Flo’s lawsuit against Willie and Rokfin
- Thread starter Chickenman Testa
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That is a little disingenuous from Willie as he stated in a text that he was worried Flo would sue him and Martin told him they wouldn't. If he thought he might get sued then he had an inkling he might be doing something wrong.
By the same logic, if a child abuse victim fears parental violence, then that proves the child knows he did something wrong.
Or if a football player fears phantom penalty calls, that proves he might be playing Ohio State or Michigan.By the same logic, if a child abuse victim fears parental violence, then that proves the child knows he did something wrong.
I have not been a loyal follower of this case but try to somewhat read up so please correct me if I am wrong. Willie had a no-compete clause for a year and it looks like they announced he left flowrestling on November 5, 2019. So basically this case comes down to whether or not the judge finds that flowrestling and rokfin are competitors? Because if the judge rules these two companies are competitors, than he did violate the no-complete cause? I am I missing any other important points?
That’s a good question!
And/or to the requested summary, would someone here please share a link to the actual no-compete agreement?
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There are more attributes to a non compete than joining with a competitor. Non competes fail when they are overly broad regarding scope, territory, time. Courts tend to be sensitive to the rights of an individual to earn a living so therefore Flo needs to prove the agreement was not overly broad, that Willie knowingly broke the agreement, and that by breaking the agreement harmed Flo financially.
Further to this, courts tend to take a dim view of non-competes where the employee had little to zero bargaining power, where the non-compete is effectively a contract of adhesion. That's because if you're making less than six figures, and in a small industry like journalism in a niche sport, signing a non-compete is effectively like agreeing to a year (or six months or whatever) of unemployment if you leave.
Non-competes in journalism should be void as against public policy, in my opinion. A few years ago, the NY AG successfully put an end to the process by reaching an agreement with Law360 (Lexis' legal news reporting arm). From the linked article:
“Unless an individual has highly unique skills or access to trade secrets, non-compete clauses have no place in a worker’s employment contract,” said Attorney General Schneiderman. “Unscrupulous non-compete agreements not only threaten workers seeking to change jobs, they also serve as a veiled threat to employers who may be reluctant to hire candidates due to the mere existence of a non-compete agreement. Workers like the reporters at Law360 should be able to change jobs and advance their careers without fear of being sued by their prior employer.”
Law360 wasn't unique; small trade and tech reporting sites use them too against low-level reporters, but those outlets are all non-union--ironically, the type of reporters whose names you'd know aren't similarly restricted. And the non-competes themselves are rarely litigated--they're mostly just a calculated bluff, and an effective one because neither the leaving employee nor the new employer knows whether the older employer will enforce.
This is why Flo's complaint relies on the assumption that Willie isn't so much a journalist but a creator and possessor of trade secrets, which position, of course, begs the question of why they weren't paying him like one.
All of my employees have simple non competes, and I do so for exactly the reason spelled out above. It's a veiled threat of action that keeps most, if not all, competitory behavior at bay. I don't mind them leaving the company but just don't attempt to steal our clients or company secrets while you're doing it. I wouldn't sue unless I felt the company was at risk long term. I've had to remind a few people but have never had to actually try to enforce it. To spend this amount of coin to prevent Willie from competing must mean he is a real risk to their business plan. Otherwise it doesn't make sense to elevate Willie's importance to this degree. I am incredulous that this trial has lasted several weeks. It should have ended before trial with a payment to FLO for a nominal amount of "harm" if that is what it took to make it go away. Certainly not worth this effort unless it risks FLO long term. You need to pick your fights carefully. FLO seems overly confrontational and litigious as shown in their takedown policy on youtube and in other efforts. That style often backfires.
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Flo is doing this to try to bankrupt Rokfin. The legal fees for this adventure are probably 6 figures at least for each side. This isn't about Willie, this is about Rokfin and Flo feeling heat from them.
I haven't seen a lot of the trial, but one part that I did see was the judge's questioning of Pyles. Her questions centered around, "What's the secret sauce? What makes Flo's (Willie's) ranking so special?" Pyles had no answer. If Willie holds no secret powers when it comes to rankings, it seems that her questions are falling in line with the first paragraph you quoted.
Oh, as to your second paragraph...Was the question of whether the Flo guys were journalists ever resolved a few years ago? Their opinions of themselves changed with which direction the heat was coming from. And, to your point, Willie is very much a journalist on MatScouts. So, how does going from being a non-journalist to a journalist affect your declaration regarding non-competes in journalism. (That's mostly tongue in cheek and rhetorical, as a joke about the Flo journalists.)
I'm shocked that brothers would do this to each other, but I'm also aware of a local seed company that showed similar brotherly love, so it must not be as rare as it seems it should be. The holidays at mom's house must be a blast.
