MSU's starting QB and #1 WR to transfer

[LandoComando]

,

High school kids pay $80k per year to go to IMG Academy so they can get an education and have their athletic skills developed. Are they being abused?

D1 colleges pay the kids by pproviding free tuition, room, board, spending money, and world class training (coaches, facilities, equipment) to develop their athletic skills. I'd hardly say they're working for free. I agree they have the right to hold wherever they want. I just think both parties should be bound by the scholarship/training agreement.

High school kids have the option to pay to go to IMG. They can basically attend any high school they want by moving for free. It's a choice.

The Big Ten makes 1 BILLION a year just on TV money. The scholarship with room and board doesn't begin to compensate them appropriately hence we're seeing NIL and it will continue to grow. We disagree by them being bound. Coaches can run players off whenever they want and kids should be allowed to leave whenever they want for any reason they want. Why should any kid stay somewhere they're unhappy? It doesn't make sense.

 

[Obliviax]

A scholarship isn't real pay when you consider what the schools make. They're essentially working for free and have the right to go to any school they want for an education

Players, today, are not considered "employees". They aren't forced to play college football. But things are changing, and fast. The universities have had the upper hand but several court cases have gone in player's favor and that has led to NIL and transfer portals. A problem the players have now, with unlimited transfers, how much does a team want to invest in developing a player? We are starting to see two types of teams:

1. the first is the old school, recruit and develop teams
2. the second is recruit, but depend on xfers much more significantly

Of course, this is a spectrum with all kinds of flavors in between.

the other thing that is interesting with these kids is that while they are legally adults, most are not mature. My own daughter has her legal rights so I cannot get access to her grades unless she allows me to even though I am paying her fees (weirdly, she can't get assistance because I make too much money). My point here is that many kids may do themselves harm if they don't physically (or mentally) mature until they are in their 20s.

In the end, the players are going to have to consolidate into some kind of union. That will give them collective bargaining so that all players get a minimum level of healthcare, income, benefits. to get that, they'll have to give the NCAA more power in being able to regulate when, how, and what penalties a player wishing to transfer in some kind of collective bargaining agreement.

Right now, players aren't students nor are they employees. that won't stand.

 

[bdgan]

,

High school kids have the option to pay to go to IMG. They can basically attend any high school they want by moving for free. It's a choice.

The Big Ten makes 1 BILLION a year just on TV money. The scholarship with room and board doesn't begin to compensate them appropriately hence we're seeing NIL and it will continue to grow. We disagree by them being bound. Coaches can run players off whenever they want and kids should be allowed to leave whenever they want for any reason they want. Why should any kid stay somewhere they're unhappy? It doesn't make sense.

Players do have a choice of where they attend school and play football. I never said they shouldn't have a choice . I said that once they make a deal with the school it should cut both ways. Arron Judge signed a 9 year deal with the Yankees. He can't change his mind for next year because he is "unhappy".

Also, I think BiG schools GUARANTEE the scholarship for 4 years.

 

[mfb5053]

Thorne is a MASSIVE loss for 2023 Michigan State. This dude almost singlehandedly picked up a team with a mediocre OL, mediocre tailbacks, and an ATROCIOUS secondary and carried them to a near-winning season. Thorne is an excellent QB who simply "makes plays."

This is the biggest single transfer-out loss I believe I've ever seen for a college team.

Caleb Williams says hi!

Oklahoma quarterback Caleb Williams finally commits to USC, following Lincoln Riley

Caleb Williams ended weeks of speculation and joined the USC program, giving Lincoln Riley the most coveted quarterback in the transfer portal.

www.latimes.com

 

[LMTLION]

College is the wild west compared to the freaking nfl for player movement. It has to be regulated before this destroys the sport…. And it will. College football isn’t just for the 100k fans that attend a PSU or OSU game. It is popular because in addition to every PSU there are 10 washington states or arizona states that create national interest. The notion that we can make a super league of 30 schools supported by NIL fueled portal transfers and exclude the 100 other schools is naive.

