Mat Town Open II
- Thread starter nerfstate
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I'll up the challenge for career backup, I'm defining it as never has been entered in the postseason for PSU. So Cassar, Vollrath, English are all out. If they do, they're "the starter" in my book, so even Bo Pipher and Creighton Edsell types are out since they both wrestled a Big Ten for us.
Terrell Barraclough and Dave Evans are both pushing top of the list right now for me. Evans is at least a NQ level (likely closer to R12/R16) guy at 141 and Barraclough outright looks like a fringe AA, hell he just beat Tyler Berger in freestyle. At some programs, that's literally "best wrestler, face of program" types.
We're adding some room guys right now that might end up being that mold as well, talented guys taking a chance here that jumps levels but never quite breaks in. Lucas Cochran might end up being that type if we find a transfer at 197/opt to wrestle Mirasola as a true freshman.
Terrell Barraclough and Dave Evans are both pushing top of the list right now for me. Evans is at least a NQ level (likely closer to R12/R16) guy at 141 and Barraclough outright looks like a fringe AA, hell he just beat Tyler Berger in freestyle. At some programs, that's literally "best wrestler, face of program" types.
We're adding some room guys right now that might end up being that mold as well, talented guys taking a chance here that jumps levels but never quite breaks in. Lucas Cochran might end up being that type if we find a transfer at 197/opt to wrestle Mirasola as a true freshman.
Tshirt. He won 4-1, 4-3 (English), 2-1 OT, 2-1 OT, 3-1 OT to win in 2014. He made Dean Heil look like Jason Nolf.
Ok man,this is getting creepy 🧐
Actually he and Shak were back and forth all season but in the end, Toothpick Tony was the backup.
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Barraclough looks awesome. And if you want to include freestyle, then it’s prob him. But based on college matches alone… Evans has the better record, the better bonus rate, more NQ wins, the only AA dub, and I even like his losses better. He got bonused once, by a NQ in his first ever college tournament, as a freshman, and avenged that loss a week later.
And lost to Shakur Rasheed which is why Rasheed ended up being the starter at 197 after moving up as the 165 backup.
Gonna have to disagree on that definition.
If you beat out the starter for the postseason, sure. But if you got the job because the starter was injured, you may have done very well, maybe even better than the starter would've, but you weren't the starter.
Andrew Johnson served as President but never won the job. He was Lincoln's backup.
Well….that and Rasheed was the high flying scoring monster whereas at the time Cassar hadn’t shown that. The coaches looked at the bonus scenario and decided to go with it. It turned out not to be as hoped.
Hindsight is always 20-20. That Kollin Moore data point (and his win over Lehigh to a lesser extent) showed Cassar had the ability to “turn it on when it matters” Easy to revisit/talk in hypotheticals but I truly think Cassar wins that 197 bracket.
But in Cassar’s own words, he lost the wrestleoff fair and square (in addition to Shak showing way more bonus potential)
I disagree with your criteria. If a guy wrestles in the postseason due to an injury or some other situation, he's still the backup. English and Vollrath never were starters.
Cassar, yes, he went up to 285, won the spot, started the whole year, and went into the postseason. Completely different from Vollrath and English.
Jimmy did not take first. He beat Dieringer in the semis, but lost in the finals.
Cassar certainly earned his starting role. James English had earned it in his final season and got injured again after the Mikey Riciatto match. He wasn’t able to compete again until post season if I remember. And then Cael was forced with a decision to put the oft-injured English on the mat and risk MFF out when points would be needed or whoever replaced him that wasn’t injury prone (Pearsall maybe?). We all know what happened.
Vollrath tho…..I have to agree the all time best backup. Spent a career at opens and scuffles and making historic statements for the blue and white. Beating Dieringer, losing in the first round of scuffle and then reeling off 9 wins to take 3rd. Winning tourneys. He was constantly locked in a 3 way battle to start at 157. I think an injury gave him the nod in his freshman year to literally bring us the Big Ten Championship with the 2-2 record but a pin when we needed the points. Help me remember if he earned the long time starting role in his senior year? And if he did…..cause I’m blanking….he still was the king at PSU as a backup. And a face sadly missed in Rec Hall.
As I remember the Alton at his weight was either hurt and/or in trouble. Dont remember exactly.
Vollrath started and was great. He stepped it up and had a really good year. At the end of the season the Alton at his weight came back and I dont thing he was 100%. If Vollrath got a chance to compete at NCAAs he would have been All American that year.
