No Sex Scandal at Penn State, Just A "Political Hit Job"

[LaJolla Lion]

Anyone who has ever served in an administrative capacity is familiar with discussion, debate and conjecture with their colleagues. As an issue is addressed, ideas are exchanged. Do you mean that every option or idea that is presented must be acted upon? Instead, after a range of responses are considered, a preferred action, representing consensus, is taken. Should JFK have launched a preemptive nuclear strike against the Soviet Union in the Cuban Missile Crisis? It was on the table and suggested by some. You are enamored with the word humane?Are you inferring that GS2 and TC knew Jerry sexually abused that boy and labeled their response as "humane?"

So TSM was stood up for reports of CSA. Their mission statement and objectives certainly don't do this. I didn't realize charities also had law and investigative rights? Did Jerry wear a badge after he started TSM...I mean it was his charity. I already stated they didn't know that Jerry was a serial pedophile in this same thread this morning and it was clear that they at least raised an eyebrow as they discussed reporting him to DPW, but decided not to. They made the wrong choice....do people seriously not read what is said or just imagine what they want to read is in these posts. If they called DPW, none of this gets blown back on PSU. TSM is not a reporting agency for CSA, it's a childrens charity. You don't call the fireman's widows club if your house is on fire, you call the actual fire department. Now those wifes probably have an idea on who to call to get the firemen to your house, but you don't call a charity first. It was a courtesy call to TSM, Jack, and really Jerry. They could have easily said call DPW and Jack and let the chips fall where they may. They didn't. Not bad people. Good people with a bad decision. Is that clear. Are you confused with any of what I typed. I'm not telling you to agree with me, but do you understand my opinion?

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

It was reported to the proper agency. No one gave a report of CSA. However, TSM as a child services charity and JR as a specialist in the field, had greater insight and therefore responsibility to determine is he had a serious issue with an employee of his organization. Thank you for your concern , but I think I follow along quite nicely.

No doubt, PSU clearly received an HR Administrative Report of "Suspicious Activity in the Workplace" from Mike McQueary (to say otherwise, means that you believe Mike McQueary, his father and Dr. Dranov [and potentially MM's Mother] all blithely ignored an IN-PROGRESS Anal-Rape of a 10 year old and specifically elected not to call police, but instead leave the child in the custody of the monster, allow the nightmare to continue for the child, go to sleep and report it sometime the next morning after stressed-out 27 year old Mikey had gotten plenty of needed sleep!?!? Huh? WTF? I don't think so and oh yea, it directly conflicts with what all these parties testified to "except" Mikey in regards to the nature of what he actually reported to them!).

So PSU had an Administrative Report of Suspicious Activity in the Workplace that it turned out involved KNOWN AUTHORIZED USERS of the facility. PSU was not comfortable with the manner in which Sandusky was applying the "TSM Use Agreement" that Sandusky himself, the Founder of TSM - and most powerful regulatory-listed "Control Party" at TSM - had negotiated with PSU, so PSU notified Sandusky that they were revoking those privileges that they had granted to Sandusky's Charity via his "Sweetheart Retirement Negotiations". PSU also reported the incident as well as PSU's actions directly to The Second Mile and its CEO as TSM was the PRIMARY CARE ENTITY in regards to the TSM Participant and was also responsible for Sandusky's behavior in regards to TSM Programs, including "Friends Fitness" (TSM had also written a "blanket indemnification" to PSU in regards to their use of PSU Facilities related to TSM Programs!).

What PSU did makes PERFECT SENSE given the circumstances and in regards to the REPORTING PRESCRIBED under Pennsylvania Child Protective Services Law! Morons who post that it was just "luck" that PSU caused the production of a QUALIFYING Report of CSA to be made to DPW/CYS under the PA CPSL Code and that the true "intent" of the PSU Reporters in reporting outside PSU and specifically into the Child Welfare Channel was to keep the incident hidden from the proper authorities and maintain a "conspiracy of silence" are clearly practicing malicious re-creationist propaganda in an effort to recast REALITY to their perverse, self-serving, disgraceful and FALSE agenda.

 

[WeR0206]

Why would they put DPW on the table at all if they had ZERO suspicions?

