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Thoughts on Iowa match

Like they used to tell us, "If you have to tell somebody who you are, then you probably aren't".
On top of that, there's the whole matter of making a scene, not once but twice, before and after.
And if that wasn't enough, they got their asses handed to them!
But, he is just a kid, and therefore this is where the leadership should come in to alter his path.
Let's see what the leadership does with this...

Yes, agreed. Just pointing out that Gilman's statement at its heart was "smack talk" and the saying I grew up with from coaches applies "Walk the the talk...or better yet, talk is cheap, keep your mouth shut and just let your walk do the talking"....

When your "smack talk" conflicts diametrically with reality, you look like a complete clown when reality is simply demonstrated again in the actual competition. Many Iowa fans though Cael was "smack talking" back in 2009 relative to the public comments he made after taking the PSU job...and attempted to ridicule those comments. As Iowa found out, Cael wasn't talking smack out of his @ss, he was simply stating what he was going to do.... In any event, Iowa talking smack about other team's low-scoring "gamed" styles, especially in Duals, is beyond ironic and absurd if you ask me. By all means, if Gilman wants to continue to make an @ss of himself on the topic, which he's certainly entitled to do, he should just keep flapping his gums....but imho, the only parties he is making look like an @ss is himself and Iowa in general as he clearly made reference to "we" and that he was speaking for the program and Iowa's staff never bothered to correct the record (i.e., saying that they don't necessarily share those feelings and that Gilman was only speaking for himself and expressing his own personal views....).
 
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On top of that, there's the whole matter of making a scene...
That's a good point. There's a difference between sincerely speaking your mind because someone asked (not as bad, to me) versus getting into a shouting match and perhaps challenging someone to a fight (bad).
 
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That's a good point. There's a difference between sincerely speaking your mind because someone asked (not as bad, to me) versus getting into a shouting match and perhaps challenging someone to a fight (bad).

Yep exactly, little kids watching that garbage...some day you can be a big time college wrestler and act like this...
Problem is, the leadership simply does not have the mood management skills to lead by example, so we're seeing their followers carrying out the Pro-Wrestling style tradition.
 
Actually I don't "have to" explain the points at all, especially to an all attack, no substance internet toughguy like "aalion" lmao, since I have Nitlion6, who explained it FOR ME, in another thread HAHAHAHAHAHA

"If Hall wins that is 20 placement + advancement points, figure a fall and 3 MD that's 25 points (perfect world).
Morelli or Rasheed finish 8th that's 5.5 or so. Finish 6th 10 points or so.
Finish blood round that's a couple points.

If the assumption is Hall finishes 1st or 2nd and Morelli/Rasheed finish round of 12 to 6-8, the math is maximized for effect but generally is OK."

64

OH, and that is ASSUMING our current #14 ranked guys, out wrestle their seeds by SIX SEEDS and finish 8th.
I just wanted to know what you thought the difference would be. I didnt know or notice that you agreed with the NitLion opinion. In my opinion, not that you care, Hall is probably worth 15 extra. And like in other years, including one where the famous "looks like its Okie State or Minny now" post was made on Friday evening, I think that we can get it done with 5 or 6 major point getters, based on what we know now. I would not be at all shocked with 4 finalists, 7 AAs, at least 2 champs, and 12+ more bonus points that OSU. And I think that more than gets it done.
 
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A whole lot of running your mouth and attacking and nothing about the actual sport of wrestling. Nice post. LMAO.

I never wrestled. I know moest of the rules but have no clue on things like locked hands. No idea what is considered a parallel ride. Could not identify a whizzer from a Russian tie. What I know, I learned from these boards, and from Ironhead. So I cannot discuss intelligently matchups, is Jimmy too small for 141, MM too small for 197, is Stolll stalling or just working the underhook? What I do know, however, is that the math that has been put forth by very knowledgeable posters, and places like Intermat and Wrestestat, does not agree that Oklahoma State is a clear favorite as you have declared without condition. Looking at current rankings, consensus rankings, etc., and using models that from there predict tournament placement and advancement, OSU is only a handful of points ahead of PSU as currently constructed. And history would imply, and again alot of knowledgeable people agree, that PSU will out bonus by 5 or more. So, they are neck and neck based on the math I see. Not "OSU clearcut favorites". And given that 1) I am a fan, and 2) Cael seems to be pretty damn good at getting his crew ready for March, I think it is a reasonable opinion that PSU can win without Hall. Might be wrong, but it isn't something that "cannot be argued".
 
