Thoughts on Meatchicken

[slushhead]

Tried to post this last night, but not in time to beat "system maintenance" . . .

Fun dual, even if some matches were too close for comfort. Good crowd and lively atmosphere.

125: Friggin' basketball.

133: Micic is better than what went down in Las Vegas. We knew that and were reminded tonight. Still have faith in Keener scoring at Nationals.

141: Lee came out strong and relentless. I was worried about his pace and the inevitable build-up to the moment, but he finished the job. Nicely done. He'll become even more savvy with more time under the lights.

149: What in tarnation was Amine thinking?

157: Credit to Pantaleo for his focus, patience, and execution. Nolf won't make it that easy for him next time. Pantaleo showed his hand.

165: Can I say I could watch Joseph's teetering, back-breaking trips of Massa a thousand times each in super slow-motion and never come close to understanding how the heck he comes out on top? Like a Moore twin, but thick. I expect a tougher match next time, though, assuming Massa is healthy and has had more mat time since coming back. Credit to him for taking the mat tonight.

174: Would have liked to see Hall stay on offense and not let Amine back into it. Yes, he had everything under control, but still . . . going for the jugular could be good practice. Unless he's holding some cards for later.

184: Good match with plenty of controversy. Noodle Arms can be a sly one! I'm not concerned, though. This was a good match to have at this point in the season.

197: The Iron Sheed impresses again. Great to see the leg attacks, cradle attacks, and ride. A solid portfolio with enough horsepower to score huge points for this team.

285: Coon is large. Nevills has more tough customers coming down the pike -- time to buckle down.

 

[lauren68]

I saw the same strategy with Mich that I saw with Lehigh. Shorten the match with counters and look for 1 or 2 great shots. Hey it seemed to work in both places but in the end those wrestlers still lost. I also think come tourney time the officials will make these guys wrestle.

 

[dunkej01]

Our guys looked off to me. Credit to meatchicken but our guys have beaten better guys by more.

Mark and Bo could have lost. Bo probably should have.

Nolf was never not in control but again him riding to ride just feels weird.

Keener lost to Micic last year 16-6 so for as bad as it looked it was an improvement

 

[RoarLions1]

Well done slushie...nothing to add. Fair, balanced, and on the cup-half-full side .

 

[matter7172]

I will give Michigan a lot of credit for their effort last night. They were miles more competitive than they were against Lehigh (which was just embarrassing for the Wolverines).

I see Nolf as just recognizing he didn't have it for whatever reason and grinding out a win. Good, in a way, to see him do that.

Joseph and Rasheed were very, very impressive.

Nevills seems to be in a real funk. Hope he finds his way out of it.

 

[Ranger Dan]

Do you think Bo should have lost his match?

 

[ptomaselli]

I will give Michigan a lot of credit for their effort last night. They were miles more competitive than they were against Lehigh (which was just embarrassing for the Wolverines).

I see Nolf as just recognizing he didn't have it for whatever reason and grinding out a win. Good, in a way, to see him do that.

Joseph and Rasheed were very, very impressive.

Nevills seems to be in a real funk. Hope he finds his way out of it.

Coon is the wrong guy to be in a funk with. Solid wrestler in addition to being one of the LARGEST men I’ve seen...and a rocket scientist too.

 

[greenmanRD]

Do you think Bo should have lost his match?

Bo should have given up a takedown but he would still have had time to escape.

 

[SRATH]

Give UM credit. They put a great product out there last night. They looked rested and ready. Kudos to Massa who was not rested and ready and went out and scrapped anyway.

Some of our guys looked tentative/tired. They could be training really hard right through the weekend. The parts of the puzzle which needed to look good, did well.

 

[tikk10]

I like Schnupp too and think he'll grow into a spot one day, it's just that he really looks like he's class and a half below 125. He executes well and has good instincts but the weight and strength difference really show up at this level.

I agree Keener can get a few wins at Nationals and maybe surprise someone he's not supposed to beat, but probably not and that's okay.

Agree that Lee nearly outpaced himself last night and looked sluggish when the adrenaline wore off. As tough as it will be to get on the 141 podium this year I'd be surprised if he's not in the mix. McKenna will be a great gauge.

Amine was actually wrestling Zain pretty tough up to the point where things went south.

