PSU vs tOSU
- Thread starter andegre
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Bingo! There is exactly zero evidence to support a prediction of Snyder winning by fall in college, until it actually happens.
PSU will definitely have more bonus points than four. Zain will pin whoever they send out, and that would include Steiber, even though he's not going. With his shoulder the way it is he would no better than the other guys.
Nolf will either tech or pin Jake Ryan. I don't know why anybody thinks Jake Ryan could hold Nolf to a decision when IMar couldn't last an entire match with him.
Morgan McIntosh will bonus whoever they send out as well. He'll at least MD his guy.
You're looking at 15 bonus points from PSU. It will be way too much for tOSU. Outside of HWT for tOSU I'm struggling to find a matchup where I'm sure tOSU can bonus.
Nolf will either tech or pin Jake Ryan. I don't know why anybody thinks Jake Ryan could hold Nolf to a decision when IMar couldn't last an entire match with him.
Morgan McIntosh will bonus whoever they send out as well. He'll at least MD his guy.
You're looking at 15 bonus points from PSU. It will be way too much for tOSU. Outside of HWT for tOSU I'm struggling to find a matchup where I'm sure tOSU can bonus.
Your local head coach doesn't follow NCAA D1 wrestling very closely if he thinks Nolf will not bonus Ryan.
165 will be the one where there will be bonus if Corey goes out there. You guys must really believe in him if you think he's not going to get bonused. He'll keep it interesting for a period or 2 but once he starts to fade like he's been known to do that's where the points will come on
Like how Jordan bonused Lewis? Funny, I saw him ridden like a mule for an entire period with nothing more than a crossface.
My pics..
Mega over Nato 3-0 PSU
Conaway over JDJ 6-0 PSU
Jordan over Jimmy 6-3 PSU
Retherford Pin over whoever 12-3 PSU
Nolf tech Ryan 17-3 PSU
Jordan MD Rasheed or Dec Morelli 17-7 PSU
Bo Dec Martin 20-7 PSU
Courts Dec Cuthc 20-10 PSU
Morgan over Martin dec 23-10 PSU
Snyder MD whoever 23-14. PSU
I hope both Mega and Cutch win to make it worse, but I see one of them winning and the other losing. So it could be Mega losing to Nato and Cutch winning vs Courts..either way same score. I cannot see both Mega and Cutch losing both.
Mega over Nato 3-0 PSU
Conaway over JDJ 6-0 PSU
Jordan over Jimmy 6-3 PSU
Retherford Pin over whoever 12-3 PSU
Nolf tech Ryan 17-3 PSU
Jordan MD Rasheed or Dec Morelli 17-7 PSU
Bo Dec Martin 20-7 PSU
Courts Dec Cuthc 20-10 PSU
Morgan over Martin dec 23-10 PSU
Snyder MD whoever 23-14. PSU
I hope both Mega and Cutch win to make it worse, but I see one of them winning and the other losing. So it could be Mega losing to Nato and Cutch winning vs Courts..either way same score. I cannot see both Mega and Cutch losing both.
If your referring to his pins I know about them he's very dangerous with his cradle, as a matter of fact he's always been dangerous with it since he was in middle school. He could sneak that in the match but in a 7 minute match where I don't expect the cradle to come into play I'll take Jordan by a major
He hasn't faced anybody as good as Bo Jordan. It will be interesting
Don't be surprised if you see Geno wrestle instead of Rasheed.
If Morelli wrestles it might just end up being a decision (no pun intended)
Bonused, as in how many matches has Rasheed LOST by bonus. Not saying it's a given that Jordan does not score bonus points, but IMHO it's a lot more likely outcome.
I took jrod's question to be how many times has Rasheed been the victim of being bonused this year.
In dual meets, the answer to his question is zero times.
If you add in tournaments (Nittany Lion Open & Southern Scuffle), the answer to his question is still zero times. (He lost 1 time at the NLO and 2 times at the Scuffle, and all 3 loses were by decision.)
He has lost 6 times this year. The differential in the score in those loses are as follows:
1. 2 pts (SV)
2. 3 pts
3. 1 pt
4. 2 pts
5. 2 pts
6. 1 pt
BoJo is probably better than any of the opponents Rasheed has faced this year. That said, he's wrestled the following guys:
1. #13 Fierro (CSUB), won 6-0
2. #6 Wilson (Stanford), lost 3-6
3. #15 Brennan (Rider), WBF
4. #16 Faust (Duke), won 5-2
5. #5 Welch (Purdue), WBF
6. #6 Rodrigues (Illini), lost 9-10
I don't think anyone would consider Rasheed the favorite in the match. At the same time, it's tough to argue that Rasheed is likely to be bonused in the match.
