Spencer Lee

[GogglesPaizano]

Interesting on FRL this morning, Pyles said Spencer is not sick and there is nothing wrong with Spencer according to his sources...HR meltdown soon..

Sick or not Zain beat #2 in SV rumored to have a 102 temp @ Carver - just sayin!

Talk about fading or searching for excuses...

My take is as soon as people start writing him off he'll charge back. Flo was talking about him being seeded #5, it's almost time....

 

[Lyons212]

I always assumed too much time injured and not being able to wrestle live to get into wrestling shape. You can’t just run and expect to be in shape to wrestle. Actually suspect something similar with Spencer in that he hasn’t been able to get into wrestling shape due to dealing with whatever he is dealing with

Per Flo, Spencer is not sick or injured.

 

[Lyons212]

Sick or not Zain beat #2 in SV rumored to have a 102 temp @ Carver - just sayin!

Talk about fading or searching for excuses...

My take is as soon as people start writing him off he'll charge back. Flo was talking about him being seeded #5, it's almost time....

I don't think anybody would be surprised if Spencer repeats as national champion, same as I don't think people will be surprised if he finished 5th. He is an elite talent, however he has not diversified his attacks, coaches have had a year to scout him and elite wrestlers can now effectively counter him.

Pic sticking him, no big deal, plenty of great wrestlers have been pinned via cradle when they get sloppy and leave their head to close to their knee. DT can relate. That will not happen again. If anything this will serve as a wake up call for Lee and force the development of some new attacks, particularly from neutral.

 

[Antaeus]

I know this thread’s about Spencer. But if I swapped his name with Zahid almost every post applied to him as well. An elite high school career. Check. Junior world class credentials. Check. A defending champ. Check. A bad loss. Check. Got stuck. Check.

IMO it’s not always as easy as coach blaming, loss of passion or illness excuses. Sometimes the competition simply catches up. Sometimes the elites lose the edge in folkstyle trying to remain relevant in freestyle.

I’m guessing the Board could come up with numerous examples of other elite wrestlers this happened to.

 

[El-Jefe]

I know this thread’s about Spencer. But if I swapped his name with Zahid almost every post applied to him as well. An elite high school career. Check. Junior world class credentials. Check. A defending champ. Check. A bad loss. Check. Got stuck. Check.

IMO it’s not always as easy as coach blaming, loss of passion or illness excuses. Sometimes the competition simply catches up. Sometimes the elites lose the edge in folkstyle trying to remain relevant in freestyle.

I’m guessing the Board could come up with numerous examples of other elite wrestlers this happened to.

What bad loss did either Lee or Zahid have?

 

[Jkos11]

Bo lost to Nate Jackson at around the same point of his development and age, as Bo took a shirt and Lee didn’t. I don’t remember anyone here making as many excuses as I just read on HR

 

[jack66]

I'll repeat something I said last summer.

"DeSanto to Iowa could be the worst case for Spencer."

Having a powder keg for a training partner has to be taxing.

 

[PSUbluTX]

Per Flo, Spencer is not sick or injured.

Per Flo, Shak is the 7th best 184 pounder.

 

[Lyons212]

Per Flo, Shak is the 7th best 184 pounder.

Keep in mind, their statement about Spencer being healthy is based upon contacts they have in the Iowa program. Their opinion of Shak's ranking is simply their opinion. Being honest, Shak has not wrestled much in the last 6 weeks and does not have a signature win this year.

Martin clearly is the class at 184 with a handful of guys most likely fighting it out for 2nd through 8th, Shak is in this group.

 

[Antaeus]

What bad loss did either Lee or Zahid have?

My bad. Should have said “losses in which they looked bad”.

 

[James P. Whitters III]

Zahid competed this Summer while Spencer did not. Spencer was injured,sick or maybe just taking a break. It could also mean the HEW comments have some teethe. I also have not heard any Zahid fans claiming a lingering illness caused the losses.

 

[Roar More]

Lee was pinned. These things happen. I am far less concerned about a pin than I would be about being dominated by a major decision or tech fall.

 

[dunkej01]

Lee was pinned. These things happen. I am far less concerned about a pin than I would be about being dominated by a major decision or tech fall.

Exactly. Picc had him scouted and was ready for the split.

The sea bass loss in my mind was worse than the picc one. As you say IT happens.

 

[El-Jefe]

Exactly. Picc had him scouted and was ready for the split.

The sea bass loss in my mind was worse than the picc one. As you say IT happens.

I agree with this about 99.5%.

The other 0.5% of me says he got pinned on Picc's shot and getting in cleanly on Spencer's leg -- in their past matches, did Picc ever get to shoot or did Spencer overwhelm him? If Spencer does the attacking, that scouting doesn't do much good.

 

[Shifty15]

I will never root against Spencer. Great Wrestler......Great young man. Total class. That said....He has definitely looked "off" much of this year. He has two weeks and then two more weeks after BIGs to get "it" back. I suspect you will see a better Lee going forward.

