POLL - Should Mark Hall's Redshirt Be Pulled

[Flying_Tiger]

It had to be done

I voted yes and this is why:

Hall has proven that he will be highly competitive, he is a year older then many true freshman and most importantly OSU has a great team so I think they may need the points.

 

[nyc10007]

Without a doubt. Kid is ready now. Will compete this year for a national title. What's the point of holding him out?

 

[dunkej01]

Jefe, we need to see a 4-5 year world domination plan for the middle weights.

Is this a DT scenario or a Zain situation? I'm perplexed by this.

Wreck gives many impressions that maybe he could be the team leader when zain leaves and would we need the points next year vs this year?

 

[CowboyUp61]

Surprisingly even at this point.

I don't think you need his points. I wish you did!

 

[greenmanRD]

It's close but I voted no. Though a selfish part of me wants to vote yes so we can get 1 1/2 seasons of Suriano, Zain, Nolf, Cenzo, Hall and Bo.

 

[LemonPie]

Yes. I'd maybe give Rasheed a chance against Meyer. But overall, yes.

 

[Lion-around]

I wouldn't pull it yet. See how the starters do against Iowa and tOSU, than decide. I would prefer not to pull his shirt, but if the points are needed, after an assessment of our performance thru the B1G duals, to win the B1G and national tournaments than I would seriously consider it. No need to pull it right now.

 

[El-Jefe]

http://www.flowrestling.org/video/977895-yougotaplan

 

[LemonPie]

I wouldn't pull it yet. See how the starters do against Iowa and tOSU, than decide. I would prefer not to pull his shirt, but if the points are needed, after an assessment of our performance thru the B1G duals, to win the B1G and national tournaments than I would seriously consider it. No need to pull it right now.

Starter. Rasheed is the starter.

 

[El-Jefe]

If it happens, it needs to wait a week until after we crush the Goofers without The Face of Minnesota Wrestling.

 

[KidNittany]

No.

 

[El-Jefe]

To paraphrase James Franklin:

Goofers Goofers Goofers Goofers Goofers Goofers Goofers Goofers Goofers Goofers Goofers Goofers Goofers Goofers Goofers Goofers Goofers

 

[jack66]

I wouldn't pull it yet. See how the starters do against Iowa and tOSU, than decide. I would prefer not to pull his shirt, but if the points are needed, after an assessment of our performance thru the B1G duals, to win the B1G and national tournaments than I would seriously consider it. No need to pull it right now.

Agree, I see this as similar to the decision to pull Snyder's shirt last year. Like Snyder, Hall doesn't need to earn an AQ spot to get in. If called on late he'll be ready to earn his way in at Bigs.

We have time to see where we are at 174 before the decision needs to be made ... if it hasn't been made already.

 

[dropster45]

Here is the equation using my highly evolved Penn State math skills:

Hall competing = 2017 Team National Championship = ability to recruit next "Hall" = More National Championships.

All that said, waiting a bit to make the decision is logical. Why make a decision before you have to?

When is TJ going to post again?

 

[Real-Lion]

It had to be done

I voted yes and this is why:

Hall has proven that he will be highly competitive, he is a year older then many true freshman and most importantly OSU has a great team so I think they may need the points.

For sure...Can't take any chances and without him we would be taking a MAJOR chance....

 

[ev_flores0331]

I think he should compete because at 20 years old he's as physically mature as any freshman. Granted, Brown was like 30 but he lost a couple years to a good cause.

 

[tikk10]

http://www.flowrestling.org/video/977895-yougotaplan

Cael's not big on other people's plans. Which is why it's a good thing this isn't a plan but rather a legally binding poll.

 

[TangSoo]

I'm kind of indifferent but voted yes as a selfish wrestling fan. I do like the idea of keeping the foot on the neck of other programs. I'd hate to see tOSU eek out another title. I think long term they're our biggest threat.
It's a shame we didn't get to do the Scuffle as a team this year. I don't think we need additional data points for Zain, Jason, and Bo. But for the rest of the team, I think it's certainly good info relative to the Mark Hall question. More importantly, I think it would have been great for the individual wrestlers. Like Cenzo getting headlocked by the Stanford kid. I don't expect that to happen again but it's nice to see other styles and have any weaknesses exposed before showtime.
I didn't realize Hall was 20. With a potential OLY redshirt, aah hell, turn him loose this year.
Having said all of that, my money is on us even without him.

 

[El-Jefe]

Here is the equation using my highly evolved Penn State math skills:

Hall competing = 2017 Team National Championship = ability to recruit next "Hall" = More National Championships.

2015: Nico, Zain, Jason, Bo, Nick, and everyone else possible shirts. Team finishes 6th, almost 55 pts out of 1st.

Fall 2015: Suriano and Hall commit.

That 6th place finish really damaged Cael's ability to draw elite talent.

 

[NoVa Lion]

Agree, I see this as similar to the decision to pull Snyder's shirt last year. Like Snyder, Hall doesn't need to earn an AQ spot to get in. If called on late he'll be ready to earn his way in at Bigs.

We have time to see where we are at 174 before the decision needs to be made ... if it hasn't been made already.

Bingo. Well said. If the coaches decide we need his points they will pull his shirt, but it's to early to know what we will get out of either Rasheed or Morelli. The next few weeks worth of duals will tell us a lot.

 

[Ja1339]

I'm really on the fence, but after some thought voted no, for a few reasons.

I like the hutzpa Cael has to say we think we can beat you all without the number one incoming wrestler - love that attitude. Also, If we win this year without Hall, we'll completely demoralize our competitors for 2017-18. My strongest reason is I'd really like to see Mark be a 4 time champ, and I think the red shirt route gives him the best chance to accomplish that. Lastly, I still think we win this year without Hall, but it will certainly be high drama.

 

[purescurve]

Bingo. Well said. If the coaches decide we need his points they will pull his shirt, but it's to early to know what we will get out of either Rasheed or Morelli. The next few weeks worth of duals will tell us a lot.

I can't speak for everyone else but what bothers me is the fact that in some eyes that decision to pull the shirt isn't even fluid. my 2 cents

 

[NittanyChris]

This is split very close right down the middle.

I wonder if Cael has made up his mind and if so, how sure he is of it.

 

[greenmanRD]

Starter. Rasheed is the starter.

Rasheed vs. Geno is going to be interesting. I'm not sure which one is better tbh.

 

[El-Jefe]

Bingo. Well said. If the coaches decide we need his points they will pull his shirt, but it's to early to know what we will get out of either Rasheed or Morelli. The next few weeks worth of duals will tell us a lot.

Delaying or standing pat also challenges the rest of the lineup to win the national title without the safety net.

 

[purescurve]

Delaying or standing pat also challenges the rest of the lineup to win the national title without the safety net.

so you agree he would be a safety net?

 

[Cletus11]

I would say yes only because of his age. I don't think in the end he is enrolled at PSU for 4 full years of wrestling after this year. He is good enough to compete for a national title this year and can help the team win one also. The way Cael recruits, plenty of time to fill that 2020 spot with another high end wrestler. I just feel sorry for Morelli and Rasheed. Although that also gives PSU some depth if a guy get hurt. I would tell Rasheed to put on weight to back up the 184/197 position for the rest of the year as have Morelli at 157/165.

 

[andegre]

I know I've said it multiple times on this board....I think it gets pulled. No info, just gut/mexican food.

 

[matter7172]

I would say yes only because of his age. I don't think in the end he is enrolled at PSU for 4 full years of wrestling after this year. He is good enough to compete for a national title this year and can help the team win one also. The way Cael recruits, plenty of time to fill that 2020 spot with another high end wrestler. I just feel sorry for Morelli and Rasheed. Although that also gives PSU some depth if a guy get hurt. I would tell Rasheed to put on weight to back up the 184/197 position for the rest of the year as have Morelli at 157/165.

This is pretty much my thinking, too. If Hall is beating Morelli and Rasheed in the room (which I have to believe is happening), there is no really good reason not to pull the shirt. Worrying about 4-5 years from now is a great luxury, but so many things can (and will) happen during that time. Hall looks ready to me and I think he will progress more by wrestling in the lineup this year. Yes, it will make 4 titles for him somewhat more difficult (maybe - that's a big set of speculations), but I am convinced he is up to the challenge.

 

[ev_flores0331]

When I said I think Hall should wrestle I didn't consider that he probably hasn't been on his own before. Maybe he needs to acclimate. I mean, the kid forgot to pack a singlet when his sole reason for making the trip was probably to compete. Not meant as a criticism, because I had problems with time management and such when I was first on my own, lol

 

[El-Jefe]

This is pretty much my thinking, too. If Hall is beating Morelli and Rasheed in the room (which I have to believe is happening), there is no really good reason not to pull the shirt. Worrying about 4-5 years from now is a great luxury, but so many things can (and will) happen during that time. Hall looks ready to me and I think he will progress more by wrestling in the lineup this year. Yes, it will make 4 titles for him somewhat more difficult (maybe - that's a big set of speculations), but I am convinced he is up to the challenge.

By that reasoning, Cael messed up big time last year with Cenzo.

 

[kingslayer_85]

wasn't going to vote but saw it was tie at 57 so I threw in the don't pull the redshirt. don't need the points but more importantly what conversations or commitments did Cael make to Mark regarding this, that is probably important

 

[NoVa Lion]

This is pretty much my thinking, too. If Hall is beating Morelli and Rasheed in the room (which I have to believe is happening), there is no really good reason not to pull the shirt. Worrying about 4-5 years from now is a great luxury, but so many things can (and will) happen during that time. Hall looks ready to me and I think he will progress more by wrestling in the lineup this year. Yes, it will make 4 titles for him somewhat more difficult (maybe - that's a big set of speculations), but I am convinced he is up to the challenge.

There is no way for you to know if the bolded part is true, but the coaches and Hall himself DO, which is why so many like myself think the decision should be left to those who know all of the facts, rather than fans who are only looking at things from their point of view.

 

[matter7172]

By that reasoning, Cael messed up big time last year with Cenzo.

In retrospect, he may have. But he got away with it. On the other hand, the fact that you get away with mistakes in the past is no reason to keep making them. I'd say Cenzo was younger and may have been less ready than Hall is currently.

There is no way for you to know if the bolded part is true, but the coaches and Hall himself DO, which is why so many like myself think the decision should be left to those who know all of the facts, rather than fans who are only looking at things from their point of view.

Duh. It's only my opinion, just as it's everyone else's here. If there's something I don't know, I can't include it in forming my opinion. And just as obviously, I/we aren't making the decision. It's just fan discussion.

 

[Flying_Tiger]

Penn State was a clear favorite last year so there was no need to pull Cenzo's redshirt. This year things are much tighter, imo.

 

[CholleyVandine]

I would say yes only because of his age. I don't think in the end he is enrolled at PSU for 4 full years of wrestling after this year. He is good enough to compete for a national title this year and can help the team win one also. The way Cael recruits, plenty of time to fill that 2020 spot with another high end wrestler. I just feel sorry for Morelli and Rasheed. Although that also gives PSU some depth if a guy get hurt. I would tell Rasheed to put on weight to back up the 184/197 position for the rest of the year as have Morelli at 157/165.

There is really nothing exceptional about his age except that he has a January birthday.

He was 19 at the beginning of his true freshman season.

Just like Nick Suriano was. Just like Ed Ruth and Quentin Wright were. Just like Spencer Lee and Daton Fix will be. Plenty guys are younger, and some are older (Gavin Teasdale will be 20). But there's nothing about his age that would seem to make him any less likely to hang around State College through his senior year.

 

[El-Jefe]

Penn State was a clear favorite last year so there was no need to pull Cenzo's redshirt. This year things are much tighter, imo.

Did that stop the panickers from panicking?

 

[ev_flores0331]

Sanderson won four without an official loss, Dake won four without a redshirt, the only thing left is for someone to win four without both a loss and a redshirt. He could make history if he competes this year.

 

[NoVa Lion]

Sanderson won four without an official loss, Dake won four without a redshirt, the only thing left is for someone to win four without both a loss and a redshirt. He could make history if he competes this year.

No he can't as he already has a loss this year. If his redshirt is pulled that loss becomes official.

 

[Dogwelder]

Sanderson won four without an official loss, Dake won four without a redshirt, the only thing left is for someone to win four without both a loss and a redshirt. He could make history if he competes this year.

I like the way you're thinking. He's already lost this year, though. what he CAN still do is win four without ever wearing his team's singlet.