Agree with what IMar implied on Twitter, that the Panteleo Nolf match was a product of good scouting. They had a plan to beat Nolf and it involved not letting him get near your legs and countering hard when Nolf overextended himself. Impressed with Nolf for staying within himself and riding Panteleo out in the third instead of letting him up and going takedowns again. Pretty sure that would've worked too (Nolf's takedowns come easier as matches progress) but riding him out made a statement of its own.

This match will be remembered for yet another great Cenzo inside trip but Cenzo was having his way with Massa to that point. Willing to grant that Massa was coming off an injury hiatus and it might be closer next time. Cenzo likely put Massa on IMar's side of the B1G bracket last night.

Hall and Bo both looked a little lethargic, Bo nearly paid for it. Bo's late takedown would've been a reverse if Abounader was given the 2, so it's not as if the match was stolen but it wasn't a good look. Hall needs to convert some leg attacks against top guys because they all know he's only interested in that duck.

Iron Sheed taking on and crushing all jabronis. Amazing how easily he gets to legs, his giving up weight for speed is similar to the advantage Snyder has at Heavy. Still looks slightly unpolished but it's not really an issue at 197 like it seemed at 165/174. This year being an off year for 197 it's easy to envision Iron Sheed on the podium.

Coon made Nick look small. Would've liked to see Nick try to get to Coon's legs in the first because once Coon got in on his it was over. Coon would've been a national champ in a Snyder-less era. No shame in losing to him.

 

[a_mshaffer]

had to go to btn2go on my phone and stream it on tv to catch 125.
Keener with a couple of misdirection shots to no avail and can't finish a single in deep... almost though
Lee is free - we're all wanting him to have Zain's stamina... hopefully he can get there - he tired in the 3rd.
Zain, Nolf - no worries
Cenzo - man, is he comfortable and strong. Feel like he can create action and shoot for 2 at will
Hall - same as above.. wish he would create action and offense. One TD can go wrong (see Iowa) sometimes.
Bo - should have been down and needing an escape. Kudo's to the UM guy to keep shooting
Sheed - show some kinks in the armor by not being able to finish on big kids. Regardless, you have to love his motion in neutral
Nick - got to see some O some time! Needs to create offense outside of his high single to his left... Was hoping he could ride a bit more. Wrestling a 'big' boy

 

[GOLDBANGER]

Cenzo has brass coconuts bigger than Bayonne.

 

[TangSoo]

I really like the effort Schnupp gives. He was born 20 years or so too late. Would make a really good 118er.

Lee looked good, tired late. They might swing by tOSU on the way home and get him a little color.

Pantaleo is better than the version that Zain savaged. Maybe he's just a tough matchup for Nolf. Styles make fights. With the height difference, the way he keeps position and his quickness and strength on counters, just think he's a tougher matchup for Nolf than Zain.

I'm starting to think Cenzo is one of the few people (other than the coaches and teammates) who knows how good Cenzo is. He doesn't tire because he's so relaxed because he knows he got this. Going upper body at the end when he could've just run the clock out was extremely impressive. I hope they keep thinking last year was fluky.

Mark scares me a bit. His matches run closer than they need to.

Bo has more of a track record, not concerned. Credit to Abounader. Good match.

The iron Shak looks good. I think Raptor would've blast doubled the hell of that guy, but Shak earned his turn and dominated.

Nick in a bit of a funk. There's time to turn it around. That's a large human being though with skills.

 

[El-Jefe]

165: Can I say I could watch Joseph's teetering, back-breaking trips of Massa a thousand times each in super slow-motion and never come close to understanding how the heck he comes out on top? Like a Moore twin, but thick. I expect a tougher match next time, though, assuming Massa is healthy and has had more mat time since coming back. Credit to him for taking the mat tonight.

Cenzo's post-match interview with Byers was hilarious. Asked about being ready for the body lock: Franny Bisono wanted to work upper body with me this week. I let him get a bunch of body locks and threw him to his back every time. I think I've only been thrown once since I got here, by Bo. He's pretty good at that.

 

[slushhead]

Cenzo's post-match interview with Byers was hilarious. Asked about being ready for the body lock: Franny Bisono wanted to work upper body with me this week. I let him get a bunch of body locks and threw him to his back every time. I think I've only been thrown once since I got here, by Bo. He's pretty good at that.