Anyone thinking it somewhat parallels Andrew Alton. Fine his freshman year and then just couldn’t kick the gassing issues. Just an observation. Not sure they ever figured the cause of AA either.

 

[Dogwelder]

Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapse. Turns out the whole bridge had mono.

 

[PSUcup1]

Lee was pinned. These things happen. I am far less concerned about a pin than I would be about being dominated by a major decision or tech fall.

Well. Had he not been pinned the score would have been 7-0 ... points scored off of Picc’s offense. judging by his body language, a major would have been likely in that scenario IMO

 

[NittanyLion84]

Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapse. Turns out the whole bridge had mono.

And the bridge only had Mono on windy days, no signs of Mono on calm days.

 

[PSUer1989]

Zahid competed this Summer while Spencer did not. Spencer was injured,sick or maybe just taking a break. It could also mean the HEW comments have some teethe. I also have not heard any Zahid fans claiming a lingering illness caused the losses.

I have seen the "HEW" reference before. Help a non-wrestler out, what does it stand for?

 

[James P. Whitters III]

Had Enough Wrestling. Hates Everything Wrestling.

 

[Antaeus]

Lee was pinned. These things happen. I am far less concerned about a pin than I would be about being dominated by a major decision or tech fall.

IMO a match against a defending champ doesn’t have to end in a MD or TF when it comes to be called dominating - one wrestler simply has to impose their will on the other throughout the match. I rewatched both matches and I’d argue Hall definitely dominated Zahid by shutting him out and riding him the way he did. SeaBass was close to domination with 3 TD’s and an escape vs 2 escapes.

 

[dsites52]

Exactly. Picc had him scouted and was ready for the split.

The sea bass loss in my mind was worse than the picc one. As you say IT happens.

What? Sh*t?!

 

[tikk10]

I don't know if I agree that Lee's loss to Picc was less worrying than his loss to Rivera. Against Picc it was essentially tied when Picc locked him up but he went right over and had zero fight as soon as he did. Against Rivera he at least went seven minutes.

I do tend to think his gas tank is the issue and that could be related to some lingering illness. I do realize that this how Iowa fans are rationalizing it (I don't go to HR so I'm inferring from what I see elsewhere) but that doesn't make it dismissible, b/c he he doesn't look like the same guy who beat NaTo twice last year, once pinning him in the third. Or even the guy who lost in seven minutes to NaTo.

But if it is a gas tank issue due to some lingering health thing, I doubt it'll be solved in the next three weeks and I'd expect more losses to top tier guys at B1Gs and NCAAs.

 

[GogglesPaizano]

Midlands last year aside, after Spencer tore through nationals last year most were thinking he was going to be a 4xer, and might never lose again. I thought he and Nolf would be the top two vying for the Hodge. Little did I know that every pound Bo adds is a pound of pure greatness, and Spencer.....?

It seems obvious there is something wrong with the kid, but the fire in his eyes and body language are different as well. That's telling.

Although not very good analogies, neither he nor his opponents see him as 'invincible' any longer. II expect him to bounce back, but what we are seeing has some similarities to what happened to Mike Tyson after Buster Douglas and Tiger Woods after his wife's 7-iron to the head. Opponents we're totally intimidated by them with events lost before they started. Once the invincible veneer was tarnished the flood gates opened.

I have always wondered what proportion of wrestling is mental vs physical, but once you lose your confidence, any physical ailments tend to become secondary.

Who knows, maybe in October he was majoring Desanto in practice everyday, and the tables might have turned. AD is definitely not the same wrestler as last year he has elevated several levels.

Spencer really had noone in his league for a decade, the mental side of seeing and feeling the competition catch up might be taking its toll as much as some mystery illness.

My guess is once we get into the tourneys his completive juices will flow, he'll destroy a few kids early on and become more of his usual self. The rest of the world now has the book on him w.r.t. the splits though so watch out.

 

[palmettolion]

Think about it. How close to 100% would you be if everytime you beat your wrestling partner in the room he tried to rip your arms off?

 

[Dogwelder]

Do you suppose that working out with AD has had an impact on him?

Through arcane arts, DeSanto has turned Spencer into the Dorian-Grey portrait of Austin DeSanto. Austin DeSanto wrestles and trains without cease, but only Spencer Lee gets tired. #twilightzone

 

[psualt]

Do you suppose that working out with AD has had an impact on him?

I’ve wondered this as well. Although different styles, I imagine it being similar to working out with Zain. If your confidence is shook or gas tank an issue that would be one grueling workout after another. I believe he’ll work through these issues and fix whatever is ailing him.

 

[PAgeologist]

Baseball is 90% mental and the other half is physical.-Yogi Berra

Scratch baseball and insert wrestling.

 

[Uncle Fester Addams]

Hi Goggles!

what are you saying

 

[nitlion6]

I don't think anybody would be surprised if Spencer repeats as national champion, same as I don't think people will be surprised if he finished 5th. He is an elite talent, however he has not diversified his attacks, coaches have had a year to scout him and elite wrestlers can now effectively counter him.

