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Will / Can Ohio State Punt Next Year ?

Sportfan2017

Sportfan2017

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Jun 28, 2017
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I keep reading and hearing about how most "experts" says that Ohio State will or should red shirt Pletcher, McKenna and Martin and go for the title in 2020. I am not certain they can....or even should punt next year. Here is my logic....hopefully others can add to or correct:

First: Let us look at the Senior recruits coming into Ohio State next year along with their weight, state, FLO ranking & Track ranking:

1. Malik Heinselman..................120........Co............2---3
2. Alex Felix................................132........Ca............9---12
3. Quinn Kinner...........................138........NJ............2---1
4. Sammy Sasso........................145.......Pa............1---1
5. Jaden Mattox..........................160.......Oh.............5---4
6. Josh Ramirez..........................160.......Ia.............NR--19
7. Rocky Jordan..........................170......Oh..............4--3
8. Braeden Redlin.......................170......Tx.............12--12
9. Gavin Hoffman.........................195.....Pa..............1---1

You have to admit.....this is one amazing recruiting class. The lowest rated is Josh Ramirez who is a 4X State Champ and just won a State Championship in Iowa at 160 lbs.

Question: How much scholarship money is being tied up in these NINE recruits....all coming in next year ( presumably )? . SEVEN of the recruits are from out of state. . Hard to believe their isn't a good bit of scholarship money wrapped up in this class.

Question: If they punt their 3 star wrestlers until 2020......won't that eat up their scholarship money for another year? Also....they have the two Highly ranked Decatur brothers coming aboard in 2019-2020. I am not certain they can keep their scholarship commitments to all these commits. Even if they can...they most likely wont be able to offer any more scholarships until the 2020-2021 class. It doesn't sound like a strong plan for the future. Am I missing something here? Thanks in advance for your input
 
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Sportfan2017 said:
I keep reading and hearing about how most "experts" says that Ohio State will or should red shirt Pletcher, McKenna and Martin and go for the title in 2020. I am not certain they can....or even should punt next year. Here is my logic....hopefully others can add to or correct:

First: Let us look at the Senior recruits coming into Ohio State next year along with their weight, state, FLO ranking & Track ranking:

1. Malik Heinselman..................120........Co............2---3
2. Alex Felix................................132........Ca............9---12
3. Quinn Kinner...........................138........NJ............2---1
4. Sammy Sasso........................145.......Pa............1---1
5. Jaden Mattox..........................160.......Oh.............5---4
6. Josh Ramirez..........................160.......Ia.............NR--19
7. Rocky Jordan..........................170......Oh..............4--3
8. Braeden Redlin.......................170......Tx.............12--12
9. Gavin Hoffman.........................195.....Pa..............1---1

You have to admit.....this is one amazing recruiting class. The lowest rated is Josh Ramirez who is a 4X State Champ and just won a State Championship in Iowa at 160 lbs.

Question: How much scholarship money is being tied up in these NINE recruits....all coming in next year ( presumably )? . SEVEN of the recruits are from out of state. . Hard to believe their isn't a good bit of scholarship money wrapped up in this class.

Question: If they punt their 3 star wrestlers until 2020......won't that eat up their scholarship money for another year? Also....they have the two Highly ranked Decatur brothers coming aboard in 2019-2020. I am not certain they can keep their scholarship commitments to all these commits. Even if they can...they most likely wont be able to offer any more scholarships until the 2020-2021 class. It doesn't sound like a strong plan for the future. Am I missing something here? Thanks in advance for your input
Click to expand...

This seems to be a look down the road 2 or 3 years. Time is a wastin here and while this class looks great, who knows in two years about where everyone is at.

Let's look at where everyone is at next season, and you tell me.

125 Heinselman. He's small. Real small. His point comparison is Nato. If anyone thinks he even gets half of Nato's points, then cocaine is a hell of a drug and they need to get off of it.

