ADVERTISEMENT

2021-2023 Transfer Portal news

Status
Not open for further replies.
Agreed. We ran the west coast from Eureka, CA to Port Angelas, WA, basically Seattle. The Oregon coast is spectacular, like no place I’ve ever seen. Lots of egress to the beaches. Washington, eh. You have to work to get close to the water. But, all in all the Oregon Coast is something every person should be so privileged to have experience in their lifetime. One of my top tens.
I grew up in the North Bend/Coos Bay area and fully agree. The beach in Bandon is spectacular with all the rock formations. Gold Beach has a spectacular beach also. And the best thing, as you mentioned, is the the easy access along with the relative lack of beach goers.
 
Adding 27 scholarships to men's soccer sounds like a good plan to kill more college wrestling teams. That pesky little thing called Title IX.
Yeah, I certainly understand that it might appear that way, but the premise behind the point is that the NCAA is potentially holding all these sports back, not just the one I pointed out. If football has an 85 full schollie limit, wrestling should have a 34 full schollie limit. Same with women's wrestling. And ad nauseum on both the men's and women's sides for all teams. Which will negate any Title IX concerns. It won't kill anything, it will make it better.
 
Yeah, I certainly understand that it might appear that way, but the premise behind the point is that the NCAA is potentially holding all these sports back, not just the one I pointed out. If football has an 85 full schollie limit, wrestling should have a 34 full schollie limit. Same with women's wrestling. And ad nauseum on both the men's and women's sides for all teams. Which will negate any Title IX concerns. It won't kill anything, it will make it better.
How will it make it better? If schools were forced to do that they would start dropping sports that lose money right and left. Would adding all the ships to soccer bring more fans to the stands? Maybe a few, but so few that soccer would then be losing tons of money.
 
Ok… let’s parse this a little bit. Nah … let’s not because it is preposterous.

You actually believe that adding scholarships to soccer will somehow transform NCAA soccer into the EPL and all of the sudden make big bucks?

You want PSU and other college teams to pretend hockey is “profitable” because as long as you take $130 million off the top it kinda breaks even?

Slice it any way you want but 90% of college athletic programs operate in the red. And the only thing keeping them even remotely viable is football driven revenue. Washington State just this week issued a mandate to its entire athletic department to stop all non-essential expense: why? Because they are totally screwed by the TV contract impact occurring because USC and UCLA are joining the BIG.

You think that 9.9 schollies for wrestling is unfair because 25% of schollie football players don’t see the field until they are sophomores or juniors… fact is many wrestling programs can’t even afford 9.9 scholarships. Why? Because those schools don’t have 100k strong football attendance and a massive TV contract to pay their bills.

There are only 10 wrestling programs that average over 2500 fans per meet. Even at 2500 fans, the entire ticket revenue (not profit, just pure ticket sales) for an entire season wouldn’t pay for 2 schollies. But wrestling deserves more scholarships?

Financially (if it wasn’t for the financial impact of the incredible marketing and brand loyalty and alumni connection that sports brings) schools would actually be better served to cut all scholarships for wrestling and almost every other sport and give them out as academic scholarships. A math scholarship carries no additional cost - no extra coaches, facilities, insurance, etc.

Any wrestler or any other scholarship athlete outside of football/hoops is getting an enormous and largely unearned (by profit/loss math) gift.

Pretending otherwise is just ignoring the reality of sports economics in the US. You can think that an incredibly gifted classical concert pianist works as hard and is as talented and as entertaining as Taylor Swift, so should get paid the same. But it isn’t reality.
No, I don't believe adding schollies will somehow transform NCAA soccer into the EPL. But it very well could transform the MLS into better than the EPL. I mean, why wouldn't it? Where's the best baseball league in the world? In the U.S. Where's the best basketball league in the world? In the U.S. Where's the best hockey league in the world? In the U.S. It goes without saying where the best "American" football league is. Why shouldn't the best soccer league in the world be in the U.S.? It should.

I don't want "PSU... to pretend hockey is “profitable” because as long as you take $130 million off the top it kinda breaks even." I was open and clear that Terry's gift is the reason for that. You were the one who wrote "Yes mens hoops is profitable. Not a lot, but definitely positive." You know that's not even close to being true without Penn State's creative accounting. But you didn't mention it. Look, at least I was transparent. And there are some college hockey teams that are profitable on a straight accounting basis.

