Stevens Transfer Portal

[djr4rebs]

Do you really think so? Never dawned on me, but I guess it's possible. If that is the case, doesn't say anything positive about the coaching staff, particularly as events have unfolded.

Once upon a time, we had this cat MRob. Total team player. Came in as a QB, but couldn't unseat the starter. Had great ability; very versatile. We plugged him in at RB. WR. A few snaps at QB. He was electrifying. Scored some memorable touchdowns. Eventually, he got the nod once Mills graduated beating out another heralded #14. A memorable season, off to the NFL, a position change, the rest is history.

The college football landscape was different 17 years ago. The then coaching staff identified how to get a talented backup QB on the field, but we didn't have a public name for it. Franklin seemed to have the teams interest in mind throughout all of this. He got Tommy on the field and utilized a weapon. Eventually, as it did with MRob, teams catch on and the gimmick drops it's success rate. Then, he found a way to keep the eldest viable backup QB for last year. Finally, he had to make a decision between ruffling one feather or possibly ruffling 4.

At the end of the day, do we want Franklin looking out for 85+ or 1? I think that is what this came down to.

 

[marshall23]

Once upon a time, we had this cat MRob. Total team player. Came in as a QB, but couldn't unseat the starter. Had great ability; very versatile. We plugged him in at RB. WR. A few snaps at QB. He was electrifying. Scored some memorable touchdowns. Eventually, he got the nod once Mills graduated beating out another heralded #14. A memorable season, off to the NFL, a position change, the rest is history.

The college football landscape was different 17 years ago. The then coaching staff identified how to get a talented backup QB on the field, but we didn't have a public name for it. Franklin seemed to have the teams interest in mind throughout all of this. He got Tommy on the field and utilized a weapon. Eventually, as it did with MRob, teams catch on and the gimmick drops it's success rate. Then, he found a way to keep the eldest viable backup QB for last year. Finally, he had to make a decision between ruffling one feather or possibly ruffling 4.

At the end of the day, do we want Franklin looking out for 85+ or 1? I think that is what this came down to.

Sometimes people ask for something you cannot give. Parents see your program as a portrait with their child depicted in the very center. The coach sees the program as a "motion picture," where the images will change as each frame moves thru the lense. I still firmly believe that this years PSU team was potentially stronger with a healthy Tommy as the starter and Clifford pushing him for playing time. But, James Franklin absolutely made the appropriate decision to insist on a competition for the good of the program.

 

[Art]

Once upon a time, we had this cat MRob. Total team player. Came in as a QB, but couldn't unseat the starter. Had great ability; very versatile. We plugged him in at RB. WR. A few snaps at QB. He was electrifying. Scored some memorable touchdowns. Eventually, he got the nod once Mills graduated beating out another heralded #14. A memorable season, off to the NFL, a position change, the rest is history.

The college football landscape was different 17 years ago. The then coaching staff identified how to get a talented backup QB on the field, but we didn't have a public name for it. Franklin seemed to have the teams interest in mind throughout all of this. He got Tommy on the field and utilized a weapon. Eventually, as it did with MRob, teams catch on and the gimmick drops it's success rate. Then, he found a way to keep the eldest viable backup QB for last year. Finally, he had to make a decision between ruffling one feather or possibly ruffling 4.

At the end of the day, do we want Franklin looking out for 85+ or 1? I think that is what this came down to.

My question and comments were related to this part of your post:
Personally, I think too many exceptions were made to keep the Stevens family happy. Lion position. The whatever it was that kept him from transferring last year. Inserting him into games of importance, killing momentum. But it is what it is and the winners/losers of it will be figured out in hindsight.

 

[AWS1022]

Once upon a time, we had this cat MRob. Total team player. Came in as a QB, but couldn't unseat the starter. Had great ability; very versatile. We plugged him in at RB. WR. A few snaps at QB. He was electrifying. Scored some memorable touchdowns. Eventually, he got the nod once Mills graduated beating out another heralded #14. A memorable season, off to the NFL, a position change, the rest is history.

