Thoughts on Michigan & Michigan State

[bdgan]

How good are these teams this year?

Michigan beat 2 patsies but also beat Washington handily (343 rushing yards).

I didn't expect much from Michigan State this year but they rebuilt their team in the portal. They beat Northwestern and Miami while averaging 500 yds on offense.

The BiG conference alignment is ridiculous with OSU, PSU, UM, and MSU in the same division. Maryland (3-0), Rutgers (3-0), and Indiana are competitive.

Add the top two teams from the west (Iowa & Wisconsin) and Auburn. This could be one of the most difficult schedules ever.

 

[Obliviax]

How good are these teams this year?

Michigan beat 2 patsies but also beat Washington handily (343 rushing yards).

I didn't expect much from Michigan State this year but they rebuilt their team in the portal. They beat Northwestern and Miami while averaging 500 yds on offense.

The BiG conference alignment is ridiculous with OSU, PSU, UM, and MSU in the same division. Maryland (3-0), Rutgers (3-0), and Indiana are competitive.

Add the top two teams from the west (Iowa & Wisconsin) and Auburn. This could be one of the most difficult schedules ever.

Michigan has played nobody. Washington really stinks this year. They lost to Montana in their opener. They have good athletes but haven't seemed to gel under Harbaugh. But it is UM and they will play us tough. Sparty looks like a good physical team. They have a lot of portal transfers playing. I feel like they've snuck up on teams. They took Miami behind the woodshed and just physically pounded them. I feel like both are in the Wisconsin/Auburn class: tough, physical teams that want to run the ball first and have decent QB's to compliment the run with the pass. On defense, they stuff the run and are stout.

 

[PSU Soupy]

I think both Michigan schools are going to be tough wins.
Not sure that anyone runs the table in the big 10 this year.

 

[psuro]

Mel Tucker is taking a page from the Duffy Daugherty play book and bringing in guys that can't/won't be able to play for other programs.

 

[RickinDayton]

I think both Michigan schools are going to be tough wins.
Not sure that anyone runs the table in the big 10 this year.

Agree.

 

[TheWizardofCamelot]

While I agree that all of these teams have improved and are good - I'm starting to get the feeling that we match up really well with all of them. They are all run-dependent and have good defenses. But their QBs are game managers and not asked to do A LOT. If we play solid defense, with a turnover or two, our offense is diverse and explosive enough that the opposition won't be able to keep up.

 

[bdgan]

I think both Michigan schools are going to be tough wins.
Not sure that anyone runs the table in the big 10 this year.

We have a good team but the schedule is extremely difficult. After Villanova the next easiest game might be Indiana and they hung tough with a top 10 team on Saturday.

I think a one loss team will win the east this year and it will come down to head to head tiebreaker. Could this be the year when UM and PSU both beat OSU?

 

[PSU Soupy]

Mel Tucker is taking a page from the Duffy Daugherty play book and bringing in guys that can't/won't be able to play for other programs.

Like Nebraska in the 80s??

 

[psuro]

Like Nebraska in the 80s??

I was not aware of Nebraska doing that - I thought they were just telling the future OL to simply stay on the farm and get bigger naturally and then come to Lincoln and get juiced up and play OL.


Duffy Daugherty was the MSU coach in the 1960s - he pulled a lot of black kids from the south to play at MSU because they couldn't/wouldn't play at the local southern schools. That is the correlation I made with what Mel Tucker is doing with the portal - he is taking in kids that can't/won't play at other schools and giving them an opportunity.

 

[SR108]

How good are these teams this year?

Michigan beat 2 patsies but also beat Washington handily (343 rushing yards).

I didn't expect much from Michigan State this year but they rebuilt their team in the portal. They beat Northwestern and Miami while averaging 500 yds on offense.

The BiG conference alignment is ridiculous with OSU, PSU, UM, and MSU in the same division. Maryland (3-0), Rutgers (3-0), and Indiana are competitive.

Add the top two teams from the west (Iowa & Wisconsin) and Auburn. This could be one of the most difficult schedules ever.

Yep, as good as we are playing, we have a difficult row to hoe. The game this week is important to help build depth.

 

[Obliviax]

We have a good team but the schedule is extremely difficult. After Villanova the next easiest game might be Indiana and they hung tough with a top 10 team on Saturday.

