That call…

[Erial_Lion]

Wasn't Coach told that it had already been reviewed in the booth and confirmed?

Franklin said...

"I talked to all of them. They all agreed on the call and so did the replay official. They all agreed. And I kept bringing them over and saying it's not accurate.

I don't know what else I can tell you, but they all concurred with the officials. They got the headset, they talked to each other, they all agreed. They ran it by replay, they agreed as well. I don't know what else I can do or what else I can say."

 

[marshall23]

Franklin said...

"I talked to all of them. They all agreed on the call and so did the replay official. They all agreed. And I kept bringing them over and saying it's not accurate.

I don't know what else I can tell you, but they all concurred with the officials. They got the headset, they talked to each other, they all agreed. They ran it by replay, they agreed as well. I don't know what else I can do or what else I can say."

Right, so he did what he could.

 

[Erial_Lion]

Right, so he did what he could.

He could have called timeout and challenged it.

 

[marshall23]

He could have called timeout and challenged it.

He could have lost the timeout. How much is a 3d down worth? LOL

 

[MJG-90]

I think there's a difference between outright purposeful "cheating," which is rare, and ingrained bias that influences snap judgments at key times, which is not nearly so rare.

Bias inclines your brain to prefer a certain outcome...and so, unsurprisingly, you decide in favor of that outcome even while insisting you're being entirely impartial. It's a common psychological phenomenon.

Sure but there is also the opposite effect as well. Assuming the ref wishes to be seen as unbiased, there could be a tendency to overcompensate in the opposite direction in order to not be perceived as being biased. That clearly didn't happen on Saturday night though.

 

[marshall23]

He could have called timeout and challenged it.

the officials on the field said 4th down......he was told the booth confirmed it was 4th down.....who pray tell was he to "challenge it" to? I'll bet God was busy.

 

[Erial_Lion]

the officials on the field said 4th down......he was told the booth confirmed it was 4th down.....who pray tell was he to "challenge it" to? I'll bet God was busy.

I guess you don't understand how the NCAA challenge system works?

You challenge the call, force the replay official and the on-field referee to look at the play closer, and then they see their mistake and get it right. It's what happens on every single coaches challenge in NCAA football. The reply official probably had about 10 seconds to look at the sequence...obviously not enough time to realize their error. I'm sure they reversed it 20 seconds, saw that the yard marker said "3" on what should have been the second down play, and kept moving.

They needed to spend more time, take a step back, and review the entire sequence. That's what you'd get out of a challenge in that situation.

 

[fastlax16]

You need some edumacation on B1G officiating. 2014 Ohio State.....they were allowed to kick a field goal three seconds after the play clock hit zero. Plus, a dropped interception was ruled a catch.....upon review they claimed the review system wasn’t functioning so they couldn’t review it.....all the while the stadium big screen was showing the play over and over.

2002....Michigan.....PSU receiver Johnson catches pass take three steps...and is ruled out of bounds. We block a punt....I was there and could here the ball hit player’s hand.....but the player was called for roughing the punter. On third and short plays Michigan was given multiple first downs when refs took a crooked walk to mark the ball.

2005 Michigan.......final minute Mich receiver catches ball and toes come down in bounds but heal lands on sideline....after review refs ruled since toes hit first he was in bounds! Plus they put two seconds back on clock to allow Michigan to get winning TD.

lots more...... Could go on and on.......

Was it against Nebraska or Iowa that McGloin was called for an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty for spiking a dead ball after a play was blown dead? Feel like it was the same one where a TD was overturned and ruled a fumble despite zero evidence to overturn the call on the field? It honestly all blurs together at this point.

 

[fastlax16]

I guess you don't understand how the NCAA challenge system works?

You challenge the call, force the replay official and the on-field referee to look at the play closer, and then they see their mistake and get it right. It's what happens on every single coaches challenge in NCAA football. The reply official probably had about 10 seconds to look at the sequence...obviously not enough time to realize their error. I'm sure they reversed it 20 seconds, saw that the yard marker said "3" on what should have been the second down play, and kept moving.

They needed to spend more time, take a step back, and review the entire sequence. That's what you'd get out of a challenge in that situation.

It took them way more than ten seconds to sort it all out as it was and somehow they still came up with the wrong answer. How much time in your opinion is really required to review/confirm two plays taking place and not three? Its not like this was some sort of nuanced situation, it could not possibly have been more black and white.

 

[Erial_Lion]

It took them way more than ten seconds to sort it all out as it was and somehow they still came up with the wrong answer. How much time in your opinion is really required to review two plays taking place and not three? Its not like this was some sort of nuanced situation, it could not possibly have been more black and white.