I never wrestled. I know moest of the rules but have no clue on things like locked hands. No idea what is considered a parallel ride. Could not identify a whizzer from a Russian tie. What I know, I learned from these boards, and from Ironhead. So I cannot discuss intelligently matchups, is Jimmy too small for 141, MM too small for 197, is Stolll stalling or just working the underhook? What I do know, however, is that the math that has been put forth by very knowledgeable posters, and places like Intermat and Wrestestat, does not agree that Oklahoma State is a clear favorite as you have declared without condition. Looking at current rankings, consensus rankings, etc., and using models that from there predict tournament placement and advancement, OSU is only a handful of points ahead of PSU as currently constructed. And history would imply, and again alot of knowledgeable people agree, that PSU will out bonus by 5 or more. So, they are neck and neck based on the math I see. Not "OSU clearcut favorites". And given that 1) I am a fan, and 2) Cael seems to be pretty damn good at getting his crew ready for March, I think it is a reasonable opinion that PSU can win without Hall. Might be wrong, but it isn't something that "cannot be argued".
I agree with all of that! I do think it's better for us to be ranked #2 though. Now let's outperform that ranking!
 
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
a1e200d27de83cdc4c09513f416a7903b6824d508b994a7aba40aed891b22dc7.jpg
 
I never wrestled. I know moest of the rules but have no clue on things like locked hands. No idea what is considered a parallel ride. Could not identify a whizzer from a Russian tie. What I know, I learned from these boards, and from Ironhead. So I cannot discuss intelligently matchups, is Jimmy too small for 141, MM too small for 197, is Stolll stalling or just working the underhook? What I do know, however, is that the math that has been put forth by very knowledgeable posters, and places like Intermat and Wrestestat, does not agree that Oklahoma State is a clear favorite as you have declared without condition. Looking at current rankings, consensus rankings, etc., and using models that from there predict tournament placement and advancement, OSU is only a handful of points ahead of PSU as currently constructed. And history would imply, and again alot of knowledgeable people agree, that PSU will out bonus by 5 or more. So, they are neck and neck based on the math I see. Not "OSU clearcut favorites". And given that 1) I am a fan, and 2) Cael seems to be pretty damn good at getting his crew ready for March, I think it is a reasonable opinion that PSU can win without Hall. Might be wrong, but it isn't something that "cannot be argued".

Would agree with your analysis at the bottom - I think the formulas that project and include bonus scoring in their Tournament Rankings favor PSU. In terms of a dual, it is pretty much a dead-heat with PSU holding the advantage at 25, 49, 57, 84 and HWT - Okie State holding the advantage at 33, 41, 74 and 97 and 65 being pretty much a "toss-up" with a razor thin advantage to VinJo in the rankings (not meaningful though imho - I see VinJo and Rogers as being pretty inseparable on paper especially after Rogers performance yesterday).

When factoring in bonus. an important element of Tournament Scoring, the advantage is in PSU's favor especially given the emergence of Nevills and VinJo as not only threats to go very deep in the Championship Bracket, but also a major bonus scoring machines on top of PSU's Big 3 @ 49, 57 and 84.
 
Hats off to the Cowboys: No holes at all, will send ten, and will score points from all ten, and every one of the ten is the best option possible.

Favorites, clear cut.

Not only is it not clear cut, but there are good sources out there that have Penn State as the tournament favorite. TOM, for example, says:

"Penn State, after a strong performance against Minnesota and Nebraska, is starting to pull away from second-place Oklahoma State."
 
Penn State does not need Hall they have enough to win it with this line up.
For example just my opinion.
125...2-3
133...rd12
141..7-8
149..1-with lots of bonus points.
157...1- with lots of bonus points
165...rd of 12...with some bonus points.
174...7-8
184..2-with lots of bonus points.
197...8
Hwt. 6

So looks like 8 AA, 2 champs,and 2 seconds will be settled by Friday nite take it to the bookie...:)
 
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If wrestling used the CFP model, intermat's ranking would have some significance above causal conversation material for wrestling fans. Wrestling championships (and championship opportunities) are competitively earned so other than casual conversation material intermat's rankings offer little else.

Just a thought. Lineups as they are.
Oklahoma State with a pretty much 10 AA perfect tournament could be looking at say 117 points. Which is a significant challenge for the title.

