Alex I will take recruiting rival's athletes for 1,000 please.
Two are conference brethren and the third stands between.
Who are Tom Ryan, Scott Goodale and Jeff Karam.
Will / Can Ohio State Punt Next Year ?
- Thread starter Sportfan2017
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Two are conference brethren and the third stands between.
Who are Tom Ryan, Scott Goodale and Jeff Karam.
I really thought it’d be a secret till the last hour but what everNo Schram isn’t going to put Ohio State in contention for a title but it gives a chance to stay high in the trophy hunt and redshirt Heinselman. Not much of an odd decision either he was teammates with Joey McKenna for 2 years at Stanford
Sorry about that !!!
This birdie chirps once in awhile - same guy connected in WPIALs who said Teasdale was flipping to PSU from Iowa 4-6 weeks before it happened.
And that Nolf would wrestle 2 matches at B1Gs and then coaches would MFF him.
He’s always hearing different odds & ends w WPIAL kids.
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Sorry about that !!!
This birdie chirps once in awhile - same guy connected in WPIALs who said Teasdale was flipping to PSU from Iowa 4-6 weeks before it happened.
And that Nolf would wrestle 2 matches at B1Gs and then coaches would MFF him.
He’s always hearing different odds & ends w WPIAL kids.
You should give us the bird more often!
Great post. That's a lot of talent on that squad and coming in. But some of them will need to break through and become national finalist if they ever want to win a national title. It will be interesting to see how many of them can. Pretty sure they can't win a title wih just a bunch of high AAs.
Sounds like he’s right more times than he is wrongSorry about that !!!
This birdie chirps once in awhile - same guy connected in WPIALs who said Teasdale was flipping to PSU from Iowa 4-6 weeks before it happened.
And that Nolf would wrestle 2 matches at B1Gs and then coaches would MFF him.
He’s always hearing different odds & ends w WPIAL kids.
Tommy Rowlands again today, says that Ryan should punt. Says that it makes no sense to run McKenna, Martin, and Pletcher back out for 2nd place this year, when you can shirt them and take a title in 2020. TaTo isn't listening apparently. Frankly, by going all in this season, TaTo opens up 2020 as a dead heat between as many as maybe 4 or 5 teams, instead of his own team being a front runner. And not a front runner like they were this year, as a "1 and 1A" thing with PSU, but as a clear number one.
Adding to psualt’s reasoning that a later redshirt might not guarantee improved outcomes (esp. at NCAA’s)....
Sometimes younger kids coming-in are just better than title-contending upper classmen, whether it is attributable to match-ups or talent. Optically, this could mask real improvement gained from a late redshirt.
And they don't have the disadvantage of having spent years under Ryan's tutelage.
Agree. It’s so much easier and sensible to red shirt freshmen and not “soon to be” juniors and seniors.... that’s one of Cael’s strengths is his roster management. He has a plan for every kid when they start. Then it’s up to the kids to change things like Hall and Lee did. The McIntosh, Megaludis, and Retherford RS’s were planned out after their freshmen years when they were recruited.
Here’s the thing then...(Sorry sort of long FYI )
From all accounts from the horses mouth ( let’s call him TaTo for this boards sake lol) it absolutely does not sound like OSU is punting next year.
The biggest ‘nugget’ I’ve heard mentioning Micah Jordan going 149 was from Bob Pruesse which has to be taken seriously, he said it was all but a certainty. So let’s try and dissect the logic involved here..
We know in the spirit of going all in at a run for the team chip, putting the best lineup out on the mat far exceeds putting a senior wrestler in a slot that increases his chance for a title. Especially if this move creates and even bigger hole in the lineup at weight Micah would be vacating at 157, and it won’t happen because he’s (Micah)taken lineup lumps in the past which maybe didn’t best suit him , but was for the betterment of the team.
If there are no redshirts, and Schram is coming at 125, then there obviously is only 3 scenarios that a for sure Micah Jordan move down to 149 creates for this lineup.
1) KeShawn Hayes is asked to move up to 157.
***My take:
This is the least likely to happen, like no chance in it happening. Hayes mind you was a 141 just a week before the season began. No evidence whatsoever would lead anyone to believe this is in the cards.
