How James Franklin is attracting blue-chip talent to Penn State

[Obliviax]

A college football team isn’t really a business. There is certainly a business side to it but in many ways it isn’t.
For example, if you quit your job at Apple to go work for Google, you can’t go back onto the Apple campus and hang out with your former coworkers.
I think what Franklin tells kids is that as a member of the Penn State Football team they will be a part of something special. A member of an elite club that dates back more than 100 years and it’s a place where they will always be welcome long after he is gone.
I tend to agree with you when it comes to businesses. For-profit businesses are there to make a profit and if you don’t make them money, you are probably not going to be kept around.
But a college football team isn’t a for-profit business.
Is Franklin going to keep a kid in the starting lineup if he doesn’t help him win games, no, but he’s not going to kick him off the team either, like the pros.
Now the kid may want to transfer to get more playing time and that’s fine. But there are a lot of kids who will stay all four or five years and rarely play in an actual game.

Completely and totally disagree. I don't know how you could have watched college football, at the elite level, progress over the last twenty years and say it is anything but a business. hell, we have kids that don't play important games anymore.

Again, not to say that CJF doesn't believe or try to create the best possible environment for the players. But is it a family? Nope. Families, at least mine, are not performance oriented.

 

[Obliviax]

So basically, f*ck us.

"Us" or you?

 

[Art]

No, he doesn’t promise them a roster spot, only a scholarship. And Franklin would not pull the scholarship from a kid who gets hit by a bus.

Someone who is not on the roster doesn't have a football scholarship. As far as not pulling the scholarship of a player who is injured and can no longer play, Franklin is no different than any coach out there. That scholarship no longer counts against the 85 and I've yet to see a coach who has P&L responsibility for the football program.

 

[JeffClear]

Completely and totally disagree. I don't know how you could have watched college football, at the elite level, progress over the last twenty years and say it is anything but a business. hell, we have kids that don't play important games anymore.

Again, not to say that CJF doesn't believe or try to create the best possible environment for the players. But is it a family? Nope. Families, at least mine, are not performance oriented.

Franklin isn’t saying they are family in the sense of parents or siblings etc.
Definition 4a in the Webster’s dictionary of family
“a group of people united by certain convictions or a common affiliation: FELLOWSHIP”
And even at the elite level, college football is significantly different than pro football.

 

[JeffClear]

Someone who is not on the roster doesn't have a football scholarship. As far as not pulling the scholarship of a player who is injured and can no longer play, Franklin is no different than any coach out there. That scholarship no longer counts against the 85 and I've yet to see a coach who has P&L responsibility for the football program.

If you are playing for the Steelers and you get hurt and can’t play anymore, you are cut from the team.
No so in college. And not only that, they can still go to team meetings, stand on the sidelines during games etc.

 

[Kmase21]

Completely and totally disagree. I don't know how you could have watched college football, at the elite level, progress over the last twenty years and say it is anything but a business. hell, we have kids that don't play important games anymore.

Again, not to say that CJF doesn't believe or try to create the best possible environment for the players. But is it a family? Nope. Families, at least mine, are not performance oriented.

Again, I think you're looking way too deep into this and are bringing in your past, for whatever reason into it. It is a family, maybe not your family, or your definition of a Family, but it is a family nonetheless.

These kids literally do everything together, which include team/position meals, team practices, study sessions, cold tub, workouts, etc. They spend many hours a day together, morning noon and night. For goodness sake, they have a summer BBQ every summer for players and recruits and their families. That's a family vibe. Players love it, recruits love it, parents love it, even fans love it.

I cant help but think about the TedTALK he did. Franklin is making a difference in these kids lives, as well as the community. If anyone hasn't watched it I would highly recommend it. He's a father figure for many players being away from home. He keeps so many players on the right track and that goes unnoticed by many.

 

[Art]

If you are playing for the Steelers and you get hurt and can’t play anymore, you are cut from the team.
No so in college. And not only that, they can still go to team meetings, stand on the sidelines during games etc.

Since I was referring to scholarships, it should be obvious to anyone of reasonable intelligence that I was not including pro coaches.

 

[JeffClear]

Since I was referring to scholarships, it should be obvious to anyone of reasonable intelligence that I was not including pro coaches.

