The reason you all are going to be on the outside and left out is the Pittsburgh loss. Losses matter plain and simple that's why the committee doesn't view you as equal to tosu. You can't justify being in the playoff regardless of conference championships or head to head when you have more losses than 4 other teams who are currently in the playoffs. If tosu had a weak non conference and zero ranked wins that would be one thing, but they happen to have the best resume in the country. It's the perfect storm for you to be left out, controversial as you may think it is, it's about the 4 best resumes. You can say you're the hottest team in the country over the last 4 games or so, but look at the competition you played against to close out the season, hardly murderers row. While I agree you've all grown as a team since September you don't stack up, or have an overall resume that tosu has. Also you cannot use the argument of head to head to prove your point against tosu and then deny the argument to discredit the head to head loss against Michigan.
Regarding the snub, the truth of the matter is...
- Thread starter lionlurker
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Well no kidding. Head to head against OSU only matters if PSU wins this weekend and you can bet your sweet arse they are praying for a Wisky win because head to head then works in the committee's favor. It doesn't matter as UW or Clemson still has to drop a game, but many feel it will be a joke if PSU wins arguably the toughest division/conference in college football and is left out. When the SEC was king, this wouldn't even be an argument...2 SEC teams would be in.
While I agree that it should be 2 BIG teams in, I don't think the committee has the balls to do that, and because of the Pitt loss compiled with the 39 pt loss to Michigan they still choose tosu, barring a 50 pt win by penn st vs uw
We're not equal to OSU. We beat them. With teams we did not play, or who were not in our conference, you can talk about this eye test, resume BS, but we played them and beat them. That is the way FOOTBALL decides which team is better. That is why it is the tiebreaker for the B1G Championship. that is why they are SECOND in the division.
Someone is going to have to explain to us all why we bother with this whole conference championship stuff, as it turns out.
"While I agree you've all grown as a team since September you don't stack up, or have an overall resume that tosu has."
BS. We beat OSU 2 of the last 3 years if you count the game we were robbed, with their field goal in "extra time." B1G BS, and ref/OSU BS.
Two losses is why you aren't viewed as equal to them, why you're ranked 5 spots lower than them, until you understand that, you will do this round and round debate. Losses matter more than your wins in this case. Why is that so hard to understand? You're not even on the same tier, as far as the committee views it because of your losses, one of which was a blowout
And the media braniacs figured we were dead and buried for at least a decade, maybe longer. It pisses them off to no end that we are back, this is their way of taking the their ball and running away....this new playoff thing was designed to eliminate the exact thing they are doing...what a joke. Like you LionLurker..I could care less about the playoff, right now I feel like I am playing with house money.....but its a shame these players have to pay for something they had nothing to do with...
Sure, overall record can/should still be considered. The debate seems to be HOW to consider it, and how MUCH to consider it.
Assuming we win next week, our winning pct will be .846 (11-2) to Ohio State's .909 (11-1).
Hardly a big difference there, and when you consider that BOTH of our losses were very early in the season while we were experiencing an unusual rash of injuries (remember, the committee claims that injuries are a consideration to them), and OSU's loss is more recent while at full-strength, it doesn't make much sense to give Ohio State a whole lot in the "overall record" category over Penn State.
Again, that's assuming we take care of business this weekend. Obviously, if we don't, the point is moot.
Overall resume includes wins and losses correct? It's not about your wins, it's about your 2 losses and that's what is keeping you out, and that's the explanation you will get Sunday at noon. In the Bcs era you wouldn't have even been in the conversation with 2 losses and a conference championship. The same rule applies but you get the eye test and looking the part equation human element instead of just computers
Whatever you want to do to justify the charade, go ahead. A year from now everybody will look back and see this whole thing for what it is: only two teams matter in the Big Ten, period.
PSU beats UWisky and you'll be wondering...well what now. You like the committee are praying for a Wisconsin win...trust me and I get it.
So how would anything be different if we had beaten Pitt? You just stated that OSU has the best resume in the country and us beating Pitt would have done nothing except strengthen OSU's resume. That's why this whole debate is a slippery slope. It's easy to make the argument when it's PSU on the short end of it, but how about when it's Bama, or OSU, or someone else they really want in the playoff? It's about credibility and trying to maintain it in a system that many question to begin with. They're opening up a can of worms that will come back to haunt them.
In the bus would you have been considered with 4 one loss teams and psu being on the outside at 2 losses? As much as the system has changed, it really hasn't. Making it through unscathed is damn near impossible, one loss usually makes you exit the race, and two is devastating. It has nothing to do with tosu, your main beef should be with Washington and then Clemson.
Assuming we take care of business this weekend...
OSU: 11-1 with their best win vs a Michigan team that lost to an unranked Iowa team two weeks prior, and their second best win being a nail-biter vs the team Penn State just beat (Wisconsin). Their loss being head-to-head, while at full-strength, vs Penn State.
Penn State: 11-2 with their best win head-to-head vs Ohio State. Second best win vs #6 Wisconsin. Third best win a recent BLOWOUT vs the team that just beat #5 Michigan. Also add in a win vs potential-conference-champ Temple. Their losses being all the way back in weeks 2 and 4 decimated with injuries -- against #5 team and the team that gave Clemson their only loss.
At this point, these resumes are very similar -- except for one major thing. Actual head-to-head.
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Two years ago OSU jumped #3 Baylor after winning the B10 (convincingly). History says that the conf champ will have an impact on the top 4. Let's wait and see what happens.