I just timed it...from the time the referee blew his whistle to pull them in to discuss, to the time he started his announcement that "the correct down is 4th down", it was 19 seconds. I don't think they reviewed the entire sequence and then came to their decision in those 19 seconds.

 

[PSUSignore]

It took them way more than ten seconds to sort it all out as it was and somehow they still came up with the wrong answer. How much time in your opinion is really required to review/confirm two plays taking place and not three? Its not like this was some sort of nuanced situation, it could not possibly have been more black and white.

In reality it shouldn't have taken more than 10 seconds. I was watching on my TV and rewound the DVR to confirm the refs had it wrong and it didn't take more than a few seconds.

 

[fastlax16]

I just timed it...from the time the referee blew his whistle to pull them in to discuss, to the time he started his announcement that "the correct down is 4th down", it was 19 seconds. I don't think they reviewed the entire sequence and then came to their decision in those 19 seconds.

You're saying he gathered the crew, got on the phone with the booth, confirmed with the crew and the booth the down, communicated it to franklin and then made the annoucement in 19 seconds?

 

[BBrown]

He could have called timeout and challenged it.

 

[marshall23]

I guess you don't understand how the NCAA challenge system works?

You challenge the call, force the replay official and the on-field referee to look at the play closer, and then they see their mistake and get it right. It's what happens on every single coaches challenge in NCAA football. The reply official probably had about 10 seconds to look at the sequence...obviously not enough time to realize their error. I'm sure they reversed it 20 seconds, saw that the yard marker said "3" on what should have been the second down play, and kept moving.

They needed to spend more time, take a step back, and review the entire sequence. That's what you'd get out of a challenge in that situation.

Thanks for getting me up to speed.

 

[marshall23]

and we won.................is this a 4 day thread?

 

[Jerry]

Sure but there is also the opposite effect as well. Assuming the ref wishes to be seen as unbiased, there could be a tendency to overcompensate in the opposite direction in order to not be perceived as being biased. That clearly didn't happen on Saturday night though.

On the other hand, the honest game called at the end, where three critical judgments were made in our favor (all correctly), may have been influenced at some level by their awareness that they had screwed up repeatedly earlier in the contest and looked pretty bad doing so.

 

[fastlax16]

and we won.................is this a 4 day thread?

New around here?

My guess is that sequence is going to be the bad call(s) all other future bad calls are compared against for a long time.

 

[tullfan68]

No argument possible from me. Honest Q, why on Gods Green Earth didn’t the sideline marker dudes, or Franklin, or his assistants throw out a flag there? Again, it was reprehensible. But why didn’t anyone on the PSU sideline go ape shit crazy? Apologies if they did, I was at the game and too drunk to notice.

guess they blew the whistle before the play ended so they marked it where it was when the whistle blew!!no one knows why??SEC CRAP!!

 

[Erial_Lion]

You're saying he gathered the crew, got on the phone with the booth, confirmed with the crew and the booth the down, communicated it to franklin and then made the annoucement in 19 seconds?

He didn’t communicate it to Franklin directly, just announced it. And yes, it was 19 seconds, and a few of those 19 were spent walking to and from their huddle…ie, the “review” was extremely brief.

 

[dwiz]

Watched the replay and the largest culprits were the idiots with the down marker. They had it at third down after the penalty call (when it should have been 2nd down), perhaps these stupid SOB’s thought that loss of down meant two downs. Then take the east way out with review and only look at what the down marker noted.

Those guys are just old timer high school refs. They should know better though. And the SEC refs should certainly be on top of it. Just a clown show all around. How could they all have it wrong? It's insane.

 

[AWS1022]

Remember the season a few years ago when OSU didn't have a single offensive holding call during conference play for an entire season? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

This is what Big officials see when OSU is playing…

 

[Psugo823]

Worst officials I have seen in a long time and hell no, that's not paranoia. It's fact.

 

[crazytoadie]

If anything the replay official should be fired because he has ABSOLUTLY no excuse for getting that wrong. The on field guys maybe got confused, but is something that should be easy to correct with replay. The fact that idiot agreed it was 4th is inexcusable and he should NEVER officiate another game again.

I guess you don't understand how the NCAA challenge system works?

You challenge the call, force the replay official and the on-field referee to look at the play closer, and then they see their mistake and get it right. It's what happens on every single coaches challenge in NCAA football. The reply official probably had about 10 seconds to look at the sequence...obviously not enough time to realize their error. I'm sure they reversed it 20 seconds, saw that the yard marker said "3" on what should have been the second down play, and kept moving.

They needed to spend more time, take a step back, and review the entire sequence. That's what you'd get out of a challenge in that situation.

If the refs were unsure, they should have taken the time to review it just like they do if there is a clock issue.

