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This looks very much like a "Dark Years" PSU Team

ButlerEagle

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2020
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236
1
-no downfield passing game
-poor offensive line play
-erratic qb play
-no home run rushing attack
-poor special teams
- good defense that plays terrible in the clutch
-no complimentary football
-lose close games
-turnovers
 
-no downfield passing game
-poor offensive line play
-erratic qb play
-no home run rushing attack
-poor special teams
- good defense that plays terrible in the clutch
-no complimentary football
-lose close games
-turnovers
Joebot409

Your schtick is growing tiresome.

It’s Mod time for you and your other monikers.
 
Spread your wings and fly away back to Butler. You're gone regardless. I'm enjoying the ignore feature, I'd highly recommend it
I enjoy it also. Like hundreds of others here I have 82-86 on ignore and now welcome to the club. Point out one thing wrong about my points before you go though.
 
-no downfield passing game
-poor offensive line play
-erratic qb play
-no home run rushing attack
-poor special teams
- good defense that plays terrible in the clutch
-no complimentary football
-lose close games
-turnovers

Oh, for the love of God...
Go ahead...
Just pull the trigger and free us all from your hair trigger madness.
 
-no downfield passing game
-poor offensive line play
-erratic qb play
-no home run rushing attack
-poor special teams
- good defense that plays terrible in the clutch
-no complimentary football
-lose close games
-turnovers

I think about 50% of your post COULD be a 1-game over-reaction. And maybe about 50% of your list could be season-long legit concerns:

1-Game over-reactions:
> "erratic QB Play" - Granted Clifford was not too good in the 1st Half, but he had a pretty decent 2nd Half. Over his 14 career starts, I think it's now safe to say that Clifford is not going to be "Trace McSorley" but he's decent.
> "poor special teams" - Yes. They were bad on Saturday. But Pinegar has been pretty good for his career. And last year under Lorig the ST were pretty good. Chalk it up to a bad day.
> "no complimentary football" - Actually since he arrived at PSU, Franklin's teams have played pretty good complimentary football. Do not let one bad Saturday over-whelm 6 years.
> "lose close games" - Would you rather see our loses be blowouts??? Yes, over the years our loses have been close games. But that means we are in games. Under Franklin we've suffered only a few ugly beat downs. And BTW .... we've won way more close games the last 6 years than we lost.
> "turnovers" - Again, do not let 1 off Saturday over-whelm 6 years of data. Under Franklin we have usually won turnover margin and taken care of the football.

Things that could be longer term concerns:
> "no downfield passing game" - I mentioned this last week that our WR depth Chart is a scary concern and got blasted by the blind loyalists. I'll double-down on my concern. That was Indiana on Saturday. Not Ohio State, or Michigan. I just do not see our WRs winning battles consistently vs. top end B1G DBs.
> "poor offensive line play" - Has this not been an issue since like 1994 ; ). Seriously, how many years in a row now must we have either a weak OL, or an under-achieving OL. When was the last time we had a PSU team where we could say "The OL is a strength".????
> "no home run rushing game" - His name was Journey Brown. Yes, it will be a problem all year. IF Cain comes back, he is a good RB, but he is not a HR threat. You can not fault the coaches here. From Barkley to Sanders to Brown... the staff has lined us up a HR threat at RB. You can not fault them for a medical condition. But. It is what it is, and without Brown, I do not see any RB giving us that "easy" 60 yard touchdown from what should have been a 4-yard gain.
> "good defense that plays terrible in the clutch" - This one is becoming mind-boggling. The opponents last drive before a Half. The last 5 minutes of a game with a lead. Heck, even the immediate drive after we score, seems like the defense lets down and allows the other team to answer. Pry has really got to go back and re-evaluate his defensive philosophy late in halfs, and nursing leads.
 
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This could be the dumbest post I've ever read on this board. This team is actually LOADED with talented players. Take a step back from the ledge, they will probably get their doors blown off this weekend for sure...somewhere in the range of 40-17 or worse. Yet, this team is NOTHING like those teams. Those teams had so little talent it was pathetic and the coaching was even worse.
 
I agree with most that saying this is a "dark years" team is a bit of an over reaction at this point.

It's often been shared that the number of busts and flame outs of recruits from back then was one of bigger contributors to the "dark years" and the current roster does feel kind of similar in terms of depth issues caused by a combination of injuries, transfers and recruiting busts.

The RB group being potentially down to 3rd string after losing 3 players between injuries and transfers, the WR position losing multiple high ranking (though admittedly not performing) players to transfers and the NFL in the last few years, the QB is only trusting of his feet at this point and is not seeing the field, our 5 star LB Brandon Smith was without a tackle against IU and Micah bolted for the NFL a year early due to covid, Lamont Wade has never truly lived up to his 5 star ranking - I could go on but you get the picture. One or two of these happening I can get on the coaches for not scheming around, but when it's hitting almost every skill position on offense I'm not sure what more the coaches can do.