Many college athletics programs operate in the red because the numbers you are reading come from NCAA reports that treat athletics as a separate entity within the universities and completely ignore (at minimum) any tuition payments by student athletes. If every college department at every university was held to the same bar that athletics is, the red they are swimming in would make the athletic departments look great. Athletic departments are some of the most viable - financially as well as academically -- parts of any university. But "stupid" academicians hate that and will use every opportunity to cast athletics in a bad light. "Smart" academicians on the other hand understand the value athletics brings to a university. Know what university has the largest D-1 athletic department in this country? Harvard. You know the only conference in this country where every member resides in the Top 25 largest D-1 athletic departments? The Ivy League. Guess what they don't have? A TV contract.

Ticket revenue has nothing to do with scholarship availability. Heck, we'll use PSU as an example. You can look at Penn State's endowed scholarship lists and the aformentioned NCAA PSU report and see between NLC giving and endowed schollies that nut is covered. Ticket revenue is irrelevant. Wrestling can afford all the scholarships the NCAA will allow them because they are and would be funded by endowments and donations. So, saying ticket revenue wouldn't cover two schollies is meaningless.

As for your suggestion that schools would be better served by cutting athletic scholarships and giving them out as academic scholarships, that ship sailed and sunk. The Ivy League shows that is not only not the case, but 180 degrees from the truth. And if you want a more mainstream example -- which conference is better academically: the SEC or the B1G? I'll assume you agree it's the B1G😉. Well, guess which conference offers significantly more sports? Many SEC schools offer barely the minimum number of sports to qualify as D-1 schools. How's that working out for them?

Stating that "any wrestler or scholarship athlete outside of football/hoops is getting an enormous and largely unearned (by profit/loss math) gift" is ignoring the reality of college sports economics and academics in the US as noted above. The "gifts" may be enormous for some, but they are completely earned and in most cases also adding value to the NARP's of their respective schools (Non-Athletic Regular People), not the other way around.

As for your T Swift and concert pianist comparison, they're both getting paid enough to survive. That's all I'm suggesting -- that every student athlete get a full ride. NIL will take care of the T Swift's of the college athletic landscape.
 
How will it make it better? If schools were forced to do that they would start dropping sports that lose money right and left. Would adding all the ships to soccer bring more fans to the stands? Maybe a few, but so few that soccer would then be losing tons of money.
Uh, it gets better because more kids are incentivized to pursue those sports. Which creates more competition. Which raises the bar on quality and performance. Which makes the sport more exciting and gives every sport the opportunity to be the best it can be. Note: schools aren't "forced" to do it. Scholarship maximums are maximums. Schools can choose to use as many as they want (as they do currently). As for the losing money and ticket revenue thing, I'll refer you to the longer post (book, sorry!) I wrote above that goes into those in a little more detail.
 
No, I don't believe adding schollies will somehow transform NCAA soccer into the EPL. But it very well could transform the MLS into better than the EPL. I mean, why wouldn't it? Where's the best baseball league in the world? In the U.S. Where's the best basketball league in the world? In the U.S. Where's the best hockey league in the world? In the U.S. It goes without saying where the best "American" football league is. Why shouldn't the best soccer league in the world be in the U.S.? It should.

I don't want "PSU... to pretend hockey is “profitable” because as long as you take $130 million off the top it kinda breaks even." I was open and clear that Terry's gift is the reason for that. You were the one who wrote "Yes mens hoops is profitable. Not a lot, but definitely positive." You know that's not even close to being true without Penn State's creative accounting. But you didn't mention it. Look, at least I was transparent. And there are some college hockey teams that are profitable on a straight accounting basis.

Many college athletics programs operate in the red because the numbers you are reading come from NCAA reports that treat athletics as a separate entity within the universities and completely ignore (at minimum) any tuition payments by student athletes. If every college department at every university was held to the same bar that athletics is, the red they are swimming in would make the athletic departments look great. Athletic departments are some of the most viable - financially as well as academically -- parts of any university. But "stupid" academicians hate that and will use every opportunity to cast athletics in a bad light. "Smart" academicians on the other hand understand the value athletics brings to a university. Know what university has the largest D-1 athletic department in this country? Harvard. You know the only conference in this country where every member resides in the Top 25 largest D-1 athletic departments? The Ivy League. Guess what they don't have? A TV contract.

