You're clearly to dense and blinded by hate to understand my point... Oh well, I tried. Most of your comrades will get it.
The Iowa board is comical.....
- Thread starter AngryOtter42
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You're clearly to dense and blinded by hate to understand my point... Oh well, I tried. Most of your comrades will get it.
We'll see. I could be wrong, but if he ends up somewhere other than IC I will not be surprised.
Nah, I'm just a guy that tries to pass on info when I get it. Sometimes it's right, sometimes it's wrong... I was fairly confident about Berge and very confident about Warner.
Should I be suprised I'm being attacked by this boards most miserable, self loathing posters??
Until they find out Penn Staters hate espn.....then they will love espn again.
Honestly, I'm new to wrestling and float on this and the Iowa boards to try and learn something. I understand Iowa has a lot of tradition and I totally get fan frustration when things don't go your way.
That said, the Iowa board just always seems so bitter about anything regarding Penn St. I get the fan frustration part but at times they remind me of Pitt fans.
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Considering he spent this weekend with Lee, Warner, Metcalf, McDonough, and Zadick, sat in the Iowa section with Wilckes family, and has been at every post session H.A.W.K. Club social, and comes in on his own dime to visit and work out regularly I'd be flat out shocked.
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Focus on our success...other people's misery isn't nearly as fun.
I get it. Thanks for your perspective!
Changing the subject. I know you probably will not agree, but with the exception of Gilman's match I thought the Hawks have wrestled well this weekend.
Tomorrow night's 133 should be entertaining. Clark will have to be sharp to get it done. Gross has looked great, but no matter Clark will wrestle a tough match. Even with 1 arm he is tougher than nails.
I agree... Aside from Gilman, most of our guys just got beat by better wrestlers... Overall I'm happy with the teams effort this week. Always a handful of matches you'd like to have back though... Kemerer and Meyer in the quarters hurt particularly bad.
And good idea on the change of subject... I wouldn't dig that hole any deeper if I were you.
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Now let me ask you.
If you thought the subject change was a good idea, why the need to conclude your post by bringing us back to it?
Just pointing it out again that it was a good idea on your part since you're dead wrong and grasping at straws with your Teasdale talk... Me being right has nothing to do with you being wrong. My apologies if you took them as one in the same.
Tom, I really appreciate your voice of reason. Some day I will make it back out to Happy Valley and buy you a drink.
In fairness, and I like him personally, Tom Brands' seat must be getting awfully toasty. They're possibly going to go two years now without a team trophy, and this program is losing (as of now) 62.8% of their points, and three-fifths of their All-Americans, and this from a coach who has, traditionally, struggled at times to get production out of his upperclassmen at NCAA's. Just if I'm Gary Barta, I almost have to feel like I have two options: Give Brands a multi-year extension, with a promise not to evaluate his performance over that time period, knowing that it likely won't be up to the standards Iowa has come to expect, or start looking in a different direction.
Q1: If they fire Brands, can they keep the blue-chip kids? Or, would the kids follow Brands to somewhere else, a la Metcalf, Borschel, et al.?
Q2: If they can keep the blue-chip kids, would a new guy really develop them better than Brands would? Keep in mind that, with mostly non-blue-chip kids, Brands has done better than one would expect.
Q3: Would a new guy be as good at recruiting as Brands seems to have become?
If I answer the three questions for myself, I'd give Brands four more years to re-prove himself, especially to prove whether he can continue to develop and recruit blue chippers.
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I have watched this entire tournament with a very close friend who is fighting cancer (huge Iowa fan) and my dad (huge Iowa fan) and they are not in melt down. We have talked very openly about many teams and situations. I will share some takes from a couple of lifers.
1. They both love Brands brothers and enjoy Tom's interviews and honestly.
2. They both believe whatever Iowa is doing from a training perspective is not working very well. Guys don't improve throughout the year like the PSU guys do.
3. They will both be happy when ISU wrestling isn't only mentioned as a punchline to a joke.
4. They both have some excitement about the recent recruits, but doubt they will catch PSU because of take #2.
5. They both were pretty sick when Gilman lost and crazy with excitement when Clark won. Thought Gilman wrestled slow and lacked his normal fire the entire match. My dad thought he looked nervous early.
6. They both thought Brooks wasn't pinned.
7. They are neither one very bitter or foaming at the mouth over any wrestling results.
8. Neither of them posts on HR- in fact my dad wouldn't know what that even means.
9. They both think Mizzu is a program that really does a great job being competitive with way less tradition and national recruiting power. We talked a lot about the job Brian Smith is doing down there.
10. I feel so blessed to have both of these guys in my life, and am having one hard time dealing with the fact that both will be exiting in the near future. I hate cancer. I wish Zain could run a bow and arrow on that disease and break it in half.