Ha, that might help explain the wry smile he had when coming off the mat last night.

 

[tikk10]

I'm starting to think Cenzo is one of the few people (other than the coaches and teammates) who knows how good Cenzo is. He doesn't tire because he's so relaxed because he knows he got this. Going upper body at the end when he could've just run the clock out was extremely impressive. I hope they keep thinking last year was fluky.

One big difference between last year and this year is Cenzo's gas tank. It improved over the course of last year but there were plenty of matches during the season when Cenzo was just hanging on in the third. Haven't noticed him hanging on in any match this season.

 

[Fatmarc]

I saw the same strategy with Mich that I saw with Lehigh. Shorten the match with counters and look for 1 or 2 great shots. Hey it seemed to work in both places but in the end those wrestlers still lost. I also think come tourney time the officials will make these guys wrestle.

this 100% . That was what I saw too... it was a great match, Michigan looked to slow down matches.. it was a good strategy... Fun match to watch... Loved watching Lee be free, and Sheed is so fun right now... Nevils will be fine. I have faith...

respect
m

 

[Dogwelder]

... Lee looked good, tired late. They might swing by tOSU on the way home and get him a little color ...

Good one!

 

[psualt]

Just watched the Zain match again. Can’t imagine he has had a more satisfying win in a dual this year than that pin. I’m not so sure that amine wasn’t hoping to get DQd. He knew he was giving up 6 one way or the other.

 

[NittanyChris]

I know Massa was just coming off an injury and was rusty, but Cenzo just looks spectacular. Confident, relaxed, in control the whole way. His second takedown was a thing of beauty.

It's been very popular for PSU haters to point to Cenzo and state there's no way he repeats, that IMar gets revenge this season.

Last year it was a big upset when Cenzo beat IMar. This year it's looking like even money or Cenzo as a slight favorite.

 

[nitlion6]

I know Massa was just coming off an injury and was rusty, but Cenzo just looks spectacular. Confident, relaxed, in control the whole way. His second takedown was a thing of beauty.

It's been very popular for PSU haters to point to Cenzo and state there's no way he repeats, that IMar gets revenge this season.

Last year it was a big upset when Cenzo. This year it's looking like even money or Cenzo as a slight favorite.

I am not sure I would label Cenzo a slight favorite over IMar, but he isn't giving an inch so nor is he an underdog either.

He is powerful, talented and extremely confident in his abilities.

 

[Carl Spackler]

First time to see Rasheed wrestle last night, relentless, strong, able, fast, very, very fast for the weight class, looks like a 149/157 class wrestler in a larger body. I came away very impressed!

Zain's opponent appeared to be a bit chippy at the open, to me. The ref warned him at one pt. in the 1st if I remember but it didn't matter the attitude when the hand came down, nor daddy, it was 6.

There were more close matches the I'm accustomed to and it was entertaining but UM had highly ranked wrestlers, not slouches.

That HWT was enormous. NIck and he appeared to be wresting the same style and Nick was giving up a lot of good weight. The conf. has a remarkable HWT lineup.

Cenzo smiled through half the match, the 2nd half. He really looks confident, ready for anything last night.

Looking forward to the end of the month with big game anticipation.

 

[RandyL]

Cenzo was also remarkably quick when he counter-shot of Massa's efforts.
I agree that he is a better wrestler now than last year, win or lose it all.

 

[PSUer1989]

Are you all saying that our athletes improve in the room? I have heard from multiple reliable sources that they were just born that way...

 

[nitlion6]

Are you all saying that our athletes improve in the room? I have heard from multiple reliable sources that they were just born that way...

The progression is ordained.

 

[diggerpup]

During this past off season, even after this past NCAA 165 final, I would have set the odds of Joseph beating IMar again at 40/60 or worse.

However, Cenzo has definitely hit his stride and blossomed. I’d set Joseph’s odds vs IMar now at worse 50/50, and possibly 60/40.

 

[PSUAllTheWay]

As defending champions, we get everybody's best shot. Michigan was no different. Kudos to them for coming out hard in ever match. And a big thank you to them as I'm sure the tough matches will help PSU down the road. Particularly Nolf, Hall, and Bo. Pinning everybody is fun for us fans but going the distance against a really tough opponent prepares you for Nationals.

