Regarding the snub, the truth of the matter is...

[crazytoadie]

Sure, overall record can/should still be considered. The debate seems to be HOW to consider it, and how MUCH to consider it.

Assuming we win next week, our winning pct will be .846 (11-2) to Ohio State's .909 (11-1).

Hardly a big difference there, and when you consider that BOTH of our losses were very early in the season while we were experiencing an unusual rash of injuries (remember, the committee claims that injuries are a consideration to them), and OSU's loss is more recent while at full-strength, it doesn't make much sense to give Ohio State a whole lot in the "overall record" category over Penn State.

Again, that's assuming we take care of business this weekend. Obviously, if we don't, the point is moot.

In that scenario, OSU and PSU would each have a loss to a top 5 team, but PSU would also have lost to an fringe 25 ranked team. PSU's loss to top 5 team was by 30+ point's while OSU's was by 3 points. OSU has more quality wins (Mich, Wisconsin, Neb, Okla) than PSU (OSU, Iowa, Wisconsin). OSU can spin their loss on the result of a single play (I still think we would have scored on the game flow, but that's unknown). OSU has better winning percentage, which is not insignificant. Any student will tell you there is a difference between a 91% and a 85%. Both are very good but they aren't equivalent. It is hard to see the argument why a 2 loss team would trump a 1 loss team. PSU gets an extra game, but OSU already beat that team so it is hard to improve PSUs argument that a victory over Wisconsin puts them over the top.

If your argument rests on one game, then what happens when Michigan ends up with 10-2 and we are 11-2, but Michigan beat us head to head? Using your same logic to equate winning percentage then we'd be at a disadvantage due to the head to head victory.

 

[The Song Remains the Same]

How about the horrendous weather tosu faced at Michigan st? That goes both ways, everyone has injuries, weather, etc. I'm just one person who thinks you have to have wins and the least amount of losses to be in, and imo 2 puts you out with 4 one loss teams. And psu had a very easy close to their season, other than Iowa, but they did lose to n.d. State as well so??

So Michigan State didn't face the same horrendous weather? Gotcha.

 

[Obliviax]

so, you think you're better than Ohio State... ok. so, you think you're a top 4 team it appears? ok. so, Ohio State's only loss, is to a top 4 team (in your opinion). a top 4 team coming off a bye week... while after going to Madison the Saturday night prior (ABC primetime), Ohio State then went to Happy Valley for another ABC primetime and led into the 4th qtr. led most of the game, but did have a punt blocked deep - and a FG attempt blocked and returned for a TD. but hey - no bellyaching - part of football. PSU stepped up and won. PSU got it done.

you type, "by judging common opponents, we are better than them"... can you list them? Michigan State score - ok, there's one. we go up there on their senior day and yes, squeak by. you get them in Happy Valley and pull away big in 2nd half. great - I'll put that one in your column. but please expand your common opponent argument beyond that? is Michigan a common opponent? Do you know what we did to Maryland (as compared to what you did)? what about dreadful Rutgers? you didn't play Nebraska - are you aware of what Ohio State did to them? are you aware of what Ohio State did to 9-3 Tulsa (only other 2 losses are a 2 point loss to Navy and a 7 pt loss to Houston). Do you have an OOC win better than Tulsa? Do you have an OOC win better than Oklahoma (OSU beat them - primetime game at Oklahoma - 45-24).

lots of questions. some rhetorical. nowhere in the 2 paragraphs above is PSU being disparaged or am I saying they did not have a terrific season. nowhere am I trolling saying they are not a very good team... they are.

Well we are better than Ohio state because we played that game on the field. It isn't opinion it's fact. Are we one of the top four? That is opinion.

 

[Tsmackhouse]

So Michigan State didn't face the same horrendous weather? Gotcha.

Every team doesn't face injuries?? Gotcha... My point was more of you can make excuses for everything if you want, like your injuries vs Pitt

 

[demlion]

Well we are better than Ohio state because we played that game on the field. It isn't opinion it's fact. Are we one of the top four? That is opinion.

