COVID gratuitous dumpster fire thread

[crablegs1]

Additionally, if you're talking about 0-50 age group, there are a whole shitpile more people in that age group than the 75+ that covid hit hardest early on. If covid was more dangerous and more transmissible to the 0-50 crowd, shouldn't we be seeing much, much higher death counts with this latest surge? We're not.

Provisional COVID-19 Deaths: Focus on Ages 0-18 Years | Data | Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

data.cdc.gov

I wonder if the reason that there isn’t a much higher death rate has anything to do with half the population being vaccinated? Nope, probably not.

 

[Dogwelder]

The decision to get jabbed or not get jabbed is being made now, after all of those changes have taken place. Unfortunately, what's past is past. People couldn't make that decision until various times throughout this year. In my age and health group, I couldn't make the decision until something like April, because more susceptible people were able to make the decision and get the jab earlier.

Or, maybe your math and science has come up with a way to make time travel possible.

What the hell are you talking about? How does your decision timeline relate to your claim that certain facts don’t point to compound interest? I don’t care about your decision timeline. Talking to you is hopeless because you keep saying nothing and then running to some other irrelevant topic and say nothing there. I’m done with you and your empty useless words.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

The point of having a brain is to see an exponential train coming and get out of the way before it hits. In the case of Covid, we get on the order of half a million US deaths, despite closing down big parts of the economy, but it is still not enough for you. You want to see more deaths before you think people should work together and get the people and the economy out of the way of the train.

What evidence and data do you have that show this being exponential?

 

[Sportfan2017]

Data and statistics. Please cite the "far more dangerous to younger ages."

According to the CDC, there have been 486 deaths from January 4, 2020 to September 4, 2021 in the 0-18 age group. Total. So, unless there was just one death in that age group in 2020, and 485 in the last month, color me sceptical of your statement. Plus, we're not even vaccinating kids in that age group.

Additionally, if you're talking about 0-50 age group, there are a whole shitpile more people in that age group than the 75+ that covid hit hardest early on. If covid was more dangerous and more transmissible to the 0-50 crowd, shouldn't we be seeing much, much higher death counts with this latest surge? We're not.

Provisional COVID-19 Deaths: Focus on Ages 0-18 Years | Data | Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

data.cdc.gov

So you take "Younger Ages" to mean 0-18 years old. I guess you have to wordsmith to make the "argument" work. Then you include all people in the 0-50 age group. How convenient. Again.....the answer lies in the difference you keep choosing to ignore. Half of the people in the 18-60 age group are vaccinated and therefore suffer extremely low death rates. Please focus on the unvaccinated people in that age group. Despite the various drugs that are effective in helping people survive Covid.....the death rates among unvaccinated are much higher. Including a massive group of vaccinated people in your Analysis of a "Group" is the very definition of faulty analysis. You can NOT combine completely different groups and come to a single "Group" conclusion and be accurate. You keep trying though . I can do that too...........A DOZEN Scientific study released today ALL now show a FIFTY PERCENT DROP in pregnancies in the 18 to 42 age group. Absolute FACT *

* Includes all males and females between 18 and 42......because.....what's the difference??

 

[pawrestlersintn]

I wonder if the reason that there isn’t a much higher death rate has anything to do with half the population being vaccinated? Nope, probably not.

It is surely one of the reasons, maybe even the most significant reason. So? If those that are vaccinated are protected, why should we force those who don't want to be vaccinated to be vaccinated? To free up hospital beds for people who choose to OD on opiods or smokers with lung cancer or obese people who choose not to change their health habits?

 

[pawrestlersintn]

So you take "Younger Ages" to mean 0-18 years old. I guess you have to wordsmith to make the "argument" work. Then you include all people in the 0-50 age group. How convenient. Again.....the answer lies in the difference you keep choosing to ignore that. Half of the people in the 18-60 age group are vaccinated and therefore suffer extremely low death rates. Please focus on the unvaccinated people in that age group. Despite the various drugs that are effective in helping people survive Covid.....the death rates among unvaccinated are much higher. Including a massive group of vaccinated people in your Analysis of a "Group" is the very definition of faulty analysis. You can NOT combine completely different groups and come to a single "Group" conclusion and be accurate. You keep trying though . I can do that too...........A Scientific study released today now shows a FIFTY PERCENT DROP in pregnancies among humans between 18 and 42. Absolute FACT *

* Includes all males and females between 18 and 42......because.....what's the difference??

You chose to use vague terminology when you made your initial statement, not me.

So, the death rates for the unvaccinated are higher than those for the vaccinated? Good for the vaccinated. Are the death rates higher or lower for unvaccinated people now than they were six months ago? A year ago? And, whether it is higher or lower, so what? The vaccinated are protected, so they should be happy.

