My challenge to the Paterno haters and their BS logic
- Thread starter TenerHallTerror
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And to that I would simply say, explain the top 10 recruiting class that was to be signed in February 2012. Anytime I hear talk about Paterno running the program into the ground or that PSU was so far behind everyone else, I think about that recruiting class. Those top players, with offers from top schools, CHOSE Penn State as it was situated in 2011. They knew exactly what they were getting and they CHOSE Penn State. Why? Why would those kids intentionally choose to go to a program that was behind in conditioning, analyst work and overall player development? Why on earth would they do that? That doesn't make even the slightest bit of sense. So when weighing your anonymous source versus 15+ kids who were staking their very future in football on Penn State and they chose Penn State, I'll take the latter every time.
Yeah, but given all of Penn State's structural advantages (big state that produces a good amount of football talent, access to the Del-Marva and Mid-Atlantic, school that's always on TV and gets a lot of publicity, has a very good history over the last 50 years) ----- it's pretty tough for PSU NOT to have (at least) a top 20 recruiting class.
18-year-old kids aren't the most adept at benchmarking PSU's conditioning and player development programs against other schools. That's not the primary reason they choose a school.
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I don't know.
Whoever the coach is, it's doubtful (although not impossible, of course) that he will handcuff his successor via getting his school in trouble with the NCAA.
So this mysterious coach - at least he has that going for him.
Maybe 30 years ago. But I don't buy for a second that those kids (and more importantly, their handlers) in 2011 didn't know every detail about the PSU program and how PSU compared with other programs before committing. My goodness, we take the time to analyze the strengths and weaknesses of various programs as it pertains to certain recruits and we have nothing at stake but bragging rights. These kids had their very future in football at stake, and undoubtedly most if not all of them believed that future included the NFL. And you think they didn't do their homework? Pure baloney.
So 11 wins in 2005 was great, but 11 wins in 2008-2009 isn't?
If the BS pass interference call doesn't give Iowa the win in 2008, PSU likely goes undefeated and plays for a national championship.
Fair enough. I was focused on the program, but you are both right.
Glad to hear his school's board of trustees is unlikely to scapegoat him. That's certainly a bonus for him.
I believe I have heard that they were still using VHS tapes for practice review when BOB got there. He was apparently floored that Penn State was so far behind in so many things. That is a direct reflection on Paterno. Once Lasch was built the program stopped progressing. That was in 1992.
if you are implying paterno handcuffed the program, I'd love to see your logic. As has been stated a million times but anyone that knows the facts, paterno didn't contribute the the Sandusky problems and, in fact, followed NCAA, University and the law to a T.
And whether he was winning or losing, Joe continued to do things the right way. He continued to graduate players at a very high rate and hold players accountable for their actions.
Speaking of laughably stupid narratives, there is the one that Joe merely punished players by having them clean the stadium one season. The truth was that was a message sent to the entire team to "clean up" their act. He never circumvented legal proceedings or university policies to get players on the field.
That pesky 1994 undefeated year kind of gets in your way. As does developing the #1 and #2 overll picks in the NFL draft in 2000. Oh yeah, the B1G titles in 05 and 09. Plus the overall best record in the B1G from 1994 to 2016 (lots of the last four years with Joe's recruits) .
and yet, I am still outraged
I would hope so. We're defending Joe and therefore are deeply disturbed by a sickening culture problem.
Yet he proved that he could win even while being so far behind.
In your opinion, did "success with honor" also handcuff the program? Joe could have won more games if he only cared about winning.
because it was NEVER about wins. or a cover up for wins. are people really that stupid?? never changed grades, paid players, cheated the system . . . Penn State was held up as a model program by that ass hat Emmert BEFORE the scandal broke. But somehow, the guy who benched Enis for a bowl game over having an agent buy him a suit for an award ceremony, would turn a blind eye to a FORMER coach he actively disliked for allegedly molesting a kid.
It's the perfect crime.
The guy who cared only about winning suspended a star running back and star wide receiver with no outside influence before a bowl game against a loaded Florida team. The star wide receiver was academically eligible under ncaa standards but was not eligible under Joe's standards.
EDIT: TenorHallTerror addressed this point above.
Just like the perfect cover-up is to tell legal counsel and the head of the second mile about it after two doctors with no university affiliation knew about it.
masterfully played by the PSU admins
since we're keeping score, how many felony convictions did the OAG get against PSU admins after 6 years and millions of dollars?? clearly another sign of a massive cover up
I'll take that 2005 team over the 2008 & 2009 teams for sure. Likely a 10-14 point victory.
2005 MSU wasn't overly different from 2008 Iowa ---- the 2005 team went in there and put the Spartans away immediately. The 2008 team let the Hawkeyes hang around, and you saw what happened.
