supercharger network?
Production of the Model Y, Semi truck, Roadster and pickup truck?
Completing the factory in Nevada?
Building the new factory in China?
Expanding production of their battery storage systems?

 

[bdgan]

Hmmm, what ideas does Tesla have?

Building out their supercharger network?
Production of the Model Y, Semi truck, Roadster and pickup truck?
Completing the factory in Nevada?
Building the new factory in China?
Expanding production of their battery storage systems?

Then why does he care about profits? Why would he say "We will never achieve our mission unless we eventually demonstrate that we can be sustainably profitable."?

 

[rumble_lion]

I held off reserving a Model 3 in 2016 because every other automaker was making grand statements, churning out press releases, unveiling concept cars to show that they were right behind Tesla. “Making headway”.

It was BS. 3 years later they have nothing close. It was a ploy to create the impression that there will soon be other options- but in actuality Tesla has widened the gap.

If you dig in on product development timelines, technical specs and cost for EVs from Audi, VW, BMW, Polestar, Ford, Honda - it’s laughable. Kia and Hyundai are the only automakers making compelling products and even they are limiting release because their EVs cannibalize their higher margin ICE offerings.

No one is making headway.

All you nee to know is the fact that some of these companies expense their EV programs under marketing.

 

[rumble_lion]

Then why does he care about profits? Why would he say "We will never achieve our mission unless we eventually demonstrate that we can be sustainably profitable."?

You should probably talk to Elon about that seeing how much that one statement from him really bothers you so much.

 

[bdgan]

You should probably talk to Elon about that seeing how much that one statement from him really bothers you so much.

That's an ignorant response. Musk's statement doesn't bother me at all. It's just reality. You know very well that I said as much long before he made that statement.

A business can survive for some time without profits but it cannot survive very long without cash. Cash comes from debt, equity, and profits. Tesla bonds are rated junk after 15 years of losses which makes debt financing very expensive. Equity financing is dilutive to existing shareholders. That leaves profit. This reality is exactly why Tesla has restructured debt, layed off employees, pushed out vendor payments, delayed work on it's semi truck, etc. It's also why the stock fell from $379 to $225.

Nothing I just said is in any way critical of the product. By all accounts it's a great product.

 

[cjrugger]

Other companies already manufacture electric vehicles as well as plug in hybrids. I never said that they were better than Tesla but they are just getting started. As an example, the BMW i3 struggles with limited range but the i4 is scheduled to be released in about a year and will reportedly have a range of 373 miles.

The pro Tesla crowd seems to think I am critical of their cars. Nothing could be further from the truth. I'm incredibly impressed and I would even consider purchasing one except that I occassionally drive long distances and I am not willing to plug in for an hour or more to recharge. There's also a problem with service. I know a guy who couldn't get his storage hood open and service wouldn't be available for a month.

The two biggest Tesla features seem to be the battery capability and autopilot. I think others can catch up in those areas. The competitors have proven ability to manufacture, sell, and service cars profitably and they have huge balance sheets. Their cost of capital is substantially less than Tesla who is financing their business with 7% junk bonds.

I

The i4 is supposed to come out in 2021 as a 2022 model so you’re at best 18 months away (probably 24-30) and it is supposedly starting at 50k and you’re not getting 350 mile range at the base price

 

[rumble_lion]

That's an ignorant response. Musk's statement doesn't bother me at all. It's just reality. You know very well that I said as much long before he made that statement.

A business can survive for some time without profits but it cannot survive very long without cash. Cash comes from debt, equity, and profits. Tesla bonds are rated junk after 15 years of losses which makes debt financing very expensive. Equity financing is dilutive to existing shareholders. That leaves profit. This reality is exactly why Tesla has restructured debt, layed off employees, pushed out vendor payments, delayed work on it's semi truck, etc. It's also why the stock fell from $379 to $225.

Nothing I just said is in any way critical of the product. By all accounts it's a great product.

A business can survive for some time without profits but it cannot survive very long without cash. Cash comes from debt, equity, and profits

What is Tesla's cash position? Are they running out? Oh wait a minute their cash positions has improved over the last 2 quarters.

Tesla bonds are rated junk after 15 years of losses which makes debt financing very expensive.

You must have missed this, I'm sure it was just an accident.

Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA) recently received a positive report and upgrade from Moody’s Investors Service, which changed its outlook towards the electric car maker from “Negative” to “Stable.” In its report, Moody’s affirmed Tesla’s ratings, including the company’s B3 Corporate Family Rating (CFR) and Caa1 senior unsecured ratings. Tesla’s speculative grade liquidity was also changed from SGL-4 (Weak) to SGL-3 (Adequate).

Impressively, Moody’s noted that Tesla’s liquidity position is now “Adequate.” The company’s $5 billion in cash, for one, is expected to give the electric car maker a generous cushion to address maturing debt obligations through 2021, as well as address potential operational challenges that it could face in the coming year. Moody’s explains its positive outlook on Tesla’s liquidity as follows.

“Tesla has an adequate liquidity profile supported primarily by its $5 billion cash position. After giving consideration for approximately $1 billion in cash needed to fund normal ongoing operations, and $566 million to cover a November 2019 convertible note maturity, Tesla has incremental liquidity of approximately $3.4 billion. This affords the company an important cushion to contend with potential stress arising from softness in US demand, operational challenges accompanying its European and Chinese expansion plans, and the time that will be necessary to implement additional efficiency-enhancing initiatives,” the firm noted.​

Equity financing is dilutive to existing shareholders

Wait, that means they can't raise money in the stock market? Are you nuts? I guess their third largest shareholder didn't say this:

Baillie Gifford, Tesla’s third-largest shareholder, said it is willing to inject more capital into the electric car manufacturer.

The investment manager, which holds a 7.72 percent stake in Tesla, said it backed CEO Elon Musk’s long-term ambitions for the company, calling him an entrepreneur of “vision and ambition, who’s working towards a social good.”

“If he needs more capital we would be willing to back him,” Nick Thomas, partner at Baillie Gifford, told The Times of London Monday. Baillie Gifford confirmed to CNBC that Thomas had made those comments to the newspaper, but declined to comment further.​

 

[BringBackStoneys]

The i4 is supposed to come out in 2021 as a 2022 model so you’re at best 18 months away (probably 24-30) and it is supposedly starting at 50k and you’re not getting 350 mile range at the base price

Exactly- the 2019 Audi E-Tron was supposed to be the example of legacy automakers showing everyone how the big boys can innovate - until it came out at $80k with less range than a 2012 Model S.

The 2022 i4 won’t go into mass production until 2023 and will do so with specs comparable to a 2017 Model 3.

And forgetting about their antiquated software platforms - legacy automakers will continue to lose $7000-9000 per EV car sale (per Moody’s) because they aren’t vertically integrated and are using old, expensive battery tech.

 

[rumble_lion]

The i4 is supposed to come out in 2021 as a 2022 model so you’re at best 18 months away (probably 24-30) and it is supposedly starting at 50k and you’re not getting 350 mile range at the base price

Does that mean the i3 was a failure?

I mean could they have possibly designed an uglier ev than the i3? There was no they wanted a lot of these exposed to the public.

 

[rumble_lion]

That's an ignorant response. Musk's statement doesn't bother me at all. It's just reality. You know very well that I said as much long before he made that statement.

A business can survive for some time without profits but it cannot survive very long without cash. Cash comes from debt, equity, and profits. Tesla bonds are rated junk after 15 years of losses which makes debt financing very expensive. Equity financing is dilutive to existing shareholders. That leaves profit. This reality is exactly why Tesla has restructured debt, layed off employees, pushed out vendor payments, delayed work on it's semi truck, etc. It's also why the stock fell from $379 to $225.

Nothing I just said is in any way critical of the product. By all accounts it's a great product.

You should really invest in Ford or GM. They have a vision for the future the more closely aligns with yours. Plus - Profits! Yay!

 

[rumble_lion]

Exactly- the 2019 Audi E-Tron was supposed to be the example of legacy automakers showing everyone how the big boys can innovate - until it came out at $80k with less range than a 2012 Model S.

The 2022 i4 won’t go into mass production until 2023 and will do so with specs comparable to a 2017 Model 3.

And forgetting about their antiquated software platforms - legacy automakers will continue to lose $7000-9000 per EV car sale (per Moody’s) because they aren’t vertically integrated and are using old, expensive battery tech.

Exactly- the 2019 Audi E-Tron was supposed to be the example of legacy automakers showing everyone how the big boys can innovate - until it came out at $80k with less range than a 2012 Model S.

Here is the problems the legacy auto manufacturers have as far as I see it.

