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IOWA @ ISU - 3:00 PM ET

Can you imagine the backlash if Tom Brands hit the ref with the challenge brick?..
 
That is NOT what happened. Assistant ref signaled locked hands AFTER Lugo got off his back. Just rewatched it to confirm that is what happened.
That’s not true. The mat Judge signaled it immediately. I was right there on that side of the mat. It was called immediately and actually he held the locked hands signal through the duration of the sequence.
 
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If you watch carefully, you can see the ref say "oh no, Lugo is on his back" and then proceed to make the locked hands call.

That one triggered an audible chuckle over here. If only the match were at Carver, it would have been perfect.
 
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That is NOT what happened. Assistant ref signaled locked hands AFTER Lugo got off his back. Just rewatched it to confirm that is what happened.
Do you have a camera angle that shows both refs during the exchange that I can't find? You're probably thinking of when the second ref actually stepped in to stop the match, but he had his hands up signalling locked hands before that.

Edit: am just seeing the camera angle. hopefully this ends the converation as it's incredibly clear.
 
I'm just not as concerned as some of you.

Nice win by Brands, but at the same time it was one match and he looked limited athletically. That will hold him back against a lot of the better guys at the weight later in the season when everyone is in shape. Shak may very well roll him up.

Degan was just screwed over the by the ref. As NoVa said above, they pulled that call out of their a$$ after Lugo was put on his back. He is a marginal AA at best.

The so called pinning machine at heavy decisioned a marginal wrestler. Warner is good, not great. 141 is a hole. Young is topped out, will continue to look slow against the better guys and I'd be very surprised if he is beating a healthy Deakin this year.

Finally Spencer Lee is a fantastic talent, but he's back to wearing the leg brace and I'm just not sure how long he can continue to wrestle at such a high level with his continued injuries. Why he isn't taking a Olympic Redshirt this year is beyond me. I will be shocked and in awe if he can win Nationals and the Olympic spot this year.

In summary I'm not worried, its more of the same at Iowa. They out condition people early on and then are left scratching their heads when the overtraining results in losses at Nationals.

Meanwhile our coaches have a plan.
This is the most delusional conspiracy posting I've seen from you yet FT. Are you seriously going to deny Degen locked his hands while on top? I mean they went and looked at it on video and immediately confirmed the call because...it was obvious. You can't say somebody got robbed of back points when they used an illegal move to get the back points.
 
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Do you have a camera angle that shows both refs during the exchange that I can't find? You're probably thinking of when the second ref actually stepped in to stop the match, but he had his hands up signalling locked hands before that.

Just the Flo video, which didn't show the assistant ref with the locked hands signal until after the sequence had ended. His signaling locked hands before that is linked above but was not part of the Flo video.
 
Just the Flo video, which didn't show the assistant ref with the locked hands signal until after the sequence had ended. His signaling locked hands before that is linked above but was not part of the Flo video.
Yep, sorry somehow missed that post, but yeah that video clears it up. Signaled immediately. No controversy.
 
Thanks for the video angle, but this is by no means a "tough call." He locked his hands, ref immediately signals, everything after doesn't count.
You can see the locked hands from this angle? I can’t. Please tell me at what time in the video you see the locked hands.
 
You can see the locked hands from this angle? I can’t. Please tell me at what time in the video you see the locked hands.
What you're saying is the equivalent of "the sky is green." But for the record, the hands are locked right from the beginning of this video. If you pause at :02 you can see the lock as Lugo's hips are elevated out of the way. You can see it again at :04 when Degen steps over.

Luckily for both of us, there's a perfect angle in high def of the other side on flo that you can check out for yourself.
 
What you're saying is the equivalent of "the sky is green." But for the record, the hands are locked right from the beginning of this video. If you pause at :02 you can see the lock as Lugo's hips are elevated out of the way. You can see it again at :04 when Degen steps over.

Luckily for both of us, there's a perfect angle in high def of the other side on flo that you can check out for yourself.
For the record, I’m not saying I disagree with the call, but I don’t believe you can see locked hands from this angle. Maybe on the Flo angle which I haven’t watched yet.

The danger zone count in this match was the call the ref really blew.
 
For the record, I’m not saying I disagree with the call, but I don’t believe you can see locked hands from this angle. Maybe on the Flo angle which I haven’t watched yet.

The danger zone count in this match was the call the ref really blew.
If you haven't seen the flo angle, it will completely clear it up. Degen locked his hands while sitting on his butt and cranked Lugo over. Camera angle caught it perfectly.

Danger count was iffy. One of those calls that wouldn't get overturned even if it had been called the other way on the mat. With the danger count, I think there's reaction time when you first get exposed. I know the rule initially described it as being frozen on your back. That would mean there would be at least a second where it would have to be demonstrated you were frozen. That's why you almost always see a 1 second delay when guys expose themselves on leg passes. Watch the Lee/Mackall scramble. Mackall would expose, ref waits 1 second, then starts counting.
 