133 Pletcher. Still blocked by Gross. Still blocked by Micic. And don't look now but here comes Nick Suriano, and maybe Daton Fix, and Ethan Lizak who won't be gassing, and that freak from NC State if he stays. No more gimme either against PSU if the nations' number one 33 pounder is healthy in Roman Bravo Young. It's loaded to the gills

141 McKenna. Still blocked by Yianni. They are hoping Yianni moves up, but careful what you wish for because...

..149 Micah, who isn't beating Yianni. And a whole new bunch of guys coming up or going down because of the NO Zain national holiday for the first time in 3 years. Also, this will make Hayes fairly unhappy. Thought he gassed before? Wait until he goes down, which he can't anyway because of Joey. Move him up? Ok, good idea. Hidlay, Kem dog, Jason, Pantaleo, and a whole bunch of other fellas will be there to say hello. Take Sasso's shirt off? Good luck Sammy, all of these guys have 3 plus years in college weight rooms and guile on the mat, gonna have to fight to find the back part of that podium.

165 Campbell. Muscular dude who looks like a good bodybuilder. No points for body building though on the wrestling mat, as has been shown his entire career. And next year 165 is still loaded, only Imar missing.

174 Romero. Real good, and the real deal. He's going to be ok. Until he runs into Hall, or Amine, or Zahid if he stays, or that freaky long kid at Wisconsin who can wrap him up like a pretzel. The Bull is up there too maybe.

184 Mymar. If you were told that you could either redshirt and win a national championship, or be seeded third behind two guys who you know you cannot beat. Ever. Again. What do you do? Take one for Team Tan? Really?

197 Moore. Who will once again be gassing, and gassing, and pulling, and pulling, and struggling, because he's not a 197 pounder, he's a 230 pound heavyweight that his coach is insisting wrestle at 197.

Hwy Singletary. Not even worth discussing because his points won't even be a third of Snyders' and nobody else in that room can beat him other than Moore.

So, Move Moore to heavy? You got a hole. Move Micah to 49? You got a hole. Move Campbell up? You got a hole. The above is your "dream team" for 2019, and congratulations on your third place finish, about 5 points behind Iowa. OR, Punt, wait for NN, Nolf, and Nickal to leave, maybe Cael throws you a bone by accident like when he shirted Nico and Zain, and voila! You have a bona fide actual chance in 2020.

There, I think that covers most of it, with obviously some arguable points, but in no parallel universe is he winning anything in Pittsburgh other than atta boys and bridesmaid battles. At least head to Aruba next March with some optimism.
 
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I guess I should be more clear. My main point was that Ohio State has a LOT of recruits coming in this year that ....based on their abilities and where they come from....would appear to take up a lot of scholarship money. My question is that if they red shirt 3 stars who are probably getting a good chunk of money.....that would appear to me that that scholarship money won't be coming off the books and available to give to others for two more years. Can they even make that work? And if they can make that work......won't it cripple their ability to offer any more scholarships next year since the 3 red shirts scholarship money won't come available until the summer of 2020? Am I correct on that assumption?
 
Notsofastmyfriend21 said:
141 McKenna. Still blocked by Yianni. They are hoping Yianni moves up, but careful what you wish for because...
Click to expand...

FWIW, Yianni said in an interview yesterday that he expects to stay at 141. Said he walks around ~10 lbs over but easily makes weight at 141. Coupled with his lack of height, he said his body type doesn’t make going up to 149 a great option.
 
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PSUbluTX said:
FWIW, Yianni said in an interview yesterday that he expects to stay at 141. Said he walks around ~10 lbs over but easily makes weight at 141. Coupled with his lack of height, he said his body type doesn’t make going up to 149 a great option.
Click to expand...

So Joey is blocked. The move down then has a legit shot at top 3, and an outside chance at a title. Seems to make sense then, in terms of what is good for Micah. It also creates a hole at 157. Decision #1 for Tan Tom is on the way...
 
Sportfan2017 said:
I guess I should be more clear. My main point was that Ohio State has a LOT of recruits coming in this year that ....based on their abilities and where they come from....would appear to take up a lot of scholarship money. My question is that if they red shirt 3 stars who are probably getting a good chunk of money.....that would appear to me that that scholarship money won't be coming off the books and available to give to others for two more years. Can they even make that work? And if they can make that work......won't it cripple their ability to offer any more scholarships next year since the 3 red shirts scholarship money won't come available until the summer of 2020? Am I correct on that assumption?
Click to expand...
There is always a lot of speculation when it comes to scholarship money. No one knows for certain who gets what unless you’re on HR.
 