There are good young players at multiple positions - but still very raw and the lack of spring/fall practice is showing for this squad.
 
Wow 488 yards of offense on the road where we struggle...with 4 turnovers and 3 missed FG's. The offense certainly was bad, but it wasn't due to bad OL play or not being able to move the ball. It was due to bad turnovers in bad spots. I don't think your post could be any more inaccurate if you tried. You either missed the dark years are or a DQ troll.
 
I think about 50% of your post COULD be a 1-game over-reaction. And maybe about 50% of your list could be season-long legit concerns:

1-Game over-reactions:
> "erratic QB Play" - Granted Clifford was not too good in the 1st Half, but he had a pretty decent 2nd Half. Over his 14 career starts, I think it's not safe to say that Clifford is not going to be "Trace McSorley" but he's decent.
> "poor special teams" - Yes. They were bad on Saturday. But Pinegar has been pretty good for his career. And last year under Lorig the ST were pretty good. Chalk it up to a bad day.
> "no complimentary football" - Actually since he arrived at PSU, Franklin's teams have played pretty good complimentary football. Do not let one bad Saturday over-whelm 6 years.
> "lose close games" - Would you rather see our loses be blowouts??? Yes, over the years our loses have been close games. But that means we are in games. Under Franklin we've suffered only a few ugly beat downs. And BTW .... we've won way more close games the last 6 years than we lost.
> "turnovers" - Again, do not let 1 off Saturday over-whelm 6 years of data. Under Franklin we have usually won turnover margin and taken care of the football.

Things that could be longer term concerns:
> "no downfield passing game" - I mentioned this last week that our WR depth Chart is a scary concern and got blasted by the blind loyalists. I'll double-down on my concern. That was Indiana on Saturday. Not Ohio State, or Michigan. I just do not see our WRs winning battles consistently vs. top end B1G DBs.
> "poor offensive line play" - Has this not been an issue since like 1994 ; ). Seriously, how many years in a row now must we have either a weak OL, or an under-achieving OL. When was the last time we had a PSU team where we could say "The OL is a strength".????
> "no home run rushing game" - His name was Journey Brown. Yes, it will be a problem all year. IF Cain comes back, he is a good RB, but he is not a HR threat. You can not fault the coaches here. From Barkley to Sanders to Brown... the staff has lined us up a HR threat at RB. You can not fault them for a medical condition. But. It is what it is, and without Brown, I do not see any RB giving us that "easy" 60 yard touchdown from what should have been a 4-yard gain.
> "good defense that plays terrible in the clutch" - This one is becoming mind-boggling. The opponents last drive before a Half. The last 5 minutes of a game with a lead. Heck, even the immediate drive after we score, seems like the defense lets down and allows the other team to answer. Pry has really got to go back and re-evaluate his defensive philosophy late in halfs, and nursing leads.
I agree with some of this, however 6 years of data doesn’t really mean anything in regards to this team. Over the prior 6 years, we had players such as Godwin, Trace, saquon, Micah.. maybe by the end of some of our current players careers we can add them to that list of elite players, however nothing we saw this weekend makes me think that’ll happen this year
 
One other similarity that I will point out is that in 2000 in our typical recruiting grounds (if you can call what was done back then recruiting) there had been recent coaching changes at the following schools:

Rutgers: Greg Schiano
WVU: Rich Rodriguez
OSU: Jim Tressell
Virginia: Al Groh
Maryland: Ralph Friedgen

Virginia Tech had just come off an 11-0 season and a loss in the Sugar Bowl BCS Championship. The combination of fresh coaching and a strong VT made it much more challenging to pull talent since the attitude at the time was it should be an honor to play for Penn State - as opposed Paterno's line in the commercial several years later "Come to Penn State!!!"

Fast forward to today and we've got these recent coaching changes
Rutgers: Schiano
OSU: Ryan Day
Maryland: Locksley
WVU: Neal Brown

OSU with their umpteenth B1G championship and appearance in the playoff.

Plus as recruiting has become much more national we've got the top talent in our area looking to the south and west. Not saying we're losing recruits to Rutgers, but Maryland has kept a guy or two, and once again fresh coaching brings renewed interest to schools in our back yard making it that much more challenging to pull the top kids.
 