I’m just illustrating the differences between a for profit business like an NFL team and a college team.

 

[BobPSU92]

"Us" or you?

Fight us?

 

[Obliviax]

Again, I think you're looking way too deep into this and are bringing in your past, for whatever reason into it. It is a family, maybe not your family, or your definition of a Family, but it is a family nonetheless.

These kids literally do everything together, which include team/position meals, team practices, study sessions, cold tub, workouts, etc. They spend many hours a day together, morning noon and night. For goodness sake, they have a summer BBQ every summer for players and recruits and their families. That's a family vibe. Players love it, recruits love it, parents love it, even fans love it.

I cant help but think about the TedTALK he did. Franklin is making a difference in these kids lives, as well as the community. If anyone hasn't watched it I would highly recommend it. He's a father figure for many players being away from home. He keeps so many players on the right track and that goes unnoticed by many.

OK...we can agree to disagree. Nobody is my family, except my family. Anything else is disingenuous.

 

[sigchip_a_yahoo.com]

Fight us?

No, I am pretty sure he is saying Mother Fighters.

 

[wbcincy]

Hmmm...no

Business isn't family (unless Mafia). And, as an attorney, you know that this'arrangement' cannot be sustained or enforced. As great as CJF is, it will not survive him if he is no longer HC.

Let me be more clear: CJF isn't in charge. The BOT is. So CJF can say a lot of things, but if he is overruled, means nothing. Was Joe Paterno treated as family in 2011? Were the players "treated like family" when BO'B left? Was John Donovan "Treated like Family" when he was fired in the locker room after the last game? Was DC Shoop treated like family during his law suit? I could go through several players but I don't know their specific one-on-one situations so will not address them.

You're taking what he's saying well beyond what it really is, or what I think any player or parent thinks it is. He's not saying, "you're my family, you're all invited for Christmas, I'm placing you in my will, and our familial relationship will be reduced to contractual terms." That's absurd. What he's clearly saying is that if someone comes and plays for him, and he is the coach here, there will be a family atmosphere. It won't just be about winning football games. It will be caring for them to make sure they also do the other things right to be successful in life. They will care for and look out for one another, on and off the field.

Every parent realizes that any given coach could be gone any time. Franklin is just saying as long as he's at the helm, this is the atmosphere that will exist here.

 

[wbcincy]

OK...we can agree to disagree. Nobody is my family, except my family. Anything else is disingenuous.

Since you insist on narrow definitions: biologically, we're all from the family Hominidae, so now Franklin's statement is 100% indisputable.

 

[Obliviax]

Since you insist on narrow definitions: biologically, we're all from the family Hominidae, so now Franklin's statement is 100% indisputable.

OK MacDaddy. LOL.

Since you an attorney, how do you square the "family" relationship surviving CJF's coaching tenure (should he get hit by a bus)?

 

[Obliviax]

You're taking what he's saying well beyond what it really is, or what I think any player or parent thinks it is. He's not saying, "you're my family, you're all invited for Christmas, I'm placing you in my will, and our familial relationship will be reduced to contractual terms." That's absurd. What he's clearly saying is that if someone comes and plays for him, and he is the coach here, there will be a family atmosphere. It won't just be about winning football games. It will be caring for them to make sure they also do the other things right to be successful in life. They will care for and look out for one another, on and off the field.

Every parent realizes that any given coach could be gone any time. Franklin is just saying as long as he's at the helm, this is the atmosphere that will exist here.

I don't think so. I think that is what people using the "we are family" comments want you to think. And that is what is disingenuous about it. When CJF says we treat you like family, it is simply patently untrue. Does he look out for you, want the best for you, try his best to create a successful environment? Of course he does. So do harbaugh and meyer. But in a competitive, non-family environment, he cannot fully deliver on that promise. 1) because he has higher powers and it is not fully under his control b) because he is not a family member and c) because it is a competitive environment.

It is simply not true and not possible. Its like a car dealership advertising that they treat their customers like family. It is just not true and cannot be true because the basis, culture and nature of the relationship make it not true.

 

[cjrugger]

Reading through this thread, I understand where Oblivax's former bosses were coming from

 

[Thomas1945]

Reading through this thread, I understand where Oblivax's former bosses were coming from

Hell, if you agree with cjrugger or not, that’s funny.