Not only do the Committee members not think we are better, they think that we are not even COMPARABLE to OSU. For that reason, the head to head and conference title issues DO NOT MATTER. Laughable.

 

[Tsmackhouse]

Nobody is "missing obvious points"...not too arrogant. It's more about weighting those points and what should be more important. Just because you think one way, that doesn't mean everyone else is missing obvious points. I get that OSU has a good resume, I just think a conference championship should carry more weight because earning your way into the playoffs is pretty much a universal truth in all of sports...how's that for getting the point?

Yeah I agree conf championships give extra weight, but you also have a weight around each ankle in the form of 2 losses dragging you down which osu doesn't have. I'm pretty sure that most psu fans are dismissing that fact that you have two loses, a conf championship doesn't erase that, just helps your case when concerned with other 2 loss teams

 

[Obliviax]

Not only do the Committee members not think we are better, they think that we are not even COMPARABLE to OSU. For that reason, the head to head and conference title issues DO NOT MATTER. Laughable.

Exactly and that resorts the B1G championship game an exhibition. There is very little upside to winning or losing in terms of ranking and bowls.

 

[BuckeyeLegion]

I don't believe we belong there yet. However, the conference Champion should go in ahead of anyone else in the Conference. If it doesn't, what is the point of it?

$$$

If it were about finding out who the best is, there wouldn't be divisions based on geography. They would just take the teams with the best conference record and Ohio State and Penn State would be playing again on Saturday.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Yeah I agree conf championships give extra weight, but you also have a weight around each ankle in the form of 2 losses dragging you down which osu doesn't have. I'm pretty sure that most psu fans are dismissing that fact that you have two loses, a conf championship doesn't erase that, just helps your case when concerned with other 2 loss teams

Why are you here? Do you need some type of reassurance? PSU fans know where we stand...win or it doesn't matter. Win and then maybe something happens, but you should maybe save your time and spend it on a Buckeye board during your bye week.

 

[Obliviax]

Yeah I agree conf championships give extra weight, but you also have a weight around each ankle in the form of 2 losses dragging you down which osu doesn't have. I'm pretty sure that most psu fans are dismissing that fact that you have two loses, a conf championship doesn't erase that, just helps your case when concerned with other 2 loss teams

Soi what is the value of a conference Chapionship? Why play the game? We are better off not taking the risk of playing it. Also if you look at two early season losses, do you look at two ties? (Overtime).

 

[bplionfan]

Someone is going to have to explain to us all why we bother with this whole conference championship stuff, as it turns out.

Just imagine how Saban must feel. 2 potential teams they may have to play are given a bye. They won't have to risk losing where they would be elimated with a loss and they don't have to risk injury. While Bama has to play and risk injury. Some system huh...

 

[The Song Remains the Same]

Every team doesn't face injuries?? Gotcha... My point was more of you can make excuses for everything if you want, like your injuries vs Pitt

Poor deflection attempt. Answer why bad weather affected one team, OSU, and not the other, crappy MSU, playing in the exact same bad weather that you brought up. . They both played in the same conditions. Penn State blew out Rutgers in freezing rain and hail. Injuries hold validity. Using bad weather is rather disingenuous and winning by 1 due to MSU eschewing the XPT is embarrassing.

 

[lionlurker]

Lots of gymnastics going on here to justify Michigan even being in the conversation. Which proves that even Michigan supporters know that they don't belong in the conversation.

 

[BuckeyeLegion]

$$$

If it were about finding out who the best is, there wouldn't be divisions based on geography. They would just take the teams with the best conference record and Ohio State and Penn State would be playing again on Saturday.

Soi what is the value of a conference Chapionship? Why play the game? We are better off not taking the risk of playing it. Also if you look at two early season losses, do you look at two ties? (Overtime).

See my quote above. Conference championship games are, first and foremost, a revenue stream. They can help (OSU 2014) or hurt (Iowa 2015) playoff chances, but if they were really about finding the best team, you wouldn't have potentially unequal divisions, you'd take the best records after a full conference slate and have those teams play.