The college football landscape was different 17 years ago. The then coaching staff identified how to get a talented backup QB on the field, but we didn't have a public name for it. Franklin seemed to have the teams interest in mind throughout all of this. He got Tommy on the field and utilized a weapon. Eventually, as it did with MRob, teams catch on and the gimmick drops it's success rate. Then, he found a way to keep the eldest viable backup QB for last year. Finally, he had to make a decision between ruffling one feather or possibly ruffling 4.

At the end of the day, do we want Franklin looking out for 85+ or 1? I think that is what this came down to.

But in that case MRob should have started at QB the previous year.

 

[PearlSUJam]

I would take Franklin’s Coaching over mine every day too. And I think he is doing a good job and is a great choice for PSU. But that does not make him infallible. And a lightweight assessment from you does not make me wrong. As for 78Sweet whatever, I have no idea who that is...perhaps someone you know?

Should have burned Fries redshirt. Fact.

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

My question and comments were related to this part of your post:
Personally, I think too many exceptions were made to keep the Stevens family happy. Lion position. The whatever it was that kept him from transferring last year. Inserting him into games of importance, killing momentum. But it is what it is and the winners/losers of it will be figured out in hindsight.

Not sure it was necessarily to keep the Stevens family happy. I think the staff was concerned about depth, otherwise they would have encouraged him to move on last year. We saw some of the throws Levis is able to make. That to me is a highly probable difference between this year and last year.

I think McSorley offered a proven track record in high school, proven leadership, so he was chosen over someone with more upside. It was a conservative decision at the time made by someone relatively new on the block. Now we may never know whether history can prove this to be the right decision, since Stevens will get at best one year for on-field development.

 

[ILLINOISLION]

Curious if anyone thinks the Trace vs Tommy decision was made because Trace came from Vandy with Franklin?

 

[marshall23]

Curious if anyone thinks the Trace vs Tommy decision was made because Trace came from Vandy with Franklin?

That would make a great deal more sense than the coaches felt Trace was better at the time.

 

[ga.lion]

Not sure it was necessarily to keep the Stevens family happy. I think the staff was concerned about depth, otherwise they would have encouraged him to move on last year. We saw some of the throws Levis is able to make. That to me is a highly probable difference between this year and last year.

I think McSorley offered a proven track record in high school, proven leadership, so he was chosen over someone with more upside. It was a conservative decision at the time made by someone relatively new on the block. Now we may never know whether history can prove this to be the right decision, since Stevens will get at best one year for on-field development.

I just don't know why anyone would claim Stevens had more upside as a college QB thank Trace.
Without a great offensive line Trace performed. Go back and look again at Trace's winning percentage and QB records. I wish Tommy the best but he is a very unproven commodity......

 

[marshall23]

My question and comments were related to this part of your post:
Personally, I think too many exceptions were made to keep the Stevens family happy. Lion position. The whatever it was that kept him from transferring last year. Inserting him into games of importance, killing momentum. But it is what it is and the winners/losers of it will be figured out in hindsight.

Coaches make countless decisions to "keep players happy" especially if they are "good teammates" and project making a positive contribution in the future to the program. No one was looking at Clifford as a starter a little over a year ago. This all emerged after 5 passes launched in games that had long since been decided.....and I might add.....that until recently in football would have been viewed as poor etiquette to be throwing deep at that juncture of the game. That is not to say that Clifford would not or could not have won a head to hear with Stevens had it played out this fall. Sadly, no one will ever know. I just see these as the facts. This board universally rejoiced when "Touchdown Tommy" decided to stay. Now we are looking for covert plots and plans. Good Lord save us from ourselves.

 

[sluggo72]

Curious if anyone thinks the Trace vs Tommy decision was made because Trace came from Vandy with Franklin?