1. They both love Brands brothers and enjoy Tom's interviews and honestly.
2. They both believe whatever Iowa is doing from a training perspective is not working very well. Guys don't improve throughout the year like the PSU guys do.
3. They will both be happy when ISU wrestling isn't only mentioned as a punchline to a joke.
4. They both have some excitement about the recent recruits, but doubt they will catch PSU because of take #2.
5. They both were pretty sick when Gilman lost and crazy with excitement when Clark won. Thought Gilman wrestled slow and lacked his normal fire the entire match. My dad thought he looked nervous early.
6. They both thought Brooks wasn't pinned.
7. They are neither one very bitter or foaming at the mouth over any wrestling results.
8. Neither of them posts on HR- in fact my dad wouldn't know what that even means.
9. They both think Mizzu is a program that really does a great job being competitive with way less tradition and national recruiting power. We talked a lot about the job Brian Smith is doing down there.
10. I feel so blessed to have both of these guys in my life, and am having one hard time dealing with the fact that both will be exiting in the near future. I hate cancer. I wish Zain could run a bow and arrow on that disease and break it in half.
After the Civil War, a group of "historians" from the former Confederate states sat down and began to develop an alternative facts history of the Civil War which has been labeled "The Myth of the Lost Cause".
The treatment of Ton Brands as a wrestling coach is a similar phenomenon. The guy leaves VT for Iowa. Knowing he is leaving, he puts more effort into getting wrestlers out of VT than developing the VT team and goes 1-15 in duals his second, and last, season at VT. Just let that record roll around in your head a little while. 1-15.
Do you think he gave VT his best efforts his second year or did he basically steal VT's money - along with its best wrestlers? 1-15. 1-15.
Along with stealing VT-s money and wrestlers, he concocts a ludicrous story, in direct contradiction to the terms of his employment contract, in an attempt to make the VT administration look like the "bad guys". But what would you expect from someone who basically made zero effort to make VT successful in his second season? But to the NCAA's credit, they refuse to buy into the story. 1-15.
After leaving the VT program for dead, Brands somehow manages to get labeled as a great guy. Is that what a great guy does? Takes a salary while worrying more about his own personal future at another school and running his employer's program into the ground? 1-15.
Fast forward to Iowa. Using those VT wrestlers along with a pretty darned good Iowa roster, Brands win 3 consecutive NCAA championships. In the last of those 3 (2010), Brands has the #1 recruiting class and follows that up with another #1 class in 2012 (the current graduating class of Gilman, Clark, et. al).
In 7 years, with 2 #1 recruiting classes added to a threepeat championship team, Brands has won a share of one B1G championship and zero NCAA team championships. That #1 class may produce ONE individual champion, if Clark can beat Gross today. But that will be it. One individual champion and one individual championship. Yet Brands remains the teflon man.
It's time to stop buying into the spin. Face the reality, no matter how unpleasant.
I love me some TnT, but this fanbase is setting themselves up for an epic fail the remainder of this decade.
They are sinking everything they have into Spencer, GT, Warner, Murin, etc. I cant say I dont blame them, its all they got at the moment. Staring at 2 years in a row failing to not make the team podium and 7 years in a row without NC. KemDog has certainly given them hope, but so did the stache and their former #1 recruiting class. Recent history is that seniors in Iowa are not getting better. They are either hurt or show declining ability against the field.
Spencer has had/will have major knee and shoulder surgery the last 18 months. To think he wont have more injuries is wishful thinking (I feel like LP saying this) over the next 5 years.
Spencer and GT are just two weights, but what about the other 8? not exactly high propensity for Iowa to put these other weights into the finals outside of 125/133.
While these latest recruits are no doubt studs, our incoming recruits, tO$U, Ok state, etc are getting studs too. Its not like TnT are doing something so much better than the field to close the gap.
Last year in the finals Iowa scored 0 takedowns. This year in the semis, they score 2, both by Clark on counters to the other guys shots.
TnT will be fine, but the sanity of their fan base not so much.
They are sinking everything they have into Spencer, GT, Warner, Murin, etc. I cant say I dont blame them, its all they got at the moment. Staring at 2 years in a row failing to not make the team podium and 7 years in a row without NC. KemDog has certainly given them hope, but so did the stache and their former #1 recruiting class. Recent history is that seniors in Iowa are not getting better. They are either hurt or show declining ability against the field.
Spencer has had/will have major knee and shoulder surgery the last 18 months. To think he wont have more injuries is wishful thinking (I feel like LP saying this) over the next 5 years.
Spencer and GT are just two weights, but what about the other 8? not exactly high propensity for Iowa to put these other weights into the finals outside of 125/133.