I agree with some of this, however 6 years of data doesn’t really mean anything in regards to this team. Over the prior 6 years, we had players such as Godwin, Trace, saquon, Micah.. maybe by the end of some of our current players careers we can add them to that list of elite players, however nothing we saw this weekend makes me think that’ll happen this year

That is why I addressed the OP that IMO many of the items on his list were a 1-game over-reaction. In pointing out his over-reaction based on 1-game, I referenced 6 years worth of data under Franklin. It's hard to say someone is over-reacting to 1-game, without referencing historical data.

And to your point, what you are saying and what I was saying in one specific point of the OP ... "no downfield passing attack" .... is pretty much the same. THIS year, in a post last week I stated that IMO our depth chart at WR was a scary concern. Look at the teams we had in the last. We had WR threats like Godwin, Hamilton, Blacknall, Hamler.... I do not see that with this group. Heck, I think back to that 2016 team, and I'd say that of that 2016 team, a guy like Johan Dotson would have been our 4th WR. They could surprise. Freshman all over college football are producing more than they ever have. So maybe by mid-season I'll be eating crow and maybe guys like Washington and Lambert will be FR sensations, and our passing game will give defenses a vertical threat. But right now, from what I see, our WRs are not giving any Defensive Coordinator concerns about beating them vertically.
 
One other similarity that I will point out is that in 2000 in our typical recruiting grounds (if you can call what was done back then recruiting) there had been recent coaching changes at the following schools:

Rutgers: Greg Schiano
WVU: Rich Rodriguez
OSU: Jim Tressell
Virginia: Al Groh
Maryland: Ralph Friedgen

Virginia Tech had just come off an 11-0 season and a loss in the Sugar Bowl BCS Championship. The combination of fresh coaching and a strong VT made it much more challenging to pull talent since the attitude at the time was it should be an honor to play for Penn State - as opposed Paterno's line in the commercial several years later "Come to Penn State!!!"

Fast forward to today and we've got these recent coaching changes
Rutgers: Schiano
OSU: Ryan Day
Maryland: Locksley
WVU: Neal Brown

OSU with their umpteenth B1G championship and appearance in the playoff.

Plus as recruiting has become much more national we've got the top talent in our area looking to the south and west. Not saying we're losing recruits to Rutgers, but Maryland has kept a guy or two, and once again fresh coaching brings renewed interest to schools in our back yard making it that much more challenging to pull the top kids.

I think recruiting is getting more national out of necessity. Look at the dwindling numbers of D1 football players produced in PA and there is a reason the staff is spending so much time down in VA and Maryland.
 
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Wow 488 yards of offense on the road where we struggle...with 4 turnovers and 3 missed FG's. The offense certainly was bad, but it wasn't due to bad OL play or not being able to move the ball. It was due to bad turnovers in bad spots. I don't think your post could be any more inaccurate if you tried. You either missed the dark years are or a DQ troll.

+100. Some of us were actually around for the "dark years" and remember them. This team is not even close to any of those teams from 2000,01,03 and 04. For one the defense was better on those teams. :eek:;)
 
If you think this looks like a dark years team, then you didn't watch the dark years.

To give you an idea, PSU in 2003 lost to a 5-5 Northwestern team 17-7. Northwestern outgained PSU 441 - 334 and had more first downs (23 - 19) in this game, even though NW had 3 turnovers. PSU blew a 7-0 lead in the 4th quarter to lose 17-7.

To compare this team that thoroughly dominated almost the entire game playing a vanilla game plan (and lost because of mistakes/turnovers/penalties) to those teams is absurd.
 
-no downfield passing game
-poor offensive line play
-erratic qb play
-no home run rushing attack
-poor special teams
- good defense that plays terrible in the clutch
-no complimentary football
-lose close games
-turnovers

I think you're waaay overreacting to a tough loss.

We came into the year ranked, rightfully so, as one of the top 10 teams in the country.

First game on the road against a very decent team...we lose the starting RB on the first series, finally right the ship in the second half, dominate statistically, and come back late to apparently win...then give it away at the end...with the customary help of the Big Suck refs.

This does not equate to "dark years." Except with respect to the Big Suck refs. Bright years or dark, that never changes.

Check in next week at this time to see whether a reevaluation is in order. ;)
 
-no downfield passing game
-poor offensive line play
-erratic qb play
-no home run rushing attack
-poor special teams
- good defense that plays terrible in the clutch
-no complimentary football
-lose close games
-turnovers
I think you either weren't watching during the dark years or have forgotten.

Please look at the recent thread (new this AM) about advanced stats from Saturday. PSU dominated the game on both sides of the ball. They lost because of turnovers, missed FG, and penalties (and poor officiating). PSU in the Dark Years did not dominate anyone (other than LJ's final season when he just ran wild).
 
I think you either weren't watching during the dark years or have forgotten.