FWIW, here's how BoJo has done this year at 165 against ranked opponents and overall
- against #9 Daniel Lewis (Mizzou), won 6-4
- against #6 Steven Rodrigues, won 6-3
- against #7 Chad Welch, major 13-0
In his 7 matches at 165, he has:
2 decisions
2 majors
1 TF
2 pins
As indicated above, he's only bonused 1 of the 3 ranked wrestlers he faced at 165
All of the stats in the world can't tell us what will take place on Friday, so don't draw too many conclusions.
And, for all we know, PSU may send out Morelli on Friday.
I'm wondering about that, too. Upside is that you probably minimize the opportunity for OSU bonus points. Downside is you minimize the possibility of a PSU win and you fail to get Rasheed some valuable mat time with a very good wrestler.
Lewis gassing or not gassing is a non-sequitur. He rode out Jordan in the 2nd period rather easily, and Jordan looked much worse for wear in the 3rd. To his credit, Jordan won in the 3rd anyway. Lewis and Rasheed have a similar style on top. If Jordan gets stuck under for an entire period again, or most of an entire period, he won't have enough time or energy to bonus. From watching his bottom "defense" against Lewis, that is a distinct possibility.
About Rasheed gassing: His largest margin of defeat this season was 6-3 to Wilson, and that was a match where he fell behind early and then waited too long to come back, not gassed. Despite any previous gassing, Rasheed has been nowhere near giving up bonus points all year. Yes, Jordan is clearly better than Wilson, so it could come into play ...
Except, funny thing, Rasheed's gassing has all been on the road. Not once at home.
So who knows, we could both be all wet on this. That's why they wrestle.
Bojo takes on some mystical qualities in the eyes of many Buckeye fans and I'm not sure why. Very good wrestler - yes. Logan Steiber redux - not really.
In their eyes he dominates 174 if he stayed there, but he'd be in trouble on bottom against several of those guys and Nickal would give him absolute fits. At 165, he's not exactly laying waste to everyone either.
To pick him to pin Rasheed, but to pick Zain to merely major whichever bag of meat they send out at 149 is lunacy, but I've seen it posted several times.
Where did you see anyone on the Ohio forum or themat say Bo would get a pin ? Serious question as I haven't seen that.
Lewis not gassing is a factor because does anyone really believe he'd be able to ride out a whole period let alone 2 (Alex Dierenger) if he was tired? Correct Bo is a way better wrestler then the affirmationed and if he doesn't have to be on bottom until the 3rd I believe he'll be fine and judging on Corey's matches against McFadden and Rodriguez I think if he looks like that in the 3rd against Jordan that's when the points will start to come on but I do agree with your last point as well so tomorrow night we shall see
I believe I saw it on the Flo Board, but to be honest it hasn't been many times - I'm just ornery and prone to exaggeration today. I happen to agree with your particular read of that match unless Shakur can shorten the match with an early TD and ride.
I'm mainly pissed it starts so early. Hopefully I can sneak some earplugs on and listen to the first part at work.
Alright here's my calls then:
125- NaTo dec Nico. Want to be wrong here, but I'm going with the champ. Prove me wrong Nico. 0-3
133- Conaway dec JDJ. JDJ is a mystery to me. Think Jordan beats him on hustle. 3-3
141- Gulibon dec. Jordan. Jimmy reminds everyone that he's an All-American. 6-3
149- Zain pin whoever (Burcher). No way Stieber goes into that buzzsaw. 12-3
157- Nolf pin Ryan. Just superior. Send out a below-average ref, it won't matter. 18-3
165- Jordan dec. Rasheed. For some reason I think Corey keeps it to a decision. 18-6
174- Nickal dec. Martin. When Martin is on he can hang, but think Bo wins this again, probably around 3-4 pts I'll say. 21-6
184- McCutcheon dec Courts. Comes down to hustle 24-6
197- McIntosh mdec whoever (Martin?Moore?) agree we bonus here. 28-6
HWT- Snyder mdec Johnson. Don't think we see Nevills out yet. Depending on how the match is going we could see Tavanello. Would downgrade to a decision if so. 28-10 (9)
25,33,41,74,84 could all go either way. 49,57,97 are heavy psu favorite, 65,285 heavy OSU. I'm feeling optimistic (maybe a little too optimistic) and feel they come out and put on a show.
Really looking forward to this one!!
