IMar to 165
- Thread starter CSauertiegPSU
- Start date
I don't think Martinez will be as good at 165 this coming year as Ringer was last year. Ringer took apart everyone he faced at Nationals, and really just about everyone during the regular season. Martinez very nearly lost his Semi to Ian Miller and squeaked by Nolf in the Finals. It's worth considering that he's moving up a weight too. Having said all that, I expect he'll be very very good at 65 and I'd install him as a slight favorite over Jordan and the field.
Someone might label IMar a slight favorite over Issac Jordan, but that is just being polite. Jordan is never going to beat a healthy Martinez.
There is a possibility Jordan may stay at 65, but it would not surprise me if Issac Jordan decides he would rather compete with the two Bos for the 174 title than compete with IMar for the 165 title.
Just had a chance to look it up. You are in the middle of the jungle it seems. Be safe and careful. You're not that far from Ebola central.
Wow, I think people are sleeping on how good IMAR is. Don't let his performance this year at 157 fool you. He is an all-time great and when not completely gassed because of weight loss, he's a machine. I expect the wrestler we will see at 165 will look a lot like the one that blew through NCAAs his freshman year with only one competitive match.
I have to agree. IMHO, Imar was not as dominant as many expected because of the weight cut. He struggled in the early rounds at BIGs and the quarters and semis at NCAAs when he had to make weight again the next day and then was back to his old self for the finals with plenty of time to rehydrate.
Martinez may have struggled with his weight and that may have hindered some of his performances, but Nolf's talent level had a lot to do with Martinez looking human.
A healthy 165 Martinez is right there with a healthy 165 Dieringer and there is nobody who wrestled in this year's NCAA at 165 going to provide Martinez a challenge.
A healthy 165 Martinez is right there with a healthy 165 Dieringer and there is nobody who wrestled in this year's NCAA at 165 going to provide Martinez a challenge.
Not jungle--it's pretty dry here. Yes, not too far from Ebola territory, but no cases reported in this country, and indeed no cases for over a month in any West African country. It's pretty well over (at least for now). Sadly, though, power is off again and it's feeling pretty hot! Enjoy your electricity!!!
You have a great heart Tom. Well, dry heat is better than moist heat as we both know from SC. Hopefully, the electricity comes on soon. Daily, roaming brownouts are the flavor over there. I used to build cement plants, and all plants in areas like that would have safeguards preventing equipment damage during the daily outages.
Wrestlingnerd is still bummed out over IMar moving up to 165, calling him "short for the weight" haha. Hater sadness.
Electricity back on! Thanks for your thoughts. (Sorry everyone else for this private conversation!!)
Returning at 157 from NCAAs, and how they placed:
- Jason Nolf - 2nd
- Dylan Palacio (Cornell) - 4th
- JoJo Smith (Okla. St.) - 8th
- Chad Walsh (Rider) - 5th
- Brian Murphy (Michigan) - DNP
- Richie Lewis (Rutgers) - DNP
- Jake Ryan (Ohio St.) - DNP
- Tyler Berger (Nebraska) - DNP
- Austin Matthews (Edinboro) - DNP
- Dylan Cottrell (WVU) - DNP
- May Bethea (Penn) - DNP
- Markus Scheidel (Columbia) - DNP
- John Boyle (American) - DNP (I can't recall if he was a JR or a SR)
- Andrew Atkinson (UVA) - DNP
- Russell Parsons (Army) - DNP
- Justin Staudenmayer (Brown) - DNP
- Kamall Shakur (Chattanooga) - DNP
- Aaron Walker (Citadel) - DNP
- Neal Richards (VMI) - DNP
- Bryce Steiert (Northern Iowa) - DNP
- Luke Smith (Central Michigan) - DNP
I don't recall all the redshirts. I believe Mitch Minotti was out due to an injury. In terms of RS Fresh that are joining the competition. Michael Kemerer (Iowa) and Josh Shields (Ariz. St) are the leaders of the pack.
In the above list, Palacio and JoJo are the only ones that are likely to be serious competition for Nolf. He destroyed most of the guys he faced during the year, and went 1-2 against IMar, with IMar winning the NCAA final, 6-5.
IMar has more elite competition returning at 165. Guys could move, but at this point I'd project Isaac Jordan (Wisky), BoJo (Ohio St.), Daniel Lewis (Mizzou), Richie Lewis (Rutgers) and David McFadden (VT) as the top returning guys. Logan Massa (Michigan) and Cenzo Joseph (PSU) are the elite RS Fresh joining the fray. And there is also the wildcard, Chance Marstellar, who is changing schools and moving up to what seems to be a more natural weight class.
- Jason Nolf - 2nd
- Dylan Palacio (Cornell) - 4th
- JoJo Smith (Okla. St.) - 8th
- Chad Walsh (Rider) - 5th
- Brian Murphy (Michigan) - DNP
- Richie Lewis (Rutgers) - DNP
- Jake Ryan (Ohio St.) - DNP
- Tyler Berger (Nebraska) - DNP
- Austin Matthews (Edinboro) - DNP
- Dylan Cottrell (WVU) - DNP
- May Bethea (Penn) - DNP
- Markus Scheidel (Columbia) - DNP
- John Boyle (American) - DNP (I can't recall if he was a JR or a SR)
- Andrew Atkinson (UVA) - DNP
- Russell Parsons (Army) - DNP
- Justin Staudenmayer (Brown) - DNP
- Kamall Shakur (Chattanooga) - DNP
- Aaron Walker (Citadel) - DNP
- Neal Richards (VMI) - DNP
- Bryce Steiert (Northern Iowa) - DNP
- Luke Smith (Central Michigan) - DNP
I don't recall all the redshirts. I believe Mitch Minotti was out due to an injury. In terms of RS Fresh that are joining the competition. Michael Kemerer (Iowa) and Josh Shields (Ariz. St) are the leaders of the pack.
In the above list, Palacio and JoJo are the only ones that are likely to be serious competition for Nolf. He destroyed most of the guys he faced during the year, and went 1-2 against IMar, with IMar winning the NCAA final, 6-5.
IMar has more elite competition returning at 165. Guys could move, but at this point I'd project Isaac Jordan (Wisky), BoJo (Ohio St.), Daniel Lewis (Mizzou), Richie Lewis (Rutgers) and David McFadden (VT) as the top returning guys. Logan Massa (Michigan) and Cenzo Joseph (PSU) are the elite RS Fresh joining the fray. And there is also the wildcard, Chance Marstellar, who is changing schools and moving up to what seems to be a more natural weight class.
I fully expect IMAR to be the leader at 165 but I don't think Imar will be able to bully around the kids at 165 with his strength like he did at 157. I would not be surprised if the stronger kids start making him look Human.
By that I mean he will have to beat more people in close matches like he had to do with NOLF. He of coarse still can do that as he has proven.
By that I mean he will have to beat more people in close matches like he had to do with NOLF. He of coarse still can do that as he has proven.
That is pretty much the universal opinion when top wrestlers move up in weight. However, more often than not it goes the other way. See Deirenger, Taylor, Oliver, Q, Ruth, etc. I could go on and on. I expect IMAR to be as dominant at 165 as he was at 157 and maybe more so.
Yep, 1000 times over.
The only way Martinez struggles with anybody at 165 is if there is a slightly bigger version of Nolf suiting up.
Now now. I am not so certain you got that right. Cael only recruits them, they show up with everything they will need and just go out and wrestle. If a kid doesn't have everything they need as they graduate from high school then they go to Iowa to be taught new techniques and skills.But Zain only worked out, because Cael taught him how to be an elite staller.
Iowa understanding of the world;
Cael = great recruiter, unknown teaching, coaching skills
Penn State wrestlers = natual born supreme wrestlers
Brands = great teacher, coach with vastly improving recruiting skills
Iowa wrestlers = all diamonds in the rough that require the Brands polish to become the greatest in the world
stalling = anybody wrestling an Iowa Hawkeye wrestler.
The world according to Garp Hawkeye.
You are probably going to be right, for some reason I have a feeling that with IMAR his strength can't increase much more than it already is.......boy if I am wrong he is a freak!!
You're right, I stand corrected. Somehow I got ahead of myself. Not sure what I was thinking, because Cael is not capable of teaching anything, including stalling.
Yes, no doubt. For everyone that says Cenzo is going to wreck 165 like Nolf did to 157, it diminishes how awesome Nolf was last year. They are much different wrestlers. Hell, Zain and Nolf are totally different wrestlers, but both are bonus point machines. Zain is a grinder. He is relentless in his attack, finding an edge, and destroying opponents with it. Nolf is more a whip. He is all over opponents, not finding an edge, but creating the edges. Then exploiting them. The seeming ease and fluid nature of his attack make it look easy, but it is the constant threat that kills people.
We haven't seen Cenzo much at 165 folk. But his style at the lower weights is that of a hammer. He has great neutral defense, and is hard to score on (unless your name is Nolf). If he gets up, he forces opponents to take shots that he counters well on. He has needed to improve on his feet offensively, but if that happens he will be tough to beat. That's just my take. Is his offense enough to secure wins? Bonus wins?
But if he can be an AA type guy at 165 right out of the gate, we will have a murderers row from 149-157-165-174 that will be tough to break.
I used to think the right comparison for Cenzo was Molinaro -- certainly they're very similar on feet, with a deadly high crotch and good neutral defense. But that's where the similarities end, unless Cenzo develops that brutal turk on top. Also, Frank opened up a lot of matches in the 3rd by literally beating the snot out of them earlier on, where Cenzo is more likely to open up a lead earlier.
Now I'm starting to think the better comparison may be FR/SO McIntosh -- very good on feet, similar attacks, quicker than opponents. Solid rider who can grow into a scorer on top, but no evidence that he's there yet.
I think he'll find the podium this year. National finalist is wildly optimistic until we see him in folk matches against good D1 opponents. We haven't seen him on bottom, where nearly all freshmen struggle, and we haven't seen a Nolf-like offensive whirlwind to give him extra margin.
Agree, agree, agree with the above. I like what I've seen of Cenzo in FREESTYLE. Let's see how he does on top and bottom before proclaiming he's gonna be wrestling Saturday night. Have you seen what Daniel Lewis does to people when he's on top? Cenzo is going to have to deal with THAT this year for example.
I think he will do well but its often a bumpy road for freshman. Don't let DT, ER, JN, ZR, BO success make you believe they are the norm for a frosh.
I think he will do well but its often a bumpy road for freshman. Don't let DT, ER, JN, ZR, BO success make you believe they are the norm for a frosh.
. I remembered making this prediction awhile back. Wondering if you guys think it's gonna be Zain and Nolf 1..2..in Hodge voting.
Great thread to recycle!
I love going through the old threads after the season although I usually wait a week or two. I only dug this one up because I remember wondering if 2 teammates ever finished 1 2 in the Hodge voting.
Looks like Cenzo turned out ok then?
That was a good call.
How are those shares of stock doing?I have Cenzo with a 3 seed, and IMar a 1 seed.
I also have Accdia Healthcare and Burlington Stores in the stock market,
There were some clues about Martinez's vulnerability in the earlier rounds of this year's championship; he was not dominating and ran out of gas somewhat late in the matches. His victories included 8-5 over Wanzek from Minnesota, 10-5 over Chandler Rogers from Ok. State, and then 2-1 over Isaac Jordan. He wasn't quite living up to his reputation.
And then Cenzo was the better wrestler in the finals. Sweet.
And then Cenzo was the better wrestler in the finals. Sweet.
