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Ut Oh….

WOW. Last Evening I posted an update on the lack of anything new re: Desanto. I expected that someone might add new info or many would realize that the "offense" was probably on the lower end of severity scale. INSTEAD......we got angry relitigating of every offense in the last decade filled with venom and insults. I feel like the guy who opened the first door at Walmart on Black Friday :) Happy Holidays!
 
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johnstownsteel said:
Yes. I’d say the fact that we talked at length about Austin when he tried to take out an opponent with a kimura when at Drexel confirms that. I’ll also note we talk about knuckleheads no matter where they are at or how they affect the team race. I’ll use PD3 as my example to back that one up. But if some of you want to insinuate we only care about these type of things because their points may affect our chances at a championship then let me step aside and give you the floor..
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Chad Red pushups, anyone?

Speaking of Nebraska in that dual:

 
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johnstownsteel said:
Are you understanding how things work out there? Those wrestling outlets you mention are already fighting tooth and nail for access and information. They walk a fine line with these coaching staffs and programs on what they should report on and what to leave alone. Brands already keeps a tight ship when it comes to media, how do you think he will react to any that reports in things that will make him, his brother and his wrestlers look bad?

You are dumb if you don’t think something happened at that tournament. To what degree is the question. Those caught mentioning it in background of the video didn’t just make it up. I suspect you know that yourself and just trolling but could be completely wrong there. Maybe you are just dumb….
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Exactly, it isn't like the parties clearly heard describing what they're seeing are just anybody - they're the mat announcers on the mat directly opposite the mat that AD v CS just finished on... and they are looking directly at what is taking place (which is off the video as the video is focusing on the mat they are covering). They can be heard making clear reference to the Desanto - Schriever match just after it ends, first saying that "they're both Iowa guys" and that "Desanto won 8-4"... then they make reference that something is going on directly after the match and say Desanto is "starring someone down".... then they say Desanto is "freaking out".... and then identify the party Desanto is "freaking out" on as "his opponent's parents".... and also say that Brands has come over and "grabbed him by the neck". Given the audio that can be heard from the mat announcers on the direct opposite mat who are looking directly at situation (which is very clear from what can be heard on the audio portion of the video), it's rather absurd to essentially say that these mat announcers just made this up despite nothing really going on - just as you say.
 
From my perspective, Desanto’s behavior is escalating. To me it is one thing to do something in a match, or even after a match, to your opponent. Whether it is an extra shove, some jawing, taunting, etc.

However, the latest two incidents involve a member of the media or NCAA tournament worker, can’t remember the specifics, and now a fan. To me that is a bit concerning and I think there hasn’t been enough done to reign in that behavior.

I dont think anything that has been done to date would warrant being booted from the team, but at minimum there should be a suspension here. Regardless of what was said, from all accounts Desanto entered the stands and confronted a fan. That is a recipe for disaster. No way should an athlete at any level ever do that.
 
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El-Jefe said:
Chad Red pushups, anyone?

Speaking of Nebraska in that dual:

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slushhead said:
My cynical answer is that the coach cuts the cord when a viable alternative for scoring those points becomes available. Until then, window dressing. You know, “punishments” like saying you’re sorry (kindergarten), sitting out award ceremonies (I think we did that in elementary school), suspension from November duals against teams where your points will mean nothing to the outcome (this happened to us on my HS team whenever we shot people with a firearm), and the most feared of all — temporary permanent suspension (only for the big boys who could read between the lines).

But seriously, I do not know for a fact what was said at NCAAs or at Luther, and I do not know for a fact just how threatened either recipient felt (whether verbally, by body language, or by a coach’s response). However, I will say that if kids were present and there was potential for them to come away from the event with a bad experience, someone at a higher level than TnT needs to intervene and bring some actual discipline.

I’ve seen several people across a couple of boards attest to knowing ADS personally and claim that his poor behavior occurs only while he is on the mat. Well, that would seem to imply a simple solution, wouldn’t it?

But points.