It's supposed to be better than the BCS. And if Bama, Washington and Clemson all win their conference, then there will be one team in the four that doesn't belong...you figure out which one.
If you had one loss I thing you would be 5 or 6 and the committee would have you over take tosu with a BIG championship win. But the loss puts you on 2 steps below, one step below if you win this week. I simply think losses matter, but who am I? No expert but looking at the rankings it's obviously taken into account. Michigan is 5 because they're viewed as the best 2 loss team right now. It's why Clemson and Washington are ahead of them, no justification in having them before one of them, but if one loses, then the BIG champ will be compared to michigan and all hell breaks loose
Well it is better, it brings the human debate element into it. Something a computer can't evaluate, like injuries, which is one of psu arguments I keep hearing, and the eye test, which you all hate to hear but that's what the Comittee does, humanizes it
Chaos and losses brings in 2 loss teams, which Michigan is, and they'll be evaluated with the others
Michigan always gets far, far more than they deserve. Which explains why the all-time winningest college football team has a bowl record that is below .500.
Think about that.
Think about that.
The problem is they only use the "human" elements you mentioned when it supports their subjective opinion. I have not heard one mention about the horrendous injuries Penn State faced this year. I hear the eye test when the results don't match up to what they want. Right now PSU passes the eye test better than anyone.
Well I would say a one loss team, with the tosu resume would belong, the 11-2 regardless of conf champ or head to head would have an argument with someone like Washington who's resume is not strong
How about the horrendous weather tosu faced at Michigan st? That goes both ways, everyone has injuries, weather, etc. I'm just one person who thinks you have to have wins and the least amount of losses to be in, and imo 2 puts you out with 4 one loss teams. And psu had a very easy close to their season, other than Iowa, but they did lose to n.d. State as well so??
If we were both sitting at 1 loss, you be absolutely correct, but we aren't. Otherwise, USC is superior to Washington and Pitt is superior to Clemson.
Overall W-L for Power 5 schools generally stratifies the teams and quality of wins differentiates amongst each stratus. Conference championships add to quality of wins for the winning team, but don't mitigate for W-L record generally and especially not for OOC losses. If OSU had a second loss, I'd agree with you, but then they wouldn't be sitting at #2 would they. Conversely, if we had one less loss then we wouldn't be #7 as we probably be at #3/4 and poised to jump OSU if we won the championship.
We'll see how the committee accounts for the difference between teams winning their conference championship vs teams that didn't even make it. I wouldn't be surprised if they accounted for it by applying half of a loss (maybe a whole loss) to Ohio State's record for comparison's sake.
People are missing the material point here...
What's the friggin' point of a conference championship game if it, at least in tOSU's case, maybe Michigan too, is NOT NEEDED for entry in the 4 team tournament? I mean, I get that in basketball; you don't have to win your conference to get in, but mind you, the conference champs GET IN. This is the problem with *just* a 4 team playoff, especially when the power conferences (5) exceed that number. Why again are we not at an 8 team playoff??
Again, back to the original point: how convenient it must be for OSU and (maybe) Michigan to get into the playoffs whilst not having to play an additional game, vs. a ranked team, and risk a loss, injuries, or both. Gee, I didn't know we had a 'bye' setup in these NCAA playoffs, but it sure smells like one..
What's the friggin' point of a conference championship game if it, at least in tOSU's case, maybe Michigan too, is NOT NEEDED for entry in the 4 team tournament? I mean, I get that in basketball; you don't have to win your conference to get in, but mind you, the conference champs GET IN. This is the problem with *just* a 4 team playoff, especially when the power conferences (5) exceed that number. Why again are we not at an 8 team playoff??
Again, back to the original point: how convenient it must be for OSU and (maybe) Michigan to get into the playoffs whilst not having to play an additional game, vs. a ranked team, and risk a loss, injuries, or both. Gee, I didn't know we had a 'bye' setup in these NCAA playoffs, but it sure smells like one..
You are on "ignore" ----- just another TROLL who showed up just to tell us we don't matter ---- 11 total messages all about how PSU isn't good enough ----- GFY!!!!!
And the horrendous weather PSU played in when they crushed Rutgers.
Everyone has injuries, but tell me one team that lost 6 starters on defense including all three starting LB's and then the next two LB's off the bench. Please find one example that matches that.
And as far as PSU's easy end to the schedule, they crushed a team that hung with Michigan and had a fluke loss to OSU...not all that easy.
Aren't you one of the ones that are constantly saying "Never move on / Never forget"?
Isn't that exactly what you want?
I figured you'd show up at some point.
But even a dolt like you is smart enough to recognize that we are talking about two completely different issues. Aren't you? If not, I'll explain later; just let me know. I don't want to bore the ones here to do get it with unnecessary prattle.
But even a dolt like you is smart enough to recognize that we are talking about two completely different issues. Aren't you? If not, I'll explain later; just let me know. I don't want to bore the ones here to do get it with unnecessary prattle.
Yeah I have 11 total messages, look at when I registered? 2013..just haven't seen so many people missing obvious points that I wanted to get involved, I look at a lot of teams boards, sorry I'm not part of your community, I don't care if you ignore me, must be annoying that I've made some good points, and you had to go digging to see if I was legit, I haven't trashed psu once.
Nobody is "missing obvious points"...not too arrogant. It's more about weighting those points and what should be more important. Just because you think one way, that doesn't mean everyone else is missing obvious points. I get that OSU has a good resume, I just think a conference championship should carry more weight because earning your way into the playoffs is pretty much a universal truth in all of sports...how's that for getting the point?
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