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Why did Franklin get rid of Limegrover……

Wasn't Addazio the HC at BC when Trautwein was there?

Might explain the success of those BC offensive lines. Addazio was Urban Meyer's OL coach at Florida and built a punishing line. It's sorta like crediting UGA's DC for their defense when in fact Kirby Smart is the guy that builds that defense.

Anyway.....I like the Trautwein hire at the time. But the OL has been a total mess.
 
Wasn't Addazio the HC at BC when Trautwein was there?

Might explain the success of those BC offensive lines. Addazio was Urban Meyer's OL coach at Florida and built a punishing line. It's sorta like crediting UGA's DC for their defense when in fact Kirby Smart is the guy that builds that defense.

Anyway.....I like the Trautwein hire at the time. But the OL has been a total mess.
We need to change our OL recruiting philosophy. Franklin seems to think that we are going to field a top OL by mining inner city Baltimore for talent. That is only going to get us a Maryland quality OL. Look at UM's OL. MSU, Iowa, Wisconsin and Fleck has made himself a nasty little OL at Minny as well. All of these OLs are light years ahead of us! They are all made up of Big, Smart, Tough, Strong Mid-West Farmboys with a killer work ethic. They all play together like a well oiled disciplined unit. You are robbing us of $8M a year as coach. WATCH SOME FILM OF THE ABOVE AND START FOCUSING ON BIG, SMART, TOUGH FARMBOYS!! The kind of kids that Trautwein was putting in the NFL!! at BC!!!
 
The RPO offense is reliant on the system working. The quarterback has to get rid of the ball in 2-3 seconds , very fast. It needs to rely on recivers getting the pass fast so by the time your line is at 3 yards the ball is gone. Ideally the line goes out, executes their assignments and the play has developed. An RPO was not designed for the quarterback to decide not to keep it or hand it off and then hit a bomb downfield. The ball has to get out if it's not being run. It should be quick hits to receivers and then they make plays after the catch. The o-line should be able to block aggressively on RPO and it doesn't matter what happens because they have their blocking assignments and they are executing them regardless of what the decision is.
If your play call is a designed run or a designed pass then that's different. Problem still is that the line could not block when they knew it was a straight run play. MSU's front 4 handled the o line yesterday without help and allowed linebackers to run free. As many have stated on here its the type of player your recruiting and being able to know, especially in an RPO that your o line is blocking full speed and your QB has to be able to get rid of the ball fast and your receivers can get open quickly. If the line has to take time to allow a play in the RPO to develop or wait and see if it's a pass or a run , your doomed.
 
The RPO offense is reliant on the system working. The quarterback has to get rid of the ball in 2-3 seconds , very fast. It needs to rely on recivers getting the pass fast so by the time your line is at 3 yards the ball is gone. Ideally the line goes out, executes their assignments and the play has developed. An RPO was not designed for the quarterback to decide not to keep it or hand it off and then hit a bomb downfield. The ball has to get out if it's not being run. It should be quick hits to receivers and then they make plays after the catch. The o-line should be able to block aggressively on RPO and it doesn't matter what happens because they have their blocking assignments and they are executing them regardless of what the decision is.
If your play call is a designed run or a designed pass then that's different. Problem still is that the line could not block when they knew it was a straight run play. MSU's front 4 handled the o line yesterday without help and allowed linebackers to run free. As many have stated on here its the type of player your recruiting and being able to know, especially in an RPO that your o line is blocking full speed and your QB has to be able to get rid of the ball fast and your receivers can get open quickly. If the line has to take time to allow a play in the RPO to develop or wait and see if it's a pass or a run , your doomed.
That’s a good explanation.
Also, PSU has run RPO under Ciarrocca and Yurcich. The offense under Moorhead and Rahne was more of a read option offense with some RPO thrown in.
 