2) KeShawn Hayes becomes one of, if the not BEST backup in the country to McKenna and Jordan.
***About as plausible as scenario #1.
First reason, $! As a blue chip recruit, no one who receives blue chip $ rides a team’s bench blocking other talent from coming in, ask Thomas Haines.
Second reason:
For this to happen, a decision would have already been made that a true freshman wrestler who has yet to step on campus is going to make the lineup better with them stepping in at 57 with Micah going 49, versus remaining the same way next season...
Doesn’t make sense.
Before scenario 3, here is my case for KeShawn Hayes:
1) Kid was a 141 a week before the season started, and competed in a weight class undersized without a chance to properly bulk up and prepare headed into the season. And was a top 6 guy at the weigh for majority of the season.
2) Did so without complaining and actually without even losing a wrestle off with McKenna he was promised.
3) Lost 6 matches.
A)1 fluke with two completely gassed throws in the 3rd period to Deluca of Rutgers after going up 6-0 early.
B) 2 to the eventual 3rd place guy Heilman in his weight, once being gassed in the 3rd after going up 6-0 at Cliff Keen to only lose by 1, and once in the quarters in Cbus by 1 point In Overtime.
C) 2 to 2 time National runner up Brandon Sorensen. One very close, one not.
D) 2 to Zain. Took Zain train down twice in first period. And even if it was because reportedly Zain was working on pinning combinations from his butt, it still counts.
His exit out of the tourney and to not All American was his heart breaker to Heilman, and to Sorensen in the blood round. Brutal draw.
Scenario 3:
KeShawn is transferring out.
My take: his dad already refuted this via email to Bob Pruesse of all people.
My conclusion to all this....
NOTHING MAKES SENSE.
Hope that helps.
Lol.
From all accounts from the horses mouth ( let’s call him TaTo for this boards sake lol) it absolutely does not sound like OSU is punting next year.
The biggest ‘nugget’ I’ve heard mentioning Micah Jordan going 149 was from Bob Pruesse which has to be taken seriously, he said it was all but a certainty. So let’s try and dissect the logic involved here..
We know in the spirit of going all in at a run for the team chip, putting the best lineup out on the mat far exceeds putting a senior wrestler in a slot that increases his chance for a title. Especially if this move creates and even bigger hole in the lineup at weight Micah would be vacating at 157, and it won’t happen because he’s (Micah)taken lineup lumps in the past which maybe didn’t best suit him , but was for the betterment of the team.
If there are no redshirts, and Schram is coming at 125, then there obviously is only 3 scenarios that a for sure Micah Jordan move down to 149 creates for this lineup.
1) KeShawn Hayes is asked to move up to 157.
***My take:
This is the least likely to happen, like no chance in it happening. Hayes mind you was a 141 just a week before the season began. No evidence whatsoever would lead anyone to believe this is in the cards.
2) KeShawn Hayes becomes one of, if the not BEST backup in the country to McKenna and Jordan.
***About as plausible as scenario #1.
First reason, $! As a blue chip recruit, no one who receives blue chip $ rides a team’s bench blocking other talent from coming in, ask Thomas Haines.
Second reason:
For this to happen, a decision would have already been made that a true freshman wrestler who has yet to step on campus is going to make the lineup better with them stepping in at 57 with Micah going 49, versus remaining the same way next season...
Doesn’t make sense.
Before scenario 3, here is my case for KeShawn Hayes:
1) Kid was a 141 a week before the season started, and competed in a weight class undersized without a chance to properly bulk up and prepare headed into the season. And was a top 6 guy at the weigh for majority of the season.
2) Did so without complaining and actually without even losing a wrestle off with McKenna he was promised.
3) Lost 6 matches.
A)1 fluke with two completely gassed throws in the 3rd period to Deluca of Rutgers after going up 6-0 early.
B) 2 to the eventual 3rd place guy Heilman in his weight, once being gassed in the 3rd after going up 6-0 at Cliff Keen to only lose by 1, and once in the quarters in Cbus by 1 point In Overtime.
C) 2 to 2 time National runner up Brandon Sorensen. One very close, one not.