Trace came from Vandy?? Hmmm I did not know that

 

[marshall23]

Trace came from Vandy?? Hmmm I did not know that

He had committed there. Trace followed CJF since it was about his only p5 offer to compete as a QB, if I recall correctly.

 

[ILLINOISLION]

Trace came from Vandy?? Hmmm I did not know that

I may be wrong but I THINK Trace committed to Vandy and Franklin, then decommitted to Vandy and followed Franklin to PSU.

If someone could confirm or correct me, thank you!

 

[Art]

Coaches make countless decisions to "keep players happy" especially if they are "good teammates" and project making a positive contribution in the future to the program. No one was looking at Clifford as a starter a little over a year ago. This all emerged after 5 passes launched in games that had long since been decided.....and I might add.....that until recently in football would have been viewed as poor etiquette to be throwing deep at that juncture of the game. That is not to say that Clifford would not or could not have won a head to hear with Stevens had it played out this fall. Sadly, no one will ever know. I just see these as the facts. This board universally rejoiced when "Touchdown Tommy" decided to stay. Now we are looking for covert plots and plans. Good Lord save us from ourselves.

Understand that. Just don't think that a coach would insert someone at critical junctures of games to him happy.

 

[Art]

I may be wrong but I THINK Trace committed to Vandy and Franklin, then decommitted to Vandy and followed Franklin to PSU.

If someone could confirm or correct me, thank you!

That is correct.

 

[AWS1022]

Coaches make countless decisions to "keep players happy" especially if they are "good teammates" and project making a positive contribution in the future to the program. No one was looking at Clifford as a starter a little over a year ago. This all emerged after 5 passes launched in games that had long since been decided.....and I might add.....that until recently in football would have been viewed as poor etiquette to be throwing deep at that juncture of the game. That is not to say that Clifford would not or could not have won a head to hear with Stevens had it played out this fall. Sadly, no one will ever know. I just see these as the facts. This board universally rejoiced when "Touchdown Tommy" decided to stay. Now we are looking for covert plots and plans. Good Lord save us from ourselves.

I’m sure from a coaching viewpoint this didn’t just all emerge from five passes in games. They see them every day in practice. Also, Tommy’s injury changed the dynamic.

 

[marshall23]

Curious if anyone thinks the Trace vs Tommy decision was made because Trace came from Vandy with Franklin?

Since both QBs committed to Franklin, why would one commitment be more "special" than the other?A commitment at Vandy is worth more than one to PSU????

 

[grinagrin]

That would make a great deal more sense than the coaches felt Trace was better at the time.

I see what you did there.

 

[marshall23]

Understand that. Just don't think that a coach would insert someone at critical junctures of games to him happy.

Don't think that was a factor. As usual people here accentuate the negative. I do recall a few nice TD runs, some pass receptions and completions. There were even pleas to use the "Lion" more frequently. But, predictably when it didn't work......the whole idea was preposterous. When Tommy decided to stay, Mike Gesicki posted on twitter "Touchdown Tommy a Penn State Legend." Now Tommy leaves and revisionist history is in full motion.
The Steven's Family simply made what they thought was the best decision for Tommy at the time. Coach Franklin could not give them the answer they wanted. Its just that simple. Why is someone now the rebirth of Hitler?

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

I just don't know why anyone would claim Stevens had more upside as a college QB thank Trace.
Without a great offensive line Trace performed. Go back and look again at Trace's winning percentage and QB records. I wish Tommy the best but he is a very unproven commodity......

But you can't use Trace's performance as an indication that it was the right choice, because we have no data for the alternative.

If it were not for a lot of 50:50 deep balls gathered in by some NFL receivers, and a superstar running back that forced skewed defensive coverages, Trace's career statistics and won-loss record might look a lot different. If drawing historic comparisons, the absolute numbers are obviously skewed by career longevity, number of games, participation, and style of offense.

I would have thought that if the two were close, as it became known at decision time, that a bigger, stronger Stevens would have been given more of a chance in real games -- a chance to develop. That is what bothers me as a team fan and alumnus. So I can understand how it would REALLY bother a member of the Stevens family.