The RPO offense is reliant on the system working. The quarterback has to get rid of the ball in 2-3 seconds , very fast. It needs to rely on recivers getting the pass fast so by the time your line is at 3 yards the ball is gone. Ideally the line goes out, executes their assignments and the play has developed. An RPO was not designed for the quarterback to decide not to keep it or hand it off and then hit a bomb downfield. The ball has to get out if it's not being run. It should be quick hits to receivers and then they make plays after the catch. The o-line should be able to block aggressively on RPO and it doesn't matter what happens because they have their blocking assignments and they are executing them regardless of what the decision is.
If your play call is a designed run or a designed pass then that's different. Problem still is that the line could not block when they knew it was a straight run play. MSU's front 4 handled the o line yesterday without help and allowed linebackers to run free. As many have stated on here its the type of player your recruiting and being able to know, especially in an RPO that your o line is blocking full speed and your QB has to be able to get rid of the ball fast and your receivers can get open quickly. If the line has to take time to allow a play in the RPO to develop or wait and see if it's a pass or a run , your doomed.
Thanks for that. I would also add that the "Run Option", part of the RPO or Run Pass Option, has to be that the QB a) might run the ball and b) be effective when he does. The idea is to run an option against a "key", typically a DE, Dt or OLB. If that player plays QB, he hands to ball off to the RB. If he plays RB the QB keeps the ball. With SC, there has been no threat to have the QB keep the ball and get a decent gain. So the "key" simply follows the RB. That eliminates both the QB and RB on the option and you haven't yet dedicated your MLB, S or CB. Those positions are free to stick to the WR, SR or TE making the entire RPO scheme useless.
 
Thanks for that. I would also add that the "Run Option", part of the RPO or Run Pass Option, has to be that the QB a) might run the ball and b) be effective when he does. The idea is to run an option against a "key", typically a DE, Dt or OLB. If that player plays QB, he hands to ball off to the RB. If he plays RB the QB keeps the ball. With SC, there has been no threat to have the QB keep the ball and get a decent gain. So the "key" simply follows the RB. That eliminates both the QB and RB on the option and you haven't yet dedicated your MLB, S or CB. Those positions are free to stick to the WR, SR or TE making the entire RPO scheme useless.
You’re describing “read option” not RPO. RPO is QB reading LBs and DBs, then either handing off or throwing a pass. QB only runs if the play breaks down.
 
You’re describing “read option” not RPO. RPO is QB reading LBs and DBs, then either handing off or throwing a pass. QB only runs if the play breaks down.
Right...fair enough. But to the RPO, it only works when you are able to get a running game going that is feared by the LBs and DBs. If you can stop the run with a standard cover two base-set, the S and LBers will simply sit on the pass knowing the RB won't bet beyond the DL. In a one-back set, the D has to fear the QB run lest all of the other stuff is the crap. If they don't, they just follow the RB everywhere. You're only offsetting options is a jet sweep as misdirection.

If I am playing PSU's O today, I have my CBs tight on the WR, double with my OLBs and S. I dare PSU to beat my DL. And I instruct my DL to follow the RB on every play until they commit to the pass. Easy Peasy.
 
That’s a good explanation.
Also, PSU has run RPO under Ciarrocca and Yurcich. The offense under Moorhead and Rahne was more of a read option offense with some RPO thrown in.

Read option is a pure running play no matter what the LBs or DBs are doing in the run game. That's why Barkley had to run against an 8 man front way too often. We saw a lot more look at me pre snap play call/changes under MoJo. MoJo wanted to try and be in the right play,run or pass, pre snap at least some of the time. Other times he ran SaSa/Trace into those 8 man fronts no matter what look they gave us. If we had our current running back playing in MoJo offense they would look just as bad. Barkley was special and broke off a lot of big running plays to the outside when the actual called play was to the inside. Better defenses have evolved to make the read option less effective if it is the primary play of your running scheme and they know it is come.
 
I would take Limgrover back in a heart beat, our offensive line play has detireated since he was let go
 
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Unless to you have top shelf talent, I suspect most OL coaches are pulling their hair out trying to coach up the run game in the RPO scheme. Tough to fire out on your blocks when you don't know if it is run or pass.
Which explains why other teams running RPO have effective run games I guess.
 
Matt was let go because the pass pro stats were strongly trending in the wrong direction as to sacks, pressures and hurries.
 
