Which cfb coaches do you rate as better than CJF?
- Thread starter john4psu
- Start date
Saban and Swinney are the only two better than him....then there is a group that are in the same class as him (Day, Riley, Fisher, and maybe a couple more).
At this point, I would rank him #1 in the Big.
#1 in the Big Ten? That is laughable. Ryan Day is head and shoulders better than Franklin. Day has two Big Ten titles and elite recruiting classes, in just 2 seasons.
Day was born on third base and you’re giving him credit for hitting a triple. Let me know when Day wins at a school like Vandy or takes over a train wreck like Franklin did at PSU. He inherited Apple and you’re treating him like he’s Steve Jobs.
Are we counting the coaches here on bwi as well?
In your opinion, how many Big Ten titles and Top 5 recruiting classes will it take for Ryan Day to be a better coach than James Franklin? Penn State ain’t winning the Big Ten title in 2021 unless the team improves significantly this offseason and benefits from the transfer portal.
Are we allowed to include offensive/defensive coordinators , position coaches, grad assistants, equipment managers, and all Rivals posters ? If so, we are going to be here a while. /s
Acknowledging that there may be lesser heralded guys at lesser programs who are better pure coaches (I'm thinking about guys like David Shaw or Pat Fitzgerald) but lack the resources or face recruiting constraints, here is my list:
1. Saban
2. Dabo
3. Kirby Smart
4. Brian Kelly
5. Lincoln Riley
6. Ryan Day
7. Mack Brown
8. Jimbo Fisher
9. Dan Mullen
10. Paul Chryst or James Franklin
Mario Cristobal is one of the up-and-comers, along with Matt Campbell. They're probably on that next tier, along with guys like David Shaw, Fitz, Ferentz, and Fickell.
1. Saban
2. Dabo
3. Kirby Smart
4. Brian Kelly
5. Lincoln Riley
6. Ryan Day
7. Mack Brown
8. Jimbo Fisher
9. Dan Mullen
10. Paul Chryst or James Franklin
Mario Cristobal is one of the up-and-comers, along with Matt Campbell. They're probably on that next tier, along with guys like David Shaw, Fitz, Ferentz, and Fickell.
Taking over and winning at OSU doesn’t take a great coach....it just takes one who’s not terrible. Everything needed to win was in place, all he has to do is keep it from derailing. If Day wins a couple of NC’s, then I might see him as a great coach....until then, he’s wealthy because he inherited it from dad.
Top 10, I am not so high on 7,8, Chryst ahead of James. None of these guys are realistically in play to replace CJF. In the add on list , I like Mario, Matt, Shaw, Fitz, and Fickell. Other than Fickell, and maybe Campbell , IDK who else is going to move to another job barring a firing or in house incident. We would probably have to be lucky an hit on a top coordinator that can transition to a HC. Who knows who that will be ? I suggested Kirby as a PSU coach on BWI, prior to CJF hire. Man that couldn't have gotten beaten down fast enough.
He has definitely accomplished a more impressive feat than Riley and Day, that's for sure.
Doing what he did at Vandy, and then making PSU a consistent NY6 contender so soon after sanctions? Certainly that's something Riley or Day can't say.
So, if the question were phrased as "who has done the most impressive job at their school?", I'd have Franklin higher. Even though he was handed the keys to a Ferrari, I think Ryan Day will be a star -- he's recruiting at a ridiculous level, and he's a really sharp offensive mind. I guess we'll see if/when he drops off. Same with Riley -- he inherited the world, but he knows QBs and offense. I don't see OU or OSU dropping off anytime soon.
We'll see, though.
So let’s try to reconcile something here...why did all of those other Top 10 coaches put together Top 10/15 teams this season, but James Franklin could not put together a winning season with a lot of returning talent? All 4 of our wins this season were against bottom of the barrel Big Ten teams who did not have a winning record.