Pic sticking him, no big deal, plenty of great wrestlers have been pinned via cradle when they get sloppy and leave their head to close to their knee. DT can relate. That will not happen again. If anything this will serve as a wake up call for Lee and force the development of some new attacks, particularly from neutral.

Piccininni pinning Spencer is not the important telltale. The fact Piccininni wrestled Spencer even up in the first, and wrestled aggressively and successfully from the bottom while protecting his wrists tells me Spencer isn't beating Piccininni this year.

 

[Lyons212]

Piccininni pinning Spencer is not the important telltale. The fact Piccininni wrestled Spencer even up in the first, and wrestled aggressively and successfully from the bottom while protecting his wrists tells me Spencer isn't beating Piccininni this year.

I wouldn't go that far. Sunday's result tells us the other outstanding wrestlers in the weight class have adjusted to negate Lee's predictable game plan. To be honest, we have be seeing this all season. Lee lost to Rivera, Glory titled Lee earlier this year.

If Lee wants to repeat, he needs to add a new move or two from neutral in the next 3 weeks. He is an elite talent, no doubt he adds some diversification for next season, question is can he do it in the next 3 weeks.

Regarding Piccininni, if Lee does not put his head close to his knee, he does not get cradled and pinned. I bet Lee does not make that mistake again. Without that mistake, does Piccininni get the take down there? If not, you are probably looking at 1-1 match and OT, who knows what happens.

 

[El-Jefe]

I wouldn't go that far. Sunday's result tells us the other outstanding wrestlers in the weight class have adjusted to negate Lee's predictable game plan. To be honest, we have be seeing this all season. Lee lost to Rivera, Glory titled Lee earlier this year.

If Lee wants to repeat, he needs to add a new move or two from neutral in the next 3 weeks. He is an elite talent, no doubt he adds some diversification for next season, question is can he do it in the next 3 weeks.

Regarding Piccininni, if Lee does not put his head close to his knee, he does not get cradled and pinned. I bet Lee does not make that mistake again. Without that mistake, does Piccininni get the take down there? If not, you are probably looking at 1-1 match and OT, who knows what happens.

Yes he gets the takedown unless Spencer can take him out of bounds first. The head was the second reason for the cradle. The first reason was that Picc got the leg very cleanly and was in great position to finish.

 

[nitlion6]

Had Enough Wrestling. Hates Everything Wrestling.

Well, Spyker says......

 

[James P. Whitters III]

Well, Spyker says......

I always knew Spyker had it all figured out, and you guys ran him off the board.

 

[nitlion6]

I wouldn't go that far. Sunday's result tells us the other outstanding wrestlers in the weight class have adjusted to negate Lee's predictable game plan. To be honest, we have be seeing this all season. Lee lost to Rivera, Glory titled Lee earlier this year.

If Lee wants to repeat, he needs to add a new move or two from neutral in the next 3 weeks. He is an elite talent, no doubt he adds some diversification for next season, question is can he do it in the next 3 weeks.

Regarding Piccininni, if Lee does not put his head close to his knee, he does not get cradled and pinned. I bet Lee does not make that mistake again. Without that mistake, does Piccininni get the take down there? If not, you are probably looking at 1-1 match and OT, who knows what happens.

Spencer right now is having multiple issues. One is he is being successfully game planned. Two is he isn't someplace that will add diversity to his 3 inch binder. Three is he has a gas tank issue.
There isn't anything there I see fixable in 4 weeks.
I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Spencer right now is having multiple issues. One is he is being successfully game planned. Two is he isn't someplace that will add diversity to his 3 inch binder. Three is he has a gas tank issue.
There isn't anything there I see fixable in 4 weeks.
I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

We’ll see. They put together a great game plan for Cory Clark a few years ago and he was physically compromised.

 

[nitlion6]

We’ll see. They put together a great game plan for Cory Clark a few years ago and he was physically compromised.

Maybe.
Clark's physical issue certainly wasn't limited gas availability. I don't know what the cause is, I have my guess, but a gas tank issue is the one weakness that leaves a wrestler completely exposed. Darn near impossible to gameplan a solution to no gas.

 

[Hotshoe]

Well I have to give props to smalls this morning. I nearly spit my coffee out laughing so hard. Smalls said he had no source on Lee so he was gonna call compliance offices. Lmao.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Maybe.
Clark's physical issue certainly wasn't limited gas availability. I don't know what the cause is, I have my guess, but a gas tank issue is the one weakness that leaves a wrestler completely exposed. Darn near impossible to gameplan a solution to no gas.

You don’t know Tom Ryan very well. There’s always a bogus concussion protocol or a frivolous challenge (if you still have one available past the second round)

 

[Gray52]

It can’t help that it seems the whole weight of returning that program to its amazing heights is on his shoulders - at least these are the expectations from a lot of the fan base (e.g. The Spencer Lee Effect).

That should be the job of coaches, the admin and boosters, among others, not a 20 year old kid.

Certainly not Iowa fans. Certainly not. I mean, I guess he is the only one with his own sticky on HR... but other than that...