 

[crazytoadie]

Fair enough. I just disagree. CJF has bosses and he cannot speak for those bosses. Also, he can't speak for when he is no longer coach, for whatever reason this comes to pass. I've stated, countless times, that I believe his words are sincere. But we saw how Penn State treated other people when push came to shove. If you expect the University to act any differently should the time come, you are naive.

Franklin telling recruits parents that he and his staff will treat players fairly and care about them had zero to do with how the admin treats Franklin and his staff. Franklin is only making statements about him and his subordinates, which he does have control over. While it is valid that PSU May make business decisions outside of fFranklins control that is irrelevant to his recruiting pitch.

 

[Obliviax]

Franklin telling recruits parents that he and his staff will treat players fairly and care about them had zero to do with how the admin treats Franklin and his staff. Franklin is only making statements about him and his subordinates, which he does have control over. While it is valid that PSU May make business decisions outside of fFranklins control that is irrelevant to his recruiting pitch.

Well, first he is using the word "family" not "fairly". Second, I am not going to get into a kid by kid basis other than to say several have left the program. You perform or you sit the bench. It is competitive. It is NOT family. And, I am going to put this in caps "I AM NOT SAYING CJF IS DOING ANYTHING WRONG". I am just putting it out there than anyone who says "we will treat you like family" when they are not family is not telling the complete truth.

This simply feeds into the "used car salesmen" charge from the press and opposing coaches.

 

[Obliviax]

Reading through this thread, I understand where Oblivax's former bosses were coming from

LOL...and they paid dearly for it because, in the eyes of the law, were dead wrong. Perhaps you are too.

 

[danvillenit]

You're taking what he's saying well beyond what it really is, or what I think any player or parent thinks it is. He's not saying, "you're my family, you're all invited for Christmas, I'm placing you in my will, and our familial relationship will be reduced to contractual terms." That's absurd. What he's clearly saying is that if someone comes and plays for him, and he is the coach here, there will be a family atmosphere. It won't just be about winning football games. It will be caring for them to make sure they also do the other things right to be successful in life. They will care for and look out for one another, on and off the field.

Every parent realizes that any given coach could be gone any time. Franklin is just saying as long as he's at the helm, this is the atmosphere that will exist here.

Bingo. I guess we can debate the real meaning of family but I think most people realize that “family” in this context is relative to other football programs. I think Franklin does care more about his players as students and young adults than most programs. Do other coaching staffs bring their families into the football facilities on a regular basis? That’s also part of his definition of a family environment.

 

[pawildcat]

A college football team isn’t really a business. There is certainly a business side to it but in many ways it isn’t.
For example, if you quit your job at Apple to go work for Google, you can’t go back onto the Apple campus and hang out with your former coworkers.
I think what Franklin tells kids is that as a member of the Penn State Football team they will be a part of something special. A member of an elite club that dates back more than 100 years and it’s a place where they will always be welcome long after he is gone.
I tend to agree with you when it comes to businesses. For-profit businesses are there to make a profit and if you don’t make them money, you are probably not going to be kept around.
But a college football team isn’t a for-profit business.
Is Franklin going to keep a kid in the starting lineup if he doesn’t help him win games, no, but he’s not going to kick him off the team either, like the pros.
Now the kid may want to transfer to get more playing time and that’s fine. But there are a lot of kids who will stay all four or five years and rarely play in an actual game.

Penn State football is definitely making a profit, and that's why you can have volleyball, soccer and other toys. Same with most of the rest of the B1G.

 

[cjrugger]

LOL...and they paid dearly for it because, in the eyes of the law, were dead wrong. Perhaps you are too.

Money well spent I guess

 

[JeffClear]

Penn State football is definitely making a profit, and that's why you can have volleyball, soccer and other toys. Same with most of the rest of the B1G.

It’s not profit in the traditional sense where the profits are pocketed by the owners of the business.