125- NaTo dec Nico. Want to be wrong here, but I'm going with the champ. Prove me wrong Nico. 0-3
133- Conaway dec JDJ. JDJ is a mystery to me. Think Jordan beats him on hustle. 3-3
141- Gulibon dec. Jordan. Jimmy reminds everyone that he's an All-American. 6-3
149- Zain pin whoever (Burcher). No way Stieber goes into that buzzsaw. 12-3
157- Nolf pin Ryan. Just superior. Send out a below-average ref, it won't matter. 18-3
165- Jordan dec. Rasheed. For some reason I think Corey keeps it to a decision. 18-6
174- Nickal dec. Martin. When Martin is on he can hang, but think Bo wins this again, probably around 3-4 pts I'll say. 21-6
184- McCutcheon dec Courts. Comes down to hustle 24-6
197- McIntosh mdec whoever (Martin?Moore?) agree we bonus here. 28-6
HWT- Snyder mdec Johnson. Don't think we see Nevills out yet. Depending on how the match is going we could see Tavanello. Would downgrade to a decision if so. 28-10 (9)
25,33,41,74,84 could all go either way. 49,57,97 are heavy psu favorite, 65,285 heavy OSU. I'm feeling optimistic (maybe a little too optimistic) and feel they come out and put on a show.
Really looking forward to this one!!
For what it's worth ... Rasheed was down by one late in the third (plus Wilson had riding time). They were in netural position, and Rasheed was pushing the pace hard, so much so that Wilson was hit with his second stall call. At the very end, with the match tied and Wilson holding the riding time advantage, Rasheed took a desperation shot and got taken down. He definitely didn't gas.
Strongly concur! Nolf by a mile. Still don't think he will beat IMAR in the B10 or NCAA, but I do like that there's finally good competition at that weight.
If my HS team's bus is slow and makes me get home late to watch the dual, the driver will lose by bonus... Guaranteed.
125 nico grinds out a close win in what may be the most entertaining match of the night.
133 conaway's motor wears the OSU kid out.
141 jimmy against michigan wrestled with a ton of energy, urgency and physicality. I have no idea if he beats Jordan, but it will not surprise me.
149 zain either piles the points up too fast and gets the tech before the pin or he just pins whoever OSU sends out.
157 Somebody is getting blitzed or pinned.
165 everybody has simply assigned a bonus point to ohio state. Penn State kids rarely get majored. BoJo probably wins, but my guess is he is more likely to b wrestling his rear off in the third trying to win as opposed to trying for a bonus point.
174 it is more likely Penn State's Bo will be chasing a bonus point than Ohio State's.
184 this is McCutchen's match to win, he simply needs to finish a couple take downs and keep attacking.
197 regardless who the nature nuts send out at 97, Morgan will have his way with him.
Heavy if Nick is gonna wrestle this season I would not be surprised to see him here.
A lot of folks seem to think this is gonna be a close and competitive match. For that to be the case the nature nuts would have to win all the toss ups. Based on the way Penn State has been wrestling I have to believe the Nits win the majority of the tossups and at the end of the match most people will be uttering "I did't see that coming".
Penn State 30 Ohio State 9.
133 conaway's motor wears the OSU kid out.
141 jimmy against michigan wrestled with a ton of energy, urgency and physicality. I have no idea if he beats Jordan, but it will not surprise me.
149 zain either piles the points up too fast and gets the tech before the pin or he just pins whoever OSU sends out.
157 Somebody is getting blitzed or pinned.
165 everybody has simply assigned a bonus point to ohio state. Penn State kids rarely get majored. BoJo probably wins, but my guess is he is more likely to b wrestling his rear off in the third trying to win as opposed to trying for a bonus point.
174 it is more likely Penn State's Bo will be chasing a bonus point than Ohio State's.
184 this is McCutchen's match to win, he simply needs to finish a couple take downs and keep attacking.
197 regardless who the nature nuts send out at 97, Morgan will have his way with him.
Heavy if Nick is gonna wrestle this season I would not be surprised to see him here.
A lot of folks seem to think this is gonna be a close and competitive match. For that to be the case the nature nuts would have to win all the toss ups. Based on the way Penn State has been wrestling I have to believe the Nits win the majority of the tossups and at the end of the match most people will be uttering "I did't see that coming".
Penn State 30 Ohio State 9.
Your post regarding Jimmy G and his last match made me realize what it is about Jimmy that seems a little different regarding Jimmy than other "all world", "can't miss", insanely-decorated high schoolers that have come to PSU - I've always had trouble putting my finger on "it" because Jimmy is a great wrestler and seems to always be on the verge of dominance and greatness, but the consistency in terms of "absolute dominance" just doesn't quite materialize. Most of PSU's absolute greatest wrestlers have dominated offensively and been encouraged to "attack, attack, attack" by Cael with a philosophy of a solid attacking offense is the best defense because it keeps the other wrestler defensive and never lets him get to his offense. I seems to me that Jimmy is a great defensive wrestler and is very difficult to score on when he is wrestling "conservatively" (and is capable of beating anyone because of this...but also capable of losing to at one because of this....because it implies a lot of low scoring 1 or 2 point margin of victory matches....doesn't blow people out, doesn't get blown out...). However, when Jimmy has tried to adopt a contant attacking style at the NCAA level early in matches, his defense suffers and he often gives up the early, and first, takedown. This then tacticly makes him conservative as he clearly wants to keep the match within striking distance and choose his oppotunities very carefully. His struggles on bottom have further exacerbated this problem because Jimmy is suceptible to losing the close, low-scoring, 1-pt match by losing the RT-Adv battle.