Tesla vehicles are just flat out better then the gas powered vehicles they compete against. So if a legacy auto manufacturer wants to "kill" Telsa they have to build an EV that will also "kill' their own gasoline powered vehicles. They need a slow, slow transition to evs in order to recover all the sunk investments they have made that aren't worth anything in the ev world. Tesla doesn't have to manage any of the that, they can just concentrate 100% on building the best evs.

 

[BringBackStoneys]

Exactly- the 2019 Audi E-Tron was supposed to be the example of legacy automakers showing everyone how the big boys can innovate - until it came out at $80k with less range than a 2012 Model S.

Here is the problems the legacy auto manufacturers have as far as I see it.

Tesla vehicles are just flat out better then the gas powered vehicles they compete against. So if a legacy auto manufacturer wants to "kill" Telsa they have to build an EV that will also "kill' their own gasoline powered vehicles. They need a slow, slow transition to evs in order to recover all the sunk investments they have made that aren't worth anything in the ev world. Tesla doesn't have to manage any of the that, they can just concentrate 100% on building the best evs.

Yep. At the same time they need to
-build a global supercharging network
-secure battery raw materials supply
-develop autonomous driving tech

all the while getting walloped by EU efficiency fines (or send hundreds of millions of dollars in cash to Tesla to pool emissions to avoid fines) which are separate from the diesel emissions fraud fines...

AND do all of this in the face of declining global auto sales because of e-mobility/ride-sharing.

It’s going to be an interesting decade...

 

[rumble_lion]

Yep. At the same time they need to
-build a global supercharging network
-secure battery raw materials supply
-develop autonomous driving tech

all the while getting walloped by EU efficiency fines (or send hundreds of millions of dollars in cash to Tesla to pool emissions to avoid fines) which are separate from the diesel emissions fraud fines...

AND do all of this in the face of declining global auto sales because of e-mobility/ride-sharing.

It’s going to be an interesting decade...

Doesn't look like Fiat/Chrylser has invested very much in the future and now they will pay Tesla a ton of money to avoid fines in the EU. For Tesla the 2 billion in revenue from FCA costs them nothing.

In addition to $2 billion it raised in stocks and convertible bonds last week, the company signed a deal with Fiat Chrysler last month to share its emissions credits in Europe with the Italian-American automaker, which is lagging in electric cars.

What wasn't apparent at the time is that the Fiat Chrysler deal was also worth about $2 billion to the Silicon Valley startup automaker, according to a report last weekend in the Financial Times.​

 

[bdgan]

A business can survive for some time without profits but it cannot survive very long without cash. Cash comes from debt, equity, and profits

What is Tesla's cash position? Are they running out? Oh wait a minute their cash positions has improved over the last 2 quarters.

Tesla bonds are rated junk after 15 years of losses which makes debt financing very expensive.

You must have missed this, I'm sure it was just an accident.

Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA) recently received a positive report and upgrade from Moody’s Investors Service, which changed its outlook towards the electric car maker from “Negative” to “Stable.” In its report, Moody’s affirmed Tesla’s ratings, including the company’s B3 Corporate Family Rating (CFR) and Caa1 senior unsecured ratings. Tesla’s speculative grade liquidity was also changed from SGL-4 (Weak) to SGL-3 (Adequate).

Impressively, Moody’s noted that Tesla’s liquidity position is now “Adequate.” The company’s $5 billion in cash, for one, is expected to give the electric car maker a generous cushion to address maturing debt obligations through 2021, as well as address potential operational challenges that it could face in the coming year. Moody’s explains its positive outlook on Tesla’s liquidity as follows.

“Tesla has an adequate liquidity profile supported primarily by its $5 billion cash position. After giving consideration for approximately $1 billion in cash needed to fund normal ongoing operations, and $566 million to cover a November 2019 convertible note maturity, Tesla has incremental liquidity of approximately $3.4 billion. This affords the company an important cushion to contend with potential stress arising from softness in US demand, operational challenges accompanying its European and Chinese expansion plans, and the time that will be necessary to implement additional efficiency-enhancing initiatives,” the firm noted.​

Equity financing is dilutive to existing shareholders

Wait, that means they can't raise money in the stock market? Are you nuts? I guess their third largest shareholder didn't say this:

Baillie Gifford, Tesla’s third-largest shareholder, said it is willing to inject more capital into the electric car manufacturer.

The investment manager, which holds a 7.72 percent stake in Tesla, said it backed CEO Elon Musk’s long-term ambitions for the company, calling him an entrepreneur of “vision and ambition, who’s working towards a social good.”