D) 2 to Zain. Took Zain train down twice in first period. And even if it was because reportedly Zain was working on pinning combinations from his butt, it still counts.
His exit out of the tourney and to not All American was his heart breaker to Heilman, and to Sorensen in the blood round. Brutal draw.
Scenario 3:
KeShawn is transferring out.
My take: his dad already refuted this via email to Bob Pruesse of all people.
My conclusion to all this....
NOTHING MAKES SENSE.
Hope that helps.
Lol.
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given this:
"2) Did so without complaining and actually without even losing a wrestle off with McKenna he was promised."
I wouldn't be surprised if he took his ball and went home.
The funny thing about this redshirt scenario is it’s often being portrayed as Tom Ryan driven, and not the wrestler. Wrestling is the one sport like no other in college in terms of athletics relative to redshirting.
It’s 99% a not ready to compete physically and or mentally with other major collegient sports. In wrestling, it’s a priveledge to redshirt, a priveledge most wrestlers earn either through performance, or as a blue chip recruit/status arriving on campus.
One of the best examples to all this is ironic two fold here . Zain Retherford is not only one of your guys, he’s in the conversation as one of the most dominant wrestlers of our era evidence to his second Hodge he just collected. Retherford didn’t redshirt the conventional way coming in , he competed his first season and took 5th or 6th at the tourney.
Retherford had 1 no brainer reason in his thought of redshirting relative to the team with Nickal/Nolf etc co redshirting what would be his true sophomore year, and another which made sense to him personally in Logan Stieber.
Stieber eliminated him his true freshman year from the national tournament and had 1 year eligibility remaining. It just made sense across the board for one of the best wrestlers of our era to redshirt already 1 year in competing.
Why does it not make sense for others??
A guy like McKenna might not make sense. He’s on a World team and may not want to pursue a graduate degree at Ohio State to stick around.
Pletcher may want to redshirt just to mature another year, like everyone else does/did including Nickal, Nolf etc.. and look at how many of those type of guys lose their redshirt season and then compete at the highest of levels the next.
These kids are maturing every year they are in school.
Martin has beaten Nickal before, just like a freshman Zain beat Logan Stieber. But would there be a clearer path for Martin after a guy who owns a 7-2 record against him leaves via graduation? Uh ya, I think so. Zahid there or not.
In saying all this, I’d personally hate to see this redshirt thing happen. I want to see the best take the mat every year, a punting year just seems so depressing.
But it’s foolish to discount the perks and priveledge involved in it’s process, both for the wrestler and the team alike.
It’s 99% a not ready to compete physically and or mentally with other major collegient sports. In wrestling, it’s a priveledge to redshirt, a priveledge most wrestlers earn either through performance, or as a blue chip recruit/status arriving on campus.
One of the best examples to all this is ironic two fold here . Zain Retherford is not only one of your guys, he’s in the conversation as one of the most dominant wrestlers of our era evidence to his second Hodge he just collected. Retherford didn’t redshirt the conventional way coming in , he competed his first season and took 5th or 6th at the tourney.
Retherford had 1 no brainer reason in his thought of redshirting relative to the team with Nickal/Nolf etc co redshirting what would be his true sophomore year, and another which made sense to him personally in Logan Stieber.
Stieber eliminated him his true freshman year from the national tournament and had 1 year eligibility remaining. It just made sense across the board for one of the best wrestlers of our era to redshirt already 1 year in competing.
Why does it not make sense for others??
A guy like McKenna might not make sense. He’s on a World team and may not want to pursue a graduate degree at Ohio State to stick around.
Pletcher may want to redshirt just to mature another year, like everyone else does/did including Nickal, Nolf etc.. and look at how many of those type of guys lose their redshirt season and then compete at the highest of levels the next.
These kids are maturing every year they are in school.
Martin has beaten Nickal before, just like a freshman Zain beat Logan Stieber. But would there be a clearer path for Martin after a guy who owns a 7-2 record against him leaves via graduation? Uh ya, I think so. Zahid there or not.
In saying all this, I’d personally hate to see this redshirt thing happen. I want to see the best take the mat every year, a punting year just seems so depressing.
But it’s foolish to discount the perks and priveledge involved in it’s process, both for the wrestler and the team alike.