 

[Obliviax]

Bingo. I guess we can debate the real meaning of family but I think most people realize that “family” in this context is relative to other football programs. I think Franklin does care more about his players as students and young adults than most programs. Do other coaching staffs bring their families into the football facilities on a regular basis? That’s also part of his definition of a family environment.

well...yes they do. I know Ohio State regularly meets with the parents of players and they are invited to events (formal and informal) all the time. I would also submit that Ohio State's program has been superior to PSU's in just about every way (wins, championships, graduation rate, path to the NFL) for at least 15 years. That is not to bash CJF...he has done marvelous things and is improving the program in just about every capacity. But to think PSU's shit doesn't stink is disingenuous and leads to disasters.

It is OK to disagree with CJF from time to time. It is good and healthy.

Money well spent I guess

I thought so. you want someone who gets things done or someone to blow smoke at you. Sorry, don't lie to the kids.

 

[cjrugger]

well...yes they do. I know Ohio State regularly meets with the parents of players and they are invited to events (formal and informal) all the time. I would also submit that Ohio State's program has been superior to PSU's in just about every way (wins, championships, graduation rate, path to the NFL) for at least 15 years. That is not to bash CJF...he has done marvelous things and is improving the program in just about every capacity. But to think PSU's shit doesn't stink is disingenuous and leads to disasters.

It is OK to disagree with CJF from time to time. It is good and healthy.

I thought so. you want someone who gets things done or someone to blow smoke at you. Sorry, don't lie to the kids.

Yup I'm all about lying to the kids. Excellent take away

 

[PSUQBKeeper]

I understand.

I got that crap from an emerging company I was with. Family, family, family. I blew away all expectations and then they fired me. I spend 2.5 years fighting them. I was lucky. The moment they fired me, they wiped my phone and laptop. I was able to recover my inbox and sent messages. Fortunately, I end every email conversation with a "thank you" so had every meaningful email. Over the years of litigation, I deposed five of them. Every-time they lied, my lawyer pulled up an email. I also had them sending documents from their former employers that were protected by NDA's and an email with my female boss calling a co-worker "biggens" (slang for well endowed) when she hit "reply all" with me CCed by mistake. I also had to defend almost four years of expense reports. In the end, they folded and I got paid, plus damages, my attorney's fees plus a little for lost stock options. Two executives were also fired, which I negotiated as part of me agreeing to an NDA. They were trying to manipulate their bonuses and I got a bit of that discussion in their emails in discovery when I was able to get some back and fourth on my annual review when they were plotting how to get rid of me. The final savings grace was they tried to send me an email with an attachment as evidence. it was clear that the email was written by someone who did not write attachment. They tried to slide it in two weeks before trial and I hired an email forensic expert to assure that this was, indeed, the attachment on the server and not just a document made with the same name and printed off. I never got that far as they were going to challenge it at trial and then settled.

So, that is why this is a pet peeve of mine.

 

[Obliviax]

What, you are now going to send me a therapy dog and soothing candles?

LOL, I am gainfully employed by an awesome company that comes to me and says "here are you goals, if you meet them, you will get bonuses. If you don't, you will be fired." I tell them, "I am working here because you've created the best environment for me. As long as that stays true, I'll bust my butt to be your best employee." There is no talk that I am "family" and that we have a love interest or that we will always be there for eachother. We have a professional relationship that is symbiotic. I appreciate they don't lie to me and I don't lie to them either.

 

[PSUQBKeeper]

What, you are now going to send me a therapy dog and soothing candles?

LOL, I am gainfully employed by an awesome company that comes to me and says "here are you goals, if you meet them, you will get bonuses. If you don't, you will be fired." I tell them, "I am working here because you've created the best environment for me. As long as that stays true, I'll bust my butt to be your best employee." There is no talk that I am "family" and that we have a love interest or that we will always be there for eachother. We have a professional relationship that is symbiotic. I appreciate they don't lie to me and I don't lie to them either.

 

[Obliviax]

 

[crazytoadie]

Well, first he is using the word "family" not "fairly". Second, I am not going to get into a kid by kid basis other than to say several have left the program. You perform or you sit the bench. It is competitive. It is NOT family. And, I am going to put this in caps "I AM NOT SAYING CJF IS DOING ANYTHING WRONG". I am just putting it out there than anyone who says "we will treat you like family" when they are not family is not telling the complete truth.

This simply feeds into the "used car salesmen" charge from the press and opposing coaches.