Here's a study that shows the mortality rates of vaccinated, versus unvaccinated people from LA County. Vaccinated people were 25% of covid cases (an amazing stat to begin with) and they suffered a 0.2% mortality rate. Unvaccinated were 71% of the study, and they suffered, gasp, a 0.6% mortality rate. Considering the overall mortality rate from the inception until now is 1.6%, a mortality rate of 0.6% in unvaccinated people seems pretty good. Could that be due to better medical understanding? Better treatment methods?

 

[crablegs1]

It is surely one of the reasons, maybe even the most significant reason. So? If those that are vaccinated are protected, why should we force those who don't want to be vaccinated to be vaccinated? To free up hospital beds for people who choose to OD on opiods or smokers with lung cancer or obese people who choose not to change their health habits?

ok, so now you’re on to making the argument that only certain people “deserve” medical treatment. I’ll let you man that death panel by yourself and sign off at this point.

 

[js8793]

ok, so now you’re on to making the argument that only certain people “deserve” medical treatment. I’ll let you man that death panel by yourself and sign off at this point.

It's scary how easily many people can just casually slide into eugenic thinking smh.

We're human beings folks, not animals.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

ok, so now you’re on to making the argument that only certain people “deserve” medical treatment. I’ll let you man that death panel by yourself and sign off at this point.

Not in the least. I'm 100% against it. Just making a point that hospitals are full of people who have made poor decisions. Last weekend, I actually had a pro-vaxxer tell me that unvaccinated people should not receive treatment. I then brought up the obesity example. He was so bought into his rhetoric that he eventually told me that he agreed that obese people shouldn't receive treatment, either. I didn't have the heart to bring up the fact that he was a smoker for sixty years, and in his scenario, he should probably be denied treatment for lung cancer, should he develop it.

I'm 100% against denying medical treatment to anyone based on their prior life decisions.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

It's scary how easily many people can just casually slide into eugenic thinking smh.

We're human beings folks, not animals.

Check my last message.

 

[crablegs1]

Not in the least. I'm 100% against it. Just making a point that hospitals are full of people who have made poor decisions. Last weekend, I actually had a pro-vaxxer tell me that unvaccinated people should not receive treatment. I then brought up the obesity example. He was so bought into his rhetoric that he eventually told me that he agreed that obese people shouldn't receive treatment, either. I didn't have the heart to bring up the fact that he was a smoker for sixty years, and in his scenario, he should probably be denied treatment for lung cancer, should he develop it.

I'm 100% against denying medical treatment to anyone based on their prior life decisions.

But your whole point in the thread was that it didn’t matter if hospitals are overwhelmed because most of the people made “poor decisions”.

So what is it, does it matter if hospitals are overwhelmed or not?

 

[pawrestlersintn]

But your whole point in the thread was that it didn’t matter if hospitals are overwhelmed because most of the people made “poor decisions”.

So what is it, does it matter if hospitals are overwhelmed or not?

My whole point in the thread? Really?

That message was a question to the adamant vaxers, wasn't it? "If those that are vaccinated are protected, why should we force those who don't want to be vaccinated to be vaccinated?"

I guess my mistake was suggesting an answer that a vaxer might give.

 

[crablegs1]

My whole point in the thread? Really?

That message was a question to the adamant vaxers, wasn't it? "If those that are vaccinated are protected, why should we force those who don't want to be vaccinated to be vaccinated?"

I guess my mistake was suggesting an answer that a vaxer might give.

Ok, and I say hospital overcrowding. Your response?

“To free up hospital beds for people who choose to OD on opiods or smokers with lung cancer or obese people who choose not to change their health habits?”

 

[Sportfan2017]

You chose to use vague terminology when you made your initial statement, not me.

I used a terminology. You claim it to be vague but then YOU decide without asking follow-up or for clarification..... what ages to choose so you can toss numbers that somehow you think is quality analysis. You just continue to divert, deflect and use faulty analysis .....almost always using outdated numbers and/or combining unrelated information. No matter how the dynamics of things change.....you use pre-change analysis to postulate. You must really stink at chess. "Hurry up and move so I can make my move no matter how the position changes because of the new dynamic created by your move" We call that "Wish Chess". In chess....it is usually followed by "I didn't see that coming". No.....you didn't bother to LOOK for it" Truly no sense in even trying to provide info to someone who just cuts and pastes info that is not relevant to the current dynamics. But ....stick with what you think works I am with Dogwelder......I'm out

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Ok, and I say hospital overcrowding. Your response?