This has been addressed ad infinitum. If Courtney looked the law up correctly and if Schultz did want to report suspected child abuse, he would have told Schultz that he had to place a call to childline ASAP and submit a written notice to CC CYS within 48 HOURS....not have a verbal chat with DPW two weeks later. The only reason DPW was on the table as an option was if JS pushed back on their directive that his showering behavior was wrong and needed to stop. At first they were going loop in DPW then at some point Curley decided to confront JS directly and only if he disagreed would he bring in DPW. Tim also decided they would tell TSM (a mandatory reporter mind you) regardless of JS' cooperation.

That was the mindset of all the admins if you watched the 2 hr long Spanier interview. The entire 2001 episode was to get JS to stop his inappropriate showering behavior, not them responding to a report of suspected child rape.

 

[marshall23]

So TSM was stood up for reports of CSA. Their mission statement and objectives certainly don't do this. I didn't realize charities also had law and investigative rights? Did Jerry wear a badge after he started TSM...I mean it was his charity. I already stated they didn't know that Jerry was a serial pedophile in this same thread this morning and it was clear that they at least raised an eyebrow as they discussed reporting him to DPW, but decided not to. They made the wrong choice....do people seriously not read what is said or just imagine what they want to read is in these posts. TSM is not a reporting agency for CSA, it's a childrens charity. You don't call the fireman's widows club if your house is on fire, you call the actual fire department. Now those wifes probably have an idea on who to call to get the firemen to your house, but you don't call a charity first. It was a courtesy call to TSM, Jack, and really Jerry. They could have easily said call DPW and Jack and let the chips fall where they do. They didn't. Not bad people. Good people with a bad decision. Is that clear. Are you confused with any of what I typed. I'm not telling you to agree with me, but do you understand my opinion?

Read this again please! Tim did not report CSA to JR or anyone at TSM. He reported an administrative problem with a TSM employee who was observed showering after hours with an adolescent or pre adolescent boy. PSU could no longer host JS and "The Friends and Fitness Program" .
If TC reported CSA to JR, then he (Tim) and JR are both lying.
I have already stated that with the benefit of hindsight, I am sure that TC, GS2 and JR.....and Bruce Heim would all act differently. They all made mistakes. Yet, JR and BH have gotten off with saying they had no idea JS was a pedophile and The PSU3 were indicted and convicted. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but didn't you state that you agree this was a "witch hunt?"
I think what I have a problem with is the selective nature of prosecution. Those who logically knew the least about a nice guy child predator and CSA have been prosecuted and convicted while those who were EXPERTS skated. This doesn't even begin to peal the layers of (at the very least) the monumental failures of every state agency, including the judicial and LE agencies in CC.
So I believe that if one wishes to assume that TC and GS2 along with JVP knew JS was a pedophile and acted to protect him.....it is inconceivable to believe that without similarly indicting all in an administrative capacity at TSM, CYS, DPW CCLE and AG.
I chose to believe that no one believed that JS was a pedophile and were shocked, horrified and yes embarrassed when they realized what was going on right under their respective noses for many years.
Because of the need to protect some, PSU was scapegoated.
I for one, do not find this to be acceptable and it does not constitute justice by my definition.

 

[BobPSU92]

Please take this opportunity to use the Ignore feature.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

Again, where is my defense of the OAG? How about this,,,spot my defense of the OAG in this thread and I'll say BODE is the best. Let me know where I'm stating that.

IF YOU HAVE TO LIE TO MAKE YOUR POINT, maybe it's time you hang it up. Lying about what people said and making things up only further cements that you are GD delusional. You simply cannot stay on topic for a second and have to go to the OAG as apparently your OCD kicks in. Nobody here is cheering on the OAG...nobody is. What in the world makes you make things up like this? Are you seriously that ill?​

Too funny, the guy unrighteously and willy-nilly ascribing clearly FALSE "intent" to people's actions (and "coincidence" to FACTUAL positive outcomes that resulting from the party's actions) in an attempt to besmirch these parties and their employer (IOW, pure propaganda) is lecturing others on being "sick". LOL!!! They say that corruption and rot has fully metastasized when narcissistic maniac employing them has become completely full of himself....and you are strong evidence of that apparently! Only a servile, cowardly, boot-licking, narcissistic, childish, whiny, little piece of garbage such as yourself could be so endlessly self-impressed.

 

[ChiTownLion]

Just curious, but to those who feel Joe (edit: and/or CSS) "made the wrong decision" and/or "should have done more," how do you feel about the passengers on United Flight 11 on 9/11? Should their lives be defined by what they "failed to do" on that fateful day?

 

[no1lion99]

Ray totally agree not an accident.