Please look at the recent thread (new this AM) about advanced stats from Saturday. PSU dominated the game on both sides of the ball. They lost because of turnovers, missed FG, and penalties (and poor officiating). PSU in the Dark Years did not dominate anyone (other than LJ's final season when he just ran wild).
PSU lost because of atrocious game management. The other things occurred but they were incidental to the unacceptable coaching.
 
PSU lost because of atrocious game management. The other things occurred but they were incidental to the unacceptable coaching.
1) The turnovers and two makeable FG misses (not faulting 98 on the long miss) led to a 19 point delta in IU's favor. Eliminate any one of those and PSU wins.

2) If by coaching you are referring to the end of game time management, you are wrong. Getting this first down was the correct play. If you are suggesting the Ford was not coached up enough to know to fall down at the 1, then you have a point. But it still all doesn't matter because of #1.
 
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Any comparison of this team to the dark years is ridiculous according to my scientific research. In those days after one quarter I couldn’t watch any more and became totally wasted. Last Saturday, even after the late fourth quarter stupidity and collapse, I probably could have driven to the liquor store for more supplies. Hopefully this coming Saturday will not debunk my initial hypothesis, because my liver will never survive another dark years period.
 
1) The turnovers and two makeable FG misses (not faulting 98 on the long miss) led to a 19 point delta in IU's favor. Eliminate any one of those and PSU wins.

2) If by coaching you are referring to the end of game time management, you are wrong. Getting this first down was the correct play. If you are suggesting the Ford was not coached up enough to know to fall down at the 1, then you have a point. But it still all doesn't matter because of #1.
If #2 is managed properly, then everything else is irrelevant.
 
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Not the dark years, but not close to a championship-caliber team. Just an upper middle of the pack B10 team. Going forward, we'll win 1 out of 6 against Ohio State and lose to an improving Indiana (or Northwestern or Purdue). The trajectory is not up -- it is flat. Poor recruiting this cycle and I do not see the trajectory changing much. We just do not get that difference-maker at QB or on the DL. And for some reason our young WRs have fled the program recently (even after a change in coaches, which happens every other year). Now the "deep" RB room looks like a broom closet. Maybe I'm wrong, and hope I am.
 
1) The turnovers and two makeable FG misses (not faulting 98 on the long miss) led to a 19 point delta in IU's favor. Eliminate any one of those and PSU wins.

2) If by coaching you are referring to the end of game time management, you are wrong. Getting this first down was the correct play. If you are suggesting the Ford was not coached up enough to know to fall down at the 1, then you have a point. But it still all doesn't matter because of #1.
Exactly. PSU lost the game due to 4 turnovers and 3 missed FG's. There is no way around that. Saying otherwise with that many mistakes is like saying only the final 2 minutes counted...the rest did not. Of course anytime you lose the staff makes mistakes, but the bad physical mistakes made a blowout W into a Loss.
 
-no downfield passing game
-poor offensive line play
-erratic qb play
-no home run rushing attack
-poor special teams
- good defense that plays terrible in the clutch
-no complimentary football
-lose close games
-turnovers
soooo you extrapolated one game into a what will for sure happen in the next few years - Nostradamus has nothing on you.
 
Not the dark years, but not close to a championship-caliber team. Just an upper middle of the pack B10 team. Going forward, we'll win 1 out of 6 against Ohio State and lose to an improving Indiana (or Northwestern or Purdue). The trajectory is not up -- it is flat. Poor recruiting this cycle and I do not see the trajectory changing much. We just do not get that difference-maker at QB or on the DL. And for some reason our young WRs have fled the program recently (even after a change in coaches, which happens every other year). Now the "deep" RB room looks like a broom closet. Maybe I'm wrong, and hope I am.

Hey Sherlock we must have a helluva recruiting class this year if the recruiting trajectory is down since next year’s class is currently ranked 3rd nationally. Honest to god do you guys stay up at night thinking up what more whining nonsense you can post the next day?
 
Hey Sherlock we must have a helluva recruiting class this year if the recruiting trajectory is down since next year’s class is currently ranked 3rd nationally. Honest to god do you guys stay up at night thinking up what more whining nonsense you can post the next day?
I may have missed it...are 2022 recruits signed?
 
If #1 isn't the case, #2 is irrelevant. You are comparing five mistakes to one mistake. Fix any one of the five earlier in the game and the one never comes up.
That is correct. But they are two entirely different kinds of mistakes. If the game was started at 1:46 remaining and a 4th grade coaching decision was made, the game is won. Inexcusable.

Physical mistakes happen. Justin Fields threw an incompletion last Saturday. If it were not for that “mistake”, he would have completed every single pass and O$U may have tacked on another score.
 
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