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I’m not calling for Trautwein to be fired. I think he deserves another year. However, if Franklin decides to let him go, I wonder how happy Tyler Bowen is working for Urb. Bowen was OL coach at Fordham and at Maryland and is obviously familiar with Franklin and PSU having coached here twice. He also played OL at Maryland while Franklin was OC.
 
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Which explains why other teams running RPO have effective run games I guess.
That’s true, and given the similar results under three different OL coaches and five different OCs, it leads me to question the talent of the players or at least their suitability for the system.
 
Which explains why other teams running RPO have effective run games I guess.

Sure I will bite which "other teams" have an effective RPO run game that face the defensive talent we have to face in the B10 and run the RPO as much as we do???
 
We need to change our OL recruiting philosophy. Franklin seems to think that we are going to field a top OL by mining inner city Baltimore for talent. That is only going to get us a Maryland quality OL. Look at UM's OL. MSU, Iowa, Wisconsin and Fleck has made himself a nasty little OL at Minny as well. All of these OLs are light years ahead of us! They are all made up of Big, Smart, Tough, Strong Mid-West Farmboys with a killer work ethic. They all play together like a well oiled disciplined unit. You are robbing us of $8M a year as coach. WATCH SOME FILM OF THE ABOVE AND START FOCUSING ON BIG, SMART, TOUGH FARMBOYS!! The kind of kids that Trautwein was putting in the NFL!! at BC!!!
Inner city Baltimore?
 
Matt was let go because the pass pro stats were strongly trending in the wrong direction as to sacks, pressures and hurries.
I don't know why he was let go but the decision to continue to run 73 on a D1 field every game this year needs to be seriously examined. I have never seen a worse center at psu in 50 years. I'm not exaggerating when I say his level of play was low Division 2. At the best. Just embarrassing.
 
Nail meet hammer. Therein lies the biggest problem. CJF stubbornly sticking to the RPO blocking scheme.
LOL I guess RPO is the new zone blocking. People ranted about years ago that if we didn't use zone blocking it would magically fix the offensive line struggles.

In reality Penn State ran very little RPO but it doesn't stop the know it alls from clinging to the latest buzz word that they think makes them sound like they know better than the coaches. In reality RPO is very effective and is the reason why it is a buzz word. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with it or that prevents it from being effective.

The reason why Penn State offensive line struggle is the same reason every offensive line struggle. I played offensive line in college and coached it in high school. It doesn't matter what scheme you use it comes down to execution. First of all you have to know the correct assignment and then you have win the one on one battle.

As a linemen when the play is called you don't know what your assignment is. That is determined based on where the defense lines up. You make calls along the line pre-snap. Then based on stunts that can all change. It takes a lot of communication. One missed assignment will kill a play. Then even if everyone does the right thing then you still have to win the one on one battle.

So in reality Penn State is blowing to many assignments and not winning the one on one battles far to often. You can change the scheme all you want but the results are going to be the same. In fact the more you change the schemes (IE change OC) the more likely you are going to see a breakdown in the first part of the equation.
 
I don't know why he was let go but the decision to continue to run 73 on a D1 field every game this year needs to be seriously examined. I have never seen a worse center at psu in 50 years. I'm not exaggerating when I say his level of play was low Division 2. At the best. Just embarrassing.
How many practices have you attended to say that there was a better center on the roster?
 
The RPO offense is reliant on the system working. The quarterback has to get rid of the ball in 2-3 seconds , very fast. It needs to rely on recivers getting the pass fast so by the time your line is at 3 yards the ball is gone. Ideally the line goes out, executes their assignments and the play has developed. An RPO was not designed for the quarterback to decide not to keep it or hand it off and then hit a bomb downfield. The ball has to get out if it's not being run. It should be quick hits to receivers and then they make plays after the catch. The o-line should be able to block aggressively on RPO and it doesn't matter what happens because they have their blocking assignments and they are executing them regardless of what the decision is.
If your play call is a designed run or a designed pass then that's different. Problem still is that the line could not block when they knew it was a straight run play. MSU's front 4 handled the o line yesterday without help and allowed linebackers to run free. As many have stated on here its the type of player your recruiting and being able to know, especially in an RPO that your o line is blocking full speed and your QB has to be able to get rid of the ball fast and your receivers can get open quickly. If the line has to take time to allow a play in the RPO to develop or wait and see if it's a pass or a run , your doomed.
Could you please explain why our O-Line have sucked then with at least 5 guys in the NFL.
 
to$u? Don’t watch them enough to know how much RPO they run.