While these latest recruits are no doubt studs, our incoming recruits, tO$U, Ok state, etc are getting studs too. Its not like TnT are doing something so much better than the field to close the gap.
Last year in the finals Iowa scored 0 takedowns. This year in the semis, they score 2, both by Clark on counters to the other guys shots.
TnT will be fine, but the sanity of their fan base not so much.
Murin = Maruca. He's on a much lower tier than the guys we are getting. Watch this short freestyle match with Fix. http://www.flowrestling.org/video/7...lahoma-vs-max-murin-pennsylvania#.WM0nfzw8KEc
Not all Pa State champs are super studs. That's the reason Cael also goes hunting in Arizona and Coos Bay
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+1
FCUK cancer.
Your post is interesting though. There is so much talk about how we improve through a season and others don't. The formula is pretty simple. I watch coaches hammer kids for tactical mistakes all the time. Hammer them. Cael doesn't want strategic mistakes but encourages tactical ones. Try things in matches instead of just the practice room. If they don't work and you win. So what? If it doesn't work and you lose.....so what? It doesn't matter. What matters is letting it fly. Wrestler harder, faster, experiment and.....relax! It's all good.
Contrast with what you see from many coaches all the time. And you get close wrestling and tense brains. You can still win this way, but they break like Collica
Cael is a great recruiter, no question. But he looks for kids who want to commit to "playing". Kids who fly. He then makes them better by openly letting them be free to be high quality young adults who want to actually just have fun.
You're right. This won't last forever for PSU. At some point the reign will end. It ended for Okie State, it ended for Iowa (after Gable) and there will come a time when it ends for PSU. That may not be soon but it's inevitable.
Until that happens I'm going to enjoy every single minute of it, though.
Of course it would be a mess because that would be impossible.
Love this board's confidence right now and yeah I get that we're all celebrating and busting on Iowa, but let's be careful too because nothing is impossible. As we saw this year injury knocked us out at 2 weight classes. That's 2 years in a row now we've had guys injured. We need to stay healthy!! And I'm really hoping and wanting to see us send all 10 guys to the tournament next year healthy and injury free.
Wow, what's that last comment based on? Just a feeling you have or something more?
Another reality, at this point, the Virginia Tech program that Brands left for dead is as good as Iowa's program and that has been done without having the Iowa brand to recruit with. Starting tomorrow, the best wrestling coach in Iowa will be the guy in Ames.
Cael does a great job of identifying the recruits that still have room to grow and avoids kids with off the mat issues like the plague. Result is the elite guys Cael lands almost always continue to develop and have very good college careers. That is incredible when you consider that about half of the top 10 to 15 recruits each year are basically never heard from again.
The other thing, Cael has mastered how to get the team to peak for NCAA's. They might underachieve a little at B1G's every few years based upon seed, they never underachieve at NCAA's which is incredible considering the high number of high seeds.
I dare say that the PSU wrestling program is the model for how to run any sports team. The combination of success and development with the level of fun is incredible.
Thanks for the words, Tom. Win with grace, and a little class. Celebrate our success.
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The last line, I assume?
There is a younger guy I have known since he was probably around 10. He just seems to know everybody in and around wrestling in Centre County and districts 6 and 9.
There have been times he has told me stuff that caused me to think he was full of baloney that eventually prove pretty accurate.
He was telling me for the past week and a half Nick would not wrestle because it was injured more than anybody knows, but Nick desperately wanted to give it a shot. Somebody on here posted they ran into Nick at the team hotel and the story he relayed was the same one I have heard for over a week.
This isn't the first time this has happened. He happens to be the same person who insists GT will not find his way to IC. I hedged my bet by putting it "may very well not".
I've followed PSU wrestling since the early Sunderland years, and it was not fun getting blasted by Iowa every year. I hated Brands and felt he was smug. They say the same thing about Cael. Cael is the man and it feels great to win, but have some freaking humility guys. They are openly jealous and are the bluest blue blood of folkstyle wrestling. They will be back and most Iowa fans openly admit penn state is loaded with talent and showcase a very entertaining and exciting form of wrestling. I am so sick of PSU trolls on every opposing teams fan board acting smug when we win.
Interestingly, I never see PSU trolls in basketball forums.
To any Iowa fans on the board: ignore some of our nouveau riche members who can't win with humility.
Interestingly, I never see PSU trolls in basketball forums.
To any Iowa fans on the board: ignore some of our nouveau riche members who can't win with humility.