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Sportfan2017 said:
I keep reading and hearing about how most "experts" says that Ohio State will or should red shirt Pletcher, McKenna and Martin and go for the title in 2020. I am not certain they can....or even should punt next year. Here is my logic....hopefully others can add to or correct:

First: Let us look at the Senior recruits coming into Ohio State next year along with their weight, state, FLO ranking & Track ranking:

1. Malik Heinselman..................120........Co............2---3
2. Alex Felix................................132........Ca............9---12
3. Quinn Kinner...........................138........NJ............2---1
4. Sammy Sasso........................145.......Pa............1---1
5. Jaden Mattox..........................160.......Oh.............5---4
6. Josh Ramirez..........................160.......Ia.............NR--19
7. Rocky Jordan..........................170......Oh..............4--3
8. Braeden Redlin.......................170......Tx.............12--12
9. Gavin Hoffman.........................195.....Pa..............1---1

You have to admit.....this is one amazing recruiting class. The lowest rated is Josh Ramirez who is a 4X State Champ and just won a State Championship in Iowa at 160 lbs.

Question: How much scholarship money is being tied up in these NINE recruits....all coming in next year ( presumably )? . SEVEN of the recruits are from out of state. . Hard to believe their isn't a good bit of scholarship money wrapped up in this class.

Question: If they punt their 3 star wrestlers until 2020......won't that eat up their scholarship money for another year? Also....they have the two Highly ranked Decatur brothers coming aboard in 2019-2020. I am not certain they can keep their scholarship commitments to all these commits. Even if they can...they most likely wont be able to offer any more scholarships until the 2020-2021 class. It doesn't sound like a strong plan for the future. Am I missing something here? Thanks in advance for your input
Click to expand...

McKenna and MyMar may have Olympic aspirations and may not want to RS next year. Lots of cipherin' to be done by Tan Tom.
 
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ptomaselli said:
McKenna and MyMar may have Olympic aspirations and may not want to RS next year. Lots of cipherin' to be done by Tan Tom.
Click to expand...
Great point, also as the OP stated, they only have 9.9 scholarships to play with. I do believe tOSU is more generous with academic money than PSU is, that could possibly help.
 
psualt said:
There is always a lot of speculation when it comes to scholarship money. No one knows for certain who gets what unless you’re on HR.
Click to expand...

yep, the bean counters there have it down to a "Weird" science.

Dont @ me CID, this is largest complaint on the HR.
 
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Ohio State is going to have a lot of fringe AA this upcoming year if they keep their team intact. They could be like Missouri or Ok State this year 10 good wrestlers but not semi finalists or champs. I think MyMar and Mckenna should redshirt.
 
cidhawkeye said:
Hmmm...staying above the fray I see.
Click to expand...
Another hall monitor. PSU trolls over on HR no doubt. Between them and the Carl/Bael/Cheating threads, I don't go there. Therefore I don't appreciate Iowa hall monitors over here. Haven't missed the first one I put on ignore. C-ya.
 
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It will take a lot to convince Ryan to punt. In 2016 he probably should have kept MyMar and Snyder on RS, but he couldn't resist taking an outside shot at winning 2 in a row.

At the end of the year the Bucks finished a distant 3rd at both the Big 10s and NCAAs.
 
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Nice class but no help next year. Red shirt them all. Their guys cut too much. Not impressed with return team other than McKenna and Martin. Heard chatter of a 125 transfer. The comparison to the 2018 Okie St team is appropriate.
 