I think a one loss team will win the east this year and it will come down to head to head tiebreaker. Could this be the year when UM and PSU both beat OSU?

I've been impressed with MD this year but played a poor game Saturday. They beat Illinois by 3 and Ill is the worst in the East. Tags had 350 yards passing for them and looks great. But if you keep them in front of you and not give up the big TD's they are very beatable. So we go like this:

• Villa
• Indy
• @Iowa
• Illinois
• @ tOSU
• @ MD
• Michigan
• Rutgers
• @MSU

The good news is that we don't really have any back to back teeth rattlers. On paper, the red games are the hard ones. tOSU didn't play well last weekend or the weekend before and are not your father's tOSU unless they figure something out. UM hasn't played anyone. Iowa and MSU look to be tough, physical games. I am hoping someone figures out MSU before we play them.

 

[bdgan]

I've been impressed with MD this year but played a poor game Saturday. They beat Illinois by 3 and Ill is the worst in the East. Tags had 350 yards passing for them and looks great. But if you keep them in front of you and not give up the big TD's they are very beatable. So we go like this:

• Villa
• Indy
• @Iowa
• Illinois
• @ tOSU
• @ MD
• Michigan
• Rutgers
• @MSU

The good news is that we don't really have any back to back teeth rattlers. On paper, the red games are the hard ones. tOSU didn't play well last weekend or the weekend before and are not your father's tOSU unless they figure something out. UM hasn't played anyone. Iowa and MSU look to be tough, physical games. I am hoping someone figures out MSU before we play them.

3 of those red games are on the road.

I predict 10-2 but you never know. 11-1 and a BiG East title is possible if we can figure out how to run the ball. Missing two 4th and 1 plays and struggling inside the 5 yd line is concerning.

 

[psupride1997]

Walker from MSU is the best RB in the country, hands down. He is gonna be a problem.

 

[Obliviax]

Walker from MSU is the best RB in the country, hands down. He is gonna be a problem.

Well, MSU beat NW who now looks to be the worst NW teams we've seen in years (lost to both Sparty and Duke so far). They also beat Miami who got throttled by Alabama (who almost got beat by FL Saturday) and barely beat App State. So, while I like MSU, I am still not sold on them being that great. Lots of time for them to implode between now and the last game of the year. Iowa beat Indian who imploded after throwing TWO pick sixs to the same guy. And then beat Iowa state (who struggled in their other game against N Iowa.

So when you look at SOS, not only has PSU had a tougher schedule, we've played two teams better than their best wins so far.

 

[wolve1972]

I think both Michigan schools are going to be tough wins.
Not sure that anyone runs the table in the big 10 this year.

Winner of the B1G East will have 2 losses. It might come down to a head-to-head tie breaker for who gets to play in the B1G championship. game The East champion beats the West (of course) in the B1G championship but because of 2 or more losses, the B1G champ gets shut out of the playoffs

 

[Obliviax]

Winner of the B1G East will have 2 losses. It might come down to a head-to-head tie breaker for who gets to play in the B1G championship. game The East champion beats the West (of course) in the B1G championship but because of 2 or more losses, the B1G champ gets shut out of the playoffs

The only teams to have lost in the B1G East are Indiana (2) and tOSU.

 

[wolve1972]

The only teams to have lost in the B1G East are Indiana (2) and tOSU.

Might not have been clear, but I'm actually predicting 2 conference losses for the East winner. That probably sounds crazy but I really believe it's that balanced - especially with OSU's crappy defense

 

[PennsylvaniaPride]

Michigan has played nobody. Washington really stinks this year. They lost to Montana in their opener. They have good athletes but haven't seemed to gel under Harbaugh. But it is UM and they will play us tough. Sparty looks like a good physical team. They have a lot of portal transfers playing. I feel like they've snuck up on teams. They took Miami behind the woodshed and just physically pounded them. I feel like both are in the Wisconsin/Auburn class: tough, physical teams that want to run the ball first and have decent QB's to compliment the run with the pass. On defense, they stuff the run and are stout.

Michigan has looked great to me. They can run the ball so well and they have a very fast back in Blake Corum. We are missing that, but it does look Lovett has some explosiveness.

Michigan's pass game has been suspect though. Especially against Washington.

MSU has looked great.

Both will be tough games for PSU.