Why did Apple and Coca Cola have such crappy years this year and other companies did not? Is it because those two are bad companies or have bad CEO’s? It’s because some companies handled the pandemic better than others. And the same can be said for football programs. So you can say Franklin is a bad pandemic coach and I’ll give you that...same as Harbaugh and some others. But some handled it better...do you really think Northwestern was a Big 10 championship caliber team after going 3-9 last year? And how many players did those other coaches lose prior to the start of the season? How many lost their number one running back forever? Who knows the impact that had on the team...that’s a huge blow. Then they lost their number two RB in the first series of the first game. Not too many of those coaches could have overcome that. Judging any coach based on this year is very shortsighted.
Problem list includes : 1. New OC
2. New OL coach
3. loss of the captain of the defense unexpectedly and suddenly
4. loss of JB, and Cain, w/the new guys needing more time to learn the offense specifically the passing game.
5. Needed more practices , spring. ball, and a soft early schedule for 1, and 2 to gel with their players
6. speculation - the COVID restrictions in PA seemed stiffer than most places, possibly affecting the face2face time of the team. . CJF may have been more strict in keeping social distancing. Our positive numbers seemed to be lower than most other BIG teams. CJF morale may have been negatively impacted by having his family in Fl, and his daughter being a high risk in the pandemic. False positives interrupting game preparation throughout the season.
7. a young team that didn't respond well to the stop start nature of this season.
2. New OL coach
3. loss of the captain of the defense unexpectedly and suddenly
4. loss of JB, and Cain, w/the new guys needing more time to learn the offense specifically the passing game.
5. Needed more practices , spring. ball, and a soft early schedule for 1, and 2 to gel with their players
6. speculation - the COVID restrictions in PA seemed stiffer than most places, possibly affecting the face2face time of the team. . CJF may have been more strict in keeping social distancing. Our positive numbers seemed to be lower than most other BIG teams. CJF morale may have been negatively impacted by having his family in Fl, and his daughter being a high risk in the pandemic. False positives interrupting game preparation throughout the season.
7. a young team that didn't respond well to the stop start nature of this season.
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Considering he got outcoached by Tom Allen in the first game this year, #1 isn't possible.
I think he's a great man, a great mentor, a very good recruiter, but he's not a very good game coach.
I agree with what you said and I would also say that he is not a good leader since he handled the impact of the pandemic so poorly compared to the other Top 10/15 best coaches in the country.
You are asking fanboys who never played JV sports to rate division one coaches. LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
You could fit the collective football knowledge from those who post here in a phone booth and have room left over for all their friends. Two or three years ago they wanted Jeff Brohm. Now they love Ryan Day......LOL 2 year wonder boy who inherited Urban's talent and program.
Oh good lord...if losing one game makes someone not a great game day coach then there aren’t any great coaches. How did Tom Allen do the previous years against him? Oh wait, Franklin suddenly forgot how to coach. I guess Jeff Brohm is a better coach than Urban Meyer because he out coached him once....think before you post.
He ranks in at 6 million per year. But, he can't coach. PSU just felt like he was a nice guy and they wanted to keep him from being unemployed.
Sound points, but I have a hard time that CJF did not have the team prepared to play the first 5 games Yes, they lost some key players, Corony threw everything into a crap show, Big Ten leadership mishandled the situation from the start, new coaches in key areas, and the lack of spring ball, but they played soft and the overall game planning was horrific the first 5 games and continued with the QB switch-a-ro throughout the season is baffling. That’s on CJF shoulders.
CJF is the right coach for PSU right now and I hope he is here for a long time and has success. The next two years of recruiting and wins will be telling If he is a good coach or great coach. Just my opinion.
Your list is pretty good, but some of them are at their ceiling, without being elite. Others have lots of upside, and Franklin is one with tremendous upside.
So what about a great coach who has average talent. Where would you find him? How would you identify him?
Ryan Day is 21-1 with 2 Big Ten titles and 2 CFP appearances in two season (+3 games in the 2018 season).