Everyone now wants to solve issues with magical McKenna transfers, but honestly, I think that was a "one-off" in nearly every aspect. Somehow the kid wanted to forgo a Stanford degree, which I think is unprecedented. Also, this was the 5th ranked wrester at best at Stanford who then came in at Ohio State and shot up, outwrestled anything he previously did, and maxed out in points for them. By way of comparison, their other transfer, did worse than he had done at Pitt, and scored the exact same number of points as he did the previous two years. Most transfers do what they previously did, plus or minus a small number. Getting a 3rd place podium transfer like McKenna, is really a perfect storm of luck, and now everyone thinks this is the rule and not the exception.

We pulled in two transfers last year and both young men gave everything they had and we love them for it. Points-wise, what they ended up with, is the normal situation, not the perfect-storm of McKenna.
 
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OSU Definitely should punt next year. The will be heavy favorites in 2020 if they do. If they don't, they're going to waste 2019 and not really have much of a shot at the title.
 
Notsofastmyfriend21 said:
Everyone now wants to solve issues with magical McKenna transfers, but honestly, I think that was a "one-off" in nearly every aspect. Somehow the kid wanted to forgo a Stanford degree, which I think is unprecedented. Also, this was the 5th ranked wrester at best at Stanford who then came in at Ohio State and shot up, outwrestled anything he previously did, and maxed out in points for them. By way of comparison, their other transfer, did worse than he had done at Pitt, and scored the exact same number of points as he did the previous two years. Most transfers do what they previously did, plus or minus a small number. Getting a 3rd place podium transfer like McKenna, is really a perfect storm of luck, and now everyone thinks this is the rule and not the exception.

We pulled in two transfers last year and both young men gave everything they had and we love them for it. Points-wise, what they ended up with, is the normal situation, not the perfect-storm of McKenna.
Click to expand...
Keep in mind McKenna was 3rd as a true freshmen, bad tournament in 2017...excellent wrestler.
 
Notsofastmyfriend21 said:
Everyone now wants to solve issues with magical McKenna transfers, but honestly, I think that was a "one-off" in nearly every aspect. Somehow the kid wanted to forgo a Stanford degree, which I think is unprecedented. Also, this was the 5th ranked wrester at best at Stanford who then came in at Ohio State and shot up, outwrestled anything he previously did, and maxed out in points for them. By way of comparison, their other transfer, did worse than he had done at Pitt, and scored the exact same number of points as he did the previous two years. Most transfers do what they previously did, plus or minus a small number. Getting a 3rd place podium transfer like McKenna, is really a perfect storm of luck, and now everyone thinks this is the rule and not the exception.

We pulled in two transfers last year and both young men gave everything they had and we love them for it. Points-wise, what they ended up with, is the normal situation, not the perfect-storm of McKenna.
Click to expand...
McKenna placed 3rd in 2016, so he didn't outwrestle anything he previously did, and he wasn't the 5th guy at Stanford.
 
I wonder what Myles would think of redshirting next year? I would think that he'd want one more shot at Bo and next year would be his last chance for that.

On the other hand, the following year Bo would be gone and he would have a better chance at a title. Of course Zahid may be there as well.
 
Romero to 165 and they are moving Campbell up to 174. From their insider, and I can't recall the name but sure that many others know of him. Looks like Tan Tom is all in again?.
 
El-Jefe said:
McKenna placed 3rd in 2016, so he didn't outwrestle anything he previously did, and he wasn't the 5th guy at Stanford.
Click to expand...

He wasn't ranked 5th in the nation while at Stanford? That's what I meant. Perhaps he was 3rd then. Either way, an excellent wrestler and last year I have to think was rather unusual with a 3rd ranked, and 2nd ranked wrestler transferring in the same season.
 
y2jriden said:
I wonder what Myles would think of redshirting next year? I would think that he'd want one more shot at Bo and next year would be his last chance for that.

On the other hand, the following year Bo would be gone and he would have a better chance at a title. Of course Zahid may be there as well.
Click to expand...
he is 2-7 against Bo--I dont think he wants another shot
 
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Notsofastmyfriend21 said:
He wasn't ranked 5th in the nation while at Stanford? That's what I meant. Perhaps he was 3rd then. Either way, an excellent wrestler and last year I have to think was rather unusual with a 3rd ranked, and 2nd ranked wrestler transferring in the same season.
Click to expand...