 

[heckmans]

You are almost certainly right. I can dream though. I want Allar to hit his potential but don't think he will without competition. I certainly don't want him on the field this year if he isn't ready either. Without another arm on the roster, that is what will happen if he isn't.

Hopefully Allar is looking at his NFL prospects as reason to push himself and hit his potential. He's got ~26 games to get ready for the draft

 

[PSUSignore]

Thorne is a MASSIVE loss for 2023 Michigan State. This dude almost singlehandedly picked up a team with a mediocre OL, mediocre tailbacks, and an ATROCIOUS secondary and carried them to a near-winning season. Thorne is an excellent QB who simply "makes plays."

This is the biggest single transfer-out loss I believe I've ever seen for a college team.

That's funny, because MSU fans seem far more upset about losing their best WR and are far less concerned about the QB.

 

[pennstatepelly]

Thorne is a MASSIVE loss for 2023 Michigan State. This dude almost singlehandedly picked up a team with a mediocre OL, mediocre tailbacks, and an ATROCIOUS secondary and carried them to a near-winning season. Thorne is an excellent QB who simply "makes plays."

This is the biggest single transfer-out loss I believe I've ever seen for a college team.

Does Caleb Williams count?

 

[PSUSignore]

A scholarship isn't real pay when you consider what the schools make. They're essentially working for free and have the right to go to any school they want for an education

My salary isn't real pay when you consider what my company and CEO make.

 

[rrdd2021]

Quite simple - MSU is falling apart as all of their money is going to their $95 million HC and nothing left - NIL - for the players

 

[bdgan]

Quite simple - MSU is falling apart as all of their money is going to their $95 million HC and nothing left - NIL - for the players

Schools pay for the head coach. Donors pay the NIL money.

 

[OaktonDave]

That's funny, because MSU fans seem far more upset about losing their best WR and are far less concerned about the QB.

I think the belief is that Noah Kim can be at least as good. Whether that's reasonable or another case of fans falling in love with the back-up for no reason other than him not being the starter remains to be seen.

 

[Marylovesthelions]

Players, today, are not considered "employees". They aren't forced to play college football. But things are changing, and fast. The universities have had the upper hand but several court cases have gone in player's favor and that has led to NIL and transfer portals. A problem the players have now, with unlimited transfers, how much does a team want to invest in developing a player? We are starting to see two types of teams:

1. the first is the old school, recruit and develop teams
2. the second is recruit, but depend on xfers much more significantly

Of course, this is a spectrum with all kinds of flavors in between.

the other thing that is interesting with these kids is that while they are legally adults, most are not mature. My own daughter has her legal rights so I cannot get access to her grades unless she allows me to even though I am paying her fees (weirdly, she can't get assistance because I make too much money). My point here is that many kids may do themselves harm if they don't physically (or mentally) mature until they are in their 20s.

In the end, the players are going to have to consolidate into some kind of union. That will give them collective bargaining so that all players get a minimum level of healthcare, income, benefits. to get that, they'll have to give the NCAA more power in being able to regulate when, how, and what penalties a player wishing to transfer in some kind of collective bargaining agreement.

Right now, players aren't students nor are they employees. that won't stand.

Easier and more ethical to drop all intercollegiate sports to avoid "cheating" players. Let their union boss find training for them
This BS started when they began to allow pros to compete in the Olympics. Liberals break everything, including amature sports. What's next? Unions for nuns?

 

[LandoComando]

Players do have a choice of where they attend school and play football. I never said they shouldn't have a choice . I said that once they make a deal with the school it should cut both ways. Arron Judge signed a 9 year deal with the Yankees. He can't change his mind for next year because he is "unhappy".

Also, I think BiG schools GUARANTEE the scholarship for 4 years.

You're comparing Judge's contract to a scholarship which is illogical. And Judge can absolutely demand a trade. Saying they guarantee it doesn't mean kids aren't run off.

 

[LandoComando]

My salary isn't real pay when you consider what my company and CEO make.

For the job you do it likely is...if not you should leave and go elsewhere.

 

[bdgan]

You're comparing Judge's contract to a scholarship which is illogical. And Judge can absolutely demand a trade. Saying they guarantee it doesn't mean kids aren't run off.

4 years of tuition, room, and board are probably worth $200k.

4 years of professional athletic and training are probably worth $300k.

So yes, for most players they are being compensated quite well. Then they can still sell their NIL.

 

[SEPATOPTEN]

Coach Prime says call me back when 63 more enter.

Coach prime very well could flop.

 

[LandoComando]

4 years of tuition, room, and board are probably worth $200k.

4 years of professional athletic and training are probably worth $300k.

So yes, for most players they are being compensated quite well. Then they can still sell their NIL.

Do they receive actual payment? The answer is no. The education nor the training are acceptable and we're seeing this. You're trying to pretend college football is anything other than a big business.

 

[Wallace Breen]

Do they receive actual payment? The answer is no. The education nor the training are acceptable and we're seeing this. You're trying to pretend college football is anything other than a big business.

Regardless of what you actually think, college football is not a big business at most places. The opportunity to earn a degree and the training are 100% acceptable. They total more than 100K a year at Penn State. The commonwealth (and IRS) must do their duty and begin taxing that 100K (minus the education limit) plus at the prevailing rate immediately if an athlete attempts to profit off of his or her status with a University because it IS taxable income.

 

[LandoComando]

Regardless of what you actually think, college football is not a big business at most places. The opportunity to earn a degree and the training are 100% acceptable. They total more than 100K a year at Penn State. The commonwealth (and IRS) must do their duty and begin taxing that 100K (minus the education limit) plus at the prevailing rate immediately if an athlete attempts to profit off of his or her status with a University because it IS taxable income.

It doesn't matter "at most places" in the P5 it is. You're unwilling to accept what is coming. Are you also thinking bowls are good and the expanded playoff won't kill them? Whatever you want to believe the kids are soon going to get paid on multiple levels as we all know that the scholarship isn't enough when the conference brings in 1B a year just for TV money. BILLION.

 

[Roar More]

If the NCAA doesn't solve the free agency problem in college sports, expect contracts to replace letters of intent.

 

[bdgan]

It doesn't matter "at most places" in the P5 it is. You're unwilling to accept what is coming. Are you also thinking bowls are good and the expanded playoff won't kill them? Whatever you want to believe the kids are soon going to get paid on multiple levels as we all know that the scholarship isn't enough when the conference brings in 1B a year just for TV money. BILLION.

This isn't a matter of not accepting what is coming. It's a matter of what's good for college sports. The current system of unlimited free agency is ruining things. No professional sport has such a thing.

As far as the money goes, non revenue sports are going to be unrecognizable if schools are forced to pay players on top of NIL. That means no money for lacrosse, wrestling, softball, volleyball, field hockey, soccer, etc. Perhaps they could take a bus to Bucknell but they certainly wouldn't be able to fly to Nebraska.

 

[AWS1022]

High school kids pay $80k per year to go to IMG Academy so they can get an education and have their athletic skills developed. Are they being abused?

D1 colleges pay the kids by pproviding free tuition, room, board, spending money, and world class training (coaches, facilities, equipment) to develop their athletic skills. I'd hardly say they're working for free. I agree they have the right to hold wherever they want. I just think both parties should be bound by the scholarship/training agreement.

And don’t forget top notch meal plans, additional outside meals, massive amounts of free clothing and equipment, as well as free tutoring. My son was a walk on baseball player and got all kinds of free stuff….the football players get much, much more. People thinking college athletes are poor, broke kids who can’t afford to take a girl out on a date, are living in the past. They live quite well.

 

[ryoder1]

Whomever Sparty pulls together at QB you can bet they will play like Elway when we come calling.

 

[LandoComando]

This isn't a matter of not accepting what is coming. It's a matter of what's good for college sports. The current system of unlimited free agency is ruining things. No professional sport has such a thing.

As far as the money goes, non revenue sports are going to be unrecognizable if schools are forced to pay players on top of NIL. That means no money for lacrosse, wrestling, softball, volleyball, field hockey, soccer, etc. Perhaps they could take a bus to Bucknell but they certainly wouldn't be able to fly to Nebraska.