2008 & 2009 were very good. 2005 was great to elite. There is a difference.
The 2006-2011 era encapsulated in 2 sentences:
Rather few losses against teams ranging from terrible to above average.
Very few wins against teams that were very good to elite. (3 against teams that finished the season ranked in the Top 22 --- that's 0.5 per season. Bill O'Brien had the exact same rate.)
True of most programs of that era. You have a handful of elite teams.
Iowa from 2008 - 2010 wasn't elite. They were merely very good.
JoePa went 0-3 against them. In 2 of them (2009-2010), we were significantly outclassed.
Boring old predictable Kirk Ferentz was the superior coach in all 3 games, by a wide wide margin.
Those 3 Iowa games define the 2006-2011 era more than anything. When you have superior talent but can't adjust to what overly-predictable Iowa is doing --- you have coaching issues.
But wait. The coach hasn't been fired had he? There was a time when developing student athletes and giving them an education was the goal of college athletics. Don't you wish we had a coach that would cheat and hide criminal activity to win?
To your last question - of course not. I don't think our current coach has ever cheated or hid criminal activity, nor do I think it likely he will. (of course, nothing in that regards is certain)
Anyway, I think a clear majority of Power 5 college football coaches both today and over the past several decades care very much about "developing student athletes and giving them an education."
I think it's silly to believe that JoePa was in the clear minority in that regard.
I take it you disagree?
Think you meant to post this on the UM board.
True. None of 2008 Penn State, 2009 Penn State or 2016 Michigan should have lost to Iowa. All those games are negatives as regards the resumes of Paterno/Harbaugh.
Really? That was no "BS pass interference call." The safety on that play Anthonty Scirrotto went through the receiver instead of going for the ball causing the pass interference call. If you want to look at why Penn State lost that game focus on the overthrown interception DC threw before Iowa's last drive for the game winning FG. Totally disagree with your undefeated national championship proclamation. USC put an AK job on Penn State on New Year's Day in the Rose Bowl that year and were the far superior team. If that team could not beat USC, how would we have done against Oklahoma or Florida?
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Wrong. The safety played the ball, and the WR went through him. The safety has every right to play the ball. Some would say the ball was even uncatchable for the WR.
It doesn't matter how they would have done against OK or FL, my point was that they "likely play for a national championship". Maybe read a little more carefully next time?
Wrong. The safety cannot GO THROUGH the receiver with contact while going for the ball prior to the ball hitting receivers hands. Go back and watch the play it was not a BS call. We can agree to disagree, but that is what the referee saw and reason for the flag.
Pass interference? Could have gone either way, IMO.
The real problem with that drive --- Iowa picked up FOUR first downs on that drive AFTER the PI call! FOUR!
Our defense couldn't stop Ricky freaking Stanzi at all when the game was in the balance.
I'm talking about progressing the program with facility upgrades, training upgrades, technology upgrades, etc. None of that happened. Everyone in college football caught up to us and then most passed us. That's on Joe.
As for your "overall best record in the B1G from 1994 to 2016"... I have no idea where you got that from but it's wrong.
Did you not read my last post? The safety did not go through the WR, go back and watch the play, it's a BS call. I'm not afraid to post a link to the video, because I'm right!
The reason for the flag was that it was a mistake. Happens all the time, especially in the big ten.
P.S. No response to being called out on your poor reading skills? Just ignore and move on?
People don't realize how weak our schedule was from 2000 to 2011. The Big Ten was down and out OOC scheduling was poor outside of the Bama and Miami series (which we lost all the games in).
Yep. I'm pretty sure that our 1990 win over Notre Dame was our last OOC win against a team that finished the season ranked in the Top 10.
(Oregon finished #11 in 1995, Tennessee finished #12 in 1993, Miami finished #15 in 1999)
Long time.
FWIW, we only had 2 conference wins in the 1993-2011 era against teams that finished the season ranked in the Top 10. OSU 2005 and OSU 2008.
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On a related side note, I'm not so sure if anyone would have beaten USC at that point of that season. Oklahoma and Florida were excellent, but USC was peaking at the end of the season. We were very, very good, but USC just had it going that day.
I remember Fran Ganter saying that he watched USC film and felt they were one of the best teams he had ever seen. The talent level was through the roof, as shown by the number of NFL players that 2008 squad produced.
No shame in losing to them. They were better that day. Earlier in the season, maybe we would have been the better team. Talented, well-coached, good teams all get better as the season goes on. It's why no one wanted to play Penn State in November back in the day. It's why PSU had such a great bowl record under JVP - give him a month to prepare, and he is hard to beat, even against a great team. Hard.... not impossible.