Could you elaborate Dukie? Are you saying that one of the agencies was called?

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Just curious, but to those who feel Joe "made the wrong decision" and/or "should have done more," how do you feel about the passengers on United Flight 11 on 9/11? Should their lives be defined by what they "failed to do" on that fateful day?

I think your reading what people assume people are saying. There isn't much discussion on Joe, but people bring him in if you question any decision made with PSU.

 

[coveydidnt]

Just curious, but to those who feel Joe "made the wrong decision" and/or "should have done more," how do you feel about the passengers on United Flight 11 on 9/11? Should their lives be defined by what they "failed to do" on that fateful day?

Is this the new Godwin's law? Do you have to jump through this hoop?

 

[coveydidnt]

Could you elaborate Dukie? Are you saying that one of the agencies was called?

I imagine Dukie is saying there's no exculpatory evidence regarding contact of agencies in the notes because ... it doesn't exist, and it's not an accident. They didn't contact.

But of course he can answer for himself. I just thought it was fairly obvious.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

This has been addressed ad infinitum. If Courtney looked the law up correctly and if Schultz did want to report suspected child abuse, he would have told Schultz that he had to place a call to childline ASAP and submit a written notice to CC CYS within 48 HOURS....not have a verbal chat with DPW two weeks later. The only reason DPW was on the table as an option was if JS pushed back on their directive that his showering behavior was wrong and needed to stop. At first they were going loop in DPW then at some point Curley decided to confront JS directly and only if he disagreed would he bring in DPW. Tim also decided they would tell TSM (a mandatory reporter mind you) regardless of JS' cooperation.

That was the mindset of all the admins if you watched the 2 hr long Spanier interview. The entire 2001 episode was to get JS to stop his inappropriate showering behavior, not them responding to a report of suspected child rape.

The simple fact it was on the table and they had to talk with Jerry means they raised some eyebrows. Does it not? It was a bad decision. I'm not saying it was criminal, but it was a bad decision. I find it odd that I can't say that Tim in particular made a bad decision without people here freaking out. I'm not saying they needed to be hung. I wasn't ever cheering on the with hunt that took place. I didn't say the hid this or covered anything up. God forbid anyone dare say mistakes were made not by MM, TSM, or the state...they are all guilty as hell of everything, but NOBODY at PSU ever missed a thing.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

Read this again please! Tim did not report CSA to JR or anyone at TSM. He reported an administrative problem with a TSM employee who was observed showering after hours with an adolescent or pre adolescent boy. PSU could no longer host JS and "The Friends and Fitness Program" .
If TC reported CSA to JR, then he (Tim) and JR are both lying.
I have already stated that with the benefit of hindsight, I am sure that TC, GS2 and JR.....and Bruce Heim would all act differently. They all made mistakes. Yet, JR and BH have gotten off with saying they had no idea JS was a pedophile and The PSU3 were indicted and convicted. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but didn't you state that you agree this was a "witch hunt?"
I think what I have a problem with is the selective nature of prosecution. Those who logically knew the least about a nice guy child predator and CSA have been prosecuted and convicted while those who were EXPERTS skated. This doesn't even begin to peal the layers of (at the very least) the monumental failures of every state agency, including the judicial and LE agencies in CC.
So I believe that if one wishes to assume that TC and GS2 along with JVP knew JS was a pedophile and acted to protect him.....it is inconceivable to believe that without similarly indicting all in an administrative capacity at TSM, CYS, DPW CCLE and AG.
I chose to believe that no one believed that JS was a pedophile and were shocked, horrified and yes embarrassed when they realized what was going on right under their respective noses for many years.
Because of the need to protect some, PSU was scapegoated.
I for one, do not find this to be acceptable and it does not constitute justice by my definition.

Not just "Child Welfare Experts" - Executives of State-Regulated Children's Charity (and one of the largest direct contractors in the State to PA's Child Welfare Agency!) who had a LEGAL OBLIGATION to follow-up on the report and co-investigate it with DPW/CYS under the PA CPSL Code!!! IOW, the "crack PA OAG" floated an intentionally false Presentment supporting intentional false Indictments against parties who were not "Mandatory Reporters" under the applicable code ALL THE WHILE IGNORING the State-Regulated Charity, and its employees, who had a LEGAL OBLIGATION under the Code and PA Law to report the incident! The State then orchestrated a "settlement process" via PSU's corrupt BOT and PSU's checkbook that wrote into the Settlements that the payee could not sue The Second Mile DESPITE TSM giving PSU a "blanket indemnification" at the time PSU provided TSM a "Use Agreement" for their facilities??? (and the existence of the "blanket indemnification" was not revealed until well after the Settlements via a lawsuit that PSU initiated against its Insurer???). Oh yea, AG Corbutt writes a SWIGJ Application on 5/1/2009 regarding the V1 CSA Investigation that he inherited from DPW/CYS in 3/3/2009 describing that The Second Mile is the "ways and means" by which Sandusky is abusing children, but he never goes to TSM to investigate anything or to look for additional victims despite needing no additional authority to walk into TSM whenever he wants as AG???