 

[nitlion6]

As defending champions, we get everybody's best shot. Michigan was no different. Kudos to them for coming out hard in ever match. And a big thank you to them as I'm sure the tough matches will help PSU down the road. Particularly Nolf, Hall, and Bo. Pinning everybody is fun for us fans but going the distance against a really tough opponent prepares you for Nationals.

Sometimes it is good to be reminded that everybody is not going to concede. Smaller Amine should have though.

 

[razpsu]

Michigan guys were muscle specimens. I can’t remember which wrestler it was maybe against nickel but the guy got pissed and used all his strength and reversed nickel and nickel had to concede it.

Great thing about all the matches with great wrestlers hey go to the basics. Penn state did a great job winning the close matches when they were close. Maybe they were off. Maybe they were surprised that Michigan wrestled so well. Michigan in some of those matches had more in the tank at the end then we did but we were ahead and didn’t let them win. Good learning for us and Great match. Coon is a tank and Neville needs more muscle and less stuffing around the middle. When coon was on top Neville couldn’t move. He should finish all American and that will help the team. I want to see coon and Snyder this year. That will be a huge billing. One that may be last at NCAA finals.

 

[Lyons212]

I am not sure I would label Cenzo a slight favorite over IMar, but he isn't giving an inch so nor is he an underdog either.

He is powerful, talented and extremely confident in his abilities.

This time last year, Cenzo was an underdog to Massa, he is now a solid favorite.

 

[tabenn]

This time last year, Cenzo was an underdog to Massa, he is now a solid favorite.

No doubt Cenzo is in Massa head now, Massa was really up for this rematch and Cenzo controlled the match. it will be a uphill battle for Massa from here on out.

 

[Dogwelder]

No doubt Cenzo is in Massa head now, Massa was really up for this rematch and Cenzo controlled the match. it will be a uphill battle for Massa from here on out.

I have a little doubt because I have no idea if Massa is the type of guy who lets people into his head. After Cenzo had lost to IMar before NCAAs, was IMar in Cenzo’s head? I don’t know either.

 

[RoarLions1]

165, as do most of the weight classes, has some storylines that I'm excited to see play out.

-- Cenzo and IMar are clearly #1 and #2 right now, and would be favored to meet in the B1G Finals...winner gets #1 seed at the NCAA Championships
-- McFadden and Walsh are both undefeated...remain so, and what happens to the wrestler that loses in the B1G Finals? Stays #2? Moves behind a possibly undefeated McFadden or Walsh?
-- McFadden's closest bout was a 4-3 win vs Chandler Rogers, and he pinned Evan Wick
-- Massa lost to Evan Wick, and gets him again at Michigan's next dual, I believe
-- The Big Ten is loaded at 165, with Campbell, Marinelli, Lewis, Wanzek, and White, in addition to those mentioned

It'll be fun watching the season play out, unlikely Massa gets a 3-seed right now, and he could be 4/5, meaning a tough match-up for the #1 seed in the semi's, assuming Massa wins in the quarters. In fact, every bout from the R16 on looks like they could be closely contested at 165, certainly the R8.

 

[BruceK-PSU83]

No doubt Cenzo is in Massa head now, Massa was really up for this rematch and Cenzo controlled the match. it will be a uphill battle for Massa from here on out.

Well, I have doubt - I doubt you are familiar with Massa's mental state. However, I suspect he doesn't lack confidence against any opponent. Plus, it was Massa's first match after a 1 month layoff from injury, so he probably had some rust.

 

[tabenn]

I have a little doubt because I have no idea if Massa is the type of guy who lets people into his head. After Cenzo had lost to IMar before NCAAs, was IMar in Cenzo’s head? I don’t know either.

I say no to Imar being in Cenzo head, just due to the fact that Cenzo was beating Imar before the pin

 

[tabenn]

Well, I have doubt - I doubt you are familiar with Massa's mental state. However, I suspect he doesn't lack confidence against any opponent. Plus, it was Massa's first match after a 1 month layoff from injury, so he probably had some rust.

when you wrestle an opponent that has beaten you in the past, chances are that loss is in your head, if it was a solid beating or just a bad day, No I do not have first hand knowledge of Massa mental state. But I have watch Massa enough to know that he is a competitor and he was 100% confident that he could beat Cenzo friday night...no bad calls, Cenzo beat him at all staged of the match..being in his head is simply an old wrestling say..but it had merit.