So what do you expect him to do...give every recruit a starting spot as a true freshman? Trying to equate family to playing time or starting is nonsensical. Paterno didn’t start Jay, so I guess he was just a football coach driven by business.

Performance gets you on the field but Franklin isn’t encouraging them to leave without a degree. In fact he pushes them to get their degree in 3.5 years so they can begin a masters while still on scholarship. Sure, players leave sometimes for more playing time, sometimes due to discipline reasons, or sometimes because they aren’t happy but I cannot think of where Franklin pushed a guy out of the program before graduating just because he wasn’t cracking the starting lineup.

Franklin is open that there will be competition. He even stated that he tells them he is recruiting players the next year to come challenge them for their spot. But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t care for them legitimately and do everything he can to help the reach their goals. They might not reach those goals just like your kids sometimes don’t get straight A grades or make varsity or get the lead in the class play but you still support them. I haven’t seen Franklin do anything but support them. If you have then share.

 

[LionJim]

But to think PSU's shit doesn't stink is disingenuous and leads to disasters.

Well, yes. But nobody that I noticed has said otherwise.

 

[Obliviax]

So what do you expect him to do...give every recruit a starting spot as a true freshman? Trying to equate family to playing time or starting is nonsensical. Paterno didn’t start Jay, so I guess he was just a football coach driven by business.

Performance gets you on the field but Franklin isn’t encouraging them to leave without a degree. In fact he pushes them to get their degree in 3.5 years so they can begin a masters while still on scholarship. Sure, players leave sometimes for more playing time, sometimes due to discipline reasons, or sometimes because they aren’t happy but I cannot think of where Franklin pushed a guy out of the program before graduating just because he wasn’t cracking the starting lineup.

Franklin is open that there will be competition. He even stated that he tells them he is recruiting players the next year to come challenge them for their spot. But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t care for them legitimately and do everything he can to help the reach their goals. They might not reach those goals just like your kids sometimes don’t get straight A grades or make varsity or get the lead in the class play but you still support them. I haven’t seen Franklin do anything but support them. If you have then share.

No. And that is why it is not a family.

 

[crazytoadie]

No. And that is why it is not a family.

You’re correct. By definition it is not a family in the nuclear sense. And Franklin’s recruiting pitch is not to adopt the recruits and displace the parents. It is such an outrage to refer to his staff and players hyperbolically as family because he is emotionally invested in them.

I’m glad there are coaches like Harbaugh, Saban, Durkin, Beckman etc out there that focus just on football and don’t worry about academics, degrees, health, or safety. At least there are a few honest and ethic ones left.

 

[nittany119]

Hmmm...no

Business isn't family (unless Mafia). And, as an attorney, you know that this'arrangement' cannot be sustained or enforced. As great as CJF is, it will not survive him if he is no longer HC.

Let me be more clear: CJF isn't in charge. The BOT is. So CJF can say a lot of things, but if he is overruled, means nothing. Was Joe Paterno treated as family in 2011? Were the players "treated like family" when BO'B left? Was John Donovan "Treated like Family" when he was fired in the locker room after the last game? Was DC Shoop treated like family during his law suit? I could go through several players but I don't know their specific one-on-one situations so will not address them.

 

[nittany119]

Well, first he is using the word "family" not "fairly". Second, I am not going to get into a kid by kid basis other than to say several have left the program. You perform or you sit the bench. It is competitive. It is NOT family. And, I am going to put this in caps "I AM NOT SAYING CJF IS DOING ANYTHING WRONG". I am just putting it out there than anyone who says "we will treat you like family" when they are not family is not telling the complete truth.

This simply feeds into the "used car salesmen" charge from the press and opposing coaches.

So we shouldn’t believe that when we eat at Olive Garden we aren’t family?

 

[Art]

So we shouldn’t believe that when we eat at Olive Garden we aren’t family?

When you eat at Olive Garden the least thing that you have to worry about is whether you are family.

 

[AWS1022]

So we shouldn’t believe that when we eat at Olive Garden we aren’t family?

Why would you ever eat at Olive Garden?

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Why would you ever eat at Olive Garden?

When Art wants to eat good in the neighborhood, he heads to Olive Garden

 

[Thomas1945]

Why would you ever eat at Olive Garden?

I go for the bread sticks and to be with a family, any family actually.