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you would be surprised. When PSU punted a few years ago, it gave my nerves a chance to recover and turned out to be a very enjoyable season. It was really refreshing to enter a season again without expectations.
Just pondering. Hayes never looked undersized at 149 and he had gas tank issues throughout the season.
Other than having to compete at a weight that has Jason Nolf in it as well as Kemerer and Hidlay I am not sure 157 would not be a good weight class for the kid. Just saying.
A second point of ponder. In 2020 when the PSU lineup will still have Cenzo and maybe Mark (Olympic options) in it as anchors with the different new recruits filling the voids the team race is not going to be a 4 or 5 horse race. Probably one from Iowa, both OSUs and maybe Michigan might step to the front to challenge the Nits, but most likely they will battle fiercely for that second place trophy.
Other than having to compete at a weight that has Jason Nolf in it as well as Kemerer and Hidlay I am not sure 157 would not be a good weight class for the kid. Just saying.
A second point of ponder. In 2020 when the PSU lineup will still have Cenzo and maybe Mark (Olympic options) in it as anchors with the different new recruits filling the voids the team race is not going to be a 4 or 5 horse race. Probably one from Iowa, both OSUs and maybe Michigan might step to the front to challenge the Nits, but most likely they will battle fiercely for that second place trophy.
PSU will be very strong in 2020 with the three young lightweights and Busiello battling it out for two spots. NLee, Verklereen, Berge, and Joseph in the 41-65 weights followed by Hall (JLee or Manville if Hall RS), Brooks, Cassar (a 6th yr?)/Beard and Nevills II. No one has that depth from top to bottom.
A nationals output of 130-140 pts maybe their new norm. It’s pick your poison for the field.
A nationals output of 130-140 pts maybe their new norm. It’s pick your poison for the field.
Nice to see you embracing your inner child and having fun with the nickname, BFosr1. Welcome to the club. Now pull my finger.
Looks can definitely be deceiving, take a look at any of his matches at 141 you won’t see as many gas tank problems as you did at 149. If he were to wrestle 157 it would more than likely be worse imo. Gas tank issues can be more than just cutting weight if that’s what you’re alluding to and having to wrestle against guys who may be bigger than you can definitely tire you out quicker. His ceiling is 149 and could probably be a legit one with a summer in the weight room.
RANK WRESTLER SCHOOL CLASS CONFERENCE
1 Jason Nolf
2. Hayden Hidlay
3 Tyler Berger
4 Michael Kemerer
5 Alec Pantaleo
6 Josh Shields
Hayes best case scenario is 7th, 1 place down from where Micah finished this year. BUT...
1. Matthew Kolodzik
2. Grant Leeth
3. Boo Lewellen
Micah could end up at the top of the podium.
Let's give you 30 points for this. You still need 35 more to equal Nato, Snyder, and Bojo. Schram, Campbell and Singletary aren't getting you more than 20 to 25 at the very best. Still, it's the right move, but all of this calculus and math and stratego is all head scratching, because the points are not there unless you pull off two more transfers.
Hey, it could happen because with the new rules, anybody can go anywhere, but all you have to do is punt and 2020 is yours unless you go out and crap the bed. To me, TaTo is letting his heart rule his head, or he forgot his SPF 15 and all that Aruba sun has caused damage beyone repair.
1 Jason Nolf
2. Hayden Hidlay
3 Tyler Berger
4 Michael Kemerer
5 Alec Pantaleo
6 Josh Shields
Hayes best case scenario is 7th, 1 place down from where Micah finished this year. BUT...
1. Matthew Kolodzik
2. Grant Leeth
3. Boo Lewellen
Micah could end up at the top of the podium.
Let's give you 30 points for this. You still need 35 more to equal Nato, Snyder, and Bojo. Schram, Campbell and Singletary aren't getting you more than 20 to 25 at the very best. Still, it's the right move, but all of this calculus and math and stratego is all head scratching, because the points are not there unless you pull off two more transfers.
Hey, it could happen because with the new rules, anybody can go anywhere, but all you have to do is punt and 2020 is yours unless you go out and crap the bed. To me, TaTo is letting his heart rule his head, or he forgot his SPF 15 and all that Aruba sun has caused damage beyone repair.
