I never understand the generational talent line. It’s so nebulous. Is it supposed to mean best of his generation? Even if he won four I don’t think he had a better career than Yianni.
An unfair assessment of Spencer's Career?
- Thread starter GogglesPaizano
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It’s a crazy word to begin with, but pairing it with “talent” is next level. Especially when you are talking about wrestlers that grew up being trained by the best coaches at the best clubs. At what point is great talent more a product of great coaching?
Mark Schultz won three NCAA titles, Olympic gold and World gold having started wrestling as a junior in high school. (He was an elite gymnast until then.). If you want to call him generationally talented, I’ll accept it.
Don’t forget all those times he was put on his back and got pinned.
Honestly, David Taylor was and is better than Spencer Lee and won only 2 times.
He would have been better, but no place to wrestle. Behind either Jason or Cenzo. His last couple seasons Mark and Carter, I suppose if he is better maybe he collects a couple 174 championships.
Reminds me of my dear Raquel. May she rest in peace.
Watched buster bob back in the day. Sad how that all turned out. Used to love watching that sarvas kid wrestle as well I worked for his dad for a minute laying block
I think what needs to happen is for there to be a definition of generational. What does that mean generational? That kids born between certain years all being from the same generation?
If Lee’s injuries are as serious as the Iowa fans claim, I think he would be wise to rethink his future plans. I’ve never heard anything about his academic performance, but he may have to start down a different path rather than relying on his athletic ability. Remember what happened to Ki Jana Carter? He never got to the level everyone expected because of injuries. Lee might find himself in the same boat.
Great point. No way HS or College Spencer better than Kolat who was only a 2x er who overcame adversity to lead a service team.
Spencer was (is?) immensely talented and had a great college career. 98-6 and 3 NCAA titles is amazing.
He also doesn't crack the top 5 PSU wrestlers of all-time. Merely by record and NCAA accomplishments, he's behind Nolf, Nickal, Retherford, Ruth, Brooks, and Starocci. Taylor is a toss-up, because I put a lot of stock into NCAA titles. But of course, your mileage may vary.
He also doesn't crack the top 5 PSU wrestlers of all-time. Merely by record and NCAA accomplishments, he's behind Nolf, Nickal, Retherford, Ruth, Brooks, and Starocci. Taylor is a toss-up, because I put a lot of stock into NCAA titles. But of course, your mileage may vary.
Spencer Lee is one of many great wrestlers we have been able to watch this century. I'm not big into comparing guys accross multiple generations as the sport and situations change too much. I would put him firmly in my top 20 list in the last 23 years, and probably closer to number 10 than number 20. I would have a few 2 time champions in this list (Steveson,Metcalf,Taylor) a host of 3 timers, and of course the 4 timers. I may work on my list (not that anybody cares), but it is fun to see where people rank guys. We all have our favorites. I probably rank Nolf higher than most people would rank him, but he is still my favorite guy I have watched since Cael. Where will Carter rank if he decides to finish the deal and win 5 titles? He is in my top 20 already and has two years left. He would be hard to argue against if he runs the table from here and wins two more titles.
agree, hard combine categories of 'results' vs talent. The latter impacted by injuries, bad calls, unfortunate events (like COVID cancelling ncaa's)
I hope he does. It will be interesting to see how he does after a 2-year layoff from Free Style. He and Gilman meeting at final X would make great theater.
His tank and neutral offense don't appear to be what they were a few years ago ... I guess we'll see.
I think the generational description can be put to rest now. Spencer Lee is an incredible talent who had an incredible career. He's a 3X NCAA champ and a 2X Hodge winner. He is in tier two with other 3X NCAA champs. And many of those 3X NCAA champs have a better resume in college than Spencer Lee. There is no shame in that. He's elite and nobody will ever be able to take any of his accomplishments away from him.
Everyone feels so bad for Spencer Lee because he didn't win four titles. I don't feel any worse for Spencer Lee than I do anyone else that didn't win an NCAA title this year. Somebody has to lose and Spencer Lee has crushed the dreams of how many people at the tournament over the years? People feel bad for him because he has had injuries. I feel bad for him but no worse than any other wrestler that has had to deal with injuries that have affected their ability to wrestle. He isn't some special case that needs our pity. He's an insanely accomplished wrestler who has won more than all but a handful people in NCAA wrestling history. I applaud all that he has accomplished but I certainly don't pity Spencer Lee in the slightest .
Everyone feels so bad for Spencer Lee because he didn't win four titles. I don't feel any worse for Spencer Lee than I do anyone else that didn't win an NCAA title this year. Somebody has to lose and Spencer Lee has crushed the dreams of how many people at the tournament over the years? People feel bad for him because he has had injuries. I feel bad for him but no worse than any other wrestler that has had to deal with injuries that have affected their ability to wrestle. He isn't some special case that needs our pity. He's an insanely accomplished wrestler who has won more than all but a handful people in NCAA wrestling history. I applaud all that he has accomplished but I certainly don't pity Spencer Lee in the slightest .
Ah, nowadays, the Queen doesn't even need balls to be King.
To paraphrase Jordan Burroughs, "For me to fulfill my dream, I have to crush his."
All the talk about "generational talent"...I'd encourage everyone to take a trip through Zain's wrestlestat page.
