This is why you are the laughingstock of college wrestling boards all across the country. A loss is a loss is a loss. It doesn't matter how it happened.
Vincenzo Joseph ( Penn State) toys with Kaleb Young (forget where he's going)
- Thread starter amalone
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This is why you are the laughingstock of college wrestling boards all across the country. A loss is a loss is a loss. It doesn't matter how it happened.
No... Kid... he doesn't have to explain that loss as Ed wasn't injured in that match. Ed's knee locked up in his 1st bout with NA and all 21Guns was saying was if Ed was healthy in that match, the result would have been different. Ed gets to the finals at the NCAA's the next year and trounces Amuchastegui 13-2, almost techs him and rides him for 3:39 seconds in a championship bout. Amuchastegui was thoroughly beaten to a pulp by Ed... for the reason he lost the 1st bout. Ed discussed as much after the beat down was over in his post bout interview.
The win by Amuchastegui... was due to injury and I know in my heart, Ed kicks his rear end 100 times out of 100 if not injured. 21Guns was merely adding a disclaimer and we should all know what he means.
Yeah but you don't know how the rest of that match goes. No one does. IMO this argument takes away from Amuchastegui's ability. It's the same argument as people saying he would've beaten Reader if he was healthy. No way anyone could prove that (the fan in me believe he could've pulled that off, but I could never prove it). I think it's foolish to just assume he would've won.
As always this is just my opinion
Ed kept looking into the stands at Robin Flicker with a huge smile on his face, and would just shake his head almost laughing while competing.
Since we are looking for rationalizations, I argue Ed was distracted by the clown in the corner. He did use it as a learning experience, seldom afterwards did Ed allow much of anything to distract him.
It is a dynasty. We hear every year how competitive OSU is going to be, how Ohio State has stockpiled elite talent and how tough Iowa is. None of that TALK... translates to a close NCAA tournament. Penn State beat it's closest rival by 25 and half pts. That's a beat down. Any team after that... got their asses handed to them.
Iowa lost by 42 fabulous pts to Penn State and isn't remotely tough, offensive or worth talking about come tournament and during tournament time. Iowa hasn't been tough for more years than most HR posters can count to, yet blow hards from the Iowa camp come back, year after year with we're going to be "extra" tough this year, (then mention all the Iowa recruits or Iowa saviors like Brody Grothus... who usually get trounced by Penn State recruits in high school as I prefaced the match with the Mark Hall vs Alex Marinelli & Cenzo vs Kaleb Young matches. College seems to easily repeat those results.
PENN STATE'S got a team of blue chip recruits and most knowledgeable PSU fans know what to expect coming into the season. I expect to beat Iowa year in year out.... handily. What has Iowa's finish the past four years been? A 5th last year, sprinkled in with some 4th's and 3rd's.
Penn State is just that top heavy and immensely talented. I have no problem recognizing their dominant wrestling prowess as did Wade Schalles who said that all other teams are basically fighting for 2nd with Penn State setting the bar way too high. Penn State will be favored to win a 6th title out of 7 years and win years beyond with Mark Hall on board... with Zain, Jason and Bo continuing to be wrecking balls. Massive wrecking balls continuing the Penn State way of scoring huge bonus pts along the way while actually making wrestling... a truly unrivaled and interesting sport.
I'm merely agreeing with what Wade Schalles was saying a few wks ago when he said most teams aren't loaded with pt scoring machines like Penn State. I don't apologize for that... I revel in it. Penn State beat Iowa by 42 pts without a heavy weight. Penn State trounced Iowa yet again, without a heavyweight. With three finalists who couldn't score a takedown. Please... it's laughable. As the years pile up and Penn State's titles pile up, the defensible has become the defenseless. It's getting ugly, has been ugly... it's the Iowa diehards who won't rationalize... it's not a rivalry. Penn State has true close rivals of as it relates to it's own talent level or the level of offensive talent it has. It's not even close with Iowa.
Read the following perspective from an Iowa writer. "It's Penn State's wrestling world, the Iowa Hawkeyes just live in it."
Read reality here:
http://www.thegazette.com/subject/s...tling-world-hawkeyes-just-live-in-it-20160319
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You're absolutely right! It's just that their period of lengthy greatness was before my time!