Only a complete moron could claim that there isn't fingerprints of "protecting" TSM and parties connected to TSM all over this conspiracy!

 

[wensilver]

I'm not buying that for a second. The normal notifications were discussed and a decision to be "humane" instead of cautious was chosen. Was it criminal, nope. Was it the smart decision, nope. They were doing Jerry and TSM a solid which was a bad decision. I know you're balls to the wall over Dr Jack and rightly so, but pointing the finger elsewhere doesn't mean they made a sound decision. TSM was not chosen as a reporting agency, but as a courtesy. Spinning that differently now isn't going to work.

I think we're conflating some issues. You are correct - lots of bad decisions, but it doesn't make these guys evil. It is what it is - shit happened, the media ran with a narrative of "anal rape" and here we are.

However - I have a huge beef with Laura Ditka trying to carry that ball over the goal line for the AG, spike it and do a dance in the end zone - when her complaints about Curley & Schultz also apply to Raykovitz.

The OAG is excusing Raykovitz's behavior. And they did it in front of a judge, a jury & an innocent citizen on whose neck they've been stepping on for years now.

My state can't have it both ways.

 

[PSU2UNC]

LOL... posting a convicted felon's testimony for a retrial... awesome. The guy has nothing to lose, so yeah... give me the victims' testimony every time over that pedo. Do you believe Jerry?

Who I believe isn't the point.

The point is that you treat the victims testimony as absolute truths, but disregarding any testimony that doesn't fit your narrative.

The victims each had something major ($$$) to gain by testifying a certain way.

Sandusky also had something to gain (new trial) by testifying a certain way.

My point is (and has always been) that we have to think critically about all testimony and evidence. Your stance seems to be that we MUST believe anyone who alleges CSA and there is no way they could possibly be lying.

I think most people on this board understand which is these is the rational point of view and which one is in denial.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

I think we're conflating some issues. You are correct - lots of bad decisions, but it doesn't make these guys evil. It is what it is - shit happened, the media ran with a narrative of "anal rape" and here we are.

However - I have a huge beef with Laura Ditka trying to carry that ball over the goal line for the AG, spike it and do a dance in the end zone - when her complaints about Curley & Schultz also apply to Raykovitz.

The OAG is excusing Raykovitz's behavior. And they did it in front of a judge, a jury & an innocent citizen on whose neck they've been stepping on for years now.

My state can't have it both ways.

Again, the corrupt OAG did all this DESPITE Raykovitz being the ACTUAL LEGAL MANDATORY REPORTER, Raykovitz having violated DOZENS of laws given his postion at a REGULATED, State-Licensed Children's Charity AND the PSU Admins having NO REPORTING REQUIREMENT and having violated no PA Law!?!?! Huh? WTF? And this cretin that continually besmirches others' characters has no problem with this picture whatsoever? Go figure, but "he's not a troll" and is doing all this out of "love for PSU"....just ask him, LMFAO!

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I think we're conflating some issues. You are correct - lots of bad decisions, but it doesn't make these guys evil. It is what it is - shit happened, the media ran with a narrative of "anal rape" and here we are.

However - I have a huge beef with Laura Ditka trying to carry that ball over the goal line for the AG, spike it and do a dance in the end zone - when her complaints about Curley & Schultz also apply to Raykovitz.

The OAG is excusing Raykovitz's behavior. And they did it in front of a judge, a jury & an innocent citizen on whose neck they've been stepping on for years now.

My state can't have it both ways.