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In the Match of the Century, no less. Too bad he became the starter at 285 and, thereby, cannot be considered a career backup.
He'll just have to live with the consolation prize - a national championship and beating an otherwise-undefeated 2-timer/Olympic gold medalist twice along the way. LOL.
The point being cassar did not do that much til he went to 285. Part of that was injuries but so be it.
Difficult to discuss when we don’t have an agreed upon definition of “career backup”.
In my mind, we’re talking about guys that never had the chance to see how they could do in the postseason.
Any other definition I can think of for “career backup” is going to be arbitrary at best.
And besides, whether you got there by someone else’s injury or other circumstances, if you’re wrestling in the postseason, you’re the school’s representative when it matters most. That’s a starter in my book. No matter how you became the starter.
In my mind, we’re talking about guys that never had the chance to see how they could do in the postseason.
Any other definition I can think of for “career backup” is going to be arbitrary at best.
And besides, whether you got there by someone else’s injury or other circumstances, if you’re wrestling in the postseason, you’re the school’s representative when it matters most. That’s a starter in my book. No matter how you became the starter.
He was 6-0 in duals as a backup, beat the #1 ranked wrestler in the nation in the most important match he wrestled before becoming a starter, and also notched a win against another 3-time NQ (Jakobsen). The win against Moore by itself puts him on the list.
Except for the part about being a 2-year starter, kinda an issue for "career backup" discussions.
The best career backup in NCAA history might be Stallalonga. He's still backing up.
Well, yeah, but I was responding to the statement "he didn't do much before becoming a starter", which is just not true.
Just randomly looking for other candidates… how about Seth Beitz? 38-11 career record. 15 wins by bonus.
Hard to do comparisons in the pre-wrestlestat era; tremendous amount of work needed to see quality of wins and losses.
Hard to do comparisons in the pre-wrestlestat era; tremendous amount of work needed to see quality of wins and losses.
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I kinda saw it but I don't have any of the important details. He was fighting hard (struggling) to get out from bottom. I turned away for a brief second and when I looked back he was already grasping his leg in visible pain laying on the mat. I'm pretty sure there was already a sleeve on the knee that he appeared to be holding. Bo called over a trainer/medic and shortly after the match was called. That's all I know and it isn't much.
Hopefully it's minor and he can make a full recovery.
I agree, that should be the criteria. A career backup never wrestled in the post-season.
2 year starter? Are you considering his last year at 197 ( 2018, Moore win) a starter? Cael himself couldn't decide who our starter was and we didn't know until days from B10's that Shak would go in posteseason.
Was Cassar in another postseason?
Who had more matches in 2018 season, Shak or Cassar?
Cassar was the starter the year after his title, but re-injured his shoulder and couldn't finish the season.
In retrospect, that is one of the very few instances where Cael and the staff arguably misfired. Cassar lost one early match to Garrett Hoffman by 3 points in what seemed to be a weight cut issue and then one to Holschlag at the Scuffle. After that, he got three consectutive MD's and beat #1 Moore in duals. I had the feeling at the time that meant Cassar was going to take the job going forward.
Shak, to be fair, was blazing his way through the field, with the exception of Darmstadt. And he was B1G runner-up to Moore and placed 7th. So it's not like it was a big blunder. But when Cassar beat #1, I thought he'd be going. Shak wound up losing to Moore at B1Gs and Nationals.
The big difference was that Shak was cradling fools left and right. The bonus points didn't materialize at nationals.
Should of went to nationals the year before. His win at Ohio State should have been his ticket
Note: I responded before reading some other comments about the above situation
I like how a discussion of best career backup became more of an argument over the definition of career backup. Only on the interwebverse. 
Totally forgot that, was thinking he went out on top.
Freakin grown ass man Dom Bradley
Seth wrestled the 2020 postseason at B1Gs and was injured the first match. "Career back-up" is more complicated than it appears. LOL.
How about a best one year starter thread? That's clearly defined, right?
"Clearly Defined?" You are so cute. Define 'Starter". At the beginning of the year? Became the starter in January? Went to several Feb. Tournaments to be eligible for ranking @ Big 10s? You are opening such a Pandora's BoxcutterSeth wrestled the 2020 postseason at B1Gs and was injured the first match. "Career back-up" is more complicated than it appears. LOL.
How about a best one year starter thread? That's clearly defined, right?
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