 

[Tsmackhouse]

Why are you here? Do you need some type of reassurance? PSU fans know where we stand...win or it doesn't matter. Win and then maybe something happens, but you should maybe save your time and spend it on a Buckeye board during your bye week.

Why are you here? Do you need some type of reassurance? PSU fans know where we stand...win or it doesn't matter. Win and then maybe something happens, but you should maybe save your time and spend it on a Buckeye board during your bye week.

Why does it bother you so much? Have I pinched a nerve? Some fundamental truths that you don't want to face? In just here for intelligent debate. I don't think I've said anything to anyone disrespectful or about the lions that was out of line. Is this not what these boards are for? Does it bother you any time you're disagreed with. My whole point is when did total losses stop mattering? That's the only way you have a leg to stand on to be in the conversation. But you refuse to acknowledge the 500lb gorilla in the room

 

[AWS1022]

Yeah I agree conf championships give extra weight, but you also have a weight around each ankle in the form of 2 losses dragging you down which osu doesn't have. I'm pretty sure that most psu fans are dismissing that fact that you have two loses, a conf championship doesn't erase that, just helps your case when concerned with other 2 loss teams

So we have a weight on each ankle with two losses. That means OSU has a weight on one ankle with one loss, a weight on the other ankle with no conference championship, and a weight on the third ankle for losing head to head.

 

[AWS1022]

See my quote above. Conference championship games are, first and foremost, a revenue stream. They can help (OSU 2014) or hurt (Iowa 2015) playoff chances, but if they were really about finding the best team, you wouldn't have potentially unequal divisions, you'd take the best records after a full conference slate and have those teams play.

Much like the new College Football Playoff system. Just a revenue stream and a measure of nothing concrete.

 

[lionlurker]

The fundamental truth you don't want to recognize is that never before has a 3rd place team in a conference jumped over two teams that finished higher. Never. Ever.

But what the hell. Give Michigan the spot. They'll lose and just add to their sub .500 historic bowl record, once again gifted a bowl spot that they don't earn, and proving it in the actual game itself.

 

[AWS1022]

Why does it bother you so much? Have I pinched a nerve? Some fundamental truths that you don't want to face? In just here for intelligent debate. I don't think I've said anything to anyone disrespectful or about the lions that was out of line. Is this not what these boards are for? Does it bother you any time you're disagreed with. My whole point is when did total losses stop mattering? That's the only way you have a leg to stand on to be in the conversation. But you refuse to acknowledge the 500lb gorilla in the room

When did total losses start being the only thing that matters? You're ignoring division championship, conference championship and head to head for number of losses.

 

[crazytoadie]

Assuming we take care of business this weekend...
OSU: 11-1 with their best win vs a Michigan team that lost to an unranked Iowa team two weeks prior, and their second best win being a nail-biter vs the team Penn State just beat (Wisconsin). Their loss being head-to-head, while at full-strength, vs Penn State.

Penn State: 11-2 with their best win head-to-head vs Ohio State. Second best win vs #6 Wisconsin. Third best win a recent BLOWOUT vs the team that just beat #5 Michigan. Also add in a win vs potential-conference-champ Temple. Their losses being all the way back in weeks 2 and 4 decimated with injuries -- against #5 team and the team that gave Clemson their only loss.

At this point, these resumes are very similar -- except for one major thing. Actual head-to-head.