I agree those 3 aren't evil, but if you can say the state, OAG, DPW, MM, and TSM all made mistakes...why do people here get so upset when you say folks at PSU messed up too. They made a bad call...not evil, not trying to hide anything. Really it seems like it was based on being naive to what Jerry really was. The BoT and admin in November when this all broke really compounded CSS's mistakes in judgement and made it about PSU by firing Joe and pointing the finger at them. You can be pissed off as you want at the world, but sadly the biggest amount of damage to PSU was caused by Jerry (no brainer) and the leadership that made it about PSU instead of the actual criminal. People here are so hyper-defensive at this point that they think saying a bad judgment is basically saying the covered this up. I swear people either are complete idiots or they don't read what is typed. I'm not saying you either wen because it's clear you actually read and comprehend what I am saying.

These horseSh!t imaginary lines in the sand here are beyond old. Some have it in their head that if you say a mistake was made you hate these guys. It's honestly like dealing with children finding out there is no Santa. It's a freaky type of denial.

 

[getmyjive11]

Who I believe isn't the point.

The point is that you treat the victims testimony as absolute truths, but disregarding any testimony that doesn't fit your narrative.

The victims each had something major ($$$) to gain by testifying a certain way.

Sandusky also had something to gain (new trial) by testifying a certain way.

My point is (and has always been) that we have to think critically about all testimony and evidence. Your stance seems to be that we MUST believe anyone who alleges CSA and there is no way they could possibly be lying.

I think most people on this board understand which is these is the rational point of view and which one is in denial.

Sandusky never testified in his trial, so I only had their testimony to go by. If he would have testified and contradicted their story, then I would have had to determine who I felt was being honest. Don't be a potato, this isn't hard to understand. If you are upset about it, go visit the pedo in prison and yell at him for not testifying.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

Who I believe isn't the point.

The point is that you treat the victims testimony as absolute truths, but disregarding any testimony that doesn't fit your narrative.

The victims each had something major ($$$) to gain by testifying a certain way.

Sandusky also had something to gain (new trial) by testifying a certain way.

My point is (and has always been) that we have to think critically about all testimony and evidence. Your stance seems to be that we MUST believe anyone who alleges CSA and there is no way they could possibly be lying.

I think most people on this board understand which is these is the rational point of view and which one is in denial.

Precisely! Every single person who has testified as to what Mike McQueary told them (including MM's own father) about the incident has made a statement that CONFLICTS with Mike's claim that he definitively told them that he definitively eyewitnessed a Criminal Sexual Assault that night and told them he eyewitnessed a Criminal Sexual Assault that night, but somehow this "sworn testimony" is inconvenient for troll-boy, so he ignores it despite his lame protestations about being persecuted for merely relying on "sworn testimony"..... Even Mike McQueary has provided "sworn testimony" multiple times in a PA Court of Law stating that the OAG LIED and provided FALSE INFORMATION in their presentment when they call him an "eyewitness" to their claims because he has stated under "sworn testimony" that he NEVER "saw" or "eyewitnessed" any such thing and NEVER told ANYONE he had!!! But again, this "sworn testimony" (multiple times over) saying the diametric opposite of the OAG's Presentment and Indictment claims (i.e., he was NOT an EYEWITNESS to these claims and only provided "conjecture" in regards to them -- IOW, MM's testimony was not powerful "Direct Evidence" as the state claimed, but was weak "CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE" as he was not an "eyewitness" to "The State's" Indictment claims!). But all of this massively important "sworn testimony" should be ignored because it is INCONVENIENT to this piece of garbage's delusions and agenda.......

 

[PSU2UNC]

Sandusky never testified in his trial, so I only had their testimony to go by. If he would have testified and contradicted their story, then I would have had to determine who I felt was being honest. Don't be a potato, this isn't hard to understand. If you are upset about it, go visit the pedo in prison and yell at him for not testifying.

He testified under oath at his PCRA hearing.

There is no reason to treat that testimony any differently when considering veracity.

 

[Mixolydian]

I agree those 3 aren't evil, but if you can say the state, OAG, DPW, MM, and TSM all made mistakes...why do people here get so upset when you say folks at PSU messed up too. They made a bad call...not evil, not trying to hide anything. Really it seems like it was based on being naive to what Jerry really was. The BoT and admin in November when this all broke really compounded CSS's mistakes in judgement and made it about PSU by firing Joe and pointing the finger at them. You can be pissed off as you want at the world, but sadly the biggest amount of damage to PSU was caused by Jerry (no brainer) and the leadership that made it about PSU instead of the actual criminal. People here are so hyper-defensive at this point that they think saying a bad judgment is basically saying the covered this up. I swear people either are complete idiots or they don't read what is typed. I'm not saying you either wen because it's clear you actually read and comprehend what I am saying.