Yeah Hayes could be a legit 1 seed, and so could Micah. You get more total points with Hayes staying put and Micah staying put, because Micah is getting you more points at 157 than Hayes can, and I think it's a push at 49 with either of them: Either one of them could take the top of the podium in Pittsburgh. Unless of course Yianni, lol.
Yianni’s Staying put at 141, It’s certainly not a certainty that either would be a 1 seed in March but it’s definitely not out of the realm for either considering their skill sets. Preusse is a lot more informed on what goes on at Ohio State than I am. It’s gonna be an interesting situation to see unfold
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Probably. But, I'm wondering about 7 months recovery, and then a giant brace. We'll see.
Over at HR some of them have Lugo taking 3rd? Looks like everyone is super optimistic for 49 this season, because that's like the 5th different wrestler I've seen who is "going to the top of the podium" at 49 next season, lol. What the hell, I say it's Gfeller vs Verkleeren in a rematch of the scuffle, but hopefully a different result.
For those predicting PSU's demise in 2020 because Nolf and Nickal graduate and a possible Hall redshirt, do so at your own peril. It is possible that this time next year, the young guys at 125 and 133 could prove to be the real deal. Elite recruits with a year of experience (Verkleeren and Berge) are probably manning 149 and 157. Seth Nevills with a higher ceiling than Nick will be at 285. If TaTo redshirts McKenna, Pletcher and Martin for a run in 2020, he may find that 2020 is no better than 2019.
Still not convinced that TaTo does redshirt them, McKenna and Martin may want to focus on freestyle in 2020 since it is an Olympic year. Martin could redshirt in 2019 and get to face Zahid in 2020 instead of Nickal (assuming Z does not Olympic redshirt).
Still not convinced that TaTo does redshirt them, McKenna and Martin may want to focus on freestyle in 2020 since it is an Olympic year. Martin could redshirt in 2019 and get to face Zahid in 2020 instead of Nickal (assuming Z does not Olympic redshirt).
Hayes did not look undersized at 149. And I don't think you can gas from throwing a hundred head taps a match. If Jordan is going 149, I buy the idea of Hayes going to 157. I don't think he sees 141 again. Just my opinion.
Until we learn more about weight changes, it's hard to predict how 149 will play out. Sure, Lugo could finish top 3, but it's also ripe for a freshman or two to make a splash.
As for Jordan and Hayes, I don't think it matters where they wrestle. Either one is a threat to finish top 4 at 149, both will struggle to finish top 5-6 at 157.
Lets not forget that Micah got a free ride to the semis this year then went 0-3. If the brackets broke differently he might have finished off the podium. If the decision is to give him his best shot at being a champ his Sr year. then 149 make sense..
As for Jordan and Hayes, I don't think it matters where they wrestle. Either one is a threat to finish top 4 at 149, both will struggle to finish top 5-6 at 157.
Lets not forget that Micah got a free ride to the semis this year then went 0-3. If the brackets broke differently he might have finished off the podium. If the decision is to give him his best shot at being a champ his Sr year. then 149 make sense..
Good accurate post but I don't think Hayes goes any farther than R12 at best, is he's up at 57.
Some merit to this but also recall Nico shirted the same year, and while he won the title it added risk in the form of Tomasello as the defending champ.
Those two shirts were about both personal development and team strategy.
I am pretty sure he did, and won, though I think Lee was leading for most (?) of the match.
Yeah, it was close, but I remember Lee being ahead when it took a turn for the worse.
Pretty sure it was something like 7-3 with Lee on top after giving up the first takedown (Gfeller had 1 td and 1 escape for his 3). Lee had an escape and three takedowns after that and looked well on his way to a TF when he got a lot too careless trying to turn Gfeller.
You're probably right matter. My memory fails me more and more these days. Gives me a good reason to re-watch the match. Ha!
Just watched it again matter. Lee was up 5-4, then got a quick 2 count to make it 7-4 and then got a little aggressive as you said. Nick then gave up a locked hands call in a scramble and things went south. Lee wrestled well for all but 15 seconds of the match. Damn true freshman. Lol.
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