This looks very much like a "Dark Years" PSU Team
- Thread starter ButlerEagle
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It was? I have not heard CJF state that for the record. Even if he did, he certainly did not communicate it adequately and plan accordingly. Inexcusable loss.
He has said you don't want to score there and they didn't do a good job of coaching it.
He has not said that they should have taken knees starting on their first play of the possession (which I believe is what you are advocating for). He has not said that because it is (mathematically) not the correct decision.
You only know that if Indiana does not try to tackle the player. Otherwise, the safe play and a virtual guaranteed victory (99.9%) involves the ball never leaving Cliff’s hands. He did not prepare the team for these two possibilities and did not communicate it adequately. Basic 101 stuff. Inexcusable.
As we saw, 99.9% does not equal 100%. To get to 100% you get the first down, then take knees.
No. The 99.9 % included not getting the 1st down. What if Indiana had played it straight up and tried to stop Ford? And then stripped him of the ball like we did right before the half (bad job by Allen to run a running play rather than take a knee) Getting the 1st down = ~100%. But they have to “let” you. No need to take that chance because of the above. Scoring because coaching is not at a 4th grade level lowers the odds. THAT is what you saw.
Can’t argue with armchairs who are convinced they are smart because they can tell if a play all was correct after it is over
Our 2020 ranking is third in the B10, behind Oh State and Mich, nearly tied with Wisconsin and Nebraska. We have no 5 stars and twice as many 3 stars as 4 stars. Our 2021 ranking is 10th in the B10. And we lost to an Indiana team that hasn't beaten a ranked opponent in years. A game that should have been won with better game day coaching, as has been the case with many of our close losses in the past 4 years. I wish I had confidence that this team was close to a B10 championship. But that is just not realistic if you take an honest look at the facts.
For whatever reason, PSU seems to be alone in not being able to lockup the top 3-5 recruits in the state on an annual basis. When i look at the top recruits in Ohio, they all or most have been committed to the Bucks since their junior year. Wisconsin locks up their state best. Pennsylvania top recruits for the most part go elsewhere ( Fleming, Rucci, etc)
No they don't have to let you. You can get the first down even if they are trying to stop you. Either way you are burning more clock than with knees and if you get the first down you now have a 100% win. You are mathematically incorrect here.
You can play whatever "what ifs" you like (what if the shotgun snap to Clifford for the kneel down goes over his head and IU returns it for a TD or into FG range?) but the math supports getting the first down, falling down at the 1.5 yard line and then taking knees.
But it did come up - and we blew it. As bad as #1 was, we had the lead with 1;42 to go and the ball on our opponents 15 yard line. The 1st down was no where near important as running out the clock. The ball should have been in the hands of your most experienced offensive player, your QB. He could have used up 5-7 seconds per play plus 40 seconds between plays. You then call your own TO and kick the field goal or have QB drop back 25 yards and heave it as high and far as he can. IU would have had 75-80 yards to go with no TO’s down by 1 or 4 depending on how you play it out and somewhere around 10-15 seconds. Some will say no way you kick the FG fearing block and return, but I’d then ask them what they thought about PSU attempting the long game winner.
Now Noah Cain out for the year. I’d say this is more like a 2000 or 2001 type year. Those teams had talent (LJ, etc) but had injuries, locker room issues, poor coaching and really had just a general black cloud that hung over the team those two years. This definitely seems like where this season is going. Looking very much like 4-4 or 3-5.
Settle down.
Sucks Cain is out, but he didn't play for most of the game on Saturday and the offense was quite good.
Doesn't leave much depth (which is concerning) but the three guys we have should be fine.
Didn't read the rest of the thread but PSU had almost 500 yards of offense. They had given up 135 when the stupidity started.
This isn't a dark years team. This was a game with zero attention to detail, zero creativity, and inability to just play fast. It was a 7 point game last year with IU, two years ago it was 5, in 2016 it was close until a late fumble. The odds caught up.
It's just another standard Franklin season most likely. Play OSU close, probably get shellacked in Ann Arbor, maybe lose another. Then play the bowl game with similar sloppiness.
This isn't a dark years team. This was a game with zero attention to detail, zero creativity, and inability to just play fast. It was a 7 point game last year with IU, two years ago it was 5, in 2016 it was close until a late fumble. The odds caught up.
It's just another standard Franklin season most likely. Play OSU close, probably get shellacked in Ann Arbor, maybe lose another. Then play the bowl game with similar sloppiness.
Yea this thread from the OP is an epic fail.
We probably didn't have 500 yards of offense in 2 total games during the "dark years".
Because you say so, LOL?? And you’ve played and coached where? We’ve seen it twice in one weekend. Time was the most important factor at that point.
Franklin screwed up - it’s as simple as that. It’s not the end of the world, but he should have been absolutely sure that everyone knew that the worst outcome was scoring. The results are in - and obviously he didn’t.
I can do math. That's all you need to know to know that you cannot run out the clock here.
Well I can too (PSU degree), but can you read? I never said run out the clock completely, duh!
So what is your end game then?
You either kick a FG (and risk a block 6, or KO return) or you kneel on 4th down. Assuming you lose 4 yards per kneel down, you give them the ball on the 30 yard line with what...15 seconds left? So they need to get 40 yards to try a 47 yard game winning FG....certainly doable.
Or you can run the clock completely out by getting the first down.
People who claim any coach would have been in victory formation are just Monday morning geniuses. It obviously didn’t work, but no onE takes a knee if they can’t run out the clock to zero
Do you remember the first half of Buffalo last year, Pitt last year, or App State before that? I've seen this game before almost every year in game one or two. It just happened that PSU's talent was enough to overcome or, in the case of Pitt, the other team makes the fatal error like Ford did. THIS HAPPENS EVERY YEAR!!!!!!