Ticket revenue has nothing to do with scholarship availability. Heck, we'll use PSU as an example. You can look at Penn State's endowed scholarship lists and the aformentioned NCAA PSU report and see between NLC giving and endowed schollies that nut is covered. Ticket revenue is irrelevant. Wrestling can afford all the scholarships the NCAA will allow them because they are and would be funded by endowments and donations. So, saying ticket revenue wouldn't cover two schollies is meaningless.

As for your suggestion that schools would be better served by cutting athletic scholarships and giving them out as academic scholarships, that ship sailed and sunk. The Ivy League shows that is not only not the case, but 180 degrees from the truth. And if you want a more mainstream example -- which conference is better academically: the SEC or the B1G? I'll assume you agree it's the B1G😉. Well, guess which conference offers significantly more sports? Many SEC schools offer barely the minimum number of sports to qualify as D-1 schools. How's that working out for them?

Stating that "any wrestler or scholarship athlete outside of football/hoops is getting an enormous and largely unearned (by profit/loss math) gift" is ignoring the reality of college sports economics and academics in the US as noted above. The "gifts" may be enormous for some, but they are completely earned and in most cases also adding value to the NARP's of their respective schools (Non-Athletic Regular People), not the other way around.

As for your T Swift and concert pianist comparison, they're both getting paid enough to survive. That's all I'm suggesting -- that every student athlete get a full ride. NIL will take care of the T Swift's of the college athletic landscape.
You’ve got to be shitting me to claim that any athlete needs to have a full ride to survive. Seems to me there are 39,000 students on campus without full rides who survive.

You can pretend all you want that the money is unlimited, but the facts are that they are not. And no one living anywhere but fantasy land knows it.
 
No, I don't believe adding schollies will somehow transform NCAA soccer into the EPL. But it very well could transform the MLS into better than the EPL. I mean, why wouldn't it? Where's the best baseball league in the world? In the U.S. Where's the best basketball league in the world? In the U.S. Where's the best hockey league in the world? In the U.S. It goes without saying where the best "American" football league is. Why shouldn't the best soccer league in the world be in the U.S.? It should.

I don't want "PSU... to pretend hockey is “profitable” because as long as you take $130 million off the top it kinda breaks even." I was open and clear that Terry's gift is the reason for that. You were the one who wrote "Yes mens hoops is profitable. Not a lot, but definitely positive." You know that's not even close to being true without Penn State's creative accounting. But you didn't mention it. Look, at least I was transparent. And there are some college hockey teams that are profitable on a straight accounting basis.

Many college athletics programs operate in the red because the numbers you are reading come from NCAA reports that treat athletics as a separate entity within the universities and completely ignore (at minimum) any tuition payments by student athletes. If every college department at every university was held to the same bar that athletics is, the red they are swimming in would make the athletic departments look great. Athletic departments are some of the most viable - financially as well as academically -- parts of any university. But "stupid" academicians hate that and will use every opportunity to cast athletics in a bad light. "Smart" academicians on the other hand understand the value athletics brings to a university. Know what university has the largest D-1 athletic department in this country? Harvard. You know the only conference in this country where every member resides in the Top 25 largest D-1 athletic departments? The Ivy League. Guess what they don't have? A TV contract.

Ticket revenue has nothing to do with scholarship availability. Heck, we'll use PSU as an example. You can look at Penn State's endowed scholarship lists and the aformentioned NCAA PSU report and see between NLC giving and endowed schollies that nut is covered. Ticket revenue is irrelevant. Wrestling can afford all the scholarships the NCAA will allow them because they are and would be funded by endowments and donations. So, saying ticket revenue wouldn't cover two schollies is meaningless.

As for your suggestion that schools would be better served by cutting athletic scholarships and giving them out as academic scholarships, that ship sailed and sunk. The Ivy League shows that is not only not the case, but 180 degrees from the truth. And if you want a more mainstream example -- which conference is better academically: the SEC or the B1G? I'll assume you agree it's the B1G😉. Well, guess which conference offers significantly more sports? Many SEC schools offer barely the minimum number of sports to qualify as D-1 schools. How's that working out for them?