I have wondered the same thing about Teasdale. I can't fathom why he would travel so far to wrestle on a worse team. I understand his friendship with Spencer Lee, but following a friend over going where you can have more opportunity to prosper and be close to home? I'm guessing Iowa will offer him quite a bit more money, but it just seems like a bad fit in every way to me. Teasdale is a very creative wrestler who would absolutely thrive in the PSU system, but may struggle wrestling the conservative style in Iowa City. It feels a little bit like when Troy Aikman thought Oklahoma was a smart move when they ran an option and he was an NFL caliber pocket passer. Style doesn't fit. JMO
Actually, I don't think Brooks was flat for a full one-count - but that doesn't mean he wouldn't have been pinned anyway (Brooks went flat to his back to gather himself for another attempt to turn himself - when he went flat the official called it, it was very quick). In any event, Bo still had Brooks on his back and he was tiring as he was fighting to turn himself unsuccessfully (i.e., Brooks put himself to his back when the ref called the pin in an attempt to gather himself), so I don't think the "quick whistle" on the pin really mattered at the end of the day.
The pinning combination Zain used on Sorenson is a "modified" Freestyle move that is illegal in Folk (i.e., that is why it is "modified" - IOW, a Folk version of the move). Whether the combination is allowed to continue in Folk comes down to the angle of the foot & lower leg Zain was pulling on relative to the legs "natural alignment" - the leg and foot have to stay "in-line" - i.e., 180 degrees - to the upper-leg and knee joint. If the leg goes to the outside, wrestling can be stopped on a PD call (move is never stopped in Free unless bottom wrestler forfeits/submits). Whether action should have been stopped for PD in Zain's match is a judgement call - in the official's judgement it was okay and that's all that counts.
Happen to agree with Iowa fans, VinJo was not maintaining 50% of the neutral attacks (which is the standard) and probably deserved the Stall call he received. Don't know what they're bitching about though, he was dinged for not shooting enough and failing to match his opponent's attacks (again, this is the standard) - if they're trying to say he should have been dinged a 2nd time, that's bull$hit as VinJo carried plenty of the action on their feet in the 3rd when the match was decided.
You are correct ....
LIONS don't concern themselves with the opinions of sheep ..... or Hawkeyes for that matter
He bleeds blue and white as much as the rest of us so where is an easy guess.
I am just sitting here thinking we will see.
I agree with you, largely. But I have 2 things to say. One. Those #1 class rankings are very wrong. The rankings grossly overvalue quantity over quality. Two. Who has been good at consistently developing talent and peaking talent, other than Cael at PSU? Compared to Cael's teams, Iowa frequently underperforms at the NCAAs. So do the Cowboys, Gophers and Buckeyes. Cael and Gable have set an impossible standard for consistency and non-choking.
I agree with whoever mentioned Dresser that, if Brands were to be fired, Dresser deserves a strong look. I posted about the Dresser-to-Iowa scenario in the Dresser thread recently. I think the chance of Dresser to Iowa, one day, is in the double-digit percentages.
One thought/question I have about choosing a coach to compete with Cael is whether it'd be better, at this time, to choose a Cael clone whose brand (no pun) is "Fun!" or to choose a Brands-lite coach whose brand is hard-nosed aggression (but who can prevent (i.e., not instigate) choking).
I don't think a Cael clone would have attracted Lee over Cael. I think, at this time, there are still enough old-school hard-nosed high-school guys who like Brands' intensity over fun.
Speaking of choking, I think Brands' style of self-imposed pressure and aggression helps an underdog who needs to get fired up to win a little, but hurts the blue chipper who needs to stay cool to win a lot. (We've all heard of basketball coaches who can revive a program with rah rah, but who can't maintain it because the players get exhausted and tune out. Three-year wonders.) ... Maybe I'm talking myself into firing Brands.
I don't think a Cael clone would have attracted Lee over Cael. I think, at this time, there are still enough old-school hard-nosed high-school guys who like Brands' intensity over fun.
Speaking of choking, I think Brands' style of self-imposed pressure and aggression helps an underdog who needs to get fired up to win a little, but hurts the blue chipper who needs to stay cool to win a lot. (We've all heard of basketball coaches who can revive a program with rah rah, but who can't maintain it because the players get exhausted and tune out. Three-year wonders.) ... Maybe I'm talking myself into firing Brands.
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I'm not going to gloat at other teams when PSU wins another championship, but I will repeat this old favorite line from HR:
"What will Carl & PSU do once Taylor & Ruth graduate ?"
"What will Carl & PSU do once Taylor & Ruth graduate ?"
Truth....Tom Brands makes the MAJORITY of wrestlers who go to Iowa end up hating the sport.....Of course he would never admit that but just ask guys who have wrestled for him...That is a fact. Thank God we have Cael Sanderson who is just an incredible human being on and off the mat !!!!I'm not going to gloat at other teams when PSU wins another championship, but I will repeat this old favorite line from HR:
"What will Carl & PSU do once Taylor & Ruth graduate ?"
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