I get that but that's where we're headed. Why should football support everyone else? I'm discussing what is. You're discussing what you want.

 

[bdgan]

I get that but that's where we're headed. Why should football support everyone else? I'm discussing what is. You're discussing what you want.

You're twisting things again. I only said 2 things.

1. Unrestricted free agency + universities paying players will kill college sports.
2. Free tuition, room, board, spending money, clothes, and athletic training is a form of compensation. Players aren't working for free.

 

[Online Persona]

And don’t forget top notch meal plans, additional outside meals, massive amounts of free clothing and equipment, as well as free tutoring. My son was a walk on baseball player and got all kinds of free stuff….the football players get much, much more. People thinking college athletes are poor, broke kids who can’t afford to take a girl out on a date, are living in the past. They live quite well.

I still have free apparel from when I was at PSU over 25 years ago.

 

[bdgan]

And don’t forget top notch meal plans, additional outside meals, massive amounts of free clothing and equipment, as well as free tutoring. My son was a walk on baseball player and got all kinds of free stuff….the football players get much, much more. People thinking college athletes are poor, broke kids who can’t afford to take a girl out on a date, are living in the past. They live quite well.

I wish every fan could tour the Lasch Building facilities. Player lounges, nutrition center, game room, lockers, auditorium, position rooms, computer labs, etc.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Easier and more ethical to drop all intercollegiate sports to avoid "cheating" players. Let their union boss find training for them
This BS started when they began to allow pros to compete in the Olympics. Liberals break everything, including amature sports. What's next? Unions for nuns?

Pros were already competing in the Olympics, but just the pros from the Eastern Bloc. At least we leveled that playing field.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

And don’t forget top notch meal plans, additional outside meals, massive amounts of free clothing and equipment, as well as free tutoring. My son was a walk on baseball player and got all kinds of free stuff….the football players get much, much more. People thinking college athletes are poor, broke kids who can’t afford to take a girl out on a date, are living in the past. They live quite well.

And guys who get girls way out of their league due to being an athlete - it’s an intangible, but a pretty sweet benefit nonetheless

 

[tboyer]

It's got to be about NIL money. The combination of unlimited transfer and NIL is going to create unbelievable chaos.

College football is being transformed before our eyes into college-*affiliated* professional football.

The logical step from here is to stop requiring players to enroll as students. And who knows, maybe there's a lawsuit on that one too. If the NCAA is an illegal cartel, the academic requirements are at the heart of the cartel.

 

[PSUSignore]

4 years of tuition, room, and board are probably worth $200k.

4 years of professional athletic and training are probably worth $300k.

So yes, for most players they are being compensated quite well. Then they can still sell their NIL.

You forgot free food, nutrition support, tutoring, football coaching, weight and strength training, medical benefits, free clothes and gear, a little bit of spending cash, etc. The money value of a full ride football scholarship is almost certainly six figures per year at big programs like PSU.

 

[Online Persona]

I think it is likely also about lack of team chemistry. You cannot be a team that brings in about a full classes worth of transfers yearly which screws over those who were patiently working their way up the depth chart and not expect team cohesion to not suffer. The message to the players is you are replaceable at any time and there is no commitment to you from the staff or the school.

 

[PSUSignore]

For the job you do it likely is...if not you should leave and go elsewhere.

I forget the exact number but CEO pay is approaching 200x the pay of their average employee. You seem to feel that the ratio of school revenue to player revenue somehow creates a business case for players to receive more payment. This is not something unique to college football. If you consider the total monetary value of football player's benefits they are on average receiving more money than your average employee.

I don't oppose players getting some money, but your business case doesn't hold any water. And with them getting paid, there absolutely must be rules implemented to manage it. Contracts are needed. Without contracts, scholarship guarantees should go away (they won't, because it'd have to be universal across all programs, but they should). Everyone likes to say coaches can leave whenever they want. That's true, but with massive buyouts due to contracts. So if you want a completely unregulated transfer portal then start implementing player buyouts... they can return a prorated portion of monetary value of the benefits they receive if they want to transfer on a whim.

 

[bdgan]

CEO pay is approaching 200x the pay of their average employee.