If I give PSU a total of 9.5 points from 141, 174 and 197 (0 from 133) without too much effort and not any stretch I come up with PSU at something around 129. That's just having a solid tournament.

Unless the team develops health issues this particular group of kids will be very difficult to beat in the team race.
 
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I think Intermat's ranking are pretty good and offer a fairly accurate evaluation of where teams stand. Certainly not perfect, but much better then bias fans that tend to give their team the benefit if the doubt wherever possible while downgrading the other teams prospects.
 
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I think Intermat's ranking are pretty good and offer a fairly accurate evaluation of where teams stand. Certainly not perfect, but much better then bias fans that tend to give their team the benefit if the doubt wherever possible while downgrading the other teams prospects.
Bet u one "I told you so" I am closer than intermat.;)
 
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You do realize that PSU has won NCs before by only having 8 wrestlers qualify and only 5 AAs.

No. you probably don't realize that.

You're terrible at understanding tournament scoring. And you're terrible at posting in general.


I agree with your post, but each year is different. Oklahoma State could have 10 AA this year. Although I don't see their 125 making AA, but he has a shot. Heavyweight might struggle as well, but he is a powerful athletic guy so he has a shot.

This puts a lot more pressure on PSU to have more AA this year. PSU should have 3 finalists, 149, 157 and 184. Have a shot at 125, but a lot will depend on his seed. If Nick beats everyone, but loses to Gilman in the duals and Big Ten's, does he fall to a 4 or 5 seed meaning he meets Gilman in the semi's. Hopefully Suriano gets the opportunity to knock out NP of Ok St in the quarters or earlier.

133 is looking like we might have no one. If Cortez comes back, I see an outside shot of being an AA. Cortez is not in the same category as the top 5 or 6. Brock could be in the finals for OK ST

141 has Heil. I expect him in the finals, but he is not a big point scorer. I have no idea what we will get from Jimmy. I do know he will not be a very high sees si he is going to get a top 5 guy early.

149 Z- Train in the finals. AC of Ok State could well be his opponent

157 - Nold in the finals. Smith of OK ST has struggled a little this year. I expect him to be an AA, but trending to possibly not.

165 - This is a key weight for PSU and OK ST. I feel it could determine the NC race. IMAR in the finals. Both Rogers and Cenzo can score a lot of bonus points. I feel like either one of these guys could be in the finals if they get hot at the right time.

174 - KC of Ok St should be an AA. Although watching Hall beat him easily at the scuffle leaves questions. Not sure how far Morelli or Rasheed can go. Both have AA potential, but not seeing it. Obviously Hall is a top 3 kid this year, but I believe he will redshirt.

184 - Bo in the finals. Boyd has beaten some good opponents, but he was torn up by Brooks. I expect Boyd to be an AA.

197 - I'm concerned for Cutch. I know he has some time to change his approach, but right now his lack of length kills him at this weight. I thought AA was a real possibility, not so sure now. Weigle will be an AA.

HWY - If Nick keeps progressing the way he has this year, I can see a 4 to 7 finish. Schaffer has a shot at AA, but his size may hurt him.


I really feel in order to win it this year, they will need a lot of bonus points, cenzo, nick, Cutch and Neville to place and to me which could be the most important is sqeeze as many points as possible from 133, 141 and 174.
 
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I agree with your post, but each year is different. Oklahoma State could have 10 AA this year. Although I don't see their 125 making AA, but he has a shot. Heavyweight might struggle as well, but he is a powerful athletic guy so he has a shot.

This puts a lot more pressure on PSU to have more AA this year. PSU should have 3 finalists, 149, 157 and 184. Have a shot at 125, but a lot will depend on his seed. If Nick beats everyone, but loses to Gilman in the duals and Big Ten's, does he fall to a 4 or 5 seed meaning he meets Gilman in the semi's. Hopefully Suriano gets the opportunity to knock out NP of Ok St in the quarters or earlier.

133 is looking like we might have no one. If Cortez comes back, I see an outside shot of being an AA. Cortez is not in the same category as the top 5 or 6. Brock could be in the finals for OK ST

141 has Heil. I expect him in the finals, but he is not a big point scorer. I have no idea what we will get from Jimmy. I do know he will not be a very high sees si he is going to get a top 5 guy early.

149 Z- Train in the finals. AC of Ok State could well be his opponent

157 - Nold in the finals. Smith of OK ST has struggled a little this year. I expect him to be an AA, but trending to possibly not.