I do think the McSorley Vandy-connection played a role, as did his high school record. That fits with human nature. But the only one who really knows is Franklin.

 

[Countrylion]

He wasn't just anyone.. he was the guy who 3 years ago was in a razor thin battle with the guy who became mister psu... and anyone who actually watched that B/W game had to come out of it wondering who was the better option. TS was that good.

We saw a glimpse here and there of what could have been.. what should have been this year.

But if coach is worried about TS's foot (ANY other reason is pure BS), I'm cool with that. We all know what he can do.. the coaches know it, too.... so the only issue is INJURY.

Frankly, I hope Tommy winds up at MSU, starts, wins a Neisman and the MNC. I can't tell you how much I looked forward to seeing him start. But he's gone and my loyalties lie with Sean and Wil and the kid now at #3. I only hope that Sean is not injury prone... or I'm gonna hafta guess he's toast, too.

Who decided not to compete this fall?

 

[sluggo72]

I may be wrong but I THINK Trace committed to Vandy and Franklin, then decommitted to Vandy and followed Franklin to PSU.

If someone could confirm or correct me, thank you!

That’s a whole lot different than following him from Vandy.

 

[bsmith51]

But you can't use Trace's performance as an indication that it was the right choice, because we have no data for the alternative.

If it were not for a lot of 50:50 deep balls gathered in by some NFL receivers, and a superstar running back that forced skewed defensive coverages, Trace's career statistics and won-loss record might look a lot different. If drawing historic comparisons, the absolute numbers are obviously skewed by career longevity, number of games, participation, and style of offense.

I would have thought that if the two were close, as it became known at decision time, that a bigger, stronger Stevens would have been given more of a chance in real games -- a chance to develop. That is what bothers me as a team fan and alumnus. So I can understand how it would REALLY bother a member of the Stevens family.

I do think the McSorley Vandy-connection played a role, as did his high school record. That fits with human nature. But the only one who really knows is Franklin.

Perhaps the competition between Trace and Tommy wasn’t really that close. We all thought that Tommy was a no brainer shoe-in to be QB based on Franklin’s public comments throughout the years. Turns out that wasn’t the case.

And your point re Trace playing with NFL receivers is irrelevant IMO. First, Tommy was throwing to those same guys in practice when he and Trace were competing for the job. Second, if you are going to discount Trace for playing with good receivers or RBs, than you have to discount pretty much every successful QB at Penn State. Also, Haskins and Murray both had receivers that will go higher in the draft than any receiver Trace had at PSU (OSU actually has 3 receivers this year who will prob be first or second round picks while Murray played with Brown who will likely be first WR off the board). Does that make them less as QBs? Third, the idea that Franklin’s decision to start Trace had anything to do with Vandy is silly.

 

[ga.lion]

Perhaps the competition between Trace and Tommy wasn’t really that close. We all thought that Tommy was a no brainer shoe-in to be QB based on Franklin’s public comments throughout the years. Turns out that wasn’t the case.

And your point re Trace playing with NFL receivers is irrelevant IMO. First, Tommy was throwing to those same guys in practice when he and Trace were competing for the job. Second, if you are going to discount Trace for playing with good receivers or RBs, than you have to discount pretty much every successful QB at Penn State. Also, Haskins and Murray both had receivers that will go higher in the draft than any receiver Trace had at PSU (OSU actually has 3 receivers this year who will prob be first or second round picks while Murray played with Brown who will likely be first QB off the board). Does that make them less as QBs?

But you can't use Trace's performance as an indication that it was the right choice, because we have no data for the alternative.

If it were not for a lot of 50:50 deep balls gathered in by some NFL receivers, and a superstar running back that forced skewed defensive coverages, Trace's career statistics and won-loss record might look a lot different. If drawing historic comparisons, the absolute numbers are obviously skewed by career longevity, number of games, participation, and style of offense.