Stating that "any wrestler or scholarship athlete outside of football/hoops is getting an enormous and largely unearned (by profit/loss math) gift" is ignoring the reality of college sports economics and academics in the US as noted above. The "gifts" may be enormous for some, but they are completely earned and in most cases also adding value to the NARP's of their respective schools (Non-Athletic Regular People), not the other way around.

As for your T Swift and concert pianist comparison, they're both getting paid enough to survive. That's all I'm suggesting -- that every student athlete get a full ride. NIL will take care of the T Swift's of the college athletic landscape.
Lol that you think colleges should fund more soccer scholarships so that it makes MLS better. Brilliant. Operating at a loss so let’s just spend more for the same product (yes, it would be the same product, all you would be doing is giving partial schollie guys full schollies).

The huge majority of EPL players don’t even go to college … baseball is the best parallel in the US (as is hockey in Canada)… the best players grow up playing the game and the majority move to pros without college.

Get back to me when you believe every theatre major should get a scholarship because it would make Broadway shows better.
 
Last edited:
You’ve got to be shitting me to claim that any athlete needs to have a full ride to survive. Seems to me there are 39,000 students on campus without full rides who survive.

You can pretend all you want that the money is unlimited, but the facts are that they are not. And no one living anywhere but fantasy land knows it.
Look, I get it. You don't want to discuss it or can't, so you pull the " it is preposterous" card, and "the facts" that you conveniently can't name. I didn't claim that an athlete needs to have a full ride to survive. I'm just suggesting they should get one. They earn it. And I'm not pretending money is unlimited (although where are the limits? you tell me.), just that folks look at the accounting and the reality. I offered proofs for my theories because those are the realities. Not looking at them doesn't make them go away, it just means those not looking are in your words living in fantasyland. But as I said, I get it. Most people don't have the time or inclination to look (and yes, those reports can be intimidating to novices), and enjoy the popular myths instead.

And for what it's worth as regards wrestling, (cuz we're in the Wrestling Room!)... Cael is on record as saying wrestling should have more scholarships. I don't know about you, but I think the man knows what he's talking about!
 
Lol that you think colleges should fund more soccer scholarships so that it makes MLS better. Brilliant. Operating at a loss so let’s just spend more for the same product (yes, it would be the same product, all you would be doing is giving partial schollie guys full schollies).

The huge majority of EPL players don’t even go to college … baseball is the best parallel in the US (as is hockey in Canada)… the best players grow up playing the game and the majority move to pros without college.

Get back to me when you believe every theatre major should get a scholarship because it would make Broadway shows better.
Most everything at universities "operates at a loss" so that point is moot. It certainly wouldn't be the same product. More schollies opens more interest and creates better players. I'm pretty sure I pointed that out. That's how the sport grows and gets better.

What the huge majority of EPL guys not going to college has to do with this is lost on me. So they have club systems. Uh, yeah. What's the MOST popular league in all of U.S. sports? The NFL. Usually 90 or so of the top 100 television broadcasts in this country every year are NFL games. That's what you want to replicate. What do the huge majority of NFL players do before going to the NFL? Play college ball. I'm suggesting a similar system could very well create similar results.
 
Last edited:
OK, we need to parse this just a bit: "There are almost no scholarship football players that are “bench riders”, unless you consider redshirts “bench riders”. I would suggest you have the cart in front of the horse. If you are on scholarship and you're not playing, then you are a "bench rider". If you haven't already burned a redshirt year, then yes, you will get a "redshirt" year for being a bench rider. But you're a bench rider first, and a redshirt after-the-fact. If you are good enough to play, you'll be playing and not riding the bench (and not taking a redshirt). I mean, you said it -- it's tough to crack the lineup.

As for the "almost no" scholarship players... at B1G away games only 74 guys can travel. If every one of them is on schollie there are 11 guys (13%) who not only qualify as "bench riders", but aren't even on the travel team. My belief is that 13% of the scholarship players is not "almost no." (Keep in mind that if even one "walk-on" travels, that percentage goes up).