 

[McCloudersportLion]

Mel Tucker is taking a page from the Duffy Daugherty play book and bringing in guys that can't/won't be able to play for other programs.

You are out of your element, but it is true that the whole state of Michigan doesnt have a runningback that wants to wand duel with Joey Potter Jr THIS SEASHON

 

[Wallace Breen]

The East is a beast this year. Three games in and Michigan State has looked like the most impressive team in the Big Ten. But, the competition is suspect. Northwestern is bad. Miami might be but they may not either. Right now, Michigan State has the best running back and receiver in the Big Ten and a top four QB. Michigan's defense is the best in the Big Ten right now but they played NIU, a John Donovan coached offense and an under-rated Western Michigan team. They run because they can and because they don't have to pass. Eventually that will change. Bottom line, we don't know how good either team is. Same with our team. We know what we did against the schedule we played but we don't know how good any of them actually are, especially given the cluster that was college football 2020.

Embrace the uncertainty. Things will change rapidly and from week to week.

 

[lazydave841]

Let's reassess these teams on Nov 1.

Michigan plays Rutgers, Wisconsin, Nebraska, NW, and Sparty.

Rutgers plays Michigan, OSU, Sparty (friggin yikes), NW, and Illinois.

Sparty plays Neb, Western KY, Rutgers, Indiana, and Michigan (bye week before this game)

Most likely: Rutgers drops 3 in a row.

Possibility: Sparty comes into the Michigan game undefeated and with a weeks rest.

Unlikely but: Michigan and Sparty come into their game undefeated, setting up a top 12 (or better) matchup.

 

[Obliviax]

 

[gr82baspartan]

Thanks for the post.(psuro)

A good book to Reference/ Read: " Raye of Light." Jimmy Raye, Duffy Daugherty.
Duffy a Pennsylvania lad: Emeigh Pa.
Written by Tom Shanahan, Forward by. Tony Dungy.( Available Amazon- Kindle)

" The Integration of College football and the 1965-66 MSU Spartans."

For me: MSU 1963-69. Had to work to pay tuition. Full load cost $80/term.😅😅
Watched freshmen football class practice all the time. That class included
Bubba and G Webster, two future SI All Century 1st Defensive starters.
Had fun playing I M BBall against Bubba, now and then. At 6'7" , 275 tough
To keep him out of the paint.
:65 Train and Hitch hike to Happy Valley and back to watch us play PSU.
Then a numb post game feeling after watching the ND 10-10 Tie.
Tough Round trip bus rides to L A and back to watch us lose 14-12 to UCLA
In the Rose Bowl.
And, nice that during my collegiate days: Couple of NC's.

Great memories of my MSU days, as I know you've all had over the years as PSU graduates and fans.

Go State's, and

,,,cheers.

 

[Cosmos]

Mel Tucker is taking a page from the Duffy Daugherty play book and bringing in guys that can't/won't be able to play for other programs.

Speaking of Duffy, he's a distant relative of mine. Never met him but everything you say is true. For those too young to remember Jackie Sherril could've been Duffy's protege. Still too far back? That Illinois coach who came on campus to try to poach our recruits in 2012. I forget his name (Becket or something) but he didn't last long trying to turn Illini into a runway program. You get the idea.

But their QBs are game managers and not asked to do A LOT. If we play solid defense, with a turnover or two, our offense is diverse and explosive enough that the opposition won't be able to keep up.

Exactly! I can guarantee one thing. Every team who plays us is worried right now.

After Villanova the next easiest game might be Indiana and they hung tough with a top 10 team on Saturday.

I think a one loss team will win the east this year and it will come down to head to head tiebreaker. Could this be the year when UM and PSU both beat OSU?

Yeah but Cincy is overrated. That said, IU sets up to be a trap game. But we should handle them.

Could very well be among UM, OSU and us.

Duffy Daugherty was the MSU coach in the 1960s - he pulled a lot of black kids from the south to play at MSU because they couldn't/wouldn't play at the local southern schools. That is the correlation I made with what Mel Tucker is doing with the portal - he is taking in kids that can't/won't play at other schools and giving them an opportunity.

Reminds me of a story. It's circa 1978. I had a Duffy Daugherty MSU National Championship glass. One day I decide to use it as a growler during a neighborhood gathering/fish fry. So I fill it up with beer. I'm sitting at a table and here comes my neighbor who's a ND grad. He sits down, spies my glass and has a fit! He pops off about how the only reason Duffy won back-to-back in '65 and '66 is because he had blacks. I was taken aback. You had to be there. It was priceless.

Anyway and to your point, Sparty is a bunch of mercenaries. Miami is a dumpster fire so don't hang your hat too much on that win. CJF was selective using the portal. Why. Because he didn't want to change the character of the team. We'll see if Sparty has character when the going gets tough. As Mike Tyson said, "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." And thus far we've been punched in the mouth twice.

Iowa and MSU look to be tough, physical games. I am hoping someone figures out MSU before we play them.

Iowa is well coached but IMO they can't play with us in space. If we played Sparty earlier in the season then I'd be a little worried.

1-1 and a BiG East title is possible if we can figure out how to run the ball. Missing two 4th and 1 plays and struggling inside the 5 yd line is concerning.

Teams stack the box and dare SC to throw. That will stop soon and should open up the running game even on short yardage plays.

Walker from MSU is the best RB in the country, hands down. He is gonna be a problem.

I heard Walker went to the head coach after the Miami game and thanked him for "giving him a chance." I say no more.

Sparty plays Neb, Western KY, Rutgers, Indiana, and Michigan (bye week before this game)

I've watched Neb play twice, against Illini and OU. Mark it down. They beat Sparty.

 

[PSUSignore]

The BiG conference alignment is ridiculous with OSU, PSU, UM, and MSU in the same division. Maryland (3-0), Rutgers (3-0), and Indiana are competitive.

Right now the East is 18-3 (0.857) while the West is 12-10 (0.545) so it appears more imbalanced than usual. But I've been reminding myself it's still very early. Many times the perspective on teams changes dramatically once we get deeper into conference play.

 

[lazydave841]

Right now the East is 18-3 (0.857) while the West is 12-10 (0.545) so it appears more imbalanced that usual. But I've been reminding myself it's still very early. Many times the perspective on teams changes dramatically once we get deeper into conference play.

The East will 50/50 itself along the way, but the ooc is a key metric.

And this is with an OSU loss to Oregon.

We beat an SEC team, Iowa a Big 12, Michigan a Pac 12, Sparty an ACC, Minnesota a Pac 12.

 

[Obliviax]

The East will 50/50 itself along the way, but the ooc is a key metric.

And this is with an OSU loss to Oregon.

We beat an SEC team, Iowa a Big 12, Michigan a Pac 12, Sparty an ACC, Minnesota a Pac 12.

totally agree. Michigan played a very crappy Washington team. I am not sold on Miami and Iowa State being good teams yet. We have played, by far, the most challenging schedule in the B1G .

 

[gr82baspartan]

Speaking of Duffy, he's a distant relative of mine. Never met him but everything you say is true. For those too young to remember Jackie Sherril could've been Duffy's protege. Still too far back? That Illinois coach who came on campus to try to poach our recruits in 2012. I forget his name (Becket or something) but he didn't last long trying to turn Illini into a runway program. You get the idea.


Exactly! I can guarantee one thing. Every team who plays us is worried right now.


Yeah but Cincy is overrated. That said, IU sets up to be a trap game. But we should handle them.

Could very well be among UM, OSU and us.


Reminds me of a story. It's circa 1978. I had a Duffy Daugherty MSU National Championship glass. One day I decide to use it as a growler during a neighborhood gathering/fish fry. So I fill it up with beer. I'm sitting at a table and here comes my neighbor who's a ND grad. He sits down, spies my glass and has a fit! He pops off about how the only reason Duffy won back-to-back in '65 and '66 is because he had blacks. I was taken aback. You had to be there. It was priceless.

Anyway and to your point, Sparty is a bunch of mercenaries. Miami is a dumpster fire so don't hang your hat too much on that win. CJF was selective using the portal. Why. Because he didn't want to change the character of the team. We'll see if Sparty has character when the going gets tough. As Mike Tyson said, "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." And thus far we've been punched in the mouth twice.


Iowa is well coached but IMO they can't play with us in space. If we played Sparty earlier in the season then I'd be a little worried.


Teams stack the box and dare SC to throw. That will stop soon and should open up the running game even on short yardage plays.


I heard Walker went to the head coach after the Miami game and thanked him for "giving him a chance." I say no more.



I've watched Neb play twice, against Illini and OU. Mark it down. They beat Sparty.

So, whatever happened to your Duffy beer glass?/Growler //ND neighbor?🤔

,,,cheers

 

[lazydave841]

totally agree. Michigan played a very crappy Washington team. I am not sold on Miami and Iowa State being good teams yet. We have played, by far, the most challenging schedule in the B1G .

Michigan looks a lot like Auburn did coming into the White Out right now, but with a slightly better schedule (Washington is at least P5, regardless of their skill level). If they beat Wisconsin, it will mean they either successfully pounded the ball on them or got enough passing plays going and fixed their defensive issues of letting Wisky plow them like a cheap whore.

 

[wilbury]

Walker from MSU is the best RB in the country, hands down. He is gonna be a problem.

Not only isn't he the best RB in the country, he isn't even as good as the guy we just played - Tank Digsby.

 

[auxgym]

Mel Tucker is taking a page from the Duffy Daugherty play book and bringing in guys that can't/won't be able to play for other programs.

LOL That's hilarious......you could say that about every football team MSU ever had.

 

[psuro]

LOL That's hilarious......you could say that about every football team MSU ever had.

Really? I don't follow MSU, so perhaps you know better.

Duffy Daugherty created a cottage industry of taking black kids from the south and giving them a chance to play at MSU. Won a couple of NCs that way.

 

[wolve1972]

Walker from MSU is the best RB in the country, hands down. He is gonna be a problem.

He's very good but have you watched the true FR RB Henderson from OSU ? He's just now getting a bunch of touches and looks like a threat to take it to the house every time he touches the ball.

Of course, on the other side of the ball, the same can be said against the OSU defense. Man, they suck

 

[BobPSU92]

F*ck ‘em both.

 

[PSU20]

Michigan St. should win their next 4-5 games, cake schedule for them.

 

[PSU20]

And, they have a couple of 6th year 24 yo on their roster. Big difference going up against 18-19 yo.

 

[Option Bob]

Really? I don't follow MSU, so perhaps you know better.

Duffy Daugherty created a cottage industry of taking black kids from the south and giving them a chance to play at MSU. Won a couple of NCs that way.

If you are referring to those Bubba Smith/George Webster teams in 1965-66 (when, of course, Penn State had to play them), the Spartans finished #2 in the AP Poll both years.

In fact, I think UCLA defeated MSU in the Rose Bowl after the 1965 season, led by QB Gary Beban. Penn State had to play them both in 1966 and got soundly trounced by both teams.

Ironically, JoePa's first season as HC had him playing what might have been 3 of the respective teams' greatest squads: MSU, UCLA, and Ga Tech (ranked #5 when it routed PSU).

 

[PearlSUJam]

How good are these teams this year?

Michigan beat 2 patsies but also beat Washington handily (343 rushing yards).

I didn't expect much from Michigan State this year but they rebuilt their team in the portal. They beat Northwestern and Miami while averaging 500 yds on offense.

The BiG conference alignment is ridiculous with OSU, PSU, UM, and MSU in the same division. Maryland (3-0), Rutgers (3-0), and Indiana are competitive.

Add the top two teams from the west (Iowa & Wisconsin) and Auburn. This could be one of the most difficult schedules ever.

 

[map-#1]

He's very good but have you watched the true FR RB Henderson from OSU ? He's just now getting a bunch of touches and looks like a threat to take it to the house every time he touches the ball.

Of course, on the other side of the ball, the same can be said against the OSU defense. Man, they suck

OSU is the 2nd youngest team in CFP. If the D gels and it’s not out of the question, beating them will not be easy. Henderson is a phenom and 4 deep in RB. OSU Will be favored in all remaining games. Day has not lost a B1G yet.

 

[wolve1972]

OSU is the 2nd youngest team in CFP. If the D gels and it’s not out of the question, beating them will not be easy. Henderson is a phenom and 4 deep in RB. OSU Will be favored in all remaining games. Day has not lost a B1G yet.

I agree they have a boatload of talent but the key - as you mentioned - is getting "the D to gel." I'm on the OSU boards a ton (banned from Eleven Warriors) and don't understand what's going on with players like Tyreke Smith and Zach Harrison who have been extremely quiet this year. Big things were predicted - especially for Harrison