Correct me if I"m wrong, but my recollection of Ed's match with Amu, was that he was definitely losing when he got hurt. Amu was riding him tough and even got some back points I believe--before Ed was injured. Ed got great revenge in the next year's NCAA finals, but Amu was winning that match before Ed got hurt. At least that's the way I recall it.
Personal attacks that show more about him than it does of you. I respect your candor and respect your attitude towards those who don't get as much as you do and certainly seem as if they never will.
2-1 Ruth before initial stoppage
Edit: Ruth was looking good before the injury. Stuff happens...
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As I said, Ruth was on his way to winning the match. 3-2, 2-1, whatever.
No injury, no Amuchastegui win. That's a fact.
Allow me to add that Zain vs Port was a VERY VERY close match that could have gone either way.
Ruth lost because he couldn't stop the bow and arrow.
Frankly, this topic has never been about Ruth vs. Mooch -- it's about extrapolating all the way thru to Ruth beating Reader and being a 4x champ. Way past time to let that go.
Also, re an earlier post: Young Guns has a site in District 6. Strittmatter coaches at UPJ, which is within D6.
Frankly, this topic has never been about Ruth vs. Mooch -- it's about extrapolating all the way thru to Ruth beating Reader and being a 4x champ. Way past time to let that go.
Also, re an earlier post: Young Guns has a site in District 6. Strittmatter coaches at UPJ, which is within D6.
I'm not sure some people understand the difference between opinion and fact.
hmm was there saw it in person ,please explain that to me I thought for sure he lost big time.
Cenzo was behind Joe 4-2 before the fall and Joe was the one that initiated the move. Also Joe tore his knee on that first take down in the opening seconds by Cenzo. Joe won't be wrestling for a short time because of it. Just getting the facts straight
Showing flashes prior to why he pinned Jo Jo Smith and beat Anthony Valencia at the Junior Nationals in Freestyle.
Mark Hall much greater than Alex Marinelli.
Cenzo going to another level against college level competition in Jo Jo Smith and pinning him and beating Anthony Valencia. Cenzo has already easily handled Kaleb Young.
Iowa gets Spencer Lee... who is negated by Nick Suriano.
Wow... I can see where all the Iowa optimism comes from. I really can.
Reminds me of the Derek St. John, Mike Evans and Ethan Lofthouse years going against David Taylor, Matt Brown and Ed Ruth. We all know how that worked out.
And it's clear that Mark Hall is a David Taylor and Ed Ruth, combined clone. Cenzo Joseph is a DT clone and Nick Suriano is a Nico Megaludis clone, but stronger. I'll let anyone deduce the outcomes of the former Lions careers ( 6 National Champions between them) and where they see the trajectory of Penn State's incoming stud hammers.
I see the dynasty and El Jefe's World Domination schematic... completely on schedule. With or without Spencer Lee. Start etching the trophies...
I wonder what the Dynasty Wing would look like at the Penn State Hall of Fame? Would you include Cael Sanderson's Gold Medal from 2004 and Jake Varner's from 2012? A possible future medal from Frank Molinaro?
I just wondering what other Penn State wrestling room members are thinking??
I think Ruth-Amuch 1 gets people up in arms because back when it happened a lot of Hawk fans called Ruth a quitter. Truth be told they were annoyed that he came back to wrestle and take 3rd. After NCAAs, the coaches said his knee locked up in that match and he did have surgery in the post season. Considering how badly Ruth beat him in the finals the following year, I'm amazed that this match still gets this much mileage. Yes it's an official loss and yes Ruth's knee did in fact lock up.
I'd agree with you but Joe was about to get taken down when he attempted the throw...Plus, not smart to try and throw someone as solid as Cenzo.
The facts are... Joe got decked. That is an indisputable fact. The indisputable fact also was that he was never close to beating Jason Nolf though the few who are on your site, subjectively felt that personal fabrication was remotely true.
No, that's the Beca wrestling team, sitting behind the Lehigh bench with their district 11 trophies watching Penn State destroy Lehigh again.
Minn, Ed was ahead in the match when he got hurt. After the injury his knee locked up and he could not actually move. 9 out of 10 would have defaulted, he had no chance after that.
He would have won the match easily if not for the injury.
