Not sure if people have seen Drew’s post game comments

[Obliviax]

Thanks, Obli, just catching this now. Very nice. Heartwarming even. The kid's a class act.

But honestly, he shouldn't get too self-critical about the INTs. You have to sling the rock. I'd much rather have this version of Drew than last year's when he hesitated for fear of making a mistake. In fairness to him, he wasn't getting a lot of help from his receivers.

As for Franklin, I've always been a fan and loved that he was hired. In recent years I've been mildly critical at times -- accent on the word "mildly" -- but I've remained a supporter of his. I never once called for his departure or wished that would happen. But a lot of people have. I mean, check out the game thread from the first half.

One nice thing about college football is that it only takes one big win to change the conversation, change the narrative, and forgive all past sins. By any measure, Saturday was a big win, and it puts everyone in a warm and fuzzy mood. Me too.

However, this emotional dynamic often works in reverse after a big loss...or sometimes any loss. The warmth and fuzziness tend to evaporate quickly.

With that in mind: Wisconsin...Wisconsin...Wisconsin!

Agree. Passing is much higher risk, higher reward than rushing. And when the D knows you have to pass, like when you go down 14 or are down 7 with less than a few minutes left, you have to be more risky.

The first INT was a great catch by the LBer who, I think, is like 6-5. To me, it is getting used to playing against better athletes. The other INT was when he threw into great coverage, he forced the ball. And even with that, it was a great catch on a deflected ball. The other was the hail mary which I don't care about.

 

[PurposePitch]

First, I don't think the catch was a "spectacular" grab. I think it was a good grab but one I would expect a WR to make. I also submit that there were three drops that may have well invalidated the need for that good catch

That's completely irrelevant to the point that was made. Oy.

 

[PurposePitch]

Allar still would have had a good game but you are correct he still would not have had his moment in the clutch and would be viewed differently. That is the way it goes in life. What if Elway does not make that drive vs Cleveland or Brady getting the benefit of that ridiculous tuck rule? Or what if Garrity does not make the great diving grab in the Sugar Bowl, Testaverde completes the pass to beat us? You could go on and on. Not saying then all those players or teams end up doing nothing but when you try to revise history and predict you realize you really can't. Sports is feast or famine.

You say the exact same skills for Allar, win or lose but not on the mental side which is the biggest thing and impacts the physical side of playing. Fleming drops the pass or whatever and we lose then Allar's confidence and mental psyche are totally different than how it turned out. You could say the same for our kicker.

I say Allar is the exact same, physically and mentally, whether Fleming makes that catch or not.

Yet folks are willing to dump on Allar (and Franklin ... and whoever else is on their list of punching bags) if nothing about them changes, but one outcome, having nothing to do with them, changes ... whereas they celebrate them as "different" and "changed" and "better," even though nothing about them changed.

I'm not talking ... AT ALL ... about what could happen to Allar and Franklin as a result of the outcome ... I'm talking about the judgment of people (like you, apparently), that went from bad to good based on nothing except external factors having nothing to do with those folks.

Allar was a dude back there, regardless of the ultimate outcome of this game (based on a change in a play here, or there, having nothing to do with him) ... he has been. Franklin was a very good coach, regardless of the outcome of this game ... he has been.

 

[tboyer]

I loved how he takes control of the offense. This is no small thing as coach Ks offense is very complex pre snap. Even what he was at wideout he was trying to run the offense

Yes very good point. PSU did a lot of razzle dazzle, looked like really complex stuff, and the team handled it well and that starts with the QB understanding it all.

The team has clearly bought into Coach K's offense. They enjoy the zany plays. It's like putting on a funny ballet -- and then when you get TDs out of it, that's pretty amazing. Reminds me of how the defensive players looked the past two years -- how much they loved playing in Diaz's defense. If you can make the game fun for these guys, they probably engage with it better.

I bet this is the year PSU finally breaks through and recruits some big-time receivers again -- recruits can see players having a good time and being productive. And they will have their pick of great TEs who want to be the next Warren.

 

[tboyer]

Allar was a dude back there, regardless of the ultimate outcome of this game (based on a change in a play here, or there, having nothing to do with him) ... he has been. Franklin was a very good coach, regardless of the outcome of this game ... he has been.

He was a dude. That drive was his defining moment so far in his career. He's flashed before but on that drive it all came together, all the hard work paid off. And he'll be able to draw on that the rest of the season and beyond.

 

[PurposePitch]

He was a dude. That drive was his defining moment so far in his career. He's flashed before but on that drive it all came together, all the hard work paid off. And he'll be able to draw on that -- if he did it once, he can do it again.

Oy.

And if Fleming hadn't come up with that catch, Allar'd still be a dude, as he was before this game ... but folks like you would be shaking their fist at how he's not this, and he's not that, and he's a disappointment. Those folks wouldn't be talking about how he's still a dude.

 

[tboyer]

Oy.

And if Fleming hadn't come up with that catch, Allar'd still be a dude, as he was before this game ... but folks like you would be shaking their fist at how he's not this, and he's not that, and he's a disappointment. Those folks wouldn't be talking about how he's still a dude.

No question, I've been an Allar doubter. But what he showed Saturday was something we hadn't seen before. True, we wouldn't have seen it if Fleming hadn't made a play. It's a team game. One guy makes a play, and that allows another guy to make a play. FWIW Fleming's second catch on that drive was almost a better play because he had to muscle past a big corner who was just mauling him.

 

[africamurphy]

Thank you for illustrating my point.

Again, absolutely nothing would have changed about Allar or Franklin if, for example, Fleming hadn’t come through with that crazy catch … but here you are, comparing one version to an aunt, and another to an uncle … despite being the exact same version … and talking about how this is reflective of them being ready for the moment, or not.

But you tally up those "toss up" moments and you have a legacy. Tom Brady...what if Gronk or Edelman dropped 10% more of his passes...does he still win all those titles in New England? Maybe not. But they caught as many as they did...and dropped very few. And Brady's the GOAT. And the NFL praises him forever...

Allar made two (at LEAST!) key plays in absolute life or death situations on Saturday...and Fleming caught them. And so here we are praising our QB.

That's all. No need to make this a Heidegger's Cat situation of "what ifs"...

 

[Obliviax]

But you tally up those "toss up" moments and you have a legacy. Tom Brady...what if Gronk or Edelman dropped 10% more of his passes...does he still win all those titles in New England? Maybe not. But they caught as many as they did...and dropped very few. And Brady's the GOAT. And the NFL praises him forever...

Allar made two (at LEAST!) key plays in absolute life or death situations on Saturday...and Fleming caught them. And so here we are praising our QB.

That's all. No need to make this a Heidegger's Cat situation of "what ifs"...

agreed...and lets not forget three drops may have resulted in that last drive not being required. At the end of the day, players need to step up and make plays. It isn't Drew against the other team. Football is the ultimate team sport. Everyone has to contribute. On that great catch, somebody missed a block and let a DLman come strait through. Had that not happened, again, a different result potentially.

 

[PurposePitch]

No question, I've been an Allar doubter. But what he showed Saturday was something we hadn't seen before. True, we wouldn't have seen it if Fleming hadn't made a play. It's a team game. One guy makes a play, and that allows another guy to make a play. FWIW Fleming's second catch on that drive was almost a better play because he had to muscle past a big corner who was just mauling him.

You're excusing away bad judgment. If you wonder why people ignore the "common" fans insights, analyses and judgments ... this is why.

And I was referencing the 4th down catch where the corner was grabbing him.

 

[PurposePitch]

But you tally up those "toss up" moments and you have a legacy. Tom Brady...what if Gronk or Edelman dropped 10% more of his passes...does he still win all those titles in New England?

Then Gronk and Edelman would have been out of jobs early in their careers. And Brady still would have been the QB he was. There's a difference between patterns and isolated outcomes.

Maybe not. But they caught as many as they did...and dropped very few. And Brady's the GOAT. And the NFL praises him forever...

Allar made two (at LEAST!) key plays in absolute life or death situations on Saturday...and Fleming caught them. And so here we are praising our QB.

That's all. No need to make this a Heidegger's Cat situation of "what ifs"...

I'm pointing out that Allar was already obviously the QB folks like you didn't think he was ... and you guys are completely willing to flip your opinions based on the results of isolated events that weren't even in his control. He isn't a disappointing QB who can't do this, that or the other if one play goes a different way ... and he hasn't suddenly grown up and become a great kid and player because someone happened to make a play. This is why successful folks in industries like this tune out the noise - it's so vapid and reactionary.

 

[africamurphy]

Then Gronk and Edelman would have been out of jobs early in their careers. And Brady still would have been the QB he was. There's a difference between patterns and isolated outcomes.




I'm pointing out that Allar was already obviously the QB folks like you didn't think he was ... and you guys are completely willing to flip your opinions based on the results of isolated events that weren't even in his control. He isn't a disappointing QB who can't do this, that or the other if one play goes a different way ... and he hasn't suddenly grown up and become a great kid and player because someone happened to make a play. This is why successful folks in industries like this tune out the noise - it's so vapid and reactionary.

Agreed.

But sometimes the circumstances surrounding someone can't be overcome. I'm fully convinced that the OL debacle in 2015 destroyed Hackenberg. The true freshman starter in 2013 didn't have PTSD like the guy who left in 2015. That 2015 Temple game alone (I hate to say it, but I was there for that slaughter) could destroy most QB's psyches.

If Allar can't get anyone to catch his most crucial throws, that erodes his psyche...and yes, he DOES become a different QB than he is today. I don't think we know yet what Allar can be...a future NFL star or a year 1 or 2 cut from the pros (like other PSU blue-chippers Morelli and Hack). Some of that--not all of it--is determined by the development he goes through this season (and next?) at PSU.

 

[Obliviax]

Then Gronk and Edelman would have been out of jobs early in their careers. And Brady still would have been the QB he was. There's a difference between patterns and isolated outcomes.




I'm pointing out that Allar was already obviously the QB folks like you didn't think he was ... and you guys are completely willing to flip your opinions based on the results of isolated events that weren't even in his control. He isn't a disappointing QB who can't do this, that or the other if one play goes a different way ... and he hasn't suddenly grown up and become a great kid and player because someone happened to make a play. This is why successful folks in industries like this tune out the noise - it's so vapid and reactionary.

He hasn't been called on to do it. So far this year, PSU has won games running the ball. His attempts so far this year:

• 17, WVU
• 20 BG
• 21 Kent
• 21 ILL
• 24 UCLA
• 43 USC

One of these is not like the other.

I said, before the game, that the PSU offense had a lot of meat left on the bone and I was talking about the passing game.

Kudos to the receivers as well.

 

[ryoder1]

I say Allar is the exact same, physically and mentally, whether Fleming makes that catch or not.

Yet folks are willing to dump on Allar (and Franklin ... and whoever else is on their list of punching bags) if nothing about them changes, but one outcome, having nothing to do with them, changes ... whereas they celebrate them as "different" and "changed" and "better," even though nothing about them changed.

I'm not talking ... AT ALL ... about what could happen to Allar and Franklin as a result of the outcome ... I'm talking about the judgment of people (like you, apparently), that went from bad to good based on nothing except external factors having nothing to do with those folks.

Allar was a dude back there, regardless of the ultimate outcome of this game (based on a change in a play here, or there, having nothing to do with him) ... he has been. Franklin was a very good coach, regardless of the outcome of this game ... he has been.

Not sure now what point you are trying to make. I think one of your points is we would have been viewing Allar and Franklin differently if we had lost and specifically if Fleming drops the pass or it is incomplete. Yes, I and I freely admit it. The difference is Allar didn't get the result in the clutch moment. Is it all his fault or did he then have a bad game or is he a bad QB who never will get us over the proverbial hump? No, but there still would be a lingering question if he could get us that signature win and make the plays in crunch time.

He is not the same player mentally if we don't score there and one of the Fleming passes is incomplete. He can't be. He has changed because he went through a pressure packed experience and was successful. To me that is cut and dry. Is Rory McIlroy the same golfer after choking away the U S. Open or whatever it was. No.

I think you are trying to somehow argue the person is separated from the results. So Allar throws 5 interceptions a game in the next 5 games and we lose every game. What then? He is still the same player and the same physical abilities at the beginning of the year? Okay so what does that mean? He is still a great QB because the results don't matter? Now I'm hearing you say we are bad fans who criticized Allar and now praise him. Bad fan, bad fan. Apparently in your world we can't do that. Apparently according to you he always was a clutch player even though he wilted in the clutch last year. Taken to extreme and Fleming is wide open and flat out drops it then yeah that is not on Allar but ultimately he is accountable for driving the team down the field.

 

[ryoder1]

No question, I've been an Allar doubter. But what he showed Saturday was something we hadn't seen before. True, we wouldn't have seen it if Fleming hadn't made a play. It's a team game. One guy makes a play, and that allows another guy to make a play. FWIW Fleming's second catch on that drive was almost a better play because he had to muscle past a big corner who was just mauling him.

But apparently he was great player all along and you are a bad fan for doubting him. And if he throws 5 interceptions a game in the next 5 games he is still great.