“To free up hospital beds for people who choose to OD on opiods or smokers with lung cancer or obese people who choose not to change their health habits?”

My response is first come, first served.

Otherwise, you (or whoever makes the decision to turn away covid patients) is doing exactly what you accused me of doing. Picking and choosing patients based on life decisions.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

I used a terminology. You claim it to be vague but then YOU decide without asking follow-up or for clarification..... what ages to choose so you can toss numbers that somehow you think is quality analysis. You just continue to divert, deflect and use faulty analysis .....almost always using outdated numbers and/or combining unrelated information. No matter how the dynamics of things change.....you use pre-change analysis to postulate. You must really stink at chess. "Hurry up and move so I can make my move no matter how the position changes because of the new dynamic created by your move" We call that "Wish Chess". In chess....it is usually followed by "I didn't see that coming". No.....you didn't bother to LOOK for it" Truly no sense in even trying to provide info to someone who just cuts and pastes info that is not relevant to the current dynamics. But ....stick with what you think works I am with Dogwelder......I'm out

I'm pretty sure I have copied and pasted nothing.

Please, oh wise chess player, use data and statistics to show me how wrong I am.

Sorry, forgot to link the study I discussed in my last message to you, in case you want to use it. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7034e5.htm

 

[crablegs1]

My response is first come, first served.

Otherwise, you (or whoever makes the decision to turn away covid patients) is doing exactly what you accused me of doing. Picking and choosing patients based on life decisions.

I’m not. I’m saying make those idiots get vaccinated so we don’t have that problem. See, simple.

 

[psumacw]

is the dude that fell out of a tree not able to see that the ER isn't necessarily filled with druggies and fatties? or is he counting himself among them?

 

[pawrestlersintn]

I’m not. I’m saying make those idiots get vaccinated so we don’t have that problem. See, simple.

Then at the same time, we should tell the obese to make healthier life choices, smokers to stop smoking, stop hang-gliding, stop motocross racing, stop rock climbing, boxing, heli-skiing, ski jumping and other dangerous activities.

 

[Sportfan2017]

Then at the same time, we should tell the obese to make healthier life choices, smokers to stop smoking, stop hang-gliding, stop motocross racing, stop rock climbing, boxing, heli-skiing, ski jumping and other dangerous activities.

I'm pretty sure I have copied and pasted nothing.

Please, oh wise chess player, use data and statistics to show me how wrong I am.

Sorry, forgot to link the study I discussed in my last message to you, in case you want to use it. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7034e5.htm

You: Seven is greater than Six
Teacher: Huh? The question I asked was "What is the Capital of Maine"?
You: Prove me wrong.
Teacher: The Capital of Maine is Augusta
You: .....use data and statistics to show me how wrong I am

 

[pawrestlersintn]

is the dude that fell out of a tree not able to see that the ER isn't necessarily filled with druggies and fatties? or is he counting himself among them?

Yep, I screwed up. But...

76,000 deaths per year are attributed to obesity.
271,800, 30.7%, of covid hospitalizations were attributed to obesity, not to covid, as of November 18, 2020.
There were 70,600 drug overdose deaths in 2019.

5,000 to 6,400 hunters each year require some sort of medical attention. No data on hospitalization and deaths.

 

[Dogwelder]

What evidence and data do you have that show this being exponential?

Ha ha. Sad joke. I hope you are just pretending to be so dumb as to ask that question. Because, after trying lame sarcasm, you think it is so funny to make people explain why apples fall down instead of up.

Go home. Take your pretend naïveté and ignorance home. What a waste of words you are. Get a life.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

You: Seven is greater than Six
Teacher: Huh? The question I asked was "What is the Capital of Maine"?
You: Prove me wrong......use data and statistics to show me how wrong I am

Good one. Still nothing substantive, but good one. Come on, man. If you're so right, this should be easy. Use those chess skills.

 

[Dogwelder]

This guy Tennessee has gone over the edge. He’s not even trying anymore. He’s just pretending to be stupid and trolling us with random nonsense. As if we were random stranger punks on 4chan. As if his performance art is not unoriginal and not already played out. It’s totally disrespectful. How old is he? What an embarrassment.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Ha ha. Sad joke. I hope you are just pretending to be so dumb as to ask that question. Because, after trying lame sarcasm, you think it is so funny to make people explain why apples fall down instead of up.

Go home. Take your pretend naïveté and ignorance home. What a waste of words you are. Get a life.