Ultimately, though, I’m guessing nothing substantive will happen until there is a physical altercation. Can only hope that doesn’t happen.
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I don't have a problem with Iowa doing nothing - they're desperate for the points and have "win at all costs" mentality (that seems pretty obvious to anyone who's been watching this saga). What I don't get is the hypocritical bullshit about having a "zero-tolerance policy" when they first brought AD on - seems pretty clear that it was all just a smokescreen designed to protect Iowa's image while bringing on a much needed mercenary that they might not otherwise do (i.e., desperate times call for desperate measures").
 
crablegs1 said:
From my perspective, Desanto’s behavior is escalating. To me it is one thing to do something in a match, or even after a match, to your opponent. Whether it is an extra shove, some jawing, taunting, etc.

However, the latest two incidents involve a member of the media or NCAA tournament worker, can’t remember the specifics, and now a fan. To me that is a bit concerning and I think there hasn’t been enough done to reign in that behavior.

I dont think anything that has been done to date would warrant being booted from the team, but at minimum there should be a suspension here. Regardless of what was said, from all accounts Desanto entered the stands and confronted a fan. That is a recipe for disaster. No way should an athlete at any level ever do that.
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At the venue in question, there really weren't "stands" - or not in the area of the mat AD and CS wrestled on. The fans are standing around the mat on the video that was shown. But apparently he walked up to where the fans were standing and started interacting with CS's parents (or "freaking out" on them as the mat announcers from the opposite mat described it).
 
ss7 said:
I keep coming back to the fact that for all the discussion about DeSanto, we have very little actual information on these "topics", whether it's the speculative, pseudo medical diagnoses or the specifics of the interactions that are deemed so problematic.

I think it's fair to note/suspect that the concern over the behavior is directly related to the possibility/likelihood of points being the difference in the team race.
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I believe we all agree on this? Or is something flying over my head again?

I would just make one clarification — the degree of concern (or interest), not just concern/interest itself. As @johnstownsteel noted, we often comment on bad behavior wherever it happens in the sport, regardless of team or wrestler.

It’s news. Humans discuss news, and it seems logical to me that the news most pertinent to a common interest is what gets discussed most.
 
I don't have a problem with Iowa doing nothing. But I'll write dozens of posts bitching about Iowa doing nothing. Irony=Priceless :)
 
Lion8286 said:
How many posts do you have in this thread??
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I have faith that you can count them yourself.......although you might have to take off your shoes :)
FYI: The number of my posts complaining about Iowa doing nothing is Zero
 
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johnstownsteel said:
… But if some of you want to insinuate we only care about these type of things because their points may affect our chances at a championship then let me step aside and give you the floor..
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Hmm. The “cynical” approach of mind-reading a motive and/or psychoanalysing was started by others, not me.

My basic feeling is that I strongly dislike ascribing motivations to specific people. (But I suppose it is necessary/appropriate sometimes.) Too-frequent, self-permitted mind-reading of motives (which causes and is caused by demonizing and tribalism) is what is killing our country and killing our democracy.
 
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And if we do want to ascribe motivations, then I’m working out how to cynically ascribe motivations to Brands and not to you highly persistent complainers.

Maybe the best question to ask in the mind-reading inquiry is whether, if a misbehaving DeSanto were the best Hawkeye available, and if DeSanto were a less-than-mediocre wrestler, would Tom Brands still put up with him and start him? I don’t know the answer. Tom Brands seems to be a loyal and caring guy. He might stand behind and help even a bad wrestler of his, in my estimation.
 
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You guys sure seem awfully worried about DeSanto yet again. Even got a Cyclone fan worked up here. So predictable
 
Lion8286 said:
How many years has HR been worrying about Cael?? Seems like at least a decade.
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That's what you change the subject to? Here watch this. How many years has BWI been worried about Brands/Iowa/HR? Seems like atleast a decade. I mean half the threads here end up being about Iowa. Am I wrong? See how I did that Lion8286?