165 - This is a key weight for PSU and OK ST. I feel it could determine the NC race. IMAR in the finals. Both Rogers and Cenzo can score a lot of bonus points. I feel like either one of these guys could be in the finals if they get hot at the right time.

174 - KC of Ok St should be an AA. Although watching Hall beat him easily at the scuffle leaves questions. Not sure how far Morelli or Rasheed can go. Both have AA potential, but not seeing it. Obviously Hall is a top 3 kid this year, but I believe he will redshirt.

184 - Bo in the finals. Boyd has beaten some good opponents, but he was torn up by Brooks. I expect Boyd to be an AA.

197 - I'm concerned for Cutch. I know he has some time to change his approach, but right now his lack of length kills him at this weight. I thought AA was a real possibility, not so sure now. Weigle will be an AA.

HWY - If Nick keeps progressing the way he has this year, I can see a 4 to 7 finish. Schaffer has a shot at AA, but his size may hurt him.


I really feel in order to win it this year, they will need a lot of bonus points, cenzo, nick, Cutch and Neville to place and to me which could be the most important is sqeeze as many points as possible from 133, 141 and 174.

Nevills' ceiling is higher than 4-7 at this point imho. Comparing their resumes - especially against common opponents - there is simply nothing there that points to Medberry being at another level than Nick. HWT is Snyder and then "everyone else" imho. At this point, Medberry, Waltz, Hall, Nevills have not really separated from one another.
 
I agree with your post, but each year is different. Oklahoma State could have 10 AA this year. Although I don't see their 125 making AA, but he has a shot. Heavyweight might struggle as well, but he is a powerful athletic guy so he has a shot.

Okie State could have 10 AAs this year, but it's very unlikely. Most of their guys are ranked in that 6-8 slot, I'd be surprised if every single one of them AA'd. But stranger things have happened I guess.

I do agree with you that 165 could be decisive for the team race. Joseph/Rogers is a big one, so is heavyweight and Nevills/Schafer. Honestly, Bo/Dean very well may end up deciding the team race if it happens (and I like our guy, but see why people would pick Dean, he's great too).

I get that placement points have OSU ahead, but let's just wait and let this play out. We pretty much know our lineup at this point, Morelli looks like our 174 (because as has been said over and over again, Hall's shirt is not getting pulled), and we'll hopefully get Cortez back so he can get a more favorable seed.

Okie State can be a problem with a bunch of AAs, but I'm not sure I favor any of them to win it all apart from Heil. They could very well have a lot of guys at the bottom step of the podium, and we may have 5 or 6 at or near the top. That could make a huge difference.

Let's let this play out and see where things are after B1Gs.
 
I would guess about 7-8 AA for OSU. I would guess 7 for PSU and 6-7 for Iowa. I would guess 5 for tOSU. Many things happen to keep guys from the podium. I think the bonus potential for PSU makes it hard to bet against them. 125,149,157,184, and 285 all look like top 5 guys. 165 looks like a solid bet for at least top 8 with a much higher ceiling. I think between 141,174, and 197 PSU lands that 7/th AA.
Iowa has sure things at 125,133,149,157. Good chances at 184 and 285. outside chances at 141,174. I say 6-7 with a solid tournament.
OSU looks real good for 133,141,149,157,165,174,184, and 197. I just think 125 and 285 will falter, and the bonus guys are not there.

tOSU has the bonus guys, but 133,149,174,197,285 could be the complete AA list if Martin doesn't start showing improvement quickly. Lightning rarely strikes twice in the same place.

VT could end up with a strong showing and pass somebody in this group as well.

I will be mildly surprised if any points are needed at 133 to win it. Cortez is like cruise control. Nice feature, but you can get where you want to be without using it. Mark Hall would be the turbo and fuzz buster, but lets not go there.
 
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We all know Tim Johnson is an Iowa homer. He keeps talking about Hawkeyes that won their matches against Penn State. I wonder if he will show fair balance and discuss Nickal's 38 second pin against Brooks when he wrestles.
 
We all know Tim Johnson is an Iowa homer. He keeps talking about Hawkeyes that won their matches against Penn State. I wonder if he will show fair balance and discuss Nickal's 38 second pin against Brooks when he wrestles.
If all Timmy has to talk about is the kids who won their matches against Penn State, he has a limited amount of conversation material.
 
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