These horseSh!t imaginary lines in the sand here are beyond old. Some have it in their head that if you say a mistake was made you hate these guys. It's honestly like dealing with children finding out there is no Santa. It's a freaky type of denial.

Why are you so hyper sensitive about people here saying other people made mistakes too, and even very arguably bigger ones on the front end and the back end of Joe and CSS getting involved, and yet have never been blamed for a damn thing? Why does that bother you so much?

That's your own little horseshit imaginary line in the sand that causes you to freak out in your constant soap box rants. Pretty freaky itself.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Why are you so hyper sensitive about people here saying other people made mistakes too, and even very arguably bigger ones on the front end and the back end of Joe and CSS getting involved, and yet have never been blamed for a damn thing? Why does that bother you so much?

That's your own little horseshit imaginary line in the sand that causes you to freak out in your constant soap box rants. Pretty freaky itself.

Thanks...for chiming in.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

I agree those 3 aren't evil, but if you can say the state, OAG, DPW, MM, and TSM all made mistakes...why do people here get so upset when you say folks at PSU messed up too. They made a bad call...not evil, not trying to hide anything. Really it seems like it was based on being naive to what Jerry really was. The BoT and admin in November when this all broke really compounded CSS's mistakes in judgement and made it about PSU by firing Joe and pointing the finger at them. You can be pissed off as you want at the world, but sadly the biggest amount of damage to PSU was caused by Jerry (no brainer) and the leadership that made it about PSU instead of the actual criminal. People here are so hyper-defensive at this point that they think saying a bad judgment is basically saying the covered this up. I swear people either are complete idiots or they don't read what is typed. I'm not saying you either wen because it's clear you actually read and comprehend what I am saying.

Wrong @sshole - nice try though - the biggest amount of damage to PSU was wrought by a corrupt OAG that floated an INTENTIONALLY FRAUDULENT Presentment (False Narrative), INTENTIONALLY FRAUDULENT Indictments (i.e., "charges") for the purpose of conducting knowingly FALSE and MALICIOUS PROSECUTIONS!!!

Nobody at PSU had ANY LEGAL OBLIGATION to "Report" anything - contrary to the OAG's bull$hit claims - but still made a report that resulted in a qualifying Report of CSA to the proper PA Child Welfare Agencies under the applicable LAW, the PA CPSL Code!!! Meanwhile the OAG INTENTIONALLY IGNORED the parties that had a CLEAR LEGAL OBLIGATION under the Code!!! This same OAG then SHIFTED the State's and the State-Licensed Charity's Liabilities for negligence in the matter ONTO PSU via their corrupt Kangeroo Court hookus-pookus to the tune of BILLIONS OF DOLLARS of damage to PSU, PSU Affiliated Parties and the PSU Community, but according to you "what's the big deal here" -- you really are a laughable little piece of $hit with this bull$hit and your "I'm not a troll"....."I'm doing this because I love PSU"....routines.

 

[Mixolydian]

Thanks...for chiming in.

Thanks for ducking a legitimate question. As usual...

 

[WeR0206]

The simple fact it was on the table and they had to talk with Jerry means they raised some eyebrows. Does it not? It was a bad decision. I'm not saying it was criminal, but it was a bad decision. I find it odd that I can't say that Tim in particular made a bad decision without people here freaking out. I'm not saying they needed to be hung. I wasn't ever cheering on the with hunt that took place. I didn't say the hid this or covered anything up. God forbid anyone dare say mistakes were made not by MM, TSM, or the state...they are all guilty as hell of everything, but NOBODY at PSU ever missed a thing.

I don't think anyone here is saying that in hindsight no bad decisions were made, what we're saying is they made the best decision at the time with the information they had (the admins themselves have stood by this notion even during Spanier's trial). There's a big difference.

This is where I think the confusion is arising. According to the admins, the reason DPW was on the table was not to report suspected abuse but for DPW to act as an "independent agency concerned with child welfare" that JS would listen to re: his boundary issues/inappropriate showering behavior needing to stop.

At first Tim was going to have DPW directly give the message that JS' showering behavior was wrong and needed to stop, then Tim decided to deliver that message himself (which Spanier applauded Tim for b/c it asked him to go an extra step and have a difficult convo with JS) and if JS agreed then Tim decided DPW wasn't needed and they would work with JS to inform TSM (I guess Tim viewed using DPW as redundant at that point??). If JS didn't agree then Tim would go on to tell TSM and loop in DPW to do their thing.

