I recently read that the hawkeyes will have 10 AA . Should PSU redshirt everyone and try again in 2021?
will PSU Concede the 2020 title to iowa
- Thread starter uncle jim 62
- Start date
I think it's pretty clear in July of every year that everyone should just capitulate to the superior Iowa team in the coming season.
The same Cass that Seth Nevills delivered a CassWhoppin to or is this a different guy? Kind of like Jacob Warner and Jacob Warnerov? Two different guys
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That is fair to doubt him since he has never had an official D-1 match. I just feel after watching him his redshirt year I think he can be an AA in the 7-8 range. Go back and watch the 3rd place match in under 23's Cass had with Yousef Hemida..
10 AAs could happen if everyone stays healthy... and nobody goes poaching with an asst coach, or decides he just has to have the pelt of the raccoon outside his dorm at midnight, or gets blasted in the leg during some harmless early morning gun play or whatever.
The 1MatchSuspension-Kill yer out of season buck,shoot that raccoon's meat right out from under your new hat and blow both yer teammates knees off with one squeeze of the trigger.It's a Blastx4
The 1MatchSuspension-Kill yer out of season buck,shoot that raccoon's meat right out from under your new hat and blow both yer teammates knees off with one squeeze of the trigger.It's a Blastx4
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I did and Cass put it on Seth for the bulk of those matches, but I’m also not predicting Seth Nevills would AA next year either.
It's actually 10 AA's and 6 National Champions. We're talking 160 points easy.
Just guessing, but I believe the Nits have a better than even money chance of bringing home team title number 10.
One program has an attitude of keep your eye on the prize.
The other program swims in the tide that flows with the tune of, just you wait till next year.
The continous proclamations that this is the year is simply a piece of the "wait till next year" process.
One program has an attitude of keep your eye on the prize.
The other program swims in the tide that flows with the tune of, just you wait till next year.
The continous proclamations that this is the year is simply a piece of the "wait till next year" process.
$100 says Seth doesn't AA next year, and another $100 our Heavy beats Cass in the dual, big 10s and Nationals , assuming Cass makes it far enough into the brackets.
Assuming Mark Hall doesn't Oly a good preseason bet might be who ends up with more AAs? 8+ for the good guys is highly likely.
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When you get someone to take that bet, let me know who it is. I have some others to offer.
I’m confused, why are you messaging me this? Perhaps you replied to wrong person
10 AA's and only 160 points? I am glad to see that the folks on HR are setting realistic expectations for their team this year, unlike other years........
One of my guilty pleasures every March, besides watching PSU win titles, is to monitor HR and watch them go through all 5 stages of grief from Thursday through Saturday.
I do think the 2020 title will be settled Saturday night similar to 2013, 2014 and 2018 for us.
Nah, just a continuation of thought on the focus on Seth while Cassar is returning. Not to mention Free vs Folk. I think Seth will be a better folk than free.
Oh Boy....I Can't Wait!!!! Oh Boy....I Can't Wait!!!!
To find out if Mark Rec Hall is shirting,
If Cenzo will ever see sub 170s or sub 180s.
or if everybody decides to red shirt, gray shirt, smelly shirt or Olympic shirt.
And about 10 other things.
Trust the Process, Trust in Cael....
To find out if Mark Rec Hall is shirting,
If Cenzo will ever see sub 170s or sub 180s.
or if everybody decides to red shirt, gray shirt, smelly shirt or Olympic shirt.
And about 10 other things.
Trust the Process, Trust in Cael....
What do you think about a "Iowa fans say the darndest things" thread similar to the Pitt thread on the McAndrew board. I think it would work out great.
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Talking about getting from 141.5 to 170 and talking about getting from 76 to 170. One of those is funnier than the other.
From Flo in 2018
Which team had the greatest single-season performance of all time? We rank the top 10 in collegiate history.
First a special shout out to Alex Steen and the Open Mat for rescoring every NCAA National Championship Tournament ever. It is a most invaluable resource for this purposes.
10. 2001 Minnesota Golden Gophers
There is no rarer a feat in college wrestling than getting all 10 starters on the podium in March. The '01 Gophers are the only team to ever do it, placing 3, 8, 8, 6, 4, 4, 4, 5, 3, and 3 and scoring 138.5 points at the NCAAs.