I can see Willie being a journalist, a commentator, and an opinion writer under the same hat using different vehicles. Podcasts, tweets of news, and spreadsheets often have elements of all three simultaneously.
Yes, the judge is weighing how much stock to put into the idea that anything Flo does is trade-secret worthy, but especially rankings, and she's indicating a lot of skepticism to that end (and well she should). However, I thought that this issue could've been resolved in a motion to dismiss or motion for summary judgment (i.e., finding against Flo that as a matter of law, this non-compete was unenforceable), but evidently it wasn't, which is why we've been treated to this trial.
Re "journalism," I'm aware of the irony that the topic has been been revisited numerous times, even on this board. But whatever Willie, CP, or any Flo or ex-Flo employee considers themselves--journalist or not--the question of who is a journalist is mostly objective, considering criteria like what tasks the employee performs, whether they're credentialed, etc. How the world perceives you answers the question, now how you perceive you. Willie is a journalist now and was one at Flo.
All good stuff guys. Thanks. One other question and I have no idea how this goes and I am wondering what the verdict actually means.
If the judge sides with Willie: Willie can continue to do whatever he wants and is out of the non-compete?
If the judge sides with Flo: Does the non-compete get extended since he was in violation, does he play a fine, etc?
If the judge sides with Willie: Willie can continue to do whatever he wants and is out of the non-compete?
If the judge sides with Flo: Does the non-compete get extended since he was in violation, does he play a fine, etc?
You better believe that if the FloBros had to attest in an affidavit swearing that they were journalists in order to gain entry to UWW Worlds and be able to report on the event, stream it, etc, they’d sign that tout suite.
Saying they are not is sophistry
I haven’t watched a second of the trial, but the way Willie conducted himself after leaving Flo was about as unprofessional as it gets. I specifically remember him revealing that Flo was paying Askren more for his daily podcast appearance than any other Flowrestling employee and trying to incite internal unrest. In most industries, trying to sow dissent by publicly disclosing salaries of private employees would get you in a world of trouble and likely some type of legal challenge. It would absolutely impact your severance agreement.
The plaintiff defines that in the complaint, which I haven'[t looked at in awhile, but I think what Flo is seeking is a determination that Willie and Rofkin violated the non-compete, and then damages that flow from that violation. Damages are sometimes determined at a second trial once liability has been found, though I don't think that'll be the case here. I think that the amount Flo can conceivably show in damages is negligible relative to the amount they've spent on lawyers; and, as many have pointed out, Flo is damaging itself in real ways by virtue of having pettily and vindictively taken it this far, separate and apart from anything traceable to Willie and Rokfin have done.
I've missed some hearings but I thought this trial was about Flo's motion for an emergency injunction against Willie/Rokfin for violating previous court orders.
As for journalism, CP and crew have repeatedly claimed that they are not journalists whenever the question arises on how much $$ is NLWC/PSU spending on their recruits (Snyder, Kerk, Gilman, etc). Willie's tweet "what's going on in Columbus" really should have been "what's going on in Happy Valley".
As for journalism, CP and crew have repeatedly claimed that they are not journalists whenever the question arises on how much $$ is NLWC/PSU spending on their recruits (Snyder, Kerk, Gilman, etc). Willie's tweet "what's going on in Columbus" really should have been "what's going on in Happy Valley".
His "recruiting" vehicle would absolutely attract recruits. Cael should consider getting one with rocket launchers attached. For amusement only kids...
His "hang out with PSU" vehicle is my all-time favorite. I went to school just a few years after the Animal House release. It was a must see movie in our fraternity.
Regardless of whether Rokfin and Willie are held in violation, I don't know how one would be able to parse out any financial damages from non-compete violations from covid-related financial damages and self-inflicted damages; especially since Rokfin appears to offer Creators a platform to produce events that doesn't appear comparable to what Flo offers. The damages might only be legal fees, which are not insignificant in themselves.
Just able to tune in now today; sounds like they're making closing arguments.
Just a reminder, I'm keeping all the videos (albeit with a few holes) from these proceedings here:
www.youtube.com
Just a reminder, I'm keeping all the videos (albeit with a few holes) from these proceedings here:
Buster Scruggs
Embarrassing to watch Kelly Klingseisen stumblebum through her closing statement. Why was the most important part of the trial left to the most inexperienced member of the firm?
I'm definitely not, not sure what the parties expect. Judge probably knows where she's going to land but there's enough complexity here, and Flo evidently litigious enough that she's going to want to spend time on the decision and order to sew up the issues that might form the basis for appeal.
Closing is far less important in a bench trial than a jury trial, in all likelihood the judge has known for a week where she's going. She may refer to the transcript of this closing, but she's not going to be susceptible to slick presentation.