This is why it's CRITICAL to understand that the law at the time dictated that suspected abuse be reported to ChildLine ASAP and in writing to local CYS county office within 48 HOURS. So, outside of that 48 hour window, them contemplating involving DPW had to be for something else besides making a report for suspected child abuse, hence they were talking about DPW as an agency that could hammer home their message/new directives if JS pushed back.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Thanks for ducking a legitimate question. As usual...

Sorry I have basically started to tune a few out. Partly because I do say other people made mistakes so your question in itself is false. In fact that is all I really say. I don't get mad when people say TSM, OAG, MM, and state all screwed up...I get bothered when those that crow all day long about what a coward MM is or how corrupt the world is but they can't admit PSU did screw some things up. Now that answer probably will not do for you as that chisel and stone are there and set, but you got your answer.

 

[AvgUser]

Here is TSM's mission statement.

Mission Statement
"The Second Mile challenges young people to achieve their potential as individuals and community members by providing opportunities for them to develop positive life skills and self-esteem as well as by providing education and support for parents and professionals addressing the needs of youth."

Can you post Penn State's Mission Statement? Without looking I'm pretty sure it does not have anything about watching over TSM children.

 

[Mixolydian]

Sorry I have basically started to tune a few out. Partly because I do say other people made mistakes so your question in itself is false. In fact that is all I really say. I don't get mad when people say TSM, OAG, MM, and state all screwed up...I get bothered when those that crow all day long about what a coward MM is or how corrupt the world is but they can't admit PSU did screw some things up. Now that answer probably will not do for you as that chisel and stone are there and set, but you got your answer.

Almost NOBODY here says "PSU" didn't make any mistakes. If you limited your rants to those who do, your stress level would reduce immensely.

 

[getmyjive11]

He testified under oath at his PCRA hearing.

There is no reason to treat that testimony any differently when considering veracity.

Yes there is. He is a convicted criminal who has nothing to lose. It is 100% different now.

Do you believe the convicted pedophile's testimony over the victims'?

 

[2turgisgrimm]

Like Bob sez.....ignore.

Same imbeciles, same lame shit.

Jerry article on Penn Horseshit has less than 30 hits.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Almost NOBODY here says "PSU" didn't make any mistakes. If you limited your rants to those who do, your stress level would reduce immensely.

I don't follow you around like a puppy dog...it's vice versa.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

Almost NOBODY here says "PSU" didn't make any mistakes. If you limited your rants to those who do, your stress level would reduce immensely.

His rants go a lot further than that - he claims that PSU Admins are responsible for all the damage to PSU despite the fact that they clearly did not violate any PA CPS Law....not a clearly INTENTIONALLY FRAUDULENT Presentment and accompanying Indictments enabling the Malicious Prosecution, and liability shifting, from the clearly responsible parties (TSM and DPW/CYS) who had dozens of employees that could have been prosecuted for negligence, FTR, etc...ONTO PSU and PSU Employees despite these parties having no legal accountability, let alone criminal accountability under Child Protective Service and Welfare Laws!

Oh yea, he spews all this bull$hit and propaganda in defense of the corrupt OAG (claiming they are justified in pursuing Malicious Prosecutions based on fraudulent Presentments and Indictments because "he" questions the soundness of some administrative decisions they made in 2001 with perfect hindsight in 2017 despite none of these decisions being born of criminal intent or violating any PA Legal Code!!!). In this whiny, piece of crap, scumbag's world, the responsibility for this travesty does not belong to corrupt OAG prosecutors who intentionally carried out a "political hit job" / "political protection" racket via intentionally fraudulent Presentment & Indictments, but rather is the responsibility of PSU Football, PSU Admins and PSU in general who did absolutely nothing illegal whatsoever in "intent" or action unlike the corrupt OAG which has wantonly trampled the PA Constitution, the Federal Constitution and PA Law in pursuing this case.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

His rants go a lot further than that - he claims that PSU Admins are responsible for all the damage to PSU despite the fact that they clearly did not violate any PA CPS Law....not a clearly INTENTIONALLY FRAUDULENT Presentment and accompanying Indictments enabling the Malicious Prosecution, and liability shifting, from the clearly responsible parties (TSM and DPW/CYS) who had dozens of employees that could have been prosecuted for negligence, FTR, etc...ONTO PSU and PSU Employees despite these parties having no legal accountability, let alone criminal accountability under Child Protective Service and Welfare Laws!