 

[AWS1022]

Sure but there is also the opposite effect as well. Assuming the ref wishes to be seen as unbiased, there could be a tendency to overcompensate in the opposite direction in order to not be perceived as being biased. That clearly didn't happen on Saturday night though.

Only if he really wants to be seen as unbiased. I don’t think many of them care since likely nothing will happen to them. And deep down I think they really feel they’re being unbiased.

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

This place never ceases to amaze me. We want the QB sneak under center. It works all the time!......it doesn't work....QB had the wrong stance! LOL
James is terrible on time and clock management....take a time out ....it will be given back anyway.....Who will give it back? The officials who were in a conspiracy with the SEC! You can't make this shit up!

I assume this is in response to what I wrote.

What's wrong with being critical of how a play was executed?

If you read all of my posts they are on balance overwhelming positive about both the play calling and Clifford's game. Go back and read the game-day thread.

There is nothing wrong with an open discussion. We should be able to do that without the nonsense that you wrote above. It's the purpose of this board.

 

[The Spin Meister]

I assume this is in response to what I wrote.

What's wrong with being critical of how a play was executed?

If you read all of my posts they are on balance overwhelming positive about both the play calling and Clifford's game. Go back and read the game-day thread.

There is nothing wrong with an open discussion. We should be able to do that without the nonsense that you wrote above. It's the purpose of this board.

Because Lord Marshall has decreed there shall be no questioning coaches. Deal with it, commoner.

 

[WeARE]

All referees should be required to wear a hand down marker.

You know one of these... it is ridiculous that they doe have to wear them.

 

[WaylonJ]

He could have called timeout and challenged it.

He could have flapped his arms to try and fly around the stadium as well. Both would have had equal success.

 

[Erial_Lion]

All referees should be required to wear a hand down marker.

You know one of these... it is ridiculous that they doe have to wear them.

I don't know how many members of a normal NCAA crew wear one, but you see them on plenty of hands while doing a game.

 

[Erial_Lion]

He could have flapped his arms to try and fly around the stadium as well. Both would have had equal success.

Completely incorrect, but I guess it was a fun analogy.

Challenge the play and them almost certainly get the call corrected.

 

[WaylonJ]

Completely incorrect, but I guess it was a fun analogy.

Challenge the play and them almost certainly get the call corrected.

Well here's a question then...are they allowed to go back two plays to determine the down, or just the previous play that showed an errant "3" on the sticks? Serious question I don't know the answer. Once that 2nd down play was run and they called it 3rd, I have a feeling the goose's internal temp was nearing 165F because I doubt they could go back two plays.

 

[Erial_Lion]

Well here's a question then...are they allowed to go back two plays to determine the down, or just the previous play that showed an errant "3" on the sticks? Serious question I don't know the answer. Once that 2nd down play was run and they called it 3rd, I have a feeling the goose's internal temp was nearing 165F because I doubt they could go back two plays.

They can go back multiple plays to correct it. I believe they could have even corrected it after the punt (before Auburn ran a play), but I’m waiting to hear exactly how that would have worked, as the rule book isn’t clear and the case book doesn’t cover it.

 

[Kellerdog]

Hey @Kellerdog.....

Looking to head to Auburn next year for the return visit - thoughts on where to stay, etc? A quick glance at a couple of travel websites indicates nothing within Auburn, and the nearest town with any reasonable hotels is in Columbus GA.

Thoughts? Help out your northern brother.

Auburn has much better options. I’d do it early. I would stay out at the lake. Great golf, boat rentals, condo and house rentals. Stillwater’s on Lake Martin. Beautiful lake, great fishing too. About an Hour from the stadium. Auburn Hotel downtown is really close, right on campus. Several Marriott options, one being the Marriott, RTJ Golf Course with shuttles to campus. Hit me up if you need any help.

 

[WaylonJ]

They can go back multiple plays to correct it. I believe they could have even corrected it after the punt (before Auburn ran a play), but I’m waiting to hear exactly how that would have worked, as the rule book isn’t clear and the case book doesn’t cover it.

Good to know. A link supporting your first sentence would be helpful. Not to be a dick about it but if it's murky territory, past history tells me we're not getting that call and they're not going above the call of duty and go back multiple plays to give PSU the benefit of the doubt. I've never seen it in any game.

On the same side of the coin, if the whole staff is jumping up and down that you have the downs wrong, replay should have done it on their own. Or wouldn't it make sense that there's at least a possibility you're wrong, as an official? I mean if it's actually 4th down and the whole world knows it, who would be going nuts trying to tell you it's 3rd? There's some plausibility there. Then again, these officials have thin skin and they always think they're being shown up so you can't move them.