9. 1985 Iowa Hawkeyes
Nine All-Americans but "only" two champs (Barry Davis at 126 pounds and Marty Kistler at 158 pounds). This team scored 145.25 points at NCAAs, the sixth-most of any Hawkeye squad.
8. 1969 Iowa State Cyclones
It's difficult to compare teams in the past, even when you adjust the scores to the current rule set, as only the top six wrestlers per weight earned All-American status and the wrestlebacks used repechage instead of full consolation rounds. These Dan Gable-led Cyclones still managed to put eight on the podium with three champs: Gable at 137, Jason Smith at 167, and Chuck Jean at 177, scoring 104 team points in a much stingier environment.
7. 1991 Iowa Hawkeyes
Dan Gable makes yet another appearance, this time once again as coach. The '91 Hawks had two champs (Tom Brands at 134 and Mark Reiland at 167) and eight All-Americans. They finished with 157 team points, or 170.5 using the current rules.
6. 2017 Penn State Nittany Lions
Cael Sanderson's squad reeled off five individual titles in a row, as Zain Retherford, Jason Nolf, Vincenzo Joseph, Mark Hall, and Bo Nickal won 149 through 184 in dramatic fashion. One of the greatest "what ifs" was if Nick Suriano was healthy. He injury-defaulted out of the tournament but had a regular season win over eventual 125-pound champ Darian Cruz and the runnerup, Ethan Lizak. Despite this setback, the Nittany Lions scored 146.5 points with the five champs and a fifth-place finish from heavyweight Nick Nevills.
5. 2005 Oklahoma State Cowboys
The John Smith led Cowboys also had five champs in '05: Zack Esposito at 149, Johny Hendricks at 165, Chris Pendleton at 174, Jake Rosholt at 197, and Steve Mocco at 285. The team had seven All-Americans in total, with Daniel Frishkorn placing fourth at 141 and a freshman Coleman Scott placing eighth at 125. The Cowboys scored 153 points at the NCAA tournament and finished with an unblemished 21-0 dual meet record.
4. 1997 Iowa Hawkeyes
It's hair-splitting time, as the final four teams are all Gable-coached Hawkeye teams and all nearly flawless seasons. The 1997 team technically set the record for most points at an NCAA tournament at 170, but Gable's last team is only third when adjusted for current scoring. This team also lost a dual meet to Oklahoma State 21-13. The Hawkeyes got it done in March, however, with eight All-Americans and five champs (Jesse Whitmer at 118, Mark Ironside at 134, Lincoln McIlravy at 150, Joe Williams at 158, and Lee Fullhart at 190).
3. 1986 Iowa Hawkeyes
The 1986 edition of the Gable era also had five titlists (Brad Penrith at 126, Kevin Dresser at 142, Jim Heffernan at 150, Marty Kistler at 167, and Duane Goldman at 190) and eight All-Americans. They scored 158 points at the NCAA tournament (or 169 rules-adjusted). Somehow this team lost their last dual of the year — 16-19 to Iowa State — but still won the NCAAs by 73.25 points over second-place Oklahoma. That 46.5-percent margin of victory is the highest since the 1950s.
2. 1983 Iowa Hawkeyes
At the 1983 NCAAs, the Hawkeyes scored 155 actual points, which translates to 177.5 using the current rules, which is the most in NCAA history. This squad, yet another coached by the legendary Dan Gable, placed nine wrestlers on the podium, none lower than fifth, and four on the top step. The champs were Barry Davis at 126, Jim Zalesky at 158, Ed Banach at 190, and Lou Banach at 285. Ed and Lou would win gold medals at the 1984 Summer Olympics and Barry Davis would win silver. The only blemish on this team is a 23-27 loss to Oklahoma State.
1. 1992 Iowa Hawkeyes
The 1992 Hawkeyes scored 149 points at the NCAA Tournament, which translates to 175 points, or second all-time. They also sported an unblemished dual meet record, going 16-0. The closest any team came to beating Iowa this season was a 32-13 beating of Iowa State and a 30-11 trouncing of Penn State. In March, nine Hawkeyes from this team climbed the podium; none finished worse than fifth. The only member of this team not to place in the top eight was Mark Reiland at 167. Reiland was seeded seventh and lost in the bloodround. Every member of this team was seeded seventh or higher to start the tournament. The three champs this year all received top seeds in their bracket: Terry Brands at 126, Tom Brands at 134, and Troy Steiner at 142.
