Any update on Nolf??? Anyone with insider info?

[Lyco1990]

Hopefully you are being facetious here. I am not talking about just anybody. I'm talking about a young man coming off what appeared to be a very substantial knee injury. Obviously there's a difference, and your point is completely irrelevant.

While I agree with you most of the time... my question is... With all the antiPSU rhetoric and the NCAA unpredictability, why give them (NCAA) a chance to make a point unless it is necessary? If he is not ready absolutely, if he is medically cleared not so much. I like to control my own fate. I’m not saying the whole tournament, 2 wins would do it.

 

[Cowbell Man]

Would anyone mind if I clear something up right now and maybe we don’t mention it again?

At Large. Jason Nolf WILL get one. That’s 100%. Not 99.9 but 100%. There is no wrestler with higher qualifications. If he defaults and MFF the second match he will still be the highest ranking wrestler at 157 using the criteria to determine at-large.

This is not my opinion or anyone else’s opinion. This is a fact.

The only consideration for Bigs is how many matches to give him. With no knowledge of the recovery process...even if he felt 100 percent, he gets two matches and....see ya. Maybe one. That is my opinion.

 

[Lyco1990]

Who cares if he wants to compete at B10s? That's why the coaches are there -- to make adult decisions.

If he's healthy -- with no risk of re-injury -- then fine.

But if there's a risk of re-injury, then wrestling him at B10s would be moronic.

Jefe, same as last post... is he guaranteed an at large? I’m not sure.

 

[El-Jefe]

Jefe, same as last post... is he guaranteed an at large? I’m not sure.

Cowbell's post aside: which 4 wrestlers would get an at large ahead of him?

 

[Lyco1990]

Would anyone mind if I clear something up right now and maybe we don’t mention it again?

At Large. Jason Nolf WILL get one. That’s 100%. Not 99.9 but 100%. There is no wrestler with higher qualifications. If he defaults and MFF the second match he will still be the highest ranking wrestler at 157 using the criteria to determine at-large.

This is not my opinion or anyone else’s opinion. This is a fact.

The only consideration for Bigs is how many matches to give him. With no knowledge of the recovery process...even if he felt , he gets two matches and....see ya. Maybe one. That is my opinion.

Wow, is this a rule or past interpretation? Roar help clarify

Would anyone mind if I clear something up right now and maybe we don’t mention it again?

At Large. Jason Nolf WILL get one. That’s 100%. Not 99.9 but 100%. There is no wrestler with higher qualifications. If he defaults and MFF the second match he will still be the highest ranking wrestler at 157 using the criteria to determine at-large.

This is not my opinion or anyone else’s opinion. This is a fact.

Wonderful, what is the NCAA rules section so I can feel better.

 

[Bob_Anderson]

Wow, is this a rule or past interpretation? Roar help clarify

It's basically the same situation as Suriano last year, except Nolf's resume is even better.

 

[Cowbell Man]

Wow, is this a rule or past interpretation? Roar help clarify

Don’t trust me, huh? Lol. I’ll let roar explain. But you could just let me know what wrestler is, or Could possibly be ranked higher.

It is based on win percentage, quality wins, head to head....others. Just let me know who would be first on that list if not Jason.

 

[Afw6006]

I think some people are missing the point. It's not that B1Gs are meaningless in every circumstance. They are meaningless when you are Jason Nolf and your seeding at NCAAs makes no difference because you are at a level or 2 above everyone else. It all depends on the health of his knee. Is it a good idea to wrestle in B1Gs when his knee is 70% and risk aggravating it and going into NCAAs with his knee at 50% or resting and hoping that extra time gets his knee to 90%+?

 

[Lyco1990]

Cowbell's post aside: which 4 wrestlers would get an at large ahead of him?

Don’t trust me, huh? Lol. I’ll let roar explain. But you could just let me know what wrestler is, or Could possibly be ranked higher.

Ah... you are missing my point. I do not trust the decision makers. 100% is kinda a high bar, so it is clearly stated and can’t be interpreted any other way. Great.

 

[psumain]

Good article on PCL tear rehab
http://www.orthoillinois.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Non-OperativePCLTear.pdf

 

[Cowbell Man]

Ah... you are missing my point. I do not trust the decision makers. 100% is kinda a high bar, so it is clearly stated and can’t be interpreted any other way. Great.

I am missing your point then Lyco. You have questioned Jason possibly getting an at large. You are not the only one.

There is NO other wrestler more qualified. If there are 4 at large selections available....there would have to be 4 more qualified. Not possible. Not even possible to have 1 more qualified. The criteria is there. Factual.

 

[El-Jefe]

Wow, is this a rule or past interpretation? Roar help clarify

Copying directly from p. 13 of the NCAA 2018 Pre-Championships Manual
http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2018DIMWR_PreChamps_Manual_20170907.pdf


On March 7, wrestlers in each weight class will receive an updated Win %, RPI and coaches’ ranking that includes all competition through the qualifying events. Wrestlers who meet or exceed any two of the following criteria will be labeled “Bronze Standard”:
● .700 Win %
● Top 33 RPI
● Top 33 CR
● .700 winning percentage against all competition
● One win against a wrestler receiving automatic qualification via an earned position (preallocated)
● Qualifying event placement one below automatic qualification

Only Bronze Standard wrestlers will be eligible for selection as at-large qualifiers. A wrestler must have participated in his respective conference or regional qualifying tournament in order to be considered for at-large selection to the championships. The NCAA Wrestling Committee will use the following weighted criteria, in priority order, to evaluate the Bronze Standard wrestlers:
● Head-to-head competition — 25 percent
● Quality wins — 20 percent
● Coaches ranking — 15 percent
● Results against common opponents — 10 percent
● RPI — 10 percent
● Qualifying event placement — 10 percent
● Win percentage — 10 percent

*Note: Coaches’ Ranking — A wrestler must have wrestled five matches at the championships weight class to be eligible to be ranked in that weight class. He also must have wrestled at least one match in the 30 days preceding each ranking period in the respective weight class. If a wrestler does not meet each of these two criteria, he will be removed from the ranking list for that ranking period.

====================================================

To review those:
- Bronze Standard: Jason needs to meet 2 of those criteria and has already met 5. He also will meet the 6th -- he cannot finish more than 1 spot below auto qualifying if B10 gets 8 spots at 157. As soon as he competes or "competes" at B10s, he will have satisfied Bronze.
- Coaches Poll: once he competes or "competes" at B10s, he will have officially competed within 30 days of the March 7 poll and thus will be ranked.
- At Large Selection criteria: Jason will have the top score in each criterion with the possible exception of qualifying event placement.

He's getting an at large. Done deal. Just has to step on the mat in Lansing.

 

[aalion]

I think some people are missing the point. It's not that B1Gs are meaningless in every circumstance. They are meaningless when you are Jason Nolf and your seeding at NCAAs makes no difference because you are at a level or 2 above everyone else. It all depends on the health of his knee. Is it a good idea to wrestle in B1Gs when his knee is 70% and risk aggravating it and going into NCAAs with his knee at 50% or resting and hoping that extra time gets his knee to 90%+?

I don't think they are meaningless to Jason Nolf. If the Buffalo dual was not meaningless to Jason Nolf (and it wasn't), then the BIGs are not meaningless to Jason Nolf. He will wrestle.

 

[RoarLions1]

Cowbell, E-J, and others have already answered the "Jason's a lock" question if he FFT's his 1st two bouts at B1G's.

It would be nice to get some live action (not practice room stuff) for Jason. The coaches have shown over the years that they have a "keep your eye on the prize" mentality...they'll do the right thing.

 

[Lyco1990]

Copying directly from p. 13 of the NCAA 2018 Pre-Championships Manual
http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2018DIMWR_PreChamps_Manual_20170907.pdf


On March 7, wrestlers in each weight class will receive an updated Win %, RPI and coaches’ ranking that includes all competition through the qualifying events. Wrestlers who meet or exceed any two of the following criteria will be labeled “Bronze Standard”:
● .700 Win %
● Top 33 RPI
● Top 33 CR
● .700 winning percentage against all competition
● One win against a wrestler receiving automatic qualification via an earned position (preallocated)
● Qualifying event placement one below automatic qualification

Only Bronze Standard wrestlers will be eligible for selection as at-large qualifiers. A wrestler must have participated in his respective conference or regional qualifying tournament in order to be considered for at-large selection to the championships. The NCAA Wrestling Committee will use the following weighted criteria, in priority order, to evaluate the Bronze Standard wrestlers:
● Head-to-head competition — 25 percent
● Quality wins — 20 percent
● Coaches ranking — 15 percent
● Results against common opponents — 10 percent
● RPI — 10 percent
● Qualifying event placement — 10 percent
● Win percentage — 10 percent

*Note: Coaches’ Ranking — A wrestler must have wrestled five matches at the championships weight class to be eligible to be ranked in that weight class. He also must have wrestled at least one match in the 30 days preceding each ranking period in the respective weight class. If a wrestler does not meet each of these two criteria, he will be removed from the ranking list for that ranking period.

====================================================

To review those:
- Bronze Standard: Jason needs to meet 2 of those criteria and has already met 5. He also will meet the 6th -- he cannot finish more than 1 spot below auto qualifying if B10 gets 8 spots at 157. As soon as he competes or "competes" at B10s, he will have satisfied Bronze.
- Coaches Poll: once he competes or "competes" at B10s, he will have officially competed within 30 days of the March 7 poll and thus will be ranked.
- At Large Selection criteria: Jason will have the top score in each criterion with the possible exception of qualifying event placement.

He's getting an at large. Done deal. Just has to step on the mat in Lansing.

I give...

 

[royboy]

Good article on PCL tear rehab
http://www.orthoillinois.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Non-OperativePCLTear.pdf

I can picture Jason over-doing the rehab and exercises, but I expect this thought has occurred to the coaches and medical personnel, too. Trust in Jason and the PSU staff on this one.

 

[lockhavenlion3]

Who cares if he wants to compete at B10s? That's why the coaches are there -- to make adult decisions.

If he's healthy -- with no risk of re-injury -- then fine.

But if there's a risk of re-injury, then wrestling him at B10s would be moronic.

while i agree with you, any time you step on a mat there is a risk of injury.

 

[NittanyChris]

I trust the coaches to make the right call. For the sake of discussion, let me throw out a scenario that I hope better illustrates my point. Numbers I'm throwing out are just for discussion.

1. IF Jason's knee is at 75% healthy for Bigs and he has, let's say a small chance, 10% even, of reinjuring it so he is severely compromised at Nationals, and he wants to wrestle, do you let him go?

2. OR if you say he can't wrestle in the above scenario, he doesn't go at Bigs and gets 2 more weeks of rest and rehab to prepare for Nationals and his knee could get to 90% healthy for Nationals...what is the right call?

I would vote for Scenario 2.

 

[Lyco1990]

I am missing your point then Lyco. You have questioned Jason possibly getting an at large. You are not the only one.

There is NO other wrestler more qualified. If there are 4 at large selections available....there would have to be 4 more qualified. Not possible. Not even possible to have 1 more qualified. The criteria is there. Factual.

Sorry, coming across wrong. I trust you and Roar and most knowledgeable posters. I dont trust the NCAA. There are not better four wrestlers in all the weight classes. I deal with bureaucrats changing interpretations all the time so I’m alway professionally sceptical.

 

[BruceK-PSU83]

B1Gs are important to most wrestlers for NCAA seedings. When guys like Nolf are healthy, seeding is pointless. He would bonus the field from the 33 seed. Nevills is a great example of how B1Gs could help him. If he takes 3rd, he can avoid Snyder and Coon until the semis.

Isn't that also true with a 4th, 5th, or 6th seed?

 

[ClarkstonMark]

Would anyone mind if I clear something up right now and maybe we don’t mention it again?

At Large. Jason Nolf WILL get one. That’s 100%. Not 99.9 but 100%. There is no wrestler with higher qualifications. If he defaults and MFF the second match he will still be the highest ranking wrestler at 157 using the criteria to determine at-large.

This is not my opinion or anyone else’s opinion. This is a fact.

The only consideration for Bigs is how many matches to give him. With no knowledge of the recovery process...even if he felt 100 percent, he gets two matches and....see ya. Maybe one. That is my opinion.

my opinion is if he defaults and then Mff's, he should not be at NCAA's. Last year Suriano took a spot from a wrestler who was able to compete.
If Nolf can't compete at B10's then his season is over

 

[El-Jefe]

Sorry, coming across wrong. I trust you and Roar and most knowledgeable posters. I dont trust the NCAA. There are not better four wrestlers in all the weight classes. I deal with bureaucrats changing interpretations all the time so I’m alway professionally sceptical.

The selection criteria are very precise. There won't be any monkeying around with that.

Seeding might be another matter. And guess who is on the committee and didn't recuse himself last year either ...

That said, there's gonna be a real stink if Jason doesn't get a very high seed. It's not just about him -- it's also about guys who would then have to face him earlier than expected.

 

[BruceK-PSU83]

I don’t think it’s been mentioned yet... but one other thing Cael said about Nolf at the pre-match social on Sunday... at first he said they’d like him to wrestle a couple matches at B1G’s... then a little later he said they’ll see how things go... two, maybe three matches. These are not exact quotes, obviously.

Also said that Jason wanted to go against Buffalo.

No one is even the least bit skeptical of those statements?

 

[El-Jefe]

my opinion is if he defaults and then Mff's, he should not be at NCAA's. Last year Suriano took a spot from a wrestler who was able to compete.
If Nolf can't compete at B10's then his season is over

Suriano took a spot from the 34th wrestler -- a guy who had the opportunity to qualify at his conference tournament but failed, and was not among the next 4 best guys.

 

[PSUcup1]

So if Jason wrestles his opening bout at B10s and wins. Can he then MFF out of the remainder of the tournament and compete at NCAAs?

As opposed to having to walk out and then stop match (like Suriano had to do)?


Thanks

When I asked this question. It was really in reference to medical forfeit as opposed to defaulting.

I knew Jason would get an at large bid, just didn’t know if he had to still physically set foot on the mat, start the match and default even if he did wrestle one full match

 

[ClarkstonMark]

Cowbell's post aside: which 4 wrestlers would get an at large ahead of him?

the ones that are healthy enough to wrestle.

 

[El-Jefe]

the ones that are healthy enough to wrestle.

Nope, sorry, don't get to ignore the rules to suit our personal preferences. Change them in the offseason. Until then, the rules are the rules.

 

[ClarkstonMark]

Suriano took a spot from the 34th wrestler -- a guy who had the opportunity to qualify at his conference tournament but failed, and was not among the next 4 best guys.

yes I know that, which makes it a tough decision.. but suriano could't wrestle, and #34 could. At some point you have to step up and do the right thing.
I realize this is a polarizing issue, especially with a PSU kid like Nolf.
But I stand by my opinion - either wrestle at B10s or sit out NCAAs

 

[ClarkstonMark]

Nope, sorry, don't get to ignore the rules to suit our personal preferences. Change them in the offseason. Until then, the rules are the rules.

Ya I am fine with that - the rule should be changed

 

[PSUer1989]

I think folks are arguing just to argue. I imagine people agree if he is not fully healthy, sit him. If he is not at increased risk of worsening his injury, let him wrestle.
Edit: Most people- Not Clarkston... just finished the complete thread

 

[El-Jefe]

Ya I am fine with that - the rule should be changed

I hear you and don't disagree.

I'm also not sure it's possible to do that effectively, and without punishing guys who aren't trying to find a loophole. I wouldn't want a rule that says you can't go to nationals because you legitimately used up all your injury time for something that can heal in 2 weeks, or because you suffered a mild concussion at B10s and defaulted for precautionary purposes but are good to go for nationals, or the like.

If there were some kind of minimum match time, there's no way to prevent one of those situations from happening earlier. Also, some guys who really shouldn't compete in a full match might be able to block and stall their way to that time limit and then default anyway. (Chris Perry could probably have done it for a full 7 minutes, multiple times.)

Maybe someone smarter than me has a solution that might work without being gamed or punish the wrong people. I just don't know what it would be.

 

[RoarLions1]

No matter what the rules, someone will argue them. Guess I'm in the camp that likes the current rules. A couple more weeks of treatment for a soft-tissue injury may be enough to get a wrestler healthy and able to wrestle at NCAA's.

It's only one case, but Hunter Stieber won two bouts in 2015 at B1G's then medical FFT'd his next two to finish 6th. At NCAA's, he went 0-2, not finishing his 2nd bout. Happens...injuries stink. Not the same, I know, though he was but a shell of his former AA self, maybe he should have left that kid at #34 go?

 

[aalion]

yes I know that, which makes it a tough decision.. but suriano could't wrestle, and #34 could. At some point you have to step up and do the right thing.
I realize this is a polarizing issue, especially with a PSU kid like Nolf.
But I stand by my opinion - either wrestle at B10s or sit out NCAAs

I hear you and don't disagree.

I'm also not sure it's possible to do that effectively, and without punishing guys who aren't trying to find a loophole. I wouldn't want a rule that says you can't go to nationals because you legitimately used up all your injury time for something that can heal in 2 weeks, or because you suffered a mild concussion at B10s and defaulted for precautionary purposes but are good to go for nationals, or the like.

If there were some kind of minimum match time, there's no way to prevent one of those situations from happening earlier. Also, some guys who really shouldn't compete in a full match might be able to block and stall their way to that time limit and then default anyway. (Chris Perry could probably have done it for a full 7 minutes, multiple times.)

Maybe someone smarter than me has a solution that might work without being gamed or punish the wrong people. I just don't know what it would be.

I started typing about the exact same thing... would a wrestler have to finish BIGs to make NCAAs? Finish 1 match? What if a healthy wrestler calls for injury time - would he and the coaches be making a real time decision along the lines of "if he quits now, he is out for NCAAs". Is that a good idea?

 

[Cowbell Man]

I hear you and don't disagree.

I'm also not sure it's possible to do that effectively, and without punishing guys who aren't trying to find a loophole. I wouldn't want a rule that says you can't go to nationals because you legitimately used up all your injury time for something that can heal in 2 weeks, or because you suffered a mild concussion at B10s and defaulted for precautionary purposes but are good to go for nationals, or the like.

If there were some kind of minimum match time, there's no way to prevent one of those situations from happening earlier. Also, some guys who really shouldn't compete in a full match might be able to block and stall their way to that time limit and then default anyway. (Chris Perry could probably have done it for a full 7 minutes, multiple times.)

Maybe someone smarter than me has a solution that might work without being gamed or punish the wrong people. I just don't know what it would be.

I agree and simply do not see how it is more fair to the 34th best wrestler in a field of 75 to deny the best wrestlers a chance to be...the best. Suriano is an abberation....ended up not being able to wrestle at all. Most have a fighting chance.

And I am quite sure a broken ankle Suriano would have bested whoever could have wrestled in his place last year. Every time.

 

[El-Jefe]

I agree and simply do not see how it is more fair to the 34th best wrestler in a field of 75 to deny the best wrestlers a chance to be...the best. Suriano is an abberation....ended up not being able to wrestle at all. Most have a fighting chance.

And I am quite sure a broken ankle Suriano would have bested whoever could have wrestled in his place last year. Every time.

Just imagine the number of fake challenges and ref discussions Tan Tom would initiate to get his guy thru a match at B10s, to get him into nationals.

Could time those matches with a sundial.

 

[liex26]

The good news was Nolf was jogging on the mat Sunday, brace or not, that is an excellent sign. I would not be surprised if Nolf does not wrestle at B1G's, obviously the prize is NCAA's. Nobody remembers that Ohio State won B1G's last year.

I fully expect him to wrestle at nationals, the knee can be braced allowing him to wrestle. Plenty of examples of guys wrestling with torn ACL's and doing well. With Suriano last year, really tough to brace an ankle and allowing any mobility.

I absolutely remember.
You obviously remember.
I bet you the team remembers as well.

The end goal for sure is Cleveland, but I'm going to Lansing to see one of the toughest tournament this sport has to offer. It most certainly does matter.

Even with Nolf in the lineup the B1G championship is probably more difficult than NCAAs for PSU. That's with NCAAs in tOSU's back yard.

 

[a_mshaffer]

I think folks are arguing just to argue. I imagine people agree if he is not fully healthy, sit him. If he is not at increased risk of worsening his injury, let him wrestle.
Edit: Most people- Not Clarkston... just finished the complete thread

..and speculate just to speculate. If anyone really knows the extent of the injury and how it is impacting him now, then please come forward as I would love to weigh in.

 

[BruceK-PSU83]

..and speculate just to speculate. If anyone really knows the extent of the injury and how it is impacting him now, then please come forward as I would love to weigh in.

I expect you are about to be disappointed. Anyone who really has that info isn't going to make it public.

 

[PSUeng]

Just imagine the number of fake challenges and ref discussions Tan Tom would initiate to get his guy thru a match at B10s, to get him into nationals.

Could time those matches with a sundial.

If you say he has to wrestle. What if Jason wrestled and lost both. Would he get an at large? Yes. It would be stupid to have him stall out or wrestle from his knees, or worst yet flop and get pinned. Why make guys of his caliber even wrestle, if they get in with no effort?

 

[a_mshaffer]

I expect you are about to be disappointed. Anyone who really has that info isn't going to make it public.

you missed the sarcasm...