And to take that one step further... here's a LINK to Penn State's 2022 football season participation chart. It shows that 89 guys saw the field for at least one play last season. But only 61 saw action in 7 or more games (slightly more than half the season). If we assume all 61 were scholarship players, then 28% of scholarship players were "bench riders" more than they weren't. More than a quarter of all scholarship players. Like I said, not "almost no" IMO. And again, any walk-ons in those numbers make those percentages higher.

Lastly, on the money thing -- yes, football raises the big bucks. Although at Penn State men's hockey is not only self-sufficient but it makes money for the athletic department (Again, a function of Terry's gift). But that's because the NCAA sets it up that way for football. Isn't it possible that there might be another sport that could raise similar money but the NCAA cuts its proverbial nuts off?

Soccer -- or what the rest of the world calls football (I mean, why do we call it football when it's often illegal for your foot to touch the ball?) -- can be played in stadiums of 100,000 people. In a lot of the rest of the world it's the most popular sport there is. Guys can make as much money or way more than NFL players. But the NCAA only allows men's soccer teams 9.9 scholarships. That's f**king ludicrous (Channeling Roy Kent).

Let's say the NCAA upped the scholarship limit for men's soccer to 37 and made them all full-rides. The same % of the starting lineup as football (I'm counting a long snapper, punter and kicker in football's starting lineup for a total of 25 guys). I can assure you there is at least one starter on Penn State's football team who is likely playing soccer if there were that many full rides. Then, interest in soccer grows exponentially (it's already big). And as outstanding young athletes migrate to soccer rather than football or other sports, the quality grows as well. More players get out onto the international stage, MLS gets better and better (many teams already play to packed houses in soccer-only stadiums -- hell, the NFL used one while waiting for SoFi), and the U.S. becomes a force in international competition. All feeding back to more people watching and paying (look at U.S. demographic shifts over the last 30 years).

Point is - yes, as the beloved (hack, hack) King/Emperor Emmert has said a thousand times - "If you like other college sports buy college football tickets" is true. But it's only true because that's the way the NCAA sets it up.

Anyway, just trying to add a small bit of context to your statement. Thanks!
LOL if your not playing them your bench ridin!
 
No, I don't believe adding schollies will somehow transform NCAA soccer into the EPL. But it very well could transform the MLS into better than the EPL. I mean, why wouldn't it? Where's the best baseball league in the world? In the U.S. Where's the best basketball league in the world? In the U.S. Where's the best hockey league in the world? In the U.S. It goes without saying where the best "American" football league is. Why shouldn't the best soccer league in the world be in the U.S.? It should.

I don't want "PSU... to pretend hockey is “profitable” because as long as you take $130 million off the top it kinda breaks even." I was open and clear that Terry's gift is the reason for that. You were the one who wrote "Yes mens hoops is profitable. Not a lot, but definitely positive." You know that's not even close to being true without Penn State's creative accounting. But you didn't mention it. Look, at least I was transparent. And there are some college hockey teams that are profitable on a straight accounting basis.

Many college athletics programs operate in the red because the numbers you are reading come from NCAA reports that treat athletics as a separate entity within the universities and completely ignore (at minimum) any tuition payments by student athletes. If every college department at every university was held to the same bar that athletics is, the red they are swimming in would make the athletic departments look great. Athletic departments are some of the most viable - financially as well as academically -- parts of any university. But "stupid" academicians hate that and will use every opportunity to cast athletics in a bad light. "Smart" academicians on the other hand understand the value athletics brings to a university. Know what university has the largest D-1 athletic department in this country? Harvard. You know the only conference in this country where every member resides in the Top 25 largest D-1 athletic departments? The Ivy League. Guess what they don't have? A TV contract.

Ticket revenue has nothing to do with scholarship availability. Heck, we'll use PSU as an example. You can look at Penn State's endowed scholarship lists and the aformentioned NCAA PSU report and see between NLC giving and endowed schollies that nut is covered. Ticket revenue is irrelevant. Wrestling can afford all the scholarships the NCAA will allow them because they are and would be funded by endowments and donations. So, saying ticket revenue wouldn't cover two schollies is meaningless.

As for your suggestion that schools would be better served by cutting athletic scholarships and giving them out as academic scholarships, that ship sailed and sunk. The Ivy League shows that is not only not the case, but 180 degrees from the truth. And if you want a more mainstream example -- which conference is better academically: the SEC or the B1G? I'll assume you agree it's the B1G😉. Well, guess which conference offers significantly more sports? Many SEC schools offer barely the minimum number of sports to qualify as D-1 schools. How's that working out for them?