“If he needs more capital we would be willing to back him,” Nick Thomas, partner at Baillie Gifford, told The Times of London Monday. Baillie Gifford confirmed to CNBC that Thomas had made those comments to the newspaper, but declined to comment further.​

You are completely clueless.

Tesla is in better financial shape because of the reasons I mentioned (pushed out supplier payments, renegotiated debt, layoffs, pushing out programs, etc.). They aren't in better shape because they started making money.

Tesla does not have $5 million in cash. They have $5.7 million in current assets (incl inventory & accounts receivable). They also have short term liabilities (accounts payable, current portion of long term debt). The changes they made certainly bought them some more time (they now have positive working capital). You know, the changes you didn't think were necessary and wouldn't impact the stock price.

A Caa-1 bond rating is several levels below investment grade (BB or better). Tesla must still pay 2.5x more to borrow money than their competitors. Of course they can raise capital in the equity market. I never said otherwise so why do you say such things? I said that new equity would be dilutive and that's true. I've also said that Tesla would survive. It's just uncertain in what form.

P.S. Nobody is paying $420 per share at this point.

P.S.S. You can like their cars and be optimistic about their future but ignoring the hurdles just makes you naive.

 

[cjrugger]

You are completely clueless.

Tesla is in better financial shape because of the reasons I mentioned (pushed out supplier payments, renegotiated debt, layoffs, pushing out programs, etc.). They aren't in better shape because they started making money.

Tesla does not have $5 million in cash. They have $5.7 million in current assets (incl inventory & accounts receivable). They also have short term liabilities (accounts payable, current portion of long term debt). The changes they made certainly bought them some more time (they now have positive working capital). You know, the changes you didn't think were necessary and wouldn't impact the stock price.

A Caa-1 bond rating is several levels below investment grade (BB or better). Tesla must still pay 2.5x more to borrow money than their competitors. Of course they can raise capital in the equity market. I never said otherwise so why do you say such things? I said that new equity would be dilutive and that's true. I've also said that Tesla would survive. It's just uncertain in what form.

P.S. Nobody is paying $420 per share at this point.

P.S.S. You can like their cars and be optimistic about their future but ignoring the hurdles just makes you naive.

A swing, and a miss

‘The company’s cash reserves, a closely watched figure that has been prone to run low, ended the quarter at $5 billion‘

https://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-earnings-miss-expectations-11564002511

 

[bdgan]

A swing, and a miss

‘The company’s cash reserves, a closely watched figure that has been prone to run low, ended the quarter at $5 billion‘

https://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-earnings-miss-expectations-11564002511

Can't read your article but I stand corrected. My point remains unchanged.

$4,954 Cash & S-T investments

$3,133 Accounts Payable
$1,460 Current portion of S-T debt
$2,330 Other current liabilities

$9,950 Long Term Debt

Better than they were but still not a lot to work with.
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/TSLA/balance-sheet?p=TSLA&.tsrc=fin-srch

 

[rumble_lion]

Can't read your article but I stand corrected. My point remains unchanged.

$4,954 Cash & S-T investments

$3,133 Accounts Payable
$1,460 Current portion of S-T debt
$2,330 Other current liabilities

$9,950 Long Term Debt

Better than they were but still not a lot to work with.
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/TSLA/balance-sheet?p=TSLA&.tsrc=fin-srch

So when are you predicting they will run out of cash?

 

[cjrugger]

Can't read your article but I stand corrected. My point remains unchanged.

$4,954 Cash & S-T investments

$3,133 Accounts Payable
$1,460 Current portion of S-T debt
$2,330 Other current liabilities

$9,950 Long Term Debt

Better than they were but still not a lot to work with.
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/TSLA/balance-sheet?p=TSLA&.tsrc=fin-srch

You said they have less than 5M cash on hand. I showed you they had 5B in cash on hand, and you say ‘My point remains unchanged’. I give up. Take care

 

[rumble_lion]

You said they have less than 5M cash on hand. I showed you they had 5B in cash on hand, and you say ‘My point remains unchanged’. I give up. Take care

lol.

 

[bdgan]

So when are you predicting they will run out of cash?

1 year but it won't come to that. More dilutive equity.

 

[rumble_lion]

1 year but it won't come to that. More dilutive equity.

So you think they will burn through 5 billion dollars of cash over the next 12 months? I'm going to strongly disagree with you.

Of course even if they did that we know they can raise just about any amount of additional cash they would need.