I would have thought that if the two were close, as it became known at decision time, that a bigger, stronger Stevens would have been given more of a chance in real games -- a chance to develop. That is what bothers me as a team fan and alumnus. So I can understand how it would REALLY bother a member of the Stevens family.

I do think the McSorley Vandy-connection played a role, as did his high school record. That fits with human nature. But the only one who really knows is Franklin

Now that logic escapes me. Trace breaks near every QB record at Penn State but you know Franklin chose him because he gave a verbal to Vandy. Tommy might be more like Rob Bolden than the very good college QB Trace was. I’ll test your premise with this: If loyalty was what mattered for Franklin in selecting his QB, he would have already given the job to Tommy. Since selecting the QB who gives the team the best chance to win is and has been the factor, Franklin wasn’t ready to make a choice.

 

[Nitt1300]

I remember a QB controversy years back- Mike Cooper vs Bob Parsons.

John Hufnagel wound up with the job.

 

[ILLINOISLION]

I remember a QB controversy years back- Mike Cooper vs Bob Parsons.

John Hufnagel wound up with the job.

1970: IIRC, Cooper and Parsons started the first five games, went 2-3. (Beat Navy to start the season and extend the undefeated thread to 31, then got blown out at Colorado.) Huffy started the final five and went 5-0. PSU went 7-3 with no bowl game.

 

[djr4rebs]

But in that case MRob should have started at QB the previous year.

Probably should have. Mills never had the same arm strength after the shoulder injury (I think). MRob would have still been hamstringed by the lack of WRs on that squad (he was the leading WR in yardage). The influx of Williams, Butler, and Norwood was a major shot in the arm to go along with MRob's legs.

so he was chosen over someone with more upside.

Stevens physical attributes don't necessarily equate to upside.

But you can't use Trace's performance as an indication that it was the right choice, because we have no data for the alternative.

If it were not for a lot of 50:50 deep balls gathered in by some NFL receivers, and a superstar running back that forced skewed defensive coverages, Trace's career statistics and won-loss record might look a lot different. If drawing historic comparisons, the absolute numbers are obviously skewed by career longevity, number of games, participation, and style of offense.

I would have thought that if the two were close, as it became known at decision time, that a bigger, stronger Stevens would have been given more of a chance in real games -- a chance to develop. That is what bothers me as a team fan and alumnus. So I can understand how it would REALLY bother a member of the Stevens family.

I do think the McSorley Vandy-connection played a role, as did his high school record. That fits with human nature. But the only one who really knows is Franklin.

This is where I think one can gather that the staff didn't trust Stevens as a passer. Clifford in his limited snaps has been allowed to sling it. Stevens was brought in for designed runs/zone reads where he usually ran the ball.

Or not.

 

[olelion]

I'm actually surprised he could fit into that portal wearing a walking boot

 

[We Are . . .]

I remember a QB controversy years back- Mike Cooper vs Bob Parsons.

John Hufnagel wound up with the job.

Remember who was Huffy's backup the following year? Steve Joachim who transferred to Temple and won the Maxwell Award in 1974.

 

[marshall23]

I'm actually surprised he could fit into that portal wearing a walking boot

Cheap shot

 

[olelion]

Cheap shot

I suppose it was but I couldn't resist

 

[Option Bob]

Remember who was Huffy's backup the following year? Steve Joachim who transferred to Temple and won the Maxwell Award in 1974.

Ah, yes ... prior to the Internet, so no QB controversy. Remember Joachim's long TD pass to Jimmy Scott against Navy ... something like 85 yards?

Of course, after Huffy came Tom Shuman who merely went 22-2.

 

[LionJim]

That’s a whole lot different than following him from Vandy.

Not the sort of point you’d choose to belabor.

 

[sluggo72]

Not the sort of point you’d choose to belabor.