Throughout this entire thread, you have offered nothing of substance. Nothing but arrogant invective and ad hom attacks. Is covid growing exponentially right now? Are deaths growing exponentially? Show me.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

This guy Tennessee has gone over the edge. He’s not even trying anymore. He’s just pretending to be stupid and trolling us with random nonsense. As if we were random stranger punks on 4chan. As if his performance art is not unoriginal and not already played out. It’s totally disrespectful. How old is he? What an embarrassment.

Still no math and science to back up anything you say, eh? Refute my points, if it's so easy. But, use math, science and data.

 

[crablegs1]

Then at the same time, we should tell the obese to make healthier life choices, smokers to stop smoking, stop hang-gliding, stop motocross racing, stop rock climbing, boxing, heli-skiing, ski jumping and other dangerous activities.

Agreed. If there was a shot I could give to prevent 90% of obesity is be in favor of mandating that too.

I’m also in favor of excise taxes on sugar, and even higher taxes in alcohol and tobacco.

 

[James P. Whitters III]

The whole thing is stupid. Fact- The population is way too high. Fact- Over populated species will eventually take a huge hit to the population through disease or famine. Fact- Covid is not that big event, yet some act like it is. Fact- The environmental damage from all of the hand sanitizer,disposable masks,needles,vaccine bottles, etc. created by our over reaction will have terrible effects on our environment and therefore future health for the next several decades. Let nature take the course it is going to take. Somebody wake me when the death rate breaks 25%.

 

[crablegs1]

The whole thing is stupid. Fact- The population is way too high. Fact- Over populated species will eventually take a huge hit to the population through disease or famine. Fact- Covid is not that big event, yet some act like it is. Fact- The environmental damage from all of the hand sanitizer,disposable masks,needles,vaccine bottles, etc. created by our over reaction will have terrible effects on our environment and therefore future health for the next several decades. Let nature take the course it is going to take. Somebody wake me when the death rate breaks 25%.

What’s the right number for the world population?

 

[pawrestlersintn]

The whole thing is stupid. Fact- The population is way too high. Fact- Over populated species will eventually take a huge hit to the population through disease or famine. Fact- Covid is not that big event, yet some act like it is. Fact- The environmental damage from all of the hand sanitizer,disposable masks,needles,vaccine bottles, etc. created by our over reaction will have terrible effects on our environment and therefore future health for the next several decades. Let nature take the course it is going to take. Somebody wake me when the death rate breaks 25%.

The death rate at 25%? Dogwelder is soiling his pants over 0.2%.

 

[James P. Whitters III]

What’s the right number for the world population?

Somewhere just shy of 20 percent of the current population. That is a fairly big debate, but I don't think any credible sources see the ideal population above 50% of the current population. Do some research. Trust the real science. My daughter says 1.5 billion but she is a biology professor who thinks she is an infectious disease expert.

 

[crablegs1]

Somewhere just shy of 20 percent of the current population. That is a fairly big debate, but I don't think any credible sources see the ideal population above 50% of the current population. Do some research. Trust the real science.

I remember this being a scientific debate roughly 20-25 years ago but haven’t hear much about it since.

Post your favorite article on the subject and I’d be interested to read it.

 

[Dogwelder]

Still no math and science to back up anything you say, eh? Refute my points, if it's so easy. But, use math, science and data.

Ha ha. You are serious with that nonsense? I thought you were trolling and pretending to be stupid. We’ll, I’m embarrassed to have to inform you that populations grow exponentially. Half a million Americans died to show you. From virtually no cases and deaths, to cases and deaths doubling every N days in the beginning when we did nothing to stop them. Now we have paid a heavy price of staying home from work and school and the small prices of wearing masks and getting people immunized to disrupt the exponential growth. A few percentages here, and there, add up to significant disruption. But you want to take that disruption of exponential growth as evidence that exponential growth does not exist. That is stupid. Because exponential growth is not in dispute. Because of math. You are not worth talking to, so I will ignore you now.

 

[James P. Whitters III]

I remember this being a scientific debate roughly 20-25 years ago but haven’t hear much about it since.

Post your favorite article on the subject and I’d be interested to read it.

Google it. there are hundreds or articles. Famine is present many places but luckily we have avoided that here. We continue to pollute our oceans, build on our best farm land,pollute our water sources, and expand our population. It doesn't take a marine biologist to understand that something has to give.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Ha ha. You are serious with that nonsense? I thought you were trolling and pretending to be stupid. We’ll, I’m embarrassed to have to inform you that populations grow exponentially. Half a million Americans died to show you. From virtually no cases and deaths, to cases and deaths doubling every N days in the beginning when we did nothing to stop them. Now we have paid a heavy price of staying home from work and school and the small prices of wearing masks and getting people immunized to disrupt the exponential growth. A few percentages here, and there, add up to significant disruption. But you want to take that disruption of exponential growth as evidence that exponential growth does not exist. That is stupid. Because exponential growth is not in dispute. Because of math. You are not worth talking to, so I will ignore you now.

Now that he's ignoring me, can anyone point to a single Dogwelder message responding to me where he displayed content-full discourse?

Right. Because I point out you said literally nothing, now you say literally nothing, but with sarcasm. Content-free discourse.

 

[James P. Whitters III]

Ha ha. You are serious with that nonsense? I thought you were trolling and pretending to be ignorant. We’ll, I’m embarrassed to have to inform you that populations grow exponentially. Half a million Americans died to show you. From virtually no cases and deaths, to cases and death doubling every N days in the beginning when we did nothing to stop them. Now we have paid a heavy price of staying home from work and school and getting people immunized to disrupt the exponential growth. But you want to take that disruption of exponential growth as evidence that exponential growth does not exist.

The death rate at 25%? Dogwelder is soiling his pants over 0.2%.

I pretty sure Dogwelder spends way too much time staring at the welder without eye protection. How many dogs die during this welding?

 

[Sportfan2017]

Good one. Still nothing substantive, but good one. Come on, man. If you're so right, this should be easy. Use those chess skills.

Seriously???.......this is a perfect analogy for what it is like talking with you. That you don't get it is precisely the problem. You want others to explain "Unrelated data", "Combining vastly different data groups", "Outdated data" "Faulty transference", "Invalid comparisons" etc. You always respond with more numbers while continuing to use the same faulty analysis issues. Wow So:

You: Seven is greater than Six
Teacher: Huh? The question I asked was "What is the Capital of Maine"?
You: Prove me wrong.
Teacher: The Capital of Maine is Augusta
You: .....use data and statistics to show me how wrong I am.
Teacher: The Capital of Maine is Augusta. That is the answer to the question presented.
You: .....Come on, teacher. If you're so right, this should be easy.

Time to cue up Lamb Chops

 

[James P. Whitters III]

Seriously???.......this is a perfect analogy for what it is like talking with you. That you don't get it is precisely the problem. You want others to explain "Unrelated data", "Combining vastly different data groups", "Outdated data" "Faulty transference", "Invalid comparisons" etc. You always respond with more numbers while continuing to use the same faulty analysis issues. Wow So:

You: Seven is greater than Six
Teacher: Huh? The question I asked was "What is the Capital of Maine"?
You: Prove me wrong.
Teacher: The Capital of Maine is Augusta
You: .....use data and statistics to show me how wrong I am.
Teacher: The Capital of Maine is Augusta. That is the answer to the question presented.
You: .....Come on, teacher. If you're so right, this should be easy.

Time to cue up Lamb Chops

Come on man- You use an argument based 100% on what you are accusing him of doing? I'm looking for a good debate from anybody on why people dying at this low rate is a bad thing. I contend that the only bad thing (based on real science) is the insanely low death rate and our extreme efforts to reduce it even further. Make the argument based on science instead of blah blah human emotion. Anyone?

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Seriously???.......this is a perfect analogy for what it is like talking with you. That you don't get it is precisely the problem. You want others to explain "Unrelated data", "Combining vastly different data groups", "Outdated data" "Faulty transference", "Invalid comparisons" etc. You always respond with more numbers while continuing to use the same faulty analysis issues. Wow So:

You: Seven is greater than Six
Teacher: Huh? The question I asked was "What is the Capital of Maine"?
You: Prove me wrong.
Teacher: The Capital of Maine is Augusta
You: .....use data and statistics to show me how wrong I am.
Teacher: The Capital of Maine is Augusta. That is the answer to the question presented.
You: .....Come on, teacher. If you're so right, this should be easy.

Time to cue up Lamb Chops

Your poor students.

Student: 2+2=5
You: I used to tell my students that if they understood, they'd understand.
Student: So, 2+2 isn't five?
You: You can't play chess for shit, can you?
Student: Uhhh.
You: You know I'm the smartest person in the room right?
Student: That isn't helping me answer the question. So, are you going to help me or not?
You: You figure it out.

 

[psumacw]

Come on man- You use an argument based 100% on what you are accusing him of doing? I'm looking for a good debate from anybody on why people dying at this low rate is a bad thing. I contend that the only bad thing (based on real science) is the insanely low death rate and our extreme efforts to reduce it even further. Make the argument based on science instead of blah blah human emotion. Anyone?

i would contend that anytime you classify anything as 'good' or 'bad' you're automatically delving into preferences, and by extension, the realm of human emotion, so your entire premise is paradoxical and/or hypocritical.