Yeah... those LOVELY Hawk fans wonder why there is such a lack of civility sometimes in our interactions.
These doosies:
1. Cael baled on Iowa. Cael screwed everyone associated to Iowa State, but he didn't screw his family or he's never screwed Penn State fans. That kind of logic gets real old real quick and as Chief has noted on HR.. makes Iowa fans look like unabated haters on a level unbeknownst to programs... uhhh.... not on the upswing... who were used to winning and winning big. Temper your expectations. If you can't score pts or a take down in a National final at three different weights, your 3 supposed best wrestlers, you'll be fighting for 5th on Saturday night.
2. Cael can't coach.
3. Penn State wrestling fans are a bunch of Johnny come later than them. So that makes you a wrestling newby in their advanced, stage of dementia.
4. Ed Ruth quit in his match with Amuchastegui... yet quit so much in his next match he beat Amuchastegui like he was standing still. Almost teched him in a National Final... 13-2 and rode him like a miniature pony to the tune of 3:39 seconds. When's the last time you remember someone getting teched in a National final. David Taylor possibly against Brandon Hatchett of Lehigh in the 2012 final. That final was as close as Nick Amuchastegui actually was to Ed Ruth.
5. Penn State will only get once in a generation wrestlers "once in a generation". David Taylor and Ed Ruth weren't exclusive talents. Zain Retherford, Jason Nolf and Bo Nickal are proving that and will have much to say about that in the coming years. Nick Suriano and Cenzo Joseph will have much to say about extending that legacy.
6. Penn State has a secret slush fund.
7. Willie is is recruiting for Penn State.
8. Cael brought in Andrew Long just to win a championship.
And Chief... this is why there is such a "sense of tension" between opposing fan bases. If you take the excellence of Cael and coaches and take such ridiculous pot shots at the program... we might truly respect more Iowa fans. I respect your wrestling acumen and your way of presenting it... but you're in the small minority, Big Guy. You're the only one. Until you built a viable team of 10, you're going to be the only one we respect. Tell WildDog... he didn't make the team.
Add your own. Until civility and saneness rule the day on HR.... You can all get a good Friday laugh. Cael will keep kicking your arse and making no apologies for doing so. I hope Iowa fans love the taste of crow. Year after year, after continuous year... Iowa fans are forced to eat it. Enjoy it.
http://www.thegazette.com/subject/s...tling-world-hawkeyes-just-live-in-it-20160319
The best thing about this Iowa Gazette writer is... he's a realist and painted a real picture. He could have named this article Cael is YOUR DADDY... put went a little short of naming it that... but his article tells you with cold hard facts about Iowa's current state of underachievement. I loved reading... It's Penn State's wrestling WORLD... Iowa is merely living in it. I have a man crush on the dude now.
Read the article from the GAZETTE WRITER in Iowa... He said he was going to name it the Colonel Klink and Sgt Shultz article as he said... "Iowa fans see nothing... and hear NOTHING... outside of Iowa wrestling. It's as old... as many of it's babbling participants.... while Cael stockpiles his legacy ie. another example... Frank Molinaro... and moves past the HR pettiness into continues a Gable like assent to greatness.
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Joe was almost up on Mark Hall as well but that bout didn't end well for him, either (12-0). So many young hammers out there.
So many young and unintimidated hammers... that when the hammer falls... the end is swift. It's what makes Penn State wrestling so... exciting.
And Kid... I respect your opinion as I know your a respectful poster.
The 2012 Finals was more indicative of Ed's ability to handle a very good wrestler. Ed was better than Nick Amuchastegui and 2012 was a very clear indicator of that. It stinks he lost to him in 2011 as Ed was headed for greatness and the sting of that loss was hard for Ed and Penn State fans.
Ed was on a mission and that mission was prevented by a locked knee that couldn't be "unlocked" until a Penn State trainer was able through manipulation to physically
unlock Ed Ruth's knee from a completely "locked in place" position. Ed Ruth couldn't bend his knee and that eventually required surgery in the off season.
The fact he came back and beat Chris Heinrich and destroyed Mack Lewnes again... showed Ed's guts... which he left on the mats in the Wells Fargo Center. End of story.