$7 million coach salary divided by 200 means average players can only receive $35k compensation.

 

[LandoComando]

You're twisting things again. I only said 2 things.

1. Unrestricted free agency + universities paying players will kill college sports.
2. Free tuition, room, board, spending money, clothes, and athletic training is a form of compensation. Players aren't working for free.

1. I was never discussing "other sports" which is you changing the topic
2. That compensation is not acceptable for what Penn State and other schools bring in and we're seeing that change

You don't have to like this but you need to accept it.

 

[LandoComando]

I forget the exact number but CEO pay is approaching 200x the pay of their average employee. You seem to feel that the ratio of school revenue to player revenue somehow creates a business case for players to receive more payment. This is not something unique to college football. If you consider the total monetary value of football player's benefits they are on average receiving more money than your average employee.

I don't oppose players getting some money, but your business case doesn't hold any water. And with them getting paid, there absolutely must be rules implemented to manage it. Contracts are needed. Without contracts, scholarship guarantees should go away (they won't, because it'd have to be universal across all programs, but they should). Everyone likes to say coaches can leave whenever they want. That's true, but with massive buyouts due to contracts. So if you want a completely unregulated transfer portal then start implementing player buyouts... they can return a prorated portion of monetary value of the benefits they receive if they want to transfer on a whim.

CEO should be paid that amount more than the average employee. When discussing the average employee you're including people that lack any skill that do work that can easily be replaced.

You realize we have that now with the portal, right? If you're going to pay kids it should be a one year contract by both parties. Kids shouldn't stay on the roster if they don't live up to the expectations.

College football is changing--drastically--you can fight it all you want but it's a losing battle.

 

[Zone-Blitz]

I think it is likely also about lack of team chemistry. You cannot be a team that brings in about a full classes worth of transfers yearly which screws over those who were patiently working their way up the depth chart and not expect team cohesion to not suffer. The message to the players is you are replaceable at any time and there is no commitment to you from the staff or the school.

This is what the players wanted though. They demanded to be free to transfer anytime, anywhere and without penalty And to be paid. They got every damn thing they wanted. But It’s not a one way street. Coaches now have to assemble the best team possible by any means possible. Look at what Franklin said after the BW game, he said they’re looking to get another wide receiver and DT, and said they’d be open to any great player regardless of position that wants to come to Penn state. Thats The game now, it’s what the players demanded . Franklin and any other coach is just playing by the new rules

 

[Conewago]

Caleb Williams says hi!

Oklahoma quarterback Caleb Williams finally commits to USC, following Lincoln Riley

Caleb Williams ended weeks of speculation and joined the USC program, giving Lincoln Riley the most coveted quarterback in the transfer portal.

www.latimes.com

Caleb Williams is the most overrated college QB I've ever seen and the most ridiculous Heisman "winner" ever (strong statement but true).

Give him the schedules of any Big Ten East team and he'd have worse numbers than any of Clifford, Taulia, Stroud, McCarthy, or Thorne. USC played a trash schedule and he still actually had worse numbers (against better defenses) than McCarthy, Stroud, or even Clifford. He's a jerk playing in a city full of them, and watching Clifford torch a team that kicked his ass twice was incredibly satisfying.

There's a reason I overlooked him.

 

[Online Persona]

This is what the players wanted though. They demanded to be free to transfer anytime, anywhere and without penalty And to be paid. They got every damn thing they wanted. But It’s not a one way street. Coaches now have to assemble the best team possible by any means possible. Look at what Franklin said after the BW game, he said they’re looking to get another wide receiver and DT, and said they’d be open to any great player regardless of position that wants to come to Penn state. Thats The game now, it’s what the players demanded . Franklin and any other coach is just playing by the new rules

Has giving kids everything that they want ever been a good strategy in anything? Kids rarely have the foresight and experience to know what they truly need. My only experience with kids getting a lot is a couple of cases of those that I knew who came into what seemed like large sums of money to them at a young age and in each case they squandered it and got themselves into trouble. Someone has to be the adult. Someone has to tell kids you don't get everything that you want.