Many PSU fans and Iowa fans react and behave the same way. I see it everyday on the boards
 
Dogwelder said:
Hmm. The “cynical” approach of mind-reading a motive and/or psychoanalysing was started by others, not me.

My basic feeling is that I strongly dislike ascribing motivations to specific people. (But I suppose it is necessary/appropriate sometimes.) Self-permitted mind-reading of motives (which leads to demonizing and tribalism) is what is killing our country and killing our democracy.
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It sounds like you dislike cynicism, and that’s ok. I’ve been involved in sports enough and seen enough of a pattern under the TnT helm to also be ok with my comments. And none of that precludes Tom from being a loyal and caring guy. He can be those things and not excel at implementing appropriate discipline.
 
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WildTurk said:
That's what you change the subject to? Here watch this. How many years has BWI been worried about Brands/Iowa/HR? Seems like atleast a decade. I mean half the threads here end up being about Iowa. Am I wrong? See how I did that Lion8286?

Many PSU fans and Iowa fans react and behave the same way. I see it everyday on the boards
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Exactly.

Some people even go on other teams' message boards and pretend to be concerned that guys can't train properly because they're being recruited over.

I mean...can you imagine someone being so obvious in their insincere concern?
 
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WildTurk said:
That's what you change the subject to? Here watch this. How many years has BWI been worried about Brands/Iowa/HR? Seems like atleast a decade. I mean half the threads here end up being about Iowa. Am I wrong? See how I did that Lion8286?

Many PSU fans and Iowa fans react and behave the same way. I see it everyday on the boards
Click to expand...

I didn't change the subject. I asked a question.

If Iowa fans react the same way, why aren't you over on HR criticizing them?? You seem to limit your criticism to Penn State fans.
 
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crablegs1 said:
From my perspective, Desanto’s behavior is escalating. To me it is one thing to do something in a match, or even after a match, to your opponent. Whether it is an extra shove, some jawing, taunting, etc.

However, the latest two incidents involve a member of the media or NCAA tournament worker, can’t remember the specifics, and now a fan. To me that is a bit concerning and I think there hasn’t been enough done to reign in that behavior.

I dont think anything that has been done to date would warrant being booted from the team, but at minimum there should be a suspension here. Regardless of what was said, from all accounts Desanto entered the stands and confronted a fan. That is a recipe for disaster. No way should an athlete at any level ever do that.
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All accounts say DeSanto entered the stands and had a confrontation there?
 
slushhead said:
Wasn’t aware I was complaining as much as fooling around, but . . . would it not be logical for discussion to focus most on wrestlers and teams that factor into the national championship equation? Especially those that are rivals?
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What's really funny in a non funny way is that hr homers went off on desanto when he pulled that shit with the arm at Nationals and then turn around and pretend that shit isn't still happening now. The kid is a liability and nobody gets a break from that shit because they are on or off the spectrum or who they wrestle for. I worked in the prison system for a long time there's a lot of people on the spectrum that end up incarcerated due to explosive behavior. If he wasn't a wrestler last year when he threatened that lady at Nationals what would have happened. At the very least he gets a serious fine and probation
 
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ss7 said:
Exactly.

Some people even go on other teams' message boards and pretend to be concerned that guys can't train properly because they're being recruited over.

I mean...can you imagine someone being so obvious in their insincere concern?
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Who said I was concerned? I was pointing out what he may be worried about as he is training to be "the guy" at 125. Simple as that
 
WildTurk said:
All accounts say DeSanto entered the stands and had a confrontation there?
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Yes. Are you disputing that he confronted a fan, where the fans were at? Or are you trying to be obtuse with whether or not there were physical “stands” in the venue?
 
johnstownsteel said:
Yes. I’d say the fact that we talked at length about Austin when he tried to take out an opponent with a kimura when at Drexel confirms that. I’ll also note we talk about knuckleheads no matter where they are at or how they affect the team race. I’ll use PD3 as my example to back that one up. But if some of you want to insinuate we only care about these type of things because their points may affect our chances at a championship then let me step aside and give you the floor..
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And Austin attempted to injure Chaz Tucker at the end of the match in which Tucker beat Austin.
 