The "Johnny come lately" opinion is comical. I mean COMICAL. I grew up in a small town in the middle of Pennsylvania where at age 4 you are issued a singlet. Adults in our home town REGULARLY had wrestling club parties where at any time you might find a few "special guests" having a few down in the basement bars...people like Shorty Hitchcock, or the father of Jerry White, or Wade himself, or Al Fricke, or the Packers from BEA, or one of MANY district 6 legendary wrestlers who won state championships from Philipsburg Osceola, or Bald Eagle Nittany(now defunct), or State College, or Altoona, or Clearfield, or Huntingdon, and on and on and on...
Wrestling in Pennsylvania has been a generational staple passed down long before Dan Gable began his career in high school. Pennsylvania is the king of wrestling in this country, and no state is even in the conversation to challenge this state. And in Pennsylvania, the main school was always Penn State, although decades ago, this state ALSO had programs like Clarion, Edinboro, Bloomsburg, Wilkes college, Millersville, Lock Haven State(as it was known then), Shippensburg State, Lehigh, Penn, and MANY more.
It literally makes me laugh when ANY state claims Penn State, and Pennsylvania high school fans in general, are "johnny come lately".
Wrestling in Pennsylvania has been a generational staple passed down long before Dan Gable began his career in high school. Pennsylvania is the king of wrestling in this country, and no state is even in the conversation to challenge this state. And in Pennsylvania, the main school was always Penn State, although decades ago, this state ALSO had programs like Clarion, Edinboro, Bloomsburg, Wilkes college, Millersville, Lock Haven State(as it was known then), Shippensburg State, Lehigh, Penn, and MANY more.
It literally makes me laugh when ANY state claims Penn State, and Pennsylvania high school fans in general, are "johnny come lately".
Without a doubt, what pissed them off was Ed, coming back and recovering and toughing it out and hammering points on the board taking third and destroying Lewnes...yet again.
I literally could have written this word for word growing up. My wrestling coach taught from the doctrine of Shorty Hickcock and Wade Schalles. I literally had a greater connection to these two wrestling "gods" than any one person other than my father. We used to go to the wrestling tournament every year in Philipsburg Osceola and when you'd arrive, you'd catch the tail end of a basketball game as you entered the gym.. and there was crickets... but the next day you'd have standing room only crowds with people waiting out the door for a high school wrestling tournament the next day. People fighting to get in line to get in the door. Dads with towels wrapped around their hands adored more guys than I can remember. It was pandemonium. The decibel levels were unheard of... for a wrestling event. Second only to the volumes at Rec Hall during a big Penn State bout.
My parents sending me to UAA Junior Olympic Tournaments at 8 so I could get to go on to Millersville and meet Shorty Hitchcock. Winning there and getting the right to go to Regionals in Delaware and after winning there, getting the right to go to Des Moines, Iowa for Nationals. It was ingrained in every young Pennsylvania kid who wanted to worship their idols... who were wrestling studs. To be like Joey Wildasin, to be like a Jack Cuvo, to be like a Ty Moore, Teague Moore, TJ Jaworsky, and a Cary Kolat. I could go on and on.
We would love going to wrestling tournaments in Maryland and Virginia. We'd clean house. We used to laugh at the Virginia kids who had their state medals pinned to their wrestling warm ups. We'd regularly pin and wipe the mats clean with Virginia State Champs. One father tried to intimidate my dad at a tournament and my dad said... my son wasn't a state champ, but would beating one today and I went out and pinned the kid in the 1st period in the semi finals of a tournament in Maryland. It was laughable. Half our team would make the finals and bring home championship trophies or medals that we all stuffed in drawers because the only thing that mattered... was a PA State title. Nothing was harder or more revered. The talent level in PA was off the charts. Every kid was nails and would wrestle you incredibly hard for 6 minutes. The disparity at other state tournaments was like Spartan warriors fighting girl scout troops. I think we used to analogize to that after we pinned our way through tournaments and one of our team mates was named OW.
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I stand corrected, thanks for posting the video. Ed seems to have been injured twice in the match. The first stoppage seemed to have nothing to do with his knee--more like a concussion or something like that. I had forgotten about that. I was thinking of his knee injury which ended the match; he was getting dominated before it was evident that he had the knee injury. You're right, he wasn't the same wrestler after that initial injury, whatever it was.