Stating that "any wrestler or scholarship athlete outside of football/hoops is getting an enormous and largely unearned (by profit/loss math) gift" is ignoring the reality of college sports economics and academics in the US as noted above. The "gifts" may be enormous for some, but they are completely earned and in most cases also adding value to the NARP's of their respective schools (Non-Athletic Regular People), not the other way around.

As for your T Swift and concert pianist comparison, they're both getting paid enough to survive. That's all I'm suggesting -- that every student athlete get a full ride. NIL will take care of the T Swift's of the college athletic landscape.
You should probably just log off and enjoy the holiday weekend before you make yourself look even dumber.
 
Look, I get it. You don't want to discuss it or can't, so you pull the " it is preposterous" card, and "the facts" that you conveniently can't name. I didn't claim that an athlete needs to have a full ride to survive. I'm just suggesting they should get one. They earn it. And I'm not pretending money is unlimited (although where are the limits? you tell me.), just that folks look at the accounting and the reality. I offered proofs for my theories because those are the realities. Not looking at them doesn't make them go away, it just means those not looking are in your words living in fantasyland. But as I said, I get it. Most people don't have the time or inclination to look (and yes, those reports can be intimidating to novices), and enjoy the popular myths instead.

And for what it's worth as regards wrestling, (cuz we're in the Wrestling Room!)... Cael is on record as saying wrestling should have more scholarships. I don't know about you, but I think the man knows what he's talking about!
“What are the limits … you tell me”????

The limits are that there isn’t a freaking money tree at the Arboretum! You can be in denial all you want about what you think is possible in your fantasy land.

Who pays?

Higher tuition for non-athletes? Dumb on its face plus it would make schollies more expensive anyway.

Higher ticket prices? Actually PSU wresting could certainly charge more - but even being crazy and doubling prices wouldn’t pay for more than another schollie or two. And to pay for your extra 20 soccer scholarships you’d have to charge $100/game for soccer which doesn’t come close to selling out. And soccer gets more fans than most sports. Silly,

So who pays? Cut coaches salaries to pay for schollies? Other than James Franklin and Mike Rhoades (the 2 coaches coaching the full scholarship sports - probably not a coincidence) none would pay for more than 1 schollie even if you slashed it in half.

So who pays? Charitable donations? Even wrestling (arguably the 3rd most popular sport at PSU) is asking for money to go to NIL not to scholarship funds.

So who pays? TV? BTN is the most successful League devoted channel in US (w SEC network I assume) but they aren’t a charity and I am damn sure BIG is wringing out every last dollar already.

So where is the money coming from? Who are you taking it from? Or are you just planning to harvest it from the mi eye tree?

Who pays?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sullivan and Ski
Disagree.
170873f8-e38d-4503-a039-ffcb0c5839a2_text.gif
 
  • Like
Reactions: donboy6499
Non impact guy… but someone is out between Ayala and Teske. My have the Iowa lower weights regressed.
Teske is a SR.

This is more a question for 2024 and beyond. Cruz is likely a career 125. Does Ayala move up to 133? If so, Ybarra and Schriever have a problem. If not, then barring injury Cruz might only start 1 year.
 
Uh, it gets better because more kids are incentivized to pursue those sports. Which creates more competition. Which raises the bar on quality and performance. Which makes the sport more exciting and gives every sport the opportunity to be the best it can be. Note: schools aren't "forced" to do it. Scholarship maximums are maximums. Schools can choose to use as many as they want (as they do currently). As for the losing money and ticket revenue thing, I'll refer you to the longer post (book, sorry!) I wrote above that goes into those in a little more detail.
I follow you logic. Financial scenario's aside, more kids playing with hopes to make it big like basketball. The financial side can't be ignored though unless we're all going to get free education
 
Two years left?
Looks that way.

Graduated prep school in 2019. Redshirted first year (2019-20); 2020-21 was free Covid year; burned one year of eligibility in 2021-22 and another in 2022-23.

So two years remaining, by my count.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mcpat
He wrestled Figueroa really tough at Cliff Keen, he almost beat him in SV.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT