Consider how bad the QB recruiting & coaching has been
- Thread starter Marylovesthelions
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After thinking about this for a while, and with the understanding that I do not think I'm smarter than the coaches,!I still cannot believe anyone thought Villeaux was the 3rd stringer against Iowa when Clifford went down. But our boys fell apart without some replacement could handle the QB duties adequately. That's what I meant earlier , referring to our history of developing WB's. It has just been so stinking disappointing!!!
I was concerned last year when we lost Micah Bowens, Johnson, and especially Levis.
I got into my own doubt during the Indiana game, 4th quarter and Clifford running it and getting smacked by IU's solid linebacker. At that point i'm saying where's the backups? The next game my doubts were justified.
I got into my own doubt during the Indiana game, 4th quarter and Clifford running it and getting smacked by IU's solid linebacker. At that point i'm saying where's the backups? The next game my doubts were justified.
Just speculating, as admittedly I have no inside information.....but relatively sure that Roberson was #2 early in the season at least in part because CV was in the doghouse over a summer misdemeanor charge.
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Go cheer for another team if you are actually a fan Mrs Hackenberg.
Having someone lay out how bad Franklin's judgement and decision making process can be and knowing we are stuck with him for a long time is jarring.
and last season was the worst defense of the Franklin era?
Nothing said from the peanut gallery hurts me. It amuses me. I can't wait each day too see the NNNNNCAC lash out and writhe in agony......LOL
It's unique to have someone possess such keen insight.
"it's all the coaches fault." I've never heard or seen that before.
And yet you cannot argue with me so you don't. Go ahead, explain why Franklin, who now has a well documented history of poor judgement and decision making is coming off back to back subpar seasons (with a roster of his recruits vs. his best seasons which leveraged his predecessors recruits almost entirely) with a third 5 loss season likely on the way (which would make it 4 of 5 seasons) is anything but the most over-rated, over-paid coach in history.
I was following the beat writers for USC and LSU in mid-October last year as they compiled a weekly ranking of coaching candidates, and my recollection is that Franklin was high on both lists...especially USC. In fact, very high...top 3 or higher.
Then came the Illinois game, and the enthusiasm level dropped sharply as connections were drawn to the failed 2020 season, which some had earlier been willing to consider a one-off due to Covid. But then how to rationalize the Illinois debacle?
They wanted a guy who would "move the needle," a splashy hire. At the beginning of October, Franklin still fit that bill. By the end of October, with another potentially disappointing season shaping up, he did not. It's funny how one big W...or L...can change the narrative overnight.
That said, I have no inside scoop on the thinking of the decision-makers at either USC or LSU. But I do have a sense of how media operates, how it can reflect or sometimes be a product of the viewpoints of those in power, and it appeared to me that the media buzz and chatter surrounding Franklin changed substantially after the Illinois loss.
This is more or less where I come out.
I loved Franklin's hire and remained a big fan of his for years. I defended him vigorously on this board in fact against what I considered ridiculous criticism in 2019. Hell, I defended him in 2020 and 2021 too, though in less ringing fashion...until by November last year things became difficult to rationalize.
In fact, the last couple years have given me pause on a number of fronts: the team's performance on the field, possible tension in the locker room, the dragged-out kabuki dance surrounding the contract extension, and so forth.
James makes a whole lot of money and works in a profession where criticism comes with the territory. Some of it is unfair...even dumb. Some of it is justified and reasonable. But if you can't deal with it, you're in the wrong business. I think the coach himself knows that very well.
I'm still on board with Franklin, but I really hope we see the 2016-19 edition this year. It wasn't perfect, but the vast majority of fans aren't expecting perfection. In fact, if not for two backbreaking 4th-quarter collapses against Ohio State during that stretch, I doubt we'd even be having this conversation.
I like what you said. The business is "what have you done for me lately?"
Kelly has a bunch of 4 and 5 losses years, but he has an undefeated regular season and another playoff appearance (maybe 2, I didn't research it). He's had a losing season as well.
Riley doesn't have any bad low end seasons, but he's not got a title yet either with a relatively easy path to the playoff. One team looked close, but fell to UGA in the Rose Bowl (Baker's last year).
USC I can understand buying a new coach. Riley now has the benefit of not losing to SEC teams in his pocket.
LSU is just playing a tough game: waiting out Saban.
Some can believe sanctions ended 7 years ago and mean nothing now, but go to the Kentucky Rivals board (where this thread was shared and discussed by some of the UK posters replying earlier) and see what the perception is of our school.
The View of Levis from Penn State Fans
Interesting discussion that has the typical put downs of UK (what is that all-time PSU/UK record?). I had wondered if Levis’s rapid development, here, had caused frowns in Happy Valley. https://bwi.forums.rivals.com/threads/consider-how-bad-the-qb-recruiting-coaching-has-been.318819/
kentucky.forums.rivals.com
I have been off the band wagon for a while. I love your optimism but the fact of the matter is Franklin's judgement stinks outload. MY is a system coach who can only run HIS system. Right now, almost the entirely of the two deep up front isn't suited to HIS system. We have a QB that can only execute 75% of HIS system. Unless Flowers or Meiga shock the world, we don't have a Z reciever that fits HIS system. It is only slightly better on defense.
We are staring at another 7 and 5 season. Maybe 8 and 4. Franklin's track record isn't nearly as good as people think. His best season at Vandy resulted in a 4 and 4 SEC record with his best win over an 8 and 4 Georgia team (his best win at Georgia by a country mile) that lost its bowl game. His SEC wins were over 4 and 8 Florida, 5 and 7 Tennessee (2 SEC wins) and 2 and 10 Kentucky (0 and 8 in the SEC). 2012 wasn't any better. He had one more SEC win but they were against 5 and 7 Mizzou (2 and 6 in the SEC), 3 and 9 Auburn (0 and 8 in the SEC), 2 and 10 Kentucky (0 and 8 in the SEC), 7 and 5 Ole Miss (who likewise was a paper tiger, record wise, this is his second best SEC win), and 5 and 7 Tennessee (1 and 7 in the SEC).
Coach Hype's record at Penn State is only marginally better. He beats losings teams, loses to winning teams. Not much has changed. To date, his best regular season win is 2016 over Ohio State. After that, mostly 8 and 4 and 7 and 5 teams or worse. His history says we are staring down the barrel of another 7 and 5 or 8 and 4 season followed by another and then another.
I'm not really "optimistic." A better word would be "hopeful."
At this point, after being a big-time Franklin booster for several years, I'm in the middle on the guy. I think his overall record is still a lot better than his detractors give him credit for...but over the last two years worse than his uncritical fans can bring themselves to admit.
That's why the upcoming year is so important for a meaningful read on the direction of the program. I don't need a top-10 finish. I'd happily settle for 8 or 9 wins, to include one where we beat a team we weren't supposed to beat. Anything better than that would be gravy.
I think it is more down than you think. He never won more than 3 regular season games against teams with winning records until 2018. Most seasons as a head coach are 1 or 0. He can a combined 10 wins over conference opponents with winning conference records. again, most seasons are 1 or 0. The most is 3 in 2019 where he also has the most wins against teams with winning records. A lot of his wins over winning teams are in the just over .500 category, group of 5 or lower division. Sorry, his record isn't better than many detractors give him credit for. His record is what it is. With a couple of exceptions, he does not beat good teams. He loses to them.
Outside of Dabo, Saban, Day, Smart: whose record indicates they are winning those games?
Certainly isn't Harbaugh, where his Michigan stint was nearly coming to its close before he beat OSU and made the playoff. His '21 is Franklin's '16.
If Franklin gets no credit for the majority of his wins, Kelly and Riley are out of the conversation beating up on the ACC and Big 12.
Just curious. Tia.
Interesting that some of those fans said that Allar did not have a good Spring practice. There hasn’t been much said about Allar, so has anyone heard anything credible about how Allar’s first spring practice went?I like what you said. The business is "what have you done for me lately?"
Kelly has a bunch of 4 and 5 losses years, but he has an undefeated regular season and another playoff appearance (maybe 2, I didn't research it). He's had a losing season as well.
Riley doesn't have any bad low end seasons, but he's not got a title yet either with a relatively easy path to the playoff. One team looked close, but fell to UGA in the Rose Bowl (Baker's last year).
USC I can understand buying a new coach. Riley now has the benefit of not losing to SEC teams in his pocket.
LSU is just playing a tough game: waiting out Saban.
Some can believe sanctions ended 7 years ago and mean nothing now, but go to the Kentucky Rivals board (where this thread was shared and discussed by some of the UK posters replying earlier) and see what the perception is of our school.
The View of Levis from Penn State Fans
Interesting discussion that has the typical put downs of UK (what is that all-time PSU/UK record?). I had wondered if Levis’s rapid development, here, had caused frowns in Happy Valley. https://bwi.forums.rivals.com/threads/consider-how-bad-the-qb-recruiting-coaching-has-been.318819/
I did a look maybe 5-6 months ago at coaches at top 10-15 type programs and their record against top-10 teams. Franklin was either at the bottom or 2nd from the bottom. Harbaugh was down there, as was Brian Kelly I believe. But Franklin's winning % was the worst.
Franklin's 8-game losing streak against top-10 teams is really hard to mask. 2-17 against top-10 teams overall. Hard to fault him too much for losing those games at Vandy and in 2014-15 here. But even with a fully loaded roster (2016 and beyond), the record is 2-9.
You are not "we" so shut up and jump on the O$U bandwagon since you are so miserable and negative toward PSU. I don't believe in blindly loving the Nits and criticism of coaches and players is definitely warranted but you are off the charts freakish.
Your opinion is of no consequence.....to me or CJF. You should aspire to be "over rated and over paid.."
My bet is that CJF cares not one instant about your assessment of him. He spends more time going over his bank statement and investment portfolio than worrying about the opinions of the peanut gallery.
He loves coaching and I doubt he will be unemployed anytime soon. But keep whining, its amusing.
How did Vandy do before CJF......How have they done since he's gone?
He didn't do all that well. Went 0 for the century against good teams while beating a collection of 1AA and sunbelt scrubs and SEC also rans that mostly finished 3 and 9 or 4 and 8 with his predecessors talent. Any top fifty coach could do that just like any top fifty coach could do what he is doing at Penn State for half the price.
I said it before and I'll say it again, Franklin is not a bad head coach, but he isn't a particularly good one. He benefited from being in the right place at the right time at Vandy, inherited a great situation at Penn State but now that his predecessors pipeline is bare, his flawed decision making process has turned us into Tennessee. A lot of talent, too many holes in the roster (that he created) and a series of system coaches incapable of adjusting.
Franklin did a great job at Vanderbilt. No doubt about it. He elevated the talent level at Vandy and won a lot of games they ordinarily don't win. But he did go 1-8 against ranked teams. That remains his calling card -- don't expect him to beat better teams.
The sports world is full of coaches who did an outstanding job in one assignment, get promoted to a bigger assignment, and have more mixed results. Or, coaches have success at that bigger assignment and then fall off.
Mack Brown, Gus Malzahn, Les Miles, Dan Mullen, Tom Herman, John Cooper, Tommy Bowden, Phillip Fulmer, etc. etc. etc. The list is long.
The problem is Franklin isn't in their class (Mullen and Herman yes, but not the others) yet we gave him a contract that these guys would have if they were in the prime today and one he absolutely hasn't earned putting the entire athletic department at risk. His track record suggests that he will continue to whine and complain about funding. Remain unaccountable. Continue to make bad decisions regarding coaching hires. This is reality and we are stuck with it for years.
Being at the right place at the right time is the key to every persons success. Saying he inherited a great situation at PSU shows how completely brain dead you are.
You do realize that you are mentioning 4 guys who won national championships? LOL
In the past 30 years.....how many times has Vandy beat a top ten ranked team?
You are correct about mixed results.....so I guess you would put Nick Saban in that category?
A so called fan is entitled to his or her opinion.....however insignificant it may be. But one loses credibility when arguments go to the extreme and every thread becomes an excuse to denigrate the coach.
I used to enjoy going to The Lair to be amused by their self pity and agony....now I just remain here.
He's not in Tommy Bowden's class? Your inane criticisms of Franklin can only be a desperate attempt to mask your own insecurities.
"WE" are not stuck and you certainly aren't "WE."
Yep. Something James Franklin will absolutely never accomplish -- of that, I'm supremely confident.
Not surprised the point of the post went right over your head. Franklin's success in 2016-17 is virtually no guarantee that he's bound to continue having a high level of success. Lots of guys succeeded and then fell off. This upcoming season will tell us a lot about whether that's happening here. If I had to guess, another 4+ loss season is in the cards, and 2016-17 grows farther in our rear view mirror.
And while we're on the topic of "so-called fans" and their worthless opinions -- look in the mirror, pops.
. I don't see anybody consulting you for coaching advice these days.
Better to be a has been that a never was been......Yep. Something James Franklin will absolutely never accomplish -- of that, I'm supremely confident.
Not surprised the point of the post went right over your head. Franklin's success in 2016-17 is virtually no guarantee that he's bound to continue having a high level of success. Lots of guys succeeded and then fell off. This upcoming season will tell us a lot about whether that's happening here. If I had to guess, another 4+ loss season is in the cards, and 2016-17 grows farther in our rear view mirror.
And while we're on the topic of "so-called fans" and their worthless opinions -- look in the mirror, pops.
Blaming Franklin for not winning a Natty is sweet. I mean PSU has won 2 in 140 years.
Success is guaranteed? LOL It's obvious you never wore a jock.
I think 8-4 is about right. I'll be fine with that. As for the future chances of bringing a National Championship or even a playoff appearance to PSU, I think CJF has as much chance as any coach they can realistically bring here.
But in the meantime, I love coming here and seeing you and Breen blame CJF for global warming, COVID 19, the War in Ukraine etc. It tickles this old coach to see you so unhappy.
You're arguing with people on an internet message board and suggesting that 8-4 is a perfectly fine result for a top-10 program that has been consistently recruiting top-15 classes. LOL.
That explains so much. Have a great weekend, coach.
It will be difficult, knowing how much angst (over PSU Football) you suffer.
You are assuming that College Football will maintain the status quo…we are quickly descending into minor league football to be followed shortly by “boxing” level of apathy.
It is that a reflection of the AD?
No one else has such job security with such mediocre results…and trending in the wrong direction.
Again, the AD cannot commit 80 million dollars to anyone or anything without the cooperation and approval of multiple administrators and the Board of Trustees. To assert that CJF's contract was a one person creation is ludicrous.
No coach will attain that at PSU…of that I am supremely confident.Yep. Something James Franklin will absolutely never accomplish -- of that, I'm supremely confident.
Not surprised the point of the post went right over your head. Franklin's success in 2016-17 is virtually no guarantee that he's bound to continue having a high level of success. Lots of guys succeeded and then fell off. This upcoming season will tell us a lot about whether that's happening here. If I had to guess, another 4+ loss season is in the cards, and 2016-17 grows farther in our rear view mirror.
And while we're on the topic of "so-called fans" and their worthless opinions -- look in the mirror, pops.
Re 8-4, I think that's a realistic expectation. It's not an easy schedule by any means, but there are 6 clear on-paper wins, so start with that as a floor.
Then compute losses against the Big Two, both of which have made every pre-season top-10 list. OK, we get Ohio State at home, but they're loaded as usual and are a consensus playoff pick. Michigan on the road...tough to see a W there.
So the crunch comes, and the season stands or falls, on the four remaining games, all seemingly tough but winnable: Purdue, Auburn, Minnesota, and Michigan State.
Right out of the gate, the Purdue game should tell a lot. On the road, and the Boilers are bringing back a lot of guys to include a credible QB.
I'm thinking if we can win three of these games and end up 9-3, teeing up next year when some of the hot-shot recruits might start making serious contributions, you'd have to consider 2022 a success. And if can somehow pull a rabbit out of the hat against either Ohio State or Michigan, wow, what a lift that would be. Hope springs eternal and all.