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WildTurk said:
You guys sure seem awfully worried about DeSanto yet again. Even got a Cyclone fan worked up here. So predictable
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I don't see anyone worrying about desanto. It's the worrying about the stupidity of those involved in babysitting him that I see on here or the lack of concern some Iowa fans have that desanto might hurt someone. Lol. Of course I have watched the brands long enough to know those mat monkeys are incapable of babysitting anyone let alone themselves lmfao
 
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slushhead said:
It sounds like you dislike cynicism, and that’s ok. I’ve been involved in sports enough and seen enough of a pattern under the TnT helm to also be ok with my comments. And none of that precludes Tom from being a loyal and caring guy. He can be those things and not excel at implementing appropriate discipline.
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Maybe Tom is doing the best he can with the hand he was dealt. I bet I could pick apart the way you discipline vs the way i do. And vice versa. We all are imperfect kids raising kids.
 
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Lion8286 said:
I didn't change the subject. I asked a question.

If Iowa fans react the same way, why aren't you over on HR criticizing them?? You seem to limit your criticism to Penn State fans.
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You seem to limit your criticism to Iowa fans.
I've called out Iowa fans many times on many subjects. Pay attention if you are so concerned about me
 
WildTurk said:
You seem to limit your criticism to Iowa fans.
I've called out Iowa fans many times on many subjects. Pay attention if you are so concerned about me
Click to expand...

Point me to the posts on HR of you calling out Iowa fans. I'll wait.
 
crablegs1 said:
Yes. Are you disputing that he confronted a fan, where the fans were at? Or are you trying to be obtuse with whether or not there were physical “stands” in the venue?
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Show me where ALL ACCOUNTS say he entered the stands and started a confrontation
 
crablegs1 said:
Yes. Are you disputing that he confronted a fan, where the fans were at? Or are you trying to be obtuse with whether or not there were physical “stands” in the venue?
Click to expand...

Yeah I thought the stalemates video gave a fair analysis.

Basically, it seems clear that there was some sort of commotion in the stands that involved DeSanto, someone in the stands, and Brands. What was said as well as the extent of Brands’ involvement seem to be the main things that we don’t really know.

 
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crablegs1 said:
From my perspective, Desanto’s behavior is escalating. To me it is one thing to do something in a match, or even after a match, to your opponent. Whether it is an extra shove, some jawing, taunting, etc.

However, the latest two incidents involve a member of the media or NCAA tournament worker, can’t remember the specifics, and now a fan. To me that is a bit concerning and I think there hasn’t been enough done to reign in that behavior.

I dont think anything that has been done to date would warrant being booted from the team, but at minimum there should be a suspension here. Regardless of what was said, from all accounts Desanto entered the stands and confronted a fan. That is a recipe for disaster. No way should an athlete at any level ever do that.
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Gotta agree here. I’m wondering if the NCAA has been involved at all. Hell, there might be an “entrepreneurial” dirt ball out there securing his tickets to Nationals as we speak. His only objective in attending is say something to Austin… maybe even his mother in hopes of Austin punching him. What a lawsuit that would be. And all an attorney would need to do is present evidence from all the wrestling forums of fans talking about the risks of him participating and the likelihood of bad things happening. Be something hearing an attorney asking someone from the NCAA how they couldn’t have known about the risks while every fan in country were aware of them. The NCAA probably doesn’t care much about the sport but they are concerned about the bottom line. Surprised somewhat they haven’t stepped in to protect themselves from a lawsuit. Of course I’m not an attorney. Maybe one can piece in and educate me on where they may stand on this.
 
Lion8286 said:
So it wasn't "the hand he was dealt" was it?
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Austin had well documented issues well before Tom and Terry got a chance to coach him. Yes they are doing the best they know how with the hand they were dealt. Coaching and mentoring Austin is a challenge they accepted, just like Cael tried to do.
 
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