LOL. I guess when Franklin can recruit like Day then we will be able to run the ball like them. From the rankings I've seen in the rankings we are not even close to getting a top 5 class year after year. Even though we were #1 for awhile this year, our class will be out of the top 5.
 
Could you please explain why our O-Line have sucked then with at least 5 guys in the NFL.
First Penn State only has 4 guys in the NFL. Only three of which careers overlapped and all are back up in the NFL. The one year of overlap the one was just a true freshmen and the other year Penn State effectively ran the ball. The fourth didn't even play for Franklin. Now compare that to say Ohio State who has 10 guys in the NFL.

Ryan Bates 16/17/18
Will Fries 17/18/19/20
Connor McGovern 16/17/18
 
Read option is a pure running play no matter what the LBs or DBs are doing in the run game. That's why Barkley had to run against an 8 man front way too often. We saw a lot more look at me pre snap play call/changes under MoJo. MoJo wanted to try and be in the right play,run or pass, pre snap at least some of the time. Other times he ran SaSa/Trace into those 8 man fronts no matter what look they gave us. If we had our current running back playing in MoJo offense they would look just as bad. Barkley was special and broke off a lot of big running plays to the outside when the actual called play was to the inside. Better defenses have evolved to make the read option less effective if it is the primary play of your running scheme and they know it is come.
Initially MOJO'S read option failed.. Then he split the TE away to take a defender with him and create more space to run. Matt MiIlen thinks our OL must get lower to block effectively. Leverage is always better at a lower position. I do not think it is kackbof strength.
 
LOL I guess RPO is the new zone blocking. People ranted about years ago that if we didn't use zone blocking it would magically fix the offensive line struggles.

In reality Penn State ran very little RPO but it doesn't stop the know it alls from clinging to the latest buzz word that they think makes them sound like they know better than the coaches. In reality RPO is very effective and is the reason why it is a buzz word. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with it or that prevents it from being effective.

The reason why Penn State offensive line struggle is the same reason every offensive line struggle. I played offensive line in college and coached it in high school. It doesn't matter what scheme you use it comes down to execution. First of all you have to know the correct assignment and then you have win the one on one battle.

As a linemen when the play is called you don't know what your assignment is. That is determined based on where the defense lines up. You make calls along the line pre-snap. Then based on stunts that can all change. It takes a lot of communication. One missed assignment will kill a play. Then even if everyone does the right thing then you still have to win the one on one battle.

So in reality Penn State is blowing to many assignments and not winning the one on one battles far to often. You can change the scheme all you want but the results are going to be the same. In fact the more you change the schemes (IE change OC) the more likely you are going to see a breakdown in the first part of the equation.
this might have been our biggest issue. How many times did we see a blitzer or someone come directly through an area that one of our OL vacated. It happened at least twice last Sat. with our Center.
+1.
 
First Penn State only has 4 guys in the NFL. Only three of which careers overlapped and all are back up in the NFL. The one year of overlap the one was just a true freshmen and the other year Penn State effectively ran the ball. The fourth didn't even play for Franklin. Now compare that to say Ohio State who has 10 guys in the NFL.

Ryan Bates 16/17/18
Will Fries 17/18/19/20
Connor McGovern 16/17/18

Donovan Smith (PSU) has been a fixture as a starting OT with Tampa Bay for several years. He is very good.
 
First Penn State only has 4 guys in the NFL. Only three of which careers overlapped and all are back up in the NFL. The one year of overlap the one was just a true freshmen and the other year Penn State effectively ran the ball. The fourth didn't even play for Franklin. Now compare that to say Ohio State who has 10 guys in the NFL.

Ryan Bates 16/17/18
Will Fries 17/18/19/20
Connor McGovern 16/17/18
There was one guy that was pretty good that retired early because he preferred his hobby of calculating two body planetary orbits.........
 
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