 

[psuro]

Auburn has much better options. I’d do it early. I would stay out at the lake. Great golf, boat rentals, condo and house rentals. Stillwater’s on Lake Martin. Beautiful lake, great fishing too. About an Hour from the stadium. Auburn Hotel downtown is really close, right on campus. Several Marriott options, one being the Marriott, RTJ Golf Course with shuttles to campus. Hit me up if you need any help.

Thanks bro. Much appreciated.

 

[Erial_Lion]

Good to know. A link supporting your first sentence would be helpful. Not to be a dick about it but if it's murky territory, past history tells me we're not getting that call and they're not going above the call of duty and go back multiple plays to give PSU the benefit of the doubt. I've never seen it in any game.

On the same side of the coin, if the whole staff is jumping up and down that you have the downs wrong, replay should have done it on their own. Or wouldn't it make sense that there's at least a possibility you're wrong, as an official? I mean if it's actually 4th down and the whole world knows it, who would be going nuts trying to tell you it's 3rd? There's some plausibility there. Then again, these officials have thin skin and they always think they're being shown up so you can't move them.

It’s rule 12.6(e) from this year’s NCAA football rule book which contains spots where instant replay/coach’s challenges may be utilized…


Correcting the number of a down.
1. This includes the result of a penalty enforcement that includes an
automatic first down or loss of down.
2. The correction may be made at any time within that series of downs
or before the ball is legally put in play after that series.

 

[WaylonJ]

It’s rule 12.6(e) from this year’s NCAA football rule book which contains spots where instant replay/coach’s challenges may be utilized…


Correcting the number of a down.
1. This includes the result of a penalty enforcement that includes an
automatic first down or loss of down.
2. The correction may be made at any time within that series of downs
or before the ball is legally put in play after that series.

Thanks!

 

[Option Bob]

Nobody every takes into account the t factor. Remember Nebraska 1982?

I don't know what team you call "favorite," but it certainly isn't the one for whom this site exists.

You can read through this thread alone and see numerous examples of clearly horrible calls, yet you feel the need to go back to the one single solitary universal example of referee bias FOR Penn State -- a bang-bang catch on the sideline 39 years ago when there was no video replay. The TE might have had 1 foot in bounds or he might not have. It was a quick play as time was running out. It was anything but a clear, absolute incompletion.

Yet for the past 28 years. I have read Big Ten homers (and, sadly, even some Penn State fans) bring up that McCloskey catch as proof that "the bad calls balance out." Unbelievable.

1. bounced balls called catches/interceptions (2003, 2014)
2. WR's heel OOB called completions (2005)
3. WR 2-3 yards inside the sideline when he catches a pass ruled incomplete (2002)
3. FG attempts made 4 seconds after the play clock expires (2014)
4, referee stopping the clock on a running play in bounds when Michigan was out of TOs to allow a FG attempt (2009)
5. referee calling TO for Ohio State when play clock was near zero (2014)
6. a TE reaching ball clearly over the goal line called a fumble , even after review (2012)
7. and all the plays discussed from Saturday's game

Yet what is the response to show how "the calls all balance out"?
One pass reception in 1982.

 

[lazydave841]

Yet what is the response to show how "the calls all balance out"?
One pass reception in 1982.

Been paying for it ever since.

 

[AWS1022]

I don't know what team you call "favorite," but it certainly isn't the one for whom this site exists.

You can read through this thread alone and see numerous examples of clearly horrible calls, yet you feel the need to go back to the one single solitary universal example of referee bias FOR Penn State -- a bang-bang catch on the sideline 39 years ago when there was no video replay. The TE might have had 1 foot in bounds or he might not have. It was a quick play as time was running out. It was anything but a clear, absolute incompletion.

Yet for the past 28 years. I have read Big Ten homers (and, sadly, even some Penn State fans) bring up that McCloskey catch as proof that "the bad calls balance out." Unbelievable.

1. bounced balls called catches/interceptions (2003, 2014)
2. WR's heel OOB called completions (2005)
3. WR 2-3 yards inside the sideline when he catches a pass ruled incomplete (2002)
3. FG attempts made 4 seconds after the play clock expires (2014)
4, referee stopping the clock on a running play in bounds when Michigan was out of TOs to allow a FG attempt (2009)
5. referee calling TO for Ohio State when play clock was near zero (2014)
6. a TE reaching ball clearly over the goal line called a fumble , even after review (2012)
7. and all the plays discussed from Saturday's game

Yet what is the response to show how "the calls all balance out"?
One pass reception in 1982.

Before we were in the Big 10….many Big homers forget that. Yes, we got some calls when we were an independent, that ended when we joined the conference.