Oh yea, he spews all this bull$hit and propaganda in defense of the corrupt OAG (claiming they are justified in pursuing Malicious Prosecutions based on fraudulent Presentments and Indictments because "he" questions the soundness of some administrative decisions they made in 2001 with perfect hindsight in 2017 despite none of these decisions being born of criminal intent or violating any PA Legal Code!!!). In this whiny, piece of crap, scumbag's world, the responsibility for this travesty does not belong to corrupt OAG prosecutors who intentionally carried out a "political hit job" / "political protection" racket via intentionally fraudulent Presentment & Indictments, but rather is the responsibility of PSU Football, PSU Admins and PSU in general who did absolutely nothing illegal whatsoever in "intent" or action unlike the corrupt OAG which has wantonly trampled the PA Constitution, the Federal Constitution and PA Law in pursuing this case.

Point of clarification since you are again making things up. I said the admin and the BoT in November when this all went down. I don't know if you are misrepresenting everything I say on purpose to make invalid points or you really are that stupid. You must be a BoT licker I guess.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

Almost NOBODY here says "PSU" didn't make any mistakes. If you limited your rants to those who do, your stress level would reduce immensely.

Nobody here says that they believe JS is innocent either, but he doesn't let that get in the way of his conjured, spinning, propaganda, character-assassination "you're a pedophile supporter" rants either, does he?

 

[PSU2UNC]

Yes there is. He is a convicted criminal who has nothing to lose. It is 100% different now.

Do you believe the convicted pedophile's testimony over the victims'?

So you are saying that if he did testify at his original criminal trial (at which point he was not yet a convicted pedophile) and said the same thing he said at his PCRA hearing, that you would have believed him?

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

Point of clarification since you are again making things up. I said the admin and the BoT in November when this all went down. I don't know if you are misrepresenting everything I say on purpose to make invalid points or you really are that stupid. You must be a BoT licker I guess.

Point of clarification, since you're full of $hit as per usual in your representations.... You absolutely have based all your rants on questioning the decisions of PSU Admins made (and ascribing "intent" to their actions) in Feb/Mar 2001 with perfect hindsight in 2017. You have constantly attempted to FALSELY imply that they engaged in some form of illegal conspiracy to protect JS and keep the matter silent when nothing could be further from the TRUTH given that it can be FACTUALLY PROVEN that the PSU Admins made a concurrent report outside of PSU directly to the State-Regulated Entity (and State Child Welfare Contractor) responsible for Sandusky's TSM activities that constituted a qualifying Report of CSA to PA Child Protective Services & Welfare Agencies under the actual PA Code, CPSL - just because the corrupt OAG has chosen to blithely ignore CPSL Code violations (and severe negligence at DPW/CYS), while at the same time pursuing their corrupt Malicious Prosecution of innocent parties, doesn't mean the crimes didn't occur OR that these are not the parties PRIMARILY responsible for failing to stop Sandusky in both 2001 & 1998 boy-genius!

 

[getmyjive11]

So you are saying that if he did testify at his original criminal trial (at which point he was not yet a convicted pedophile) and said the same thing he said at his PCRA hearing, that you would have believed him?

Are you being stupid on purpose? Go back and read what I wrote.

 

[PSU2UNC]

Are you being stupid on purpose? Go back and read what I wrote.

I did read what you wrote and it is not "100% different now." Your dogmatism and inability to think critically is amazing to me. I hope you are getting paid to shill this nonsense. If not, your constant presence on this board is really a sad, sad thing.

 

[getmyjive11]

I did read what you wrote and it is not "100% different now." Your dogmatism and inability to think critically is amazing to me. I hope you are getting paid to shill this nonsense. If not, your constant presence on this board is really a sad, sad thing.

If you would have read what I wrote, you shouldn't have asked the stupid question. So maybe you should read it again and again until you understand. I have made my position on testimony perfectly clear.

 

[PSU2UNC]

If you would have read what I wrote, you shouldn't have asked the stupid question. So maybe you should read it again and again until you understand. I have made my position on testimony perfectly clear.

You've made it clear that you are biased. When the people you want to be telling the truth talk under oath, they MUST be telling the truth and for anyone to even insinuate that they could possibly be lying makes the pedophile enablers.

But when someone who want to be guilty testifies under oath (the same oath, mind you), they must be lying.

You are a piece of work to not even be able to intelligently talk about this subject.