I know this isn't breaking news or anything, but his post redshirt run is in-f***ing-credible. Across 92 matches, zero losses, 75% early stoppages, about 30% first period stoppages.
Spencer Lee is a great great wrestler. One of the best I've ever seen. But neither his performance nor dominance is unprecedented.
I know this isn't breaking news or anything, but his post redshirt run is in-f***ing-credible. Across 92 matches, zero losses, 75% early stoppages, about 30% first period stoppages.
Spencer Lee is a great great wrestler. One of the best I've ever seen. But neither his performance nor dominance is unprecedented.
This.
Why is failing to win a 4th more crushing than the wrestler who did everything in his power to win one and failed to do so?
Staying with Iowa, was Desanto less crushed than Lee? Did you see Desanto on that restart in the semifinals after RBY had taken him down late in the 3rd? I’ll remember that forever. I genuinely felt bad for him. Showed it to my wife, saying something to the effect of look how much this match mattered to him.
And that’s despite my guy on my team beating their guy on their team and ADS even being the sport’s heel at the time.
Amen to that. I remember when true frosh Nico knocked off Senior Zach Sanders in the quarters. Sanders was devastated laying on the mat covering his face. But guess what, he wrestled back for 3rd. That is what a wrestler should do and I admire him for his effort.
agree. Not Spencer related, but this is also why I don't feel too bad for those 'professional' athletes bringing in millions...
Yeah, I just checked. He won US nationals 4 years ago. 2019 would have been the summer after his Soph year.
There's a nice video on Youtube with Spencer and Caitlin Clark.. kind of interviewing themselves using questions from fans. They both do a nice job.
And... If you haven't seen Caitlin Clark play basketball.... she's must see.
GOAT Talk – Caitlin Clark and Spencer Lee
And... If you haven't seen Caitlin Clark play basketball.... she's must see.
GOAT Talk – Caitlin Clark and Spencer Lee
Apparently, questioning the "generational talent" moniker for Spencer Lee can get you banned from the cesspool.
Don't ask me how I know that.
You told them Spencer wasn't trying against Ramos?
I threatened them with lawyers.
It's clear you have a deep appreciation for Spencer Lee's wrestling career and have some valid points about his journey. Life can be unfair, and it's natural to wonder what could have been. It's interesting to speculate how things might have turned out if he had made different choices.
Speaking of choices, I've been thinking about switching careers myself. Recently, I came across one post called how to become an electrician Enroll in a Trade School. So, my point is that it might be worth considering if you're looking for a change.
Anyway, back to Spencer Lee. It's fascinating to reflect on the impact that different factors can have on an athlete's career. Sometimes the path not taken can leave us with a sense of what could have been. Hopefully, Spencer Lee will find fulfillment and success in whatever he pursues next.
Speaking of choices, I've been thinking about switching careers myself. Recently, I came across one post called how to become an electrician Enroll in a Trade School. So, my point is that it might be worth considering if you're looking for a change.
Anyway, back to Spencer Lee. It's fascinating to reflect on the impact that different factors can have on an athlete's career. Sometimes the path not taken can leave us with a sense of what could have been. Hopefully, Spencer Lee will find fulfillment and success in whatever he pursues next.
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Also, if I'm not mistaken, even Gable didn't start wrestling until he was 12-14. It's been a while since I read a biography of him, so I don't recall the exact age. basically, he loved to swim, but found he didn't have a "swimmer's body."
Actually, in general, Gable would himself admit he was far from the best "athlete" or the most "talented" guy to ever wrestle. And if athleticism includes being predisposed towards fewer injuries, Gable had a number of massive injuries over his career. I remember a story about him watching a Hawkeye struggle to wrestle through some minor pain and privately saying, "I've been in pain my whole damn life."
I have a friend who's relatively (as in, the last 5 years) new to wrestling, but is a fast learner. He is adamant that a great heavyweight is more impressive than a great lightweight accounting for the differences in size and strength.
I don't know that I agree, but I'm happy to believe that Anthony Cassar was "better" than Spencer Lee. Because not only was healthy Cassar amazing, but he beat Steveson twice. And Gable Steveson is basically a legend already.
Carter's NFL career was downright tragic. He was perfectly healthy all through college, but took one bad step at the crappy Cincinnati astroturf, and it was all downhill from there.
As for 1990s PSU tailbacks, the real question is how Curtis Enis ended up a bust.
Enis was even better than Carter. The 1996-97 OLs were okay, but nowhere near as good as 1994-95, which were just flat out incredible. Kyle Brady (1994) is also the greatest blocking tight end ever - Carter had him, but Enis didn't. And Mike McQueary was an atrocious passer throwing to mostly meh receivers. Enis carried that team. In college, he was every bit as good as, say, Eddie George. Probably better. I'm still perplexed how he didn't do much of anything in the pros.
David Taylor was 134-3. 2 of his losses happened to come in the NCAA finals, with one being an annoying fluke. The other 2 losses just happened to have been to a 4x NCAA champion and future World gold medalist (and Olympic bronze) who is unquestionably one of the best US wrestlers ever. And Taylor lost those 2 matches to Dake by a combined 2 points.
There is zero question that Spencer Lee's career is behind Taylor's.
The additional tragedy of Ki-Jana Carter’s NFL career was: he contractually agreed to a pay cut if Cincy installed grass or he got traded to a grass team.
And then the turf monster got his knee in his rookie preseason.
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