Wrestling Season
- Thread starter Media Fan
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Maybe I am not explaining this correctly. I never meant to imply it is too dangerous for wrestling to compete. There are just some things in wrestling that are unique to the sport (and really all sports) and travel is one of them which obviously comes into play when making a schedule. Football teams don't play 3 games in a day like wrestling does and wrestling is not a high priority sport. If you have a positive case in wrestling at a quad you have four teams in contact tracing instead of two. I heard some schools don't want to compete against more than one opponent on a given date. I can only assume that is not the coach's choice. That alters the schedule and delays the announcement especially if this was only decided recently (I don't know if that was the case or not).
All I am trying to say is that not having a schedule out already doesn't ruin the season. North Carolina/Campbell are the first dual of the year and they released their schedules yesterday. If hammering out every small detail makes the Presidents feel more comfortable with the plan I am fine waiting. If they released the schedule at 4 p.m. today, we would all look for five minutes and then have nothing to do Penn State wrestling wise from then until whenever the first dual is.
All I am trying to say is that not having a schedule out already doesn't ruin the season. North Carolina/Campbell are the first dual of the year and they released their schedules yesterday. If hammering out every small detail makes the Presidents feel more comfortable with the plan I am fine waiting. If they released the schedule at 4 p.m. today, we would all look for five minutes and then have nothing to do Penn State wrestling wise from then until whenever the first dual is.
I understand your point, however, basketball teams are traveling all the time in the BIG, with roughly the same number of players / staff as a wrestling team, and there are no issues with that. Being that the dynamics between the two are not that different, why is it taking them so long to figure it out!! They are constantly overthinking things!! All I will say is this, it's time we have leaders in all areas that manage things during this pandemic, rather than letting the pandemic manage us. It's easy to decide to shut things down and not allow people / sports to do anything, anyone can do that. It's another thing to manage these same things in a way that they can function properly and safely during this time, which in many situations is not happening. That's what these people supposedly get paid for - to MANAGE and LEAD!!! Again, just my opinion, but the lack of management skills from our governors, to our colleges, to our sports commissioners, etc., has been nothing short of horrendous. They say the virus has shut these sports and other things down, sorry, but your lack of management and your decisions have shut things down, not the virus. Sorry for the rant, but as a business owner with nearly 50 employees, time to call it for what it is.
You and I are on the same team with this. I don't disagree with anything you said but that is not the world college administrators live in and we kind of have to accept that as pathetic as that may be. They make the rules and the people President's answer to don't (board of managers) really have any incentive to have a wrestling season where they do have a financial incentive to have a basketball/football season. I don't want to derail this thread further than I probably already have with why I think that is because there is some good stuff here in the other links.
Bottom line, the infection fatality rate for ages 0-25 is less than 0.001%. There were zero deaths in any sport that was allowed to happen this fall ... professional or collegiate. 99% of deaths in that age group 0-25 were due to 'other' causes ... why isn't the Big Ten concerned about all those 'others'?
The model for wrestling has already been demonstrated with the exhibition matches we've been watching the last 3 months .. Cael obviously understands the science.
If the Big Ten decision makers are going to F-up winter sports as bad as they did fall sports, then each of them need to be hung in effigy. Who the F_ _ _ cares if it's a revenue sport. These kids deserve better ... they are NOT at risk wrestling anymore than the average student hanging out downtown State College.
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It is after now but before eventually.
Testing my reading comprehension here because I:
a. possess some pedantic tendencies (which I occasionally indulge, as I am here)
b. extremely struggle with negative-attenuated logic
"Odds are NOT zero that they WON'T break their neck"...
(unpacking logic....)
There exists A CHANCE that they WON'T break their neck (phew!)
That chance that they WON'T break their neck could be 1% (booo!)
That chance that they WON'T break their neck could be 100% (yay!)
That chance that they WON'T break their neck canNOT be 0% (ok, I guess, but this is pretty meaningless in making a debate point, right?)
Would Clarity be better served (toward an end of making a debate point) if "WON'T break their neck" were replaced with "WILL break their neck?" Let's try it!
"Odds are NOT zero that they WILL break their neck"...
(unpacking logic....)
There exists A CHANCE that they WILL break their neck (ugh, dang!)
That chance that they WILL break their neck could be 1% (yay, that it's low, right?)
That chance that they WILL break their neck could be 100% (the worst! An absolutely untenable level of neck-breaking risk)
That chance that they WILL break their neck canNOT be 0% (makes sense; a dangerous sport inherently carries a nonzero risk of neck-break)(also, importantly, it successfully supports the debate point).
Pedantry sucks, I know.
I'm sorry.
(And this also did actually help me).
I've been leaning into Nerfstate's theory that they need the semester to turn over, to allow for enrollment of wrestlers that were previously planning on redshirting. Guessing that the coaches consider the published Roster to be formal, and accurate for March, so they are delaying releasing it until such time as folk like Nick Lee, Kerkvliet, Brooks maybe (not sure if he was taking Fall classes or not) become enrolled.
The Death Star Lineup release, if you will.
i am also prone to pedantry. according to the CDC, there have been 567 deaths involving covid for ages 0-24 on a total population of 103,258,356 for a total mortality rate of 0.0005%, which is 5x the quoted number here (link https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm).
more specifically, ages 15-24 (closer to, though not entirely, college age people) account for 468 of those deaths and only 42,687,510 population for a total mortality rate of 0.0011%, or 11x the number quoted here.
if you assume that the 15-24 population has contracted covid at the same rate as the entirety of the USA (19.6M cases/328M population = ~6%) then the number of 15-24 year olds who have had covid is only 2,549,285 and the mortality rate jumps to 0.0184%, which is 184x the number quoted here.
MLB, Basketball, NFL, CFB, wrestling events on Rokfin and Flo ... how many of these healthy athletes have died from Covid? How does zero factor into the CDC formula?
BTW: before you have a fit, you're reacting to a typo, the .0001% was supposed to be 0.001%
Coronavirus: COVID Deaths in U.S. by Age, Race
While coronavirus is obviously concerning and a very real threat to some people (namely, the elderly and immunocompromised), these data also show that the risk for the rest of the population is quite low.
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zero would go in the numerator. the denominator would be the number of healthy athletes that have contracted the virus. i don't know that number, do you? unless that number is more than 5000, the expected number of deaths would be less than 1.
I want to see a wrestling season as much as the next guy, but cant understand why everyone is satisfied that there are “zero athlete deaths”. So,are you basically saying that as long as the infected athlete doesnt die then all is well?
You are ignoring he highlighted part (healthy). Of the 500 or so deaths in the age group 0-25 I'm guessing nearly all of them had underlying conditions. If you have data that disproves it bring it on.
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I'm pretty sure that is what is being said.
But I wont speak for any athlete willing to do their thing, coaches who coach and the hundreds behind them trying to earn a living from athletics.
I have had 11 people in my immediate orbit come down with the virus this year. More will get it too, I'm sure. Heck my whole nuclear family probably had it based on illnesses we have had since last December and the amount of people we come in contact with.
But I go to work, wife goes to work, kids play sports and we move along. Carefully ......but we move along.
Bucknell wrestles this weekend. If they can....we should....IMO.
Though he did not die, that basketball player from Florida who collapsed, was diagnosed with Myocarditis, which was most likely the result of his Covid infection earlier in the year. Many people want to give the B10 crap because they are really cautious but that is an example of why they are being so cautious.
Did you take the same cautious approach during the 2017-18 flu season?
There were frequent outbreaks on teams, lots of INFECTED athletes, over 600 deaths in the 0-17 age group. Yet no one was on the stump looking to cancel the season ... we just played through like we always do.
Why? Because no one was keeping count. Obviously 300,000+ deaths is worth counting, more so than the 61,000 2 years ago ... no doubt this is a nasty disease for 55 and older crowd (92% of all deaths) ... but people need to look beyond the raw numbers. A healthy athlete in his prime is no more at risk from this virus than they were the seasonal flu in 2017-18 ... maybe less so. (BTW, Myocarditis was an issue then too, as it is with most viruses)
We have now played through several sports seasons, with thousands of athletes participating and many infections along the way. That data offers its own science, if people can't look at that separate from the daily score, then what good is science.
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You realize that Myocarditis has always been an issue with the seasonal flu. Right?
How Does Flu Cause Myocarditis? - Epainassist - Useful Information for Better Health
Influenza is one of the common causes of myocarditis. Myocarditis is the condition characterized by the infection of muscles of the heart. Flu causes myocarditis through various mechanisms. How Does Flu Cause Myocarditis? One of the major complications of influenza is acute myocarditis. The...
www.epainassist.com
Either way, an athlete who has the benefit of follow-up after being ill is probably in a better place than non athletes.
The comparison of COVID-19 to the flu has always been absolutely ludicrous and politically driven. Utterly absurd.
And let's not forget those others, who are not as fortunate to be college-age
Yeah, that's not why. If you haven't been paying attention, here's a clue: COVID-19 is not the flu, for any number of reasons, and that is why we don't just do things "like we always do." For a simple example, did you happen to hear that hospitals are being overrun all around the country? I'm pretty sure that didn't happen during the 2017-18 flu season.
First. Comparing the flu to Covid is just gibberish offered by those exercising their freedom of speech with no responsibility to understand the subject material.
Second: We have an entire thread for this subject t material.
Second: We have an entire thread for this subject t material.
Explain to me how comparing 600 deaths in the age group 0-17 two years ago, with about 500 deaths in 0-25 age group now is absurd.
There absolutely is a comparison to be drawn for the younger generations, yet people like you want one brush to cover all.
Thankfully, Cael is smart enough to look at all the science, in particular what applies to his athletes ... maybe you can take it up with him.
I'm not oblivious to what is happening, much of my family is on the front lines. But, did you happen to hear that since all the hand wringing and doubting we went through last summer, we have now played through MLB, NBA, NHL, NFL, CFB along with several exhibition wrestling events.
They have demonstrated that athletes can compete away from all the noise, and they can do it safely.
It's comments like these that show a person's complete, utter ignorance.
So you're thinking we shouldn't wrestle? We should cancel the season?
I'm just making the case for the season moving forward, and once the science is broken down into age groups you can see why it can be done safely.
I don't have that data so I'm using data from a larger sample that this group is a subset of. As such, I'm assuming the properties of the entire dataset apply to the subset. It's up to YOU to prove that my assumption doesn't hold. That's how science works.
So you're satisfied taking 500 or so random deaths in the target age group ... ignore that there have been none in any sport played so far ... then extrapolate that into the conclusion it's not safe to wrestle this season? Okay, fine, but the science doesn't support that notion
I didn't make that conclusion at all. I just called out that your estimate was off by a factor of almost 200, you did the rest.
Actually, you can find news reports from that flu season that details that same concerns...being overrun, staff being overworked, etc. Dirty little secret that the media does not tell us, most hospitals during a very calm time of the year are at 85 to 90% capacity. There is very little excess capacity in the health care system because empty beds cost money. Hospitals do have plans to expand capacity when needed on a temporary basis.
These posters need to enter the transfer portal. There is a thread for this stuff.
These posters need to enter the transfer portal. There is a thread for this stuff.
Is there room in the transfer portal, with Jammen constantly flipping between Minnesota and Nebraska?
Some updates ...
- in my area, some of the school districts had decided to not sponsor wrestling this season
- many teams are still waiting for their school board to decide if they will wrestle
- because wrestling was pushed back due to PA guidelines, and there's been so much uncertainty, there are far fewer matches, and those leagues that are wrestling (with not all the teams) are having mini-tournaments, but trying to use less refs than is the norm
- at most high schools, one ref does the weigh-ins and the JV matches, then another ref does the Varsity matches. Several of the leagues have asked that only one ref do both this season
- the assignors and the refs are a tad frustrated, as schedules are a mess as a result of the aforementioned, plus the schools are using fewer refs between the combining of JV and V, the mini-tourneys, and the using less refs than usual at the tourneys
- you'd be surprised how dirty a ref shirt and pants can get while reffing a dual, and also how sweaty it can get for a ref. So it's always been great that the PIAA required all schools to provide a place where refs could shower and get changed after a match. This year, the PIAA granted an exemption on that requirement, and most school districts have indicated that refs have to arrive in uniform, and won't be able to shower or change afterwards, as they are not allowing the refs to use the changing room
- and youth wrestling is still a no-go
In New Jersey, things are also in flux. They aren't starting their season until March. Here are a few recent articles about the situation:
www.nj.com
www.nj.com
- in my area, some of the school districts had decided to not sponsor wrestling this season
- many teams are still waiting for their school board to decide if they will wrestle
- because wrestling was pushed back due to PA guidelines, and there's been so much uncertainty, there are far fewer matches, and those leagues that are wrestling (with not all the teams) are having mini-tournaments, but trying to use less refs than is the norm
- at most high schools, one ref does the weigh-ins and the JV matches, then another ref does the Varsity matches. Several of the leagues have asked that only one ref do both this season
- the assignors and the refs are a tad frustrated, as schedules are a mess as a result of the aforementioned, plus the schools are using fewer refs between the combining of JV and V, the mini-tourneys, and the using less refs than usual at the tourneys
- you'd be surprised how dirty a ref shirt and pants can get while reffing a dual, and also how sweaty it can get for a ref. So it's always been great that the PIAA required all schools to provide a place where refs could shower and get changed after a match. This year, the PIAA granted an exemption on that requirement, and most school districts have indicated that refs have to arrive in uniform, and won't be able to shower or change afterwards, as they are not allowing the refs to use the changing room
- and youth wrestling is still a no-go
In New Jersey, things are also in flux. They aren't starting their season until March. Here are a few recent articles about the situation:
NJSIAA wrestling tournament dates, format changes discussed as officials debate options amid pandemic
The state's wrestling coaches and the NJSIAA working behind the scenes to make individual tourney happen
Will there be individual wrestling championships in 2021? More clarity expected soon
A Jan. 21 meeting will be the next big step in determining whether the NJSIAA can provide wrestling championships.