Your mileage may vary depending on whether you value NCAA points, NCAA champs, NCAA All-Americans, or some other factor more. Of the top five Iowa teams based on adjusted NCAA points, the 1992 team is the only one that went untied and undefeated in regular season duals. As such, they are the top pick for this list.
Which team had the greatest single-season performance of all time? We rank the top 10 in collegiate history.
First a special shout out to Alex Steen and the Open Mat for rescoring every NCAA National Championship Tournament ever. It is a most invaluable resource for this purposes.
10. 2001 Minnesota Golden Gophers
There is no rarer a feat in college wrestling than getting all 10 starters on the podium in March. The '01 Gophers are the only team to ever do it, placing 3, 8, 8, 6, 4, 4, 4, 5, 3, and 3 and scoring 138.5 points at the NCAAs.
9. 1985 Iowa Hawkeyes
Nine All-Americans but "only" two champs (Barry Davis at 126 pounds and Marty Kistler at 158 pounds). This team scored 145.25 points at NCAAs, the sixth-most of any Hawkeye squad.
8. 1969 Iowa State Cyclones
It's difficult to compare teams in the past, even when you adjust the scores to the current rule set, as only the top six wrestlers per weight earned All-American status and the wrestlebacks used repechage instead of full consolation rounds. These Dan Gable-led Cyclones still managed to put eight on the podium with three champs: Gable at 137, Jason Smith at 167, and Chuck Jean at 177, scoring 104 team points in a much stingier environment.
7. 1991 Iowa Hawkeyes
Dan Gable makes yet another appearance, this time once again as coach. The '91 Hawks had two champs (Tom Brands at 134 and Mark Reiland at 167) and eight All-Americans. They finished with 157 team points, or 170.5 using the current rules.
6. 2017 Penn State Nittany Lions
Cael Sanderson's squad reeled off five individual titles in a row, as Zain Retherford, Jason Nolf, Vincenzo Joseph, Mark Hall, and Bo Nickal won 149 through 184 in dramatic fashion. One of the greatest "what ifs" was if Nick Suriano was healthy. He injury-defaulted out of the tournament but had a regular season win over eventual 125-pound champ Darian Cruz and the runnerup, Ethan Lizak. Despite this setback, the Nittany Lions scored 146.5 points with the five champs and a fifth-place finish from heavyweight Nick Nevills.
5. 2005 Oklahoma State Cowboys
The John Smith led Cowboys also had five champs in '05: Zack Esposito at 149, Johny Hendricks at 165, Chris Pendleton at 174, Jake Rosholt at 197, and Steve Mocco at 285. The team had seven All-Americans in total, with Daniel Frishkorn placing fourth at 141 and a freshman Coleman Scott placing eighth at 125. The Cowboys scored 153 points at the NCAA tournament and finished with an unblemished 21-0 dual meet record.
4. 1997 Iowa Hawkeyes
It's hair-splitting time, as the final four teams are all Gable-coached Hawkeye teams and all nearly flawless seasons. The 1997 team technically set the record for most points at an NCAA tournament at 170, but Gable's last team is only third when adjusted for current scoring. This team also lost a dual meet to Oklahoma State 21-13. The Hawkeyes got it done in March, however, with eight All-Americans and five champs (Jesse Whitmer at 118, Mark Ironside at 134, Lincoln McIlravy at 150, Joe Williams at 158, and Lee Fullhart at 190).
3. 1986 Iowa Hawkeyes
The 1986 edition of the Gable era also had five titlists (Brad Penrith at 126, Kevin Dresser at 142, Jim Heffernan at 150, Marty Kistler at 167, and Duane Goldman at 190) and eight All-Americans. They scored 158 points at the NCAA tournament (or 169 rules-adjusted). Somehow this team lost their last dual of the year — 16-19 to Iowa State — but still won the NCAAs by 73.25 points over second-place Oklahoma. That 46.5-percent margin of victory is the highest since the 1950s.
