Would you rather have Franklin or Harbaugh as head coach?

[Obliviax]

The sanctions are an overwrought excuse for incompetence. 2012 was the only season significantly impacted by the sanctions. They had minor impacts on 13 and very minor impacts on Franklin's teams. Franklin is a good coach, not a great coach but was in over his head when he got to Penn State. The worse offensive coaching in America was the problem in 14 and 15. With that defense and Hackenberg under center, they could have got to 9 or 10 wins both years simply by running a conservative pro-style offense with a man blocking scheme.

What Donovan and company tried to do in 2014 was on par with what Rich Rodriquez attempted to do at Michigan in 2008 when they ended up 3 and 9. Hack was the difference between a bowl game and 3 and 9 in 14 and 15. The same thing happened in 2020. The pandemic was the least of our problems when the real culprit was the radical shift in offensive philosophy.

The reasons we lost two games in 17 and 19 was the reason we lost 4 in 2018, 5 in 2021, 2 in 2022, we continue to lose to Ohio State and regularly lose with a very similar profile. Franklin loses to good teams almost all the time during the regular season. The post season is a bit different but not that different. Things get very interesting when you look at the schedule in detail.

What?

jeebus. In 2015, we started a really nice kid at LT who couldn't block a wet paper bag named Paris Palmer, an xfer from Lackawanna. IIRC, we had 7 scholarship OLmen. We gave up 10 sacks. One when Temple rushed only two players.

Not only did penn state lose scholarships, but recruiting was also very difficult given the prognostications that PSU would take at least ten years to recover. The NCAA dropped many of the sanctions early but that didn't help the reputation. I can only imagine what it was like to recruit a kid and mention that they'd be spending time in the Lasch Building where you can see where Jerry used to molest kids.

 

[GSL]

Franklin is the worst coach in all of football. He is the most over paid coach. He has never been to the playoffs. He can’t win the big games and his inability to recruit high end talent is proven.

 

[LandoComando]

What happened at Vandy and Stanford are comparable but Harbaugh took Stanford to a level that Franklin didn't or couldn't with Vandy.

 

[marshall23]

Franklin is the worst coach in all of football. He is the most over paid coach. He has never been to the playoffs. He can’t win the big games and his inability to recruit high end talent is proven.

Other than that....how did you enjoy the evening Ms. LINCOLN?

 

[marshall23]

What happened at Vandy and Stanford are comparable but Harbaugh took Stanford to a level that Franklin didn't or couldn't with Vandy.

Stanford isn't in the SEC

 

[Wallace Breen]

What?

jeebus. In 2015, we started a really nice kid at LT who couldn't block a wet paper bag named Paris Palmer, an xfer from Lackawanna. IIRC, we had 7 scholarship OLmen. We gave up 10 sacks. One when Temple rushed only two players.

That is linear thinking. You created a straw man. Reality is if the coaching staff weren't so bad, Donovan Smith is the left tackle. The numbers weren't ideal but the coaching was so bad they didn't matter. The line's issues were 95% coaching.

 

[LandoComando]

Stanford isn't in the SEC

They aren't but they're also in the SEC East which wasn't exactly good prior to Smart going to Georgia. Do you need standing from those years? It's like the Big Ten West when Wisconsin is mediocre.

 

[Obliviax]

That is linear thinking. You created a straw man. Reality is if the coaching staff weren't so bad, Donovan Smith is the left tackle. The numbers weren't ideal but the coaching was so bad they didn't matter. The line's issues were 95% coaching.

you can't separate them. recruiting, both players and staff, is a matter of the environment of the program. And that all goes back to sanctions (no bowl, money, etc.)

 

[lazydave841]

Maybe, hopefully, we take a huge step forward this year and this would be an actual debate come January but right now

If it isn't a debate right now, the only thing JF could do is win the playoff and then he would only have 1 item on his list that Harbaugh doesn't. I don't think that alone is enough to make it a debate.

Jimbo Fisher has a national title. Is he better than every coach that doesn't? I don't think so.

 

[lazydave841]

Those kids Vanderbilt recruited off those 2-10 seasons were the greatest in school history! If not for them, Franklin wouldn't have won 9 games (twice mind you). Clearly a program that was on the uptick and Franklin derailed them...

Lol my goodness.

Harbaugh did get Stanford into double digit wins for one season, but Shaw continued to win 10+ games 5 more times after Harbaugh left. That's Shaw, not Harbaugh. Shaw won the conference 5 times as well. Harbaugh left with 0.

 

[LandoComando]

If it isn't a debate right now, the only thing JF could do is win the playoff and then he would only have 1 item on his list that Harbaugh doesn't. I don't think that alone is enough to make it a debate.

Jimbo Fisher has a national title. Is he better than every coach that doesn't? I don't think so.

Beating Michigan this year, winning the Big Ten and making the playoff would be a huge step in making it a discussion.

Fisher has been a disaster since winning...you dont ignore everything after success.

 

[lazydave841]

Beating Michigan this year, winning the Big Ten and making the playoff would be a huge step in making it a discussion.

Fisher has been a disaster since winning...you dont ignore everything after success.

Then it should be a discussion right now if one great playoff season pushes JF that close.

Where was I ignoring his demolition of Tallahassee and his overpaid mediocrity in College Station? I was pointing out that winning one title doesn't actually make a coach great.

Larry Coker inherited a Miami team that was loaded. Won a title, lost in a title game, and was the 5th wheel missing out on another title game. Definitely not on anybodys top 50 list.

 

[marshall23]

They aren't but they're also in the SEC East which wasn't exactly good prior to Smart going to Georgia. Do you need standing from those years? It's like the Big Ten West when Wisconsin is mediocre.

Actually Stanford easily ranks as a winning program all time. Vandy...not even close.

 

[LandoComando]

Then it should be a discussion right now if one great playoff season pushes JF that close.

Where was I ignoring his demolition of Tallahassee and his overpaid mediocrity in College Station? I was pointing out that winning one title doesn't actually make a coach great.

Larry Coker inherited a Miami team that was loaded. Won a title, lost in a title game, and was the 5th wheel missing out on another title game. Definitely not on anybodys top 50 list.

It's not close right now. Provide a single stat that indicates it's currently a discussion. Franklin needs an elite season to be in the conversation.

I agree that winning one title doesn't make a coach great. It's why Franklin could have a year like that and be in the discussion then quickly fall out of it if he doesn't continue that level of success.

Coker was trash. Maybe I'm missing your point here.

 

[lazydave841]

It's not close right now. Provide a single stat that indicates it's currently a discussion. Franklin needs an elite season to be in the conversation.

I agree that winning one title doesn't make a coach great. It's why Franklin could have a year like that and be in the discussion then quickly fall out of it if he doesn't continue that level of success.

Coker was trash. Maybe I'm missing your point here.

My point is: if you think it's not close right now, it's still not going to be close in February if discussed again even if Penn State wins the title. You were the one saying it could be debated later if Franklin beat Michigan, won the Big 10, and made the playoff. I'm merely saying, if it's not close right now, it's not going to be drastically closer in 8 months no matter what.

Harbaugh has been more successful. I'm not ashamed to admit it. His NFL success combined with his college body of work is tough for many to beat.

Now if we are just looking at college work, then it's drastically closer and perhaps Franklin could close the gap in 8 months. But, big but, if it's overall coaching, Harbaugh has more on his mantle.

 

[LandoComando]

My point is: if you think it's not close right now, it's still not going to be close in February if discussed again even if Penn State wins the title. You were the one saying it could be debated later if Franklin beat Michigan, won the Big 10, and made the playoff. I'm merely saying, if it's not close right now, it's not going to be drastically closer in 8 months no matter what.

Harbaugh has been more successful. I'm not ashamed to admit it. His NFL success combined with his college body of work is tough for many to beat.

Now if we are just looking at college work, then it's drastically closer and perhaps Franklin could close the gap in 8 months. But, big but, if it's overall coaching, Harbaugh has more on his mantle.

It's not just about winning a title. That closes the gap between the two along with him beating them and finally making a playoff. Then Franklin has to continue to outperform Harbaugh on the field. I think even with a great season by Franklin that Harbaugh would still be better but Franklin needs that type of season on his resume before it's even debated IMO.

 

[AWS1022]

Honestly believing the sanctions have any real impact today is just a made up belief to remain mad about what happened and create excuses for our recent failures. Let's not pretend Michigan was an easy fix. It's like everyone that assumes Texas will be great every time they hire a new coach.

Saying Harbaugh has been more successful than Franklin is factual not an opinion. It's always not a knock on Franklin. Harbaugh, as weird as he is, has been more successful than almost every coach.

It’s opinion not fact. I’ll give you another example…my brother was a girls high school basketball coach. He took over an inner city school that hadn’t gone to the playoffs in 30 years. There were also two private schools in that league who dominated every single year. In my brother’s second year he took the team to the playoffs and in the third year he took third place (behind the two powerhouses) and again went to the playoffs. Who did the better job? My brother or the other two coaches? Then my brother went to a school in another conference who used to be really strong but had fallen on hard times…in year two and three he got them into the playoffs….he didn’t win the conference, so I guess the coaches that did were better coaches (using your logic). Sorry, no one can convince me that any of those coaches did a better job than my brother did and guess what, had he gone to coach at one of the private schools, I have no doubt he would have won the league…same if he had gone to one of the better schools in the other conference. It’s not always about where you finish, it’s about where you finish compared to where you started.

 

[AWS1022]

Like I said, you just don't like what I have to say. Nothing I said is wrong.

Everything you said is wrong…look at what you said about Vandy vs Stanford…the four years at Vandy prior to Franklin starting they had recruiting class rankings of 67th, 90th, 71st and 61st with 2 four star players and 0 five stars. The four previous years that Harbaugh inherited at Stanford they had the 25th ranked class, 57th, 41st and 54th with 12 four star players and 0 five stars….yet you said Franklin inherited a better team….guess what? You were wrong. And Harbaugh coached in a crap conference and Franklin took over the worst team in the best conference. Sorry, you lose.

 

[AWS1022]

The voices in your head are supporting you 100%.

I think even the voices in his head knows he’s being ridiculous.

 

[marshall23]

Everything you said is wrong…look at what you said about Vandy vs Stanford…the four years at Vandy prior to Franklin starting they had recruiting class rankings of 67th, 90th, 71st and 61st with 2 four star players and 0 five stars. The four previous years that Harbaugh inherited at Stanford they had the 25th ranked class, 57th, 41st and 54th with 12 four star players and 0 five stars….yet you said Franklin inherited a better team….guess what? You were wrong. And Harbaugh coached in a crap conference and Franklin took over the worst team in the best conference. Sorry, you lose.

Coach Wally gets confused by the metrics.

 

[AWS1022]

It's not close right now. Provide a single stat that indicates it's currently a discussion. Franklin needs an elite season to be in the conversation.

I agree that winning one title doesn't make a coach great. It's why Franklin could have a year like that and be in the discussion then quickly fall out of it if he doesn't continue that level of success.

Coker was trash. Maybe I'm missing your point here.

Winning the conference in the third year after the second worst sanctions in college football history is a stat that makes it a discussion whether you want to dismiss it or not.

 

[marshall23]

It’s opinion not fact. I’ll give you another example…my brother was a girls high school basketball coach. He took over an inner city school that hadn’t gone to the playoffs in 30 years. There were also two private schools in that league who dominated every single year. In my brother’s second year he took the team to the playoffs and in the third year he took third place (behind the two powerhouses) and again went to the playoffs. Who did the better job? My brother or the other two coaches? Then my brother went to a school in another conference who used to be really strong but had fallen on hard times…in year two and three he got them into the playoffs….he didn’t win the conference, so I guess the coaches that did were better coaches (using your logic). Sorry, no one can convince me that any of those coaches did a better job than my brother did and guess what, had he gone to coach at one of the private schools, I have no doubt he would have won the league…same if he had gone to one of the better schools in the other conference. It’s not always about where you finish, it’s about where you finish compared to where you started.

Some of the best coaches spend their careers in anonymity...performing small miracles...changing lives for the better.

 

[LandoComando]

It’s opinion not fact. I’ll give you another example…my brother was a girls high school basketball coach. He took over an inner city school that hadn’t gone to the playoffs in 30 years. There were also two private schools in that league who dominated every single year. In my brother’s second year he took the team to the playoffs and in the third year he took third place (behind the two powerhouses) and again went to the playoffs. Who did the better job? My brother or the other two coaches? Then my brother went to a school in another conference who used to be really strong but had fallen on hard times…in year two and three he got them into the playoffs….he didn’t win the conference, so I guess the coaches that did were better coaches (using your logic). Sorry, no one can convince me that any of those coaches did a better job than my brother did and guess what, had he gone to coach at one of the private schools, I have no doubt he would have won the league…same if he had gone to one of the better schools in the other conference. It’s not always about where you finish, it’s about where you finish compared to where you started.

And after a while where it started no longer matters as you have to keep climbing until there's nowhere to go

 

[LandoComando]

Winning the conference in the third year after the second worst sanctions in college football history is a stat that makes it a discussion whether you want to dismiss it or not.

And since then...he needs to get back to that level. Being the third team in the division the goal though you won't own that

SMU had it worse than us

 

[marshall23]

And after a while where it started no longer matters as you have to keep climbing until there's nowhere to go

How the hell would you know? You talk so much shit you should have 2 assholes. Stick to things you know something about...and we will never need to hear from you.

 

[HailToPitt725]

It’s opinion not fact. I’ll give you another example…my brother was a girls high school basketball coach. He took over an inner city school that hadn’t gone to the playoffs in 30 years. There were also two private schools in that league who dominated every single year. In my brother’s second year he took the team to the playoffs and in the third year he took third place (behind the two powerhouses) and again went to the playoffs. Who did the better job? My brother or the other two coaches? Then my brother went to a school in another conference who used to be really strong but had fallen on hard times…in year two and three he got them into the playoffs….he didn’t win the conference, so I guess the coaches that did were better coaches (using your logic). Sorry, no one can convince me that any of those coaches did a better job than my brother did and guess what, had he gone to coach at one of the private schools, I have no doubt he would have won the league…same if he had gone to one of the better schools in the other conference. It’s not always about where you finish, it’s about where you finish compared to where you started.

I think that’s a flawed comparison though. Your brother’s schools have inherent disadvantages in comparison to its competitors. Penn State’s sanctions were not inherent; they limited scholarships for a fixed time period that has since expired. For all intents and purposes, Penn State is on an equal playing field compared to its competitors and has been for several years now. I think a better argument would be comparing NIL money between Michigan and PSU.

 

[LandoComando]

How the hell would you know? You talk so much shit you should have 2 assholes. Stick to things you know something about...and we will never need to hear from you.

These comments are hysterical especially coming from you. Clearly you're not a competitive person.

 

[AWS1022]

And since then...he needs to get back to that level. Being the third team in the division the goal though you won't own that

SMU had it worse than us

No they didn’t, not even close because they didn’t have the stain of being Ped State for years after. The damage went beyond just the sanctions.

 

[AWS1022]

And after a while where it started no longer matters as you have to keep climbing until there's nowhere to go

Not if what caused the damage doesn’t just go away. The damage to the reputation is far worse than the sanctions. Not to mention we hadn’t been the powerhouse program some posters think we were for a looonnnggg time before Franklin got here.

 

[AWS1022]

I think that’s a flawed comparison though. Your brother’s schools have inherent disadvantages in comparison to its competitors. Penn State’s sanctions were not inherent; they limited scholarships for a fixed time period that has since expired. For all intents and purposes, Penn State is on an equal playing field compared to its competitors and has been for several years now. I think a better argument would be comparing NIL money between Michigan and PSU.

As I said in other posts, the damage went way beyond the sanctions….the damage to the university’s reputation doesn’t just go away. It will be a lot more years before we are on an equal playing field.

 

[AWS1022]

These comments are hysterical especially coming from you. Clearly you're not a competitive person.

I don’t know too many people who go into coaching for most of their career if they’re not competitive. Being competitive at home from behind a keyboard isn’t really being competitive.

 

[LandoComando]

No they didn’t, not even close because they didn’t have the stain of being Ped State for years after. The damage went beyond just the sanctions.

You're being delusional

 

[LandoComando]

I don’t know too many people who go into coaching for most of their career if they’re not competitive. Being competitive at home from behind a keyboard isn’t really being competitive.

Not just "at home in front of a keyboard" Played hockey at a very high level. Coaches that don't win don't stick around. All this nonsense about winning isn't the key to success is false. There's a reason Paterno wanted the wins record. Accept it and you'd stop being mad about reality.

 

[LandoComando]

Not if what caused the damage doesn’t just go away. The damage to the reputation is far worse than the sanctions. Not to mention we hadn’t been the powerhouse program some posters think we were for a looonnnggg time before Franklin got here.

This is false. You just want to excuse the lack of success. The only thing true here is we were never as successful as people pretend under Paterno.

 

[marshall23]

Not just "at home in front of a keyboard" Played hockey at a very high level. Coaches that don't win don't stick around. All this nonsense about winning isn't the key to success is false. There's a reason Paterno wanted the wins record. Accept it and you'd stop being mad about reality.

Pocket hockey.

 

[LandoComando]

Pocket hockey.

Believe what you want...reality is always a difficult concept for you

 

[AWS1022]

This is false. You just want to excuse the lack of success. The only thing true here is we were never as successful as people pretend under Paterno.

I agree with you that we weren’t as successful as some posters make us out to be under Paterno, at least not for the last 25 years of his career….so if that’s true, then why is Franklin being held to an unreasonable standard? I don’t need to make excuses for a lack of success because I feel he has had a ton of success.

 

[AWS1022]

Not just "at home in front of a keyboard" Played hockey at a very high level. Coaches that don't win don't stick around. All this nonsense about winning isn't the key to success is false. There's a reason Paterno wanted the wins record. Accept it and you'd stop being mad about reality.

Played but didn’t coach…that explains a lot.

 

[AWS1022]

You're being delusional

I guess all those comments people make, the signs at the games, the posts on message boards, the talking heads bringing it up at every opportunity is just in my head. One of us is being delusional and it ain’t me.

 

[LandoComando]

I agree with you that we weren’t as successful as some posters make us out to be under Paterno, at least not for the last 25 years of his career….so if that’s true, then why is Franklin being held to an unreasonable standard? I don’t need to make excuses for a lack of success because I feel he has had a ton of success.

He's not being held to that. The discussion is which coach has been more successful. That's Harbaugh thus far in their careers. And you're making excuses for not winning titles as you likely did when Paterno was here. The goal is to do what Georgia is doing. Franklin is currently has Penn State third in their division. If that doesn't change he needs to go as expectations need to be higher. Paterno lowered them around here. Sounds like you bought into it.