McKenna was the #2 seed in 2016 when he finished 3rd, #3 seed in 2017 when he DNP and #4 seed this year when he finished 3rd again. Excellent wrestler who had a bad tournament in 2017. I expect he will finish high again last year but if Yianni is healthy I don't see him beating him.
 
I suppose their thoughts are that Campbell can do better at 174? Interesting. How will Romero fit into the picture at 165 then? All reports are, he is a great wrestler, but the weight class features at least 4 or 5 other great wrestlers.
 
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tabenn said:
and Campbell will have nothing for Hall
Click to expand...

On the wrestling mat? No. I can't imagine him having anything for anyone else in the top 8 at that weight either. Ohio State continues to amaze me at how they contort their lineup in the never ending pursuit of a team they consistently finish 2nd to. LOL.
 
Notsofastmyfriend21 said:
On the wrestling mat? No. I can't imagine him having anything for anyone else in the top 8 at that weight either. Ohio State continues to amaze me at how they contort their lineup in the never ending pursuit of a team they consistently finish 2nd to. LOL.
Click to expand...
Tom Ryan gave an interview at the beginning of this past season. He stated the Jordan up to 157 and Hayes at 149 because the matches up against PSU was much much better---well not so much..
a lot of talk of Tom RS all his studs this coming season to make a solid run the following year---the problem with that is 1) PSU will reload 2) the PSU Frosh that come aboard next season will have 1 whole year in that room--I think Tom will have to settle for 2nd for a few years yet.

I will give credit Tom is an excellent recruiter--- Cael is just better
 
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Revision #1(probably a few more to come)

125 Heinselman
133 Pletcher
141 McKenna
149 Jordan
157 ?
165 Romero
174 Campbell
184 Martin
197 Moore
Hwt Singletary

2nd place, at best.
 
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Notsofastmyfriend21 said:
Everyone now wants to solve issues with magical McKenna transfers, but honestly, I think that was a "one-off" in nearly every aspect. Somehow the kid wanted to forgo a Stanford degree, which I think is unprecedented. Also, this was the 5th ranked wrester at best at Stanford who then came in at Ohio State and shot up, outwrestled anything he previously did, and maxed out in points for them. By way of comparison, their other transfer, did worse than he had done at Pitt, and scored the exact same number of points as he did the previous two years. Most transfers do what they previously did, plus or minus a small number. Getting a 3rd place podium transfer like McKenna, is really a perfect storm of luck, and now everyone thinks this is the rule and not the exception.

We pulled in two transfers last year and both young men gave everything they had and we love them for it. Points-wise, what they ended up with, is the normal situation, not the perfect-storm of McKenna.
Click to expand...

We got Andrew Long as a transfer which propelled us to our first National Championship. I think the "perfect storm" is overstating the likelihood of success of talented transfers.
 
WPB_lion said:
We got Andrew Long as a transfer which propelled us to our first National Championship. I think the "perfect storm" is overstating the likelihood of success of talented transfers.
Click to expand...
Perhaps. I don't have the data. This year I know of two transfers who finished in the top 3 out of 30 top 3 finishers. Perhaps in other years there have been more, and perhaps less. Ohio State put together a fantastic lineup last year that finished with the 15th most points in the history of the tournament. Their best team ever. Two of those were transfers and another moved down a weight in his senior year. Pick your own term if you like.
 
RoarLions1 said:
Regardless what the Buckeyes do next year, they're here to stay. I am impressed by their recruiting, the building of new facilities, etc. Great rivalry, really excited about the future.
Click to expand...

yes, for sure

in a sense, we lucked-out that tOSU is our wrestling rivalry so we have this dual each year. (wish there were two protected rivalry match-ups though. (Iowa) )
 
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PSU Yinzer said:
yes, for sure

in a sense, we lucked-out that tOSU is our wrestling rivalry so we have this dual each year. (wish there were two protected rivalry match-ups though. (Iowa) )
Click to expand...
Well, there used to be two protected rivalry matchups between when Nebraska joined and when Maryland and Rutgers joined. Alas, the second one was Michigan State.
 
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