He may be the next Larry Coker. But given his lineage as a heralded offensive mind, his incoming recruiting classes, and his results to date, I'm guessing your Jeff Brohm comparison will fall flat.
Also, by your logic, we should just shut this board down and limit it to you. Because virtually any football conversation involves opinions about coaches, players, and teams. And since only you has the expertise to discuss such topics, the rest of us should be prohibited from commenting on anything football-related. Right?
Come on, man.
Franklin has been out coached plenty of times since coming to Penn State. The example I gave it the most egregious example this season.
If you think he is not being outcoached, you should raise your expectations.
You are pretty close to right about simple opinions from unqualified people. Would you critique brain surgery? Probably. People like you were the ones tongue kissing Jeff Brohm when he beat OSU.....not me. Ryan Day was given a premier football program. There are likely 3 or 4 dozen other coaches who could have keep that train on the track.
If we're looking at potential coaches to break into that Saban/Dabo category, I'm not sure who I'd pick other than perhaps Ryan Day. And that's based on a combination of (1) results to date, and (2) insane incoming recruiting classes. But history is full of guys who inherited loaded programs only to fail after an initial 1-3 year honeymoon period.
Larry Coker, Frank Solich, Mark Helfrich, etc.
Who honestly would have picked Dabo to be the guy he became? Or even Saban when he was at Michigan State?
So this is obviously an inexact science. Maybe if he were to land at the right school, somebody like Matt Campbell could? A Texas, for instance. Or perhaps Dan Mullen will eventually get there at Florida? He's certainly off to a good start.
But hard to say.
I do agree that Franklin has a high upside and is one of those guys with the potential go rise higher (unlike a guy like Mack Brown).
Can you find a quote of me praising Jeff Brohm?
Because the last I remember, I mentioned a year or so ago that no coach in modern history has gotten such a reputation bump on the basis of one game (the 2018 Ohio State win), and probably doesn't deserve the reputation he has gotten.
But perhaps you're remembering things better?
Thanks in advance.
And can you name the 3-4 dozen coaches who would have done what Ryan Day has done thus far at Ohio State?
Thanks in advance.
I would ask you to list your "top 10" coaches, but I realize that's for FANBOYZ LOL, and certainly beneath you. So I'd hate to ask you to waste your time rolling in the intellectual mud with the scumbags.
Yesterday, you were mocking Julien Fleming for his age because he did not commit to Penn State. Today, you are diminishing everything Ryan Day has accomplished in 2 years. Your hatred of Ohio State is pretty ridiculous. Oh but wait, you went to Southern high school and played jv football so you are qualified to talk about both Fleming and Day, Garbage.
Plenty of times? He won 42 games in four years...he ain’t getting out coached very often. And I have a secret for you, not every loss is because the coach got out coached. A coach can only put players in a position to win...if the players don’t make plays, that’s not the coach’s fault....unfortunately the fans of today don’t seem to understand that.
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You sound like you’ve got it all figured out. Wonder if Sandy will hire you as an assistant AD for deflection of blame.
Those of us who took Franklin seriously about the team becoming elite are not being unreasonable to hold him to that standard. I stand by my comment that he is not a very good game coach and it has cost Penn State wins.
Nothing wrong with being critical of Ohio State.
It's too early to draw lasting conclusions about Ryan Day. But the sample size thus far is pretty damn impressive if you're an Ohio State guy. There's a reason why many in Columbus didn't sweat it when Urbs retired and passed the baton to Day.
But yeah.......if you're going to take the position that nobody here is qualified to comment on anything football-related, then that also goes for him. No disrespect to the man -- I've long respected his opinions. But it gets tiring to hear that only he is qualified to comment on this stuff when he himself lacks legitimate P5 coaching qualifications.
This is a fan board. To come onto a football fan board and mock fans for giving their opinions is pretty silly, and if he's looking for deference on the basis of his experience, he's probably better off starting his own blog and going from there.
Exactly...no discussion can be had with those 2 that has a modicum of criticism without getting slammed