 

[tabenn]

One big difference between last year and this year is Cenzo's gas tank. It improved over the course of last year but there were plenty of matches during the season when Cenzo was just hanging on in the third. Haven't noticed him hanging on in any match this season.

I agree! but also I think Cenzo has grown into the weight completely! strength wise he matches or is stronger then all at this weight. In my mind he beat Imar again.

 

[Divided42]

A Michigan fans thoughts. First of all great dual, you all have some great wrestlers, duh. Wife's family is all PSU so I have learned to respect and admire PSU.

Anyway didn't like Amine's slight dirtiness vs Zain but well other than that he came very close to going 7 minutes with Zain, for a wrestler of his caliber I'll call that a win.

Went into the Nolf vs Pantaleo match thinking if Alec kept it to a decision that'd be a good performance. Great performance by Alec props to Nolf for grinding one out in the 3rd. For as great a scouting job as was done before the match, I thought taking down vs Nolf was an epically bad coaching decision. Pantaleo's one and only strength as a wrestler is on his feet, he's always sucked at mat wrestling. Attempt to win the match playing to your strengths especially coming off 2 straight takedowns. Been a while since I've seen Nolf look human, good to know he still is. Think @TangSoo is onto it, it's a style thing with Nolf and Pantaleo

Yikes not a good performance by Massa. Cenzo was in control the whole way, but yet Massa had a shot to win in another crazy scramble. Props to Cenzo, and props to McFarland and Massa for letting it fly and wrestling. If that was Tom Ryan, never in a million years would he have been out there.

Myles Amine has looked really bad recently so it was good to see the 2nd half of that match vs Hall. Amine has come close vs Zahid and now Hall, hoping he can get over the hump vs BoJo

Not that Abounader would have won, but jeez how do you not call that? Ah well life goes on.

I had a sneaking suspicion when Beazley transferred to Michigan that he pulled what I like to call a "Youtsey". Aka where you aren't a AA level wrestler all season or near it but then get it done at NCAAs. Youtsey showed it was possible to do it 2 years in a row so he's got that going for him I guess. Rasheed is impressive, I think I like his potential the most of your three 97's. Get that kid 10+ pounds of muscle in the offseason to be a full size 97 and he'll be a force.

Is it just me or was I more impressed with Nevills last year. Maybe the weight hurt him by lessening what made him excellent? Coon is large and knows how to use it, and for as big as he is, cutting from 300 in the offseason, he isn't sloppy like most college heavyweights that big. Just wish he would have redshirted his frosh year so he could have been a 4 timer finishing top 3 all 4 years like he should have been if not for McFarland's penchant for throwing frosh out there for no reason. Not going to happen but man it'd be nice to see him slay the dragon and beat Snyder in the NCAA finals, and even more if that meant the difference of having PSU beat OSU.

 

[BDB57]

Divided42.....I've not seen you on this board before but any wrestling fan that comes here simply talking about the sport without an agenda is a breath of fresh air! WELCOME to our house.

I can relate to your dilemma with the "blended" family. My wife's father was an econ professor at UM and lived in Whitmore Lake. Our family visits to Michigan was a bad influence on my son. I think I failed him as he grew up a Michigan fan and just as bad he remains an Eagles fan and roots against my Steelers. However the worst of it is we had to paint his bedroom Blue and maze with a UM boarder. I gets worse! He successfully walked on the PSU football team and when I asked if we could redo his room, he said not yet.

 

[ClarkstonMark]

Divided42.....I've not seen you on this board before but any wrestling fan that comes here simply talking about the sport without an agenda is a breath of fresh air! WELCOME to our house.

I can relate to your dilemma with the "blended" family. My wife's father was an econ professor at UM and lived in Whitmore Lake. Our family visits to Michigan was a bad influence on my son. I think I failed him as he grew up a Michigan fan and just as bad he remains an Eagles fan and roots against my Steelers. However the worst of it is we had to paint his bedroom Blue and maze with a UM boarder. I gets worse! He successfully walked on the PSU football team and when I asked if we could redo his room, he said not yet.

That's funny.
I've lived in MI since I graduated from PSU in 90. My girlfriend of the past 4 years grew up in a UM family, and is a huge UM fan (she hates wrestling though). I always enjoy our wins in FB, VB, hockey, etc