Yes. Lugo had already reversed Degan making the lock hands call BS. They should have went back and given R2 to Lugo and then R2 plus NF4 to Degan. It was poor officiating.
 
Yes. Lugo had already reversed Degan making the lock hands call BS. They should have went back and given R2 to Lugo and then R2 plus NF4 to Degan. It was poor officiating.
That isn't an option. If they go back and change that to a Lugo reversal, the match restarts from that point with Lugo on top.

And if the ref gives the reversal the first time, Lugo stops driving into the chest lock to score, and Degen doesn't get backs or a reversal, and now he's down 5-2 w/o riding time with a minute to go.
 
That isn't an option. If they go back and change that to a Lugo reversal, the match restarts from that point with Lugo on top.

And if the ref gives the reversal the first time, Lugo stops driving into the chest lock to score, and Degen doesn't get backs or a reversal, and now he's down 5-2 w/o riding time with a minute to go.
The ref should not need replay to recognize an obvious reversal. Poor job all the way around.
 
The ref should not need replay to recognize an obvious reversal. Poor job all the way around.
Okay but you understand that if he gives the reversal, Lugo wrestles differently and there's a good chance that whole sequence doesn't happen right? And then Lugo is just up 5-2 w/ no RT and a minute to go.

Stick to the danger call. That's the call that was actually iffy.
 
Okay but you understand that if he gives the reversal, Lugo wrestles differently and there's a good chance that whole sequence doesn't happen right? And then Lugo is just up 5-2 w/ no RT and a minute to go.

Stick to the danger call. That's the call that was actually iffy.
Lugo wrestles differently? Now that is a BIG REACH.
 
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Lugo is a tough wrestler, but perhaps the very least diverse wrestler in the entire country save the Bull. He would have driven in exactly how he did whether the correct call was made (which it wasn't) or not. He is hardly the type of guy to make sudden strategic adjustments on the fly. Degan is a very weird dude to wrestle and reaches places other wrestlers simply can't reach. His long body wears opponents completely out. I honestly hate watching him most of the time, but it has grown on me.
 
Foley told us Mark Hall was the one with a limited repertoire.

Further proving Foley doesn't understand wrestling. There are ever changing creative wrestlers and there are super solid position wrestlers. Hall would be a complete hybrid of the two styles. Berge would be considered a solid position wrestler. Nolf or Bo would be the ultra creative type. I would call Spencer a super hybrid. Lugo is a position and power guy all the way. It is not a judgement but an observation. We have all seen incredible results achieved from both types. The old term "Iowa style" is generally accepted to mean great position,strong in ties,forward pressure, solid low risk shots and short offence. The bull is the best example of this style I can think of today. Great wrestler but not exactly the type to bring about a trend like the far ankle pass or the winn dixie.
 
So you are saying the Bull is the best example of "Iowa Style" wrestling but he also happens to be the least diverse wrestler in the entire country?o_O
 
So you are saying the Bull is the best example of "Iowa Style" wrestling but he also happens to be the least diverse wrestler in the entire country?o_O

I think you are starting to understand...is it really that hard? Everybody with any wrestling experience can guess the Bull's next action at any point in any match. He does about three total things on his feet,one thing on bottom, and one thing on top. He does them all very well and is very strong. Tom brands was much this way- Brands single and great short offense from front head. It is what it is. Anybody who has ever wrestled at any advanced level already understands this stuff.
 
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I think you are starting to understand...is it really that hard? Everybody with any wrestling experience can guess the Bull's next action at any point in any match. He does about three total things on his feet,one thing on bottom, and one thing on top. He does them all very well and is very strong. Tom brands was much this way- Brands single and great short offense from front head. It is what it is. Anybody who has ever wrestled at any advanced level already understands this stuff.

This is utter nonsense.
 
I'm sure it is way over your head. You will have Eireman to watch next year and you can study closely and see if you notice a style difference between he and the Bull. You probably won't.
 
I think you are starting to understand...is it really that hard? Everybody with any wrestling experience can guess the Bull's next action at any point in any match. He does about three total things on his feet,one thing on bottom, and one thing on top. He does them all very well and is very strong. Tom brands was much this way- Brands single and great short offense from front head. It is what it is. Anybody who has ever wrestled at any advanced level already understands this stuff.
Wow
 
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I guess it like teaching math to dogs. Keep it simple stupid doesn't really even apply. Kyle Snyder clearly understands he needs to better understand the other side of the wrestling spectrum in order to improve. He is amazing in position and his text book attacks. He must improve in ways that Cael/Bo can help him if he hopes to beat the Russian again. This really shouldn't be this hard, but the old Iowa mentality is hard to penetrate.
 
I guess it like teaching math to dogs. Keep it simple stupid doesn't really even apply. Kyle Snyder clearly understands he needs to better understand the other side of the wrestling spectrum in order to improve. He is amazing in position and his text book attacks. He must improve in ways that Cael/Bo can help him if he hopes to beat the Russian again. This really shouldn't be this hard, but the old Iowa mentality is hard to penetrate.
Doubling down with Snyder now. You’re on a roll now. Who’s next?
 
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