1). I never said victory formation and straight kneel down. I said it should never leave 14’s hands.
2) The end game is PSU wins either 21-20 or 24-20. There is no way they are going to return the kickoff the way sStout was booming them through the back of the end zone. I like my chances a whole lot better with IU having to go 75 yards for a TD or even 40 yards for a FG with 15 seconds an no timeouts vs a timeout and 1:36. And 15 seconds is really about 12 since you can’t spike it under 3.
And if you were concerned about a blocked FG attempt, did you question the long attempt at the end of regulation?
You are not even close to correct. Under your scenario, getting the first down is a given? Was it a given when we were stuffed 4 straight plays earlier in the game? Sure if you are given the first down, you take it. But you have to fall down short of the goal. If they do not yield the first down you take a knee. And the ball should never have left Clifford’s hands. You do realize that is nearly the unanimous consensus on the proper strategy. Are you aware football people everywhere are literally laughing at CJF and Penn State for his clock management during this sequence? The strategy is 4th grade football.
I am beginning to wonder if you just jerking my chain (if you are, bravo!)? If you are serious, then you are either bucking for a job on CJF’s staff or the “UNC” means you took some Tar Heel athletics math class.
Or they are looking at in game analytics.
Just because “no one takes a knee” doesn’t mean you shouldn’t. A consensus opinion among football coaches, who are notoriously resistant to change, shouldn’t be used as justification.
OK... let's break this down...
-no downfield passing game --- IU was putting 7 sometimes 8 in the box and their secondary was blanketed on the WR all day. They purposefully took away the long ball, but it is on the WR for not getting separation, not the QB, not the OL, not the RB... the WR
-poor offensive line play --- 488 yds of total offense and you say the OL played poorly... lmfao
-erratic qb play --- see Clifford's post game comments
-no home run rushing attack --- he went down preseason, and the backup went down for the season during the first drive. Ford is a good backup, not much more. So we're down to 2 true freshmen... give it time
-poor special teams --- during game action, first game, against a very good opponent... the issues here are fixable
- good defense that plays terrible in the clutch ---
-no complimentary football --- actually the Offense was very well balanced
-lose close games --- it was ONE game... give it a rest
-turnovers --- really? all teams at all levels have turnovers. The 2 interceptions were poorly thrown balls. Levis misread the Defensive Alignment and their push into the backfield caused the fumble. These are all 'fixable'.
Im just responding to comments that every coach at every level would have taken a knee in that situation. That’s false
Watch the video in the Ciarrocca's Debut thread... go to the end where he breaks down the last TD run by Ford. Pay attention. Just as Ford gets to the goal line he realizes what IU did and tried to pull up and stop. Unfortunately he didn't realize it soon enough and just drop beyond the 1st down marker.
You don't know what unanimous means. I'm not the only person saying this, even on this board. Therefore, not unanimous.
Your logic is wrong. If IU doesn't give up the first down (irrelevant since they did), then you are burning more clock than you would have by kneeling down AND not giving up yardage. So even if you don't get the first down, you are in a better place (both in terms of time and field position) than for your plan. My plan, if executed, results in 100% win percentage. Your plan is executed allows the other team a shot. I have no idea why this is so hard for you to grasp. I'm just glad you aren't on the PSU staff.
It's also funny that when you run out of logical arguments you take shots at UNC (my other alma mater). This is equivalent of Pitters bringing up Sandusky. They don't know the facts (in your case, the math department had nothing to do with anything at UNC) but don't let that stand in the way of their hatred/jealousy of the university/program.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The card says take a knee at 1:22.<br><br>There was 1:47 left in the Penn State-Indiana game Saturday.<br><br>"Penn State was right. They had to run one more play; however, don't score."<a href="https://twitter.com/CoachUrbanMeyer?ref_src=twsrc^tfw">@CoachUrbanMeyer</a> and <a href="https://twitter.com/gerrydinardo?ref_src=twsrc^tfw">@gerrydinardo</a> break down late-game clock management. <br><br>📍 <a href="https://twitter.com/Speedway?ref_src=twsrc^tfw">@Speedway</a> <a href="https://t.co/G05oHFXXye">pic.twitter.com/G05oHFXXye</a></p>— Big Ten Network (@bigtennetwork) <a href="">October 28, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
I am not out of logic...you are out in on island if you think that not clearly instructing the team not to score or even to hand the ball off was a a strategy worth considering when a worse case result was to give Indiana possession of the ball around their own 15 yard line with no time outs and between 12 and 20 seconds on the clock.
My UNC comment was just poking a little fun at your Board name (sorry you took it so personally - my apologies). As I assumed you were poking fun at me by continuing to argue a point that has the football world laughing (yes laughing) at Franklin and thus Penn State. Figured you have to be pulling my chain.
I will close with this. It was the worst error in coaching I have seen in 50+years of playing, coaching and watching sports. The analytics bear this out beyond dispute.
Should have beaten the Luckeyes that year at the Beav. As I remember a questionable call helped the Luckeyes per usual.
You are wrong on this. It was discussed on BTN by Urban and DiNardo who both agreed you had to run a play (apparently there is even an "end of game chart" for this).
Yes, Ford should not have scored. So whatever mechanism for communicating that to the players failed. That is on the coaches.
But the decision to run a play was absolutely the correct one.
You will never get the Franklin haters to agree. That would mean they couldn’t blame the loss entirely on him
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