Points you completely overlook that undermine your argument:

1) OSU's best win is against a team we lost to...,
2) ...by 30+ points,
3) OSU's third best win against Oklahoma...,
4) Oklahoma is likely Big12 champ...,
5) Big12 >> American athletic conference (temple),
6) OSU's fourth best win is a BLOWOUT of Nebraska, who finished essentially tied with Iowa in standings,

Our resume would be close if we had beaten Pitt. We'd have the advantage of an extra win, head to head, conf championship that could boost us, but until OSU has 2 losses or PSU has 1 loss, you cannot justify that PSU's whole season is objectively better. PSU only has the head to head victory in its favor, which is not enough to erase a loss to Pitt. I wish it was otherwise, but I' m content that PSU has had an excellent season above my expectations rather that to ignore the obvious. OSU is in the playoff regardless, Wisconsin will not be as Michigan is ahead and has head to head victory, PSU could be in if a) Wash/Clemson lose & PSU wins convincing (by 2 or more TDs) to jump Mich., or b) both Wash & Clemson lose and PSU wins in any fashion. If Wash & Clemson both win then Mich may stay at 5, but we'd get the Rose Bowl with a win.

 

[Tsmackhouse]

Poor deflection attempt. Answer why bad weather affected one team, OSU, and not the other, crappy MSU, playing in the exact same bad weather that you brought up. . They both played in the same conditions. Penn State blew out Rutgers in freezing rain and hail. Injuries hold validity. Using bad weather is rather disingenuous and winning by 1 due to MSU eschewing the XPT is embarrassing.

Well it slowed down and made our offense more conservative for one thing, so I think that directly contributed to Msu keeping it close. Advantage Msu. I'd rather win by 1 and have it as a win than not though. That's my answer, I'd rather lose by a disingenuous reason like 2 blocks in the waining minutes of the 4th quarter to a team you controlled for 3.5 quarters than have my doors blown off by 39 for a second loss. Also, when did the transitive property become a thing? Team a & b will have a different outcome based on different factors, match ups, schemes, etc than team a & c or B &c would. A strength for you in a certain area could be a weakness for us against the same common opponent and vice versa

 

[The Song Remains the Same]

The fundamental truth you don't want to recognize is that never before has a 3rd place team in a conference jumped over two teams that finished higher. Never. Ever.

But what the hell. Give Michigan the spot. They'll lose and just add to their sub .500 historic bowl record, once again gifted a bowl spot that they don't earn, and proving it in the actual game itself.

Oh, but poor Michigan has to travel to play their Bowl Games. They can't play them in their big outhouse with Witvoet's crew along side them on the field. Bowl games aren't fair. Bo even accused the 1986 ASU team that kicked his @ss in the Rose Bowl of being on steroids. Always gracious losers, they are.

 

[BuckeyeLegion]

Much like the new College Football Playoff system. Just a revenue stream and a measure of nothing concrete.

To a degree. It certainly wouldn't exist if it didn't bring in more money than the BCS, which wouldn't have existed if it didn't bring in more money than the Bowl Coalition, which wouldn't have existed if it didn't bring in more money than the old bowl system.

That being said, 4 teams getting a shot is certainly preferable to 2 teams getting a shot, in my opinion. You can't do automatic bids with a 4-team playoff and judging who gets in is always going to have the potential to be controversial because of disparate schedules.

 

[The Song Remains the Same]

Well it slowed down and made our offense more conservative for one thing, so I think that directly contributed to Msu keeping it close. Advantage Msu. I'd rather win by 1 and have it as a win than not though. That's my answer, I'd rather lose by a disingenuous reason like 2 blocks in the waining minutes of the 4th quarter to a team you controlled for 3.5 quarters than have my doors blown off by 39 for a second loss. Also, when did the transitive property become a thing? Team a & b will have a different outcome based on different factors, match ups, schemes, etc than team a & c or B &c would. A strength for you in a certain area could be a weakness for us against the same common opponent and vice versa

How many points did your vaunted offense score in the last 25 minutes of the Penn state game that you so dominated? Was it too cold for your OL to hold, I mean pass block while Barrett was being sacked 6 times in the second half?

 

[SpartanJD]

I don't really mind not going to the playoffs, given the injury situation along the line and the likelihood of playing Bama. I'm perfectly happy with this team going to a major bowl, like the Rose or Orange or Cotton.

But that being said, it's the process that annoys me greatly. It smacks of once again realizing where we stand in the Big Ten, and it may as well suggest that we are still being penalized for JS.