He stated CJF picked TM over TS because Trace followed him to PSU from Vandy. Which didn’t of course happen, and therefore CJF couldn’t have picked him over TS for that reason. The reason CJF picked TS I think are pretty clear by now

 

[LionJim]

He stated CJF picked TM over TS because Trace followed him to PSU from Vandy. Which didn’t of course happen, and therefore CJF couldn’t have picked him over TS for that reason. The reason CJF picked TS I think are pretty clear by now

You’re splitting hairs. How’s this: “CJF picked Trace because TMcS, after first committing to Vanderbilt, switched his commitment to Penn State when CJF was named PSU head coach.” That DID happen.

 

[sluggo72]

You’re splitting hairs. How’s this: “CJF picked Trace because TMcS, after first committing to Vanderbilt, switched his commitment to Penn State after CJF was named PSU head coach.” That DID happen.

True, which IMO is totally different than following him from Vandy. To follow him from VAndy would imply they had worked together/been a coach player together at a previous time, which isn’t the case. TM got to PSU the same way TS did , CJF recruited them to PSU

 

[LionJim]

You’re splitting hairs. How’s this: “CJF picked Trace because TMcS, after first committing to Vanderbilt, switched his commitment to Penn State when CJF was named PSU head coach.” That DID happen.

True, which IMO is totally different than following him from Vandy. To follow him from VAndy would imply they had worked together/been a coach player together at a previous time, which isn’t the case. TM got to PSU the same way TS did , CJF recruited them to PSU

Like I said, you’re splitting hairs. Yes, of course it’s totally different, but since everyone knows that Trace never even enrolled at Vanderbilt, there can only be one possible interpretation of “following CJF from Vanderbilt” in this thread.

 

[sluggo72]

Like I said, you’re splitting hairs. Yes, of course it’s totally different, but since everyone knows that Trace never even enrolled at Vanderbilt, there can only be one possible interpretation of “following CJF from Vanderbilt” in this thread.

He didn’t imply that at all I don’t think everyone knows that so I’ll continue to split hairs. Look at how he hedged his replies It was a ridiculous comment

 

[kgilbert78]

Fact is we are just going to see more and more of this--it's not just at PSU that this is happening. Backups used to be willing to wait their turn. And that's going to make it tougher for teams to win championships when the main guy gets hurt. Think of tOSU a few years ago when they lost their top two OB's in succession late in the season to injury. We'll probably never see that happen again.

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

Perhaps the competition between Trace and Tommy wasn’t really that close. We all thought that Tommy was a no brainer shoe-in to be QB based on Franklin’s public comments throughout the years. Turns out that wasn’t the case.

And your point re Trace playing with NFL receivers is irrelevant IMO. First, Tommy was throwing to those same guys in practice when he and Trace were competing for the job. Second, if you are going to discount Trace for playing with good receivers or RBs, than you have to discount pretty much every successful QB at Penn State. Also, Haskins and Murray both had receivers that will go higher in the draft than any receiver Trace had at PSU (OSU actually has 3 receivers this year who will prob be first or second round picks while Murray played with Brown who will likely be first WR off the board). Does that make them less as QBs? Third, the idea that Franklin’s decision to start Trace had anything to do with Vandy is silly.

I responded to your suggestion to look at the McSorley statistics and cited reasons why they would be skewed. Either way, there is absolutely no way to use that as an argument for saying TM was the right choice at the time, because, again, you have no idea what would have happened had Stevens been selected. My point was that a lack of data was the problem. I don't think, when two are said to be nearly even, that you don't give both a shot on the field. I believe that Franklin did not want any second guessing.

The "Vandy connection" is about TM switching schools when Franklin switched. That is loyalty to Franklin. It isn't "silly" to think that personal loyalty to a coach doesn't have an effect.

That's not the same as loyalty to a school and team, something that Stevens demonstrated until it became too late. He has to get on the field. He has to improve his chances of that happening. He owes that to himself. Exposure and preparation for what might follow is why he is in school. It's as simple as that.