2. 1983 Iowa Hawkeyes
At the 1983 NCAAs, the Hawkeyes scored 155 actual points, which translates to 177.5 using the current rules, which is the most in NCAA history. This squad, yet another coached by the legendary Dan Gable, placed nine wrestlers on the podium, none lower than fifth, and four on the top step. The champs were Barry Davis at 126, Jim Zalesky at 158, Ed Banach at 190, and Lou Banach at 285. Ed and Lou would win gold medals at the 1984 Summer Olympics and Barry Davis would win silver. The only blemish on this team is a 23-27 loss to Oklahoma State.
1. 1992 Iowa Hawkeyes
The 1992 Hawkeyes scored 149 points at the NCAA Tournament, which translates to 175 points, or second all-time. They also sported an unblemished dual meet record, going 16-0. The closest any team came to beating Iowa this season was a 32-13 beating of Iowa State and a 30-11 trouncing of Penn State. In March, nine Hawkeyes from this team climbed the podium; none finished worse than fifth. The only member of this team not to place in the top eight was Mark Reiland at 167. Reiland was seeded seventh and lost in the bloodround. Every member of this team was seeded seventh or higher to start the tournament. The three champs this year all received top seeds in their bracket: Terry Brands at 126, Tom Brands at 134, and Troy Steiner at 142.
Your mileage may vary depending on whether you value NCAA points, NCAA champs, NCAA All-Americans, or some other factor more. Of the top five Iowa teams based on adjusted NCAA points, the 1992 team is the only one that went untied and undefeated in regular season duals. As such, they are the top pick for this list.
No worries. The 8th team title out of 9 years was a nice consolation prize.
23 team titles is also sweet no?
PSU finished with 137.5 pts.
Hypothetically, let's say a few things go differently in their favor, adding the minimum point gain as a consequence:
• Rasheed wrestles to seed (+12.5)
• Lee beats McKenna (+4)
• Joseph wrestles to seed (+4)
• Hall wrestles to seed (+4)
Add those points to 137.5, and you get to 162.0. That leaves 8.0 points for the remainder of the team to make up via some combo of freshmen (RBY, Berge) magic and extra bonus from the vets.
Now, I never for a second thought all the cards would fall that way, but a path to 170 was there when you look at how things played out. Of course, Cassar and RBY wrestling above seed helped make such a scenario a little more possible (in retrospect).
Hypothetically, let's say a few things go differently in their favor, adding the minimum point gain as a consequence:
• Rasheed wrestles to seed (+12.5)
• Lee beats McKenna (+4)
• Joseph wrestles to seed (+4)
• Hall wrestles to seed (+4)
Add those points to 137.5, and you get to 162.0. That leaves 8.0 points for the remainder of the team to make up via some combo of freshmen (RBY, Berge) magic and extra bonus from the vets.
Now, I never for a second thought all the cards would fall that way, but a path to 170 was there when you look at how things played out. Of course, Cassar and RBY wrestling above seed helped make such a scenario a little more possible (in retrospect).
Definitely! But I do like living in the present better than the past.
Too bad all those Iowa seasons were from another century. Problem for Iowa is it is the 21st century now.
GLORY DAYS...WELL THEY'LL PASS YOU BY...
Alex Steen- The Open Mat 2018
The eye-popping numbers that Penn State has put up the last two years at the NCAA Division I Wrestling Championships have rarely been seen in the history of the event. However, the rules of team scoring have varied over the years. That makes it difficult to directly compare teams across eras. As recently as before the 2013 tournament, the NCAA stopped awarding bye points, meaning scores for the exact same performance would now be lower than they were before the change. The wrestling history books are littered with such examples. Placement points last changed in 2001. Bonus point victories, both in what constitutes one and how much they are worth, have gone through many iterations since the superior decision was introduced in 1972. It wasn’t until 1995 that falls became worth two extra team points, before that they were worth just one. There have been other changes at the NCAA tournament in addition to team scoring, of course. Before 1996, not everyone got to compete in the wrestlebacks. Between 1941 and 1971, only those who lost to the finalists got a chance to compete for third, just like international freestyle and Greco today. Eight All-Americans per weight weren’t crowned until 1979.
With all this chaos, it can be difficult to put a team score into proper context. We know the 1997 Iowa Hawkeyes hold the scoring record with 170, but how does that really compare to what the Nittany Lions have done the past two years and which teams performed best on college wrestling’s biggest stage? One way to get closer to those answers is to score every NCAA DI tournament over the years using today’s rule set. We did just that and below you’ll find the top 200 scores throughout history. This still shorts the older teams some, especially those who competed in the six All-American and limited wrestleback eras. However, it accounts for every match actually wrestled and puts everyone on close to level footing to start. Adjusting to today’s scoring swung at least three national title races to a different outcome than the one determined at the time. Oklahoma State would have outscored Iowa State in 1965 and Oklahoma in 1974 to win additional crowns. The Cowboys finished third behind Michigan in 1974, but they would have nipped the Wolverines as well under today’s scoring. The 1999 NCAA team championship would have been shared between Iowa and Minnesota had these rules been in place.
Adjusted points
1- 1983 Iowa 177.5
2- 1992 Iowa 175
3- 1997 Iowa 172
4- 1991 Iowa 171
5- 1986 Iowa 169
6- 1985 Iowa 157
7- 1981 Iowa 154.5
8- 1969 ISU 154.5
9- 1982 Iowa 150
10- 2005 Okie State 148
11- 2017 PSU 146.5
12- 1995 Iowa 144.5
13- 2018 PSU 142.5
14- 1984 Iowa 141
15- 1979 Iowa 140.5
16- 1976 Iowa 139.5
The eye-popping numbers that Penn State has put up the last two years at the NCAA Division I Wrestling Championships have rarely been seen in the history of the event. However, the rules of team scoring have varied over the years. That makes it difficult to directly compare teams across eras. As recently as before the 2013 tournament, the NCAA stopped awarding bye points, meaning scores for the exact same performance would now be lower than they were before the change. The wrestling history books are littered with such examples. Placement points last changed in 2001. Bonus point victories, both in what constitutes one and how much they are worth, have gone through many iterations since the superior decision was introduced in 1972. It wasn’t until 1995 that falls became worth two extra team points, before that they were worth just one. There have been other changes at the NCAA tournament in addition to team scoring, of course. Before 1996, not everyone got to compete in the wrestlebacks. Between 1941 and 1971, only those who lost to the finalists got a chance to compete for third, just like international freestyle and Greco today. Eight All-Americans per weight weren’t crowned until 1979.
With all this chaos, it can be difficult to put a team score into proper context. We know the 1997 Iowa Hawkeyes hold the scoring record with 170, but how does that really compare to what the Nittany Lions have done the past two years and which teams performed best on college wrestling’s biggest stage? One way to get closer to those answers is to score every NCAA DI tournament over the years using today’s rule set. We did just that and below you’ll find the top 200 scores throughout history. This still shorts the older teams some, especially those who competed in the six All-American and limited wrestleback eras. However, it accounts for every match actually wrestled and puts everyone on close to level footing to start. Adjusting to today’s scoring swung at least three national title races to a different outcome than the one determined at the time. Oklahoma State would have outscored Iowa State in 1965 and Oklahoma in 1974 to win additional crowns. The Cowboys finished third behind Michigan in 1974, but they would have nipped the Wolverines as well under today’s scoring. The 1999 NCAA team championship would have been shared between Iowa and Minnesota had these rules been in place.
Adjusted points
1- 1983 Iowa 177.5
2- 1992 Iowa 175
3- 1997 Iowa 172
4- 1991 Iowa 171
5- 1986 Iowa 169
6- 1985 Iowa 157
7- 1981 Iowa 154.5
8- 1969 ISU 154.5
9- 1982 Iowa 150
10- 2005 Okie State 148
11- 2017 PSU 146.5
12- 1995 Iowa 144.5
13- 2018 PSU 142.5
14- 1984 Iowa 141
15- 1979 Iowa 140.5
16- 1976 Iowa 139.5
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Glad to see you gove someone other than Cael's team credit. A step in the right direction34 is even sweeter.
You guys can't even finish #1 at that.
JoPa would agree with that statement. God rest his soul.
Doesn't mean history is unwritten
Minn. with 10 AA.. until someone else does that, thats most impressive to me. why are points a big deal? unless you have the over or under who cares.
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