This is where Jimmy has really differed from PSU's strong of highly-decorated, ultra highly-rated recruits - his ability to carry "the attack" to the opponent while maintaining a very strong fundamental defense that does not expose yourself....the fact that he is not a terribly great "scrambler" also stands out in this regard relative to PSU's string of all-everything high school AAs that have translated their dominance to the collegiate level as eveybody expected Jimmy would. My point is, it isn't just that Jimmy has had trouble "getting to his offense" - it is also the fact that when Jimmy makes a concerted effort to dominate with his offense, his defense often suffers dramatically and he gives up easy TDs...
This brings me to how Jimmy creates a quandry for the coaching staff and tonight's match a classic example. Obviously Cael likes to preach attack and the "Pennsylvania Style", high-bonus philosophy that has taken him to touney Championship after tourney championship (and not just NCAAs, B1Gs and SS too), but do you really preach that as a philosophy to Jimmy in a bout like tonight's where MJ has shown a much more potent and dominant offense....and Jimmy is not the best defensive wrestler when he tries to wrestle ultra-aggressive (and again, is not the greatest "scrambler" either)??? Or do you counsel Jimmy to go out wrestle conservatively, show patience to wrestle in a user low-scoring affair and pick his spots extremely carefully??? I know the staff does not prefer these types of tactics, but as I said, Jimmy and his strongest traits as a wrestler, really create a quandary for this staff in regards to "tactical" gameplan imho.
The thing I have notice with JG his entire career is he lets guys in on his leg deep when he is playing with his headgear. I have seen him wrestle a great match but give up the leg adjusting his headgear far too many times. Haircut? different headgear? Am I crazy or is this really his number one needed adjustment? Maybe I'm imagining it.
You're not imagining it... James. It did happen earlier in the year when JG was adjusting his head gear. Strange observation at the last match against Michigan as I was sitting right in front of Penn State's bench. All of Penn State's wrestlers who have hair that might interfere with their wrestling had their hair, freshly cut. All of them. JImmie Gulibon, Bo Nickal and Morgan McIntosh looked like they just gotten cuts before the match.
Spot on observation JW. Last match... Jimmie came out on fire and showed aggressiveness that I rarely saw all year and he gets the win. At times close and then Jimmy cemented the win in the third.
You're on top of your wrestling... JW!!! Enjoy the spectacle that will be put on tonight. Matches at the Bryce Jordan Center are utterly an amazing show put on by Penn State. It has the feel of a National Tourney final. Sit back and enjoy.
Thank you kind sir- It does have a super bowl feel to it. I have three buddies coming over tonight to eat wings, lie about past exploits, and watch some great wrestling. I so wish I was BJC tonight enjoying the spectacle. I expect many good matches, but I don't think the final score will be very close. Too much firepower in your lineup imo. I will get nothing done at work today. I feel like a little kid at Christmas time. Drive safe and breathe it in fellas! It doesn't get better than this.
I concur. It doesn't get better than this. I can't wait to finish my day, get up to the BJC and post pictures of the match later on... here on the site. It is like Christmas. Waited since year for this match to happen as many Penn State fans and fellow wrestling enthusiast have also. Can't wait for the fireworks to begin. Early match of NT and Nico should be a barn burner... and then I have a feeling there's going to be a ZTrain wreck at 149, followed by a surgical dismantling at 157 and if I saw a Bo "Throw" at 74... my night would be complete. Ummm...The anticipation... is killing me!!!
Seems to be less of a problem for Jimmy this year IMO. An untimely headgear adjustment did, however, cost Rasheed dearly against Massa at the Scuffle.
He might get bonused. It's possible. He's been up and down all year. He has wrestled some guys really tough, beaten some good kids, and lost some head scratchers, too. My point is that there isn't one weight where you look at it outside of HWT where you go, "yeah, that's definitely a bonus situation for OSU." There are three weights for PSU where you can do that. 149, 157, and 197. I think you're looking at 12 bonus points minimum for PSU.
I'm glad to hear that I'm not going to be the only one who will be at less than peak efficiency at work today, JamesP. Can't wait to watch the match.