That's what bugs me. Next year, we win all of our games, and we're in. But the other problems still remain, no matter what.

You are right, PSU to me seems a year away from being a legit natty contender...but everyone besides Bama is so down this year, why not PSU?

And yeah, if PSU were named Michigan or Ohio State...you'd easily, easily be in with a win over wisky.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Why does it bother you so much? Have I pinched a nerve? Some fundamental truths that you don't want to face? In just here for intelligent debate. I don't think I've said anything to anyone disrespectful or about the lions that was out of line. Is this not what these boards are for? Does it bother you any time you're disagreed with. My whole point is when did total losses stop mattering? That's the only way you have a leg to stand on to be in the conversation. But you refuse to acknowledge the 500lb gorilla in the room

You didn't pinch a nerve at all. I find it amusing watching insecure people get worried over something they no longer can control. Total losses stopped mattering when the way you finished the season stopped mattering I guess. The funny thing is they move the criteria each week and year to fit their opinions and if they want to weigh conference titles heavily Sunday....you are in trouble if PSU wins. LSU won a MNC with 2 losses (2007) just a few years back because they thought so highly of the mighty SEC, but that is the Big Ten this year. Uhhhh ohhhhh. Seems to me you are here convincing yourself more than anything else as all we can do is play for a title and see what happens.

B

 

[Tsmackhouse]

When did total losses start being the only thing that matters? You're ignoring division championship, conference championship and head to head for number of losses.

In the last 15 to 20 years they have been the tell tale sign to a championship contender or not. How is this news to you? It has always gone by losses

 

[Creek Side]

I fell of the wagon today and I'm watching the talking heads. This whole playoff thing is blowing my mind this year! Danny Kanell is pretty worked up with the thought of the B10 Champ possibly being left out of the top 4. They had a member of the committee on the show and he wouldn't speculate on anything, so it was worthless for any real insight, which is a good thing I guess.

Wow! I hope we beat Wisconsin for many reasons, but if there is a wrench to be thrown in the machine, I want us... PSU... to be that wrench!

WE ARE!

 

[crazytoadie]

Not only do the Committee members not think we are better, they think that we are not even COMPARABLE to OSU. For that reason, the head to head and conference title issues DO NOT MATTER. Laughable.

It's not a simple binary choice. Is Pitt a better team because they beat us head to head. No. Why? Because they have 4 losses not 2. Head to head victories differentiate between teams of the same record not determine who has the better record. That is to our advantage in the conference because we tied there, but not of the same weight for the national playoff because we are not equal in overall record. If you want to focus on conference record then you eviscerate the meaning of any OOC games. OSU beat Oklahoma and we lost to Pitt, which are both significant.

 

[Tsmackhouse]

You didn't pinch a nerve at all. I find it amusing watching insecure people get worried over something they no longer can control. Total losses stopped mattering when the way you finished the season stopped mattering I guess. The funny thing is they move the criteria each week and year to fit their opinions and if they want to weigh conference titles heavily Sunday....you are in trouble if PSU wins. LSU won a MNC with 2 losses (2007) just a few years back because they thought so highly of the mighty SEC, but that is the Big Ten this year. Uhhhh ohhhhh. Seems to me you are here convincing yourself more than anything else as all we can do is play for a title and see what happens.

B

Not sure why discussion makes me insecure,I'm just taking what the Comittee says, that psu is not comparable to osu. As far as lsu in 2008 it was because wvu and mizzu both lost in the last week, after being ranked 1&2. So that was a chaos scenario for the bcs, they didn't do anything outside of being one of the last teams standing to be selected. Nice try

 

[BuckeyeLegion]

I always thought that was why we played the games. To see who was better. Which of our other wins were to teams that were better than us? But more important, which of Ohio State's wins were against such teams? You realize when we reject what happened on the field, we reject the entire purpose of playing the games, right?

So, Michigan should be in ahead of Penn State?

