PSU - Oklahoma State Dual Thread
- Thread starter Tom McAndrew
- Start date
What the hell is the 2nd ref doing? He needs to be watching what is going on with the dangerous position of the knee. That should have been stopped early.
Did anyone see Alex Deiringer taking pictures with kids and fans as PSU was getting their trophy. He stayed out for a long time and engaged anyone that walked up to him. Nice to see and very classy.
I continue to be amazed by what some folks think refs, or assistant refs, should or should not do.
In a potentially dangerous situation, at most the assistant ref would be informing the ref to watch the joint. The assistant ref would not have the ability to stop the match, even if they felt either wrestler was in a potentially dangerous situation.
From the rule book:
7.6 Assistant Referee
In tournament competition, it is recommended that one assistant referee be assigned The use of an assistant referee is designed to minimize human error
The assistant referee will be granted the same mobility as the referee; however, the referee will be in control of the match. (this bold is added by me, for emphasis)
Assistant referees must aggressively take part in the officiating of each match.
When possible, the assistant referee should be in a position to observe mat action and the clock simultaneously at the expiration of each period if a towel tapper is not used.
7.7 Assistant-Referee Procedures
7.7.1 Verbal Communication. Verbal communication between the assistant referee and referee is encouraged.
7.7.2 thru 7.7.8 also deal with the Assistant Referee, but don't indicate anything about the assistant ref making calls, stopping action, etc. Quite simply, that's not the role of the assistant ref.
Part of this is on Byers. He called out the 2nd ref by name for not stopping the action for potentially dangerous. Many fans rely on the announcers to know the rules better than they (the fans) do.
Perhaps I was listening to a different broadcast, but Byers said, as he has several times before, that if you are going to have a second ref, than they should let the secomd ref actually do something.
Well then perhaps it's time to change the power of the 2nd ref. When is the last time you have witnessed the benefit of the 2nd ref. And no I do not possess a rule book.
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The power of the 2nd ref gets debated a great deal. The basic conflict in the debate is that the Assistant Ref is there to provide a 2nd set of eyes, to monitor the coaches, to signal for illegal holds or technical violations, to provide input on disputed calls (before video is looked at), yet the referee is in charge. Unless the rules are changed so that both refs are actually making calls (which seems to be what you are advocating), I'm not sure that any changes would be all that substantive.
FWIW, I don't own a college rule book, either. They can be downloaded for free, so I do that every time there is a question about the rules.
So why the Kanaskie reference? I wish McCutcheon would have stayed down the first time, don't you? Further injury with B1Gs two weeks away is not worth it, do you disagree?
"Where 2 are in charge, no one's in charge". Doubt we'll ever see both refs making calls, it would be a fiasco, imo.
Careful with that.
At almost every ref training meeting I've been at (and I've been at more than I care to admit), a number of refs will pull out the rule book and point out a clause, or a sentence, and claim that the rules state that this or that is being called incorrectly by most refs.
It's a common mistake, that I've seen too many times.
The response usually boils down to something about read the entire section, or read the title of the point, so that proper context is provided.
The "aggressively take part in the officiating" line is one that in the context of the section on Assistant Refs seems to indicate that they should be actively involved in their role, and not just being on the opposite side of the Ref (something that does seem to happen too frequently). It does not signify that the Assistant Ref should actually be making calls.
I totally agree. You don't see it at youth matches, or at high school matches. It's rare to even have a 2nd ref in those competitions, except at States or in the playoffs leading to States.
Just think of the DiJulius match at the tOSU dual. Could you imagine the Ref doing a 5 count on moving up from the lower leg, and the Assistant Ref giving swipes for back points? No matter how they resolved that, one coaching staff would be irate, and the fans would be going crazy if it was not in favor of their wrestler.
Simple. He was the king of "encouraging" kids to "stay down" regardless if injured or not. Running joke of many about him through wrestling circles.
I'm not sure what circles you run in but two team titles, a runner-up team and numerous state champs and many more place winners, including the wrestler with the most wins in Penn State history, is no joke. Not to mention years as president of the Pennsylvania Wrestling Coaches Association. Yes, I did wrestle for Ron and had the honor of being his assistant for much of the 80s.
Sadly from the late 80's on he and his teams were regarded so poorly because of the lack of competition they would seek. You definitely drank the Kool-aid and can't see through the sadness. Go to the WPIAL, Lehigh Valley, and the real traditional powers of the state and see what people think of him. Beating teams with half-full line ups tends to get you that reputation.
This all started with a comment about a kid staying down, which as anyone who knows PA wrestling is commonly connected to Kanaskie. Sorry it hurry your feelings so much. Ask Mr. Schneck what he thinks of Kanaskie having his kids stay down while getting pounded.
The "circles" I run with include some of the most knowledgeable and successful people in the sport. Having won 3 state medals and competed and coached at the Div 1 level I can give you an objective opinion.
Hopefully you can get over the running joke that was "out of your circle." We obviously both want to see PA and PSU succeed on a national level.
I'm a little removed from my D4 days, both distance and time, but my school was rivals with Danville and I certainly don't recall anything of the sort. Maybe things have changed over time.
Then again, there's a Kanaskie product on the current PSU roster. I can't believe Cael would accept guys who stay down whether injured or not.
Then again, there's a Kanaskie product on the current PSU roster. I can't believe Cael would accept guys who stay down whether injured or not.
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