 

[Tsmackhouse]

How many points did your vaunted offense score in the last 25 minutes of the Penn state game that you so dominated? Was it too cold for your OL to hold, I mean pass block while Barrett was being sacked 6 times in the second half?

We scored nine points to be exact in the last 25 min. We out rushed, passed, and had more first downs. So it's not of base to say we controlled the game. Also we were penalized more than you. And you all got away with an egregious pass interference penalty in the final minutes. So say what ever you want.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

We scored nine points to be exact in the last 25 min. We out rushed, passed, and had more first downs. So it's not of base to say we controlled the game. Also we were penalized more than you. And you all got away with an egregious pass interference penalty in the final minutes. So say what ever you want.

PI penalty a make up call for bogus drive saving '12 men on the field' penalty. It all evens out.

 

[Obliviax]

See my quote above. Conference championship games are, first and foremost, a revenue stream. They can help (OSU 2014) or hurt (Iowa 2015) playoff chances, but if they were really about finding the best team, you wouldn't have potentially unequal divisions, you'd take the best records after a full conference slate and have those teams play.

Hmmmm. See the trend? Only help when it's Ohio state or Michigan.

 

[The Song Remains the Same]

We scored nine points to be exact in the last 25 min. We out rushed, passed, and had more first downs. So it's not of base to say we controlled the game. Also we were penalized more than you. And you all got away with an egregious pass interference penalty in the final minutes. So say what ever you want.

Again, the question you incorrectly answered was "how many points did your vaunted offense score in the last 25 minutes of the game you dominated?". It's a rather easy answer, and the question really should be in the "last 25:10 of the game".

 

[BuckeyeLegion]

Hmmmm. See the trend? Only help when it's Ohio state or Michigan.

Two games is hardly a trend. Just like two years of playoffs is hardly enough to claim "precedent". Additionally, it only because Ohio State won that game by 59 points. If Ohio State won 17-10 or 35-20, they don't make the playoffs in 2014. If Iowa won, they would have made the playoffs. It's not complicated. If Penn State wins 59-0 on Saturday, they'll probably find their way in.

 

[Tsmackhouse]

Again, the question you incorrectly answered was "how many points did your vaunted offense score in the last 25 minutes of the game you dominated?". It's a rather easy answer, and the question really should be in the "last 25:10 of the game".

Sorry 7 points ... But we still dominated the game here's the proof... How many points did your vaunted offense score total in the entirety of the game? Now who's offense actually scored more points?? Ok well, seeing as how defensive and blocked kicks and picks for tds Are considered flukes per the bwi boards (i.e. Osu needed fluke pick 6's to beat Michigan) id be inclined to say we dominated the game. See how that works, our offense out scored yours, which is really crazy because you're acting like its playing the 85 bears.

 

[elvis63]

Two games is hardly a trend. Just like two years of playoffs is hardly enough to claim "precedent". Additionally, it only because Ohio State won that game by 59 points. If Ohio State won 17-10 or 35-20, they don't make the playoffs in 2014. If Iowa won, they would have made the playoffs. It's not complicated. If Penn State wins 59-0 on Saturday, they'll probably find their way in.

IF????? That's a might big word there.

 

[elvis63]

Sorry 7 points ... But we still dominated the game here's the proof... How many points did your vaunted offense score total in the entirety of the game? Now who's offense actually scored more points?? Ok well, seeing as how defensive and blocked kicks and picks for rd tds Are considered flukes per the bwi boards (i.e. Osu needed fluke pick 6's to beat Michigan) id be inclined to say we dominated the game. See how that works, our offense out scored yours, which is really crazy because you're acting like its playing the 85 bears.

Can you tell me the final score again and explain why certain points don't count? Also explain to me how OSU could only score 17 against MSU while PSU scored 45 the week later? I'd like to watch those mental gymnastics.

 

[BuckeyeLegion]

IF????? That's a might big word there.

I'm afraid I don't follow